Jump to content
  • entries
    610
  • comments
    1,306
  • views
    415,651

Let's Talk About That Whole Black Widow Thing


Ta-metru_defender

689 views

Essays, Not Rants! 164: Let’s Talk About That Whole Black Widow Thing

 

People are mad on the internet. As usual. The hubbub recently, though, is about choices made regarding Black Widow in Age of Ultron. Now, I’m a big fan of Black Widow. I’d really like her to get her own movie and Nathan Edmonson’s run on the comics has been fantastic (issue #13 is framed on my wall). And I’ll be the first to admit that a character beat in Age of Ultron did throw me off for a bit. But I didn’t realize the furor until I started reading up on it.

 

Mild spoilers for the film from here on out.

 

Most all of it seems to boil down to one particular piece of characterization: In a quiet moment, Natasha reveals to Bruce —who she’s debating entering into a relationship with — that she was forcibly sterilized and she laments being unable to have a normal life. It’s clear what there is to take issue with: The one female Avenger is preoccupied with romance, babies and the lack thereof. It doesn’t matter how awesome Black Widow is, Natasha’s life is still incomplete without a man and children. Hence the death threats against writer/director Joss Whedon.

 

The beat did get a knee jerk reaction from me, but it made sense enough given her characterization. Natasha’s something of a reformed assassin and her past missions haunt her (as we see in her interactions with Loki in Avengers). Along with that, she’s never had a proper childhood, let alone any semblance of a normal life. We also see that she’s good with Clint’s kids and close enough to the family for the kids to call her aunt. Her attraction to Bruce makes sense, then: Both are damaged people who are trying to atone for their own inner monster. We can also see in it her desire for normalcy (and with it, motherhood). This all makes Natasha a very complex character. She’s torn between the normal life she could never have and atoning as an Avenger. There’s tragedy there too; while Thor enjoys the thrill of the fight, Natasha’s ultimate fantasy is a normal life. She’s forced to make a choice by the end of the movie: continue fighting or run off to find a sort of normal life.

 

It’s a shame that all of that gets forgotten in light of her grief about being unable to have kids. I’ve seen some people defend the scene by saying that what really was affecting her was that she was denied the choice of being able to have kids — she was denied her agency. Whether or not that’s the case, I don’t think her wanting kids necessarily diminishes her character. If anything, it added the depth detailed in the prior paragraph. There’s a beautiful dichotomy to the cold-blooded assassin wishing she could have a family.

 

So why the controversy? Are strong female characters not allowed to want families too? It seems male characters are — no one’s complaining about Clint Barton having a wife and kids (except those of us who wanted a Hawkeye Netflix series about him in Bed-Stuy like in Matt Fraction’s comics). Even though his personal life could easily be described as traditionally masculine — what with the farm, wife and kids and, always fixing stuff around the house — he doesn’t get any flak for it.

 

Ultimately, the issue is that it’s the one female Avenger. Since she’s the only one, she’s going to come under closer scrutiny. There are a host of narratives for the male Avengers, meaning that Clint could have his farm and Bruce be hesitant towards action without undercutting The Manliness as we had characters like Thor and Steve (that and, y’know, 70% of movie characters being men). Criticism is inevitable no matter how unfounded if the only female Avenger’s narrative contains shades patriarchal femininity. We need more good stories about strong women so we can have different sorts of strong women. Give us stories about moms, scientists, and fighter pilots saving the world. Black Widow can’t be the only female superhero.

 

Which is why we need Captain Marvel next year and not in 2018.

  • Upvote 7

7 Comments


Recommended Comments

The biggest problem was summed up in that moment, but that moment isn't the entire problem. Black Widow is written as the "mom" of the group ("I'm always picking up after you boys" and all the creepy "lullaby" stuff). The problem isn't that she's expressing that she's a monster by showcasing that she was sterilized (and the movie tries to make the sterilization a sign of her past, and the past is why she's a monster, but it's awkwardly cut and I don't blame anyone for seeing the dialogue as referring to the sterilization as what makes her a monster), but that her entire arc in the film seems to culminate in her and motherhood. She gets in good action moments, and some great zingers, but her character is just so... well, sterilized. All of that seedy and interesting past, but she gets to have redemption by being the Hulk's mom. It's just so weird.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment

I've seen more people upset about the wording of the scene; after telling Banner she can't have kids, she says something along the lines of "still think you're the only monster here?". It's making it sound like she's directly equating being infertile to being a monster. I just came back from my second viewing (IMAX 3D is beautiful btw) and I was specifically listening to see if she was just referring to the part where the infertility makes the whole assassin/murderer life easier and I'm still pretty divided on it. It definitely could have been worded better and it definitely comes across very, very badly.

"We're the real monsters" is a very clear (almost anvilicious) running theme throughout the team, with Bruce being the most obvious and Stark and Rogers also reflecting on this with their own issues with warmongering and whatnot, so when Natasha's monster scene came around its intersection with the very sudden motherhood revelation does not help matters at all.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment

@DV: Yeah, I didn't catch the team-mom thing the first go through (took the picking up line to be tongue in cheek), and I saw the lullaby as less motherly and more comforter? I dunno. In retrospect (that is discussing it with a friend and writing this post) I take her arc to be the divide between adventure/normal wherein she chooses at the end being an Avenger over running off. I do wish they got into her backstory more, though; does feel a bit like a missed oppurtunity.

 

@Pomegranate: Some of the editing was really choppy, though I can't remember if that scene was one of the ones I noted. Maybe the mythical three hour cut's better.

Link to comment

I'm not a fan of Marvel, nor did I actually see the film, but I did a bit of digging after hearing about this incident too. I think people saw the issue as a personal quality of feminism (Why can't a woman be strong and still want a family? Feminism is about choice) while missing the social and economic standpoints of the issue.

 

From my understanding, Black Widow's character was painted in a... less than flattering light on Conan, to put it lightly.

 

Rumor also has it that Black Widow has fewer action figures and toys produced when compared to the other Avengers in their toy line. I don't have exact numbers on that, though, because I'm not sure where to find a reliable source or census for that. (I admittedly didn't do a whole lot of digging on this because I'm arguably not too attached to the subject).

 

While I don't think it's my place as a man to say what is and isn't offensive to women on a personal level; when an incident like this comes up and evidence points to inequality, I can't exactly say people are angry over nothing. I don't agree with death threats by any means, and angry internet people aren't making this easy to communicate.

 

I've also heard the argument that Black Widow wanting a family is out of character for how she is portrayed in the comic books, but movies tend to bend the rules with the transition from graphic novel to movie for various aspects, so that didn't strike me as too odd, personally.

Link to comment

I'm going to have to see the film before I can make a call on this. 

 

But seriously, we're talking about the franchise that started with a reporter being treated like arm candy, and with a starring character who was a complete womanizer. Asking for feminism from it is a bit too much to ask. 

 

This is the series with Black Widow's chest baring outfit, the one where she made out with Steve Rogers. The one where she busted into the evil villain lair only to find him gone, and the guys had to finish the job. That scene where Pepper Potts had to be rescued.

 

Now I could argue that Pepper set off the arc reactor and got Obediah Stain's files, but the context showed that she was scared and had to be convinced. And she still ended up in bed with that guy in the end.

 

Guardians could be considered an exception, and that one scene with Widow and the chair, and maybe Extermis!Pepper, but I'd say that there's enough female objectifying in Marvel to make this comment just another set of the same. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment

(Why can't a woman be strong and still want a family? Feminism is about choice)

Absolutely one hundred percent agreed, and which is why you'll see a good number of staunch feminists on this site defend the LEGO Friends sets to death (myself included). The problem with the portrayal in AoU is that it seems to (accidentally?) imply that being a woman and not being able to have children makes Natasha a monster. That being stripped of the "most womanly aspiration" (as it has long been seen as) makes Natasha makes her less than human. It sort of implies that motherhood is the defining trait of a woman's humanity. That's where the ire stands. I'm in the camp that thinks the line is mostly misunderstood, but I am also in the camp that thinks her overall portrayal is problematic, and that Joss Whedon's feminism is basically an all-talk advertisement for his personal branding that he actually falls consciously and systematically short on.

 

@DV: Yeah, I didn't catch the team-mom thing the first go through (took the picking up line to be tongue in cheek), and I saw the lullaby as less motherly and more comforter?

I mean, lullabies are inherently parental, regardless of who else sings them. We see them as a signifier of the protective, parental/guardian figure. It's just how culture has shaped that term and its use. Combined with all of the "I can't have kids either" and "I was sterilized" stuff, it seems Whedon was trying to draw a parallel that her relationship with Banner was actually her trying to fulfill all the missing "normal" places in her life, with the Hulk as her surrogate child (which just complicates the whole thing in a really... awkward way.) There are a ton of criticisms on this out there right now.

 

In general though, I'm also in the camp that says "even if I swear I understand how this wasn't supposed to be problematic or offensive, if a large group of people from the oppressed group all feel it was problematic and oppressive... it probably was."

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment

I've also heard the argument that Black Widow wanting a family is out of character for how she is portrayed in the comic books, but movies tend to bend the rules with the transition from graphic novel to movie for various aspects, so that didn't strike me as too odd, personally.

Yes, but no. She keeps a lot of her comic's characterization (independent, an atoner, deadly) while giving a different depth. Hawkeye's remains similar, but has a vastly different back story. Tony too has different shades of his personality also altered somewhat, with his alcoholism (which, depending on the writer, can be a key character trait) swept under the rug. 

 

 

@DV: Right, the whole monster thing. It does get murky between the line of context and intent, but then, I don't know. I took it to be in relation to her past (and my knee jerk reaction being to the whole kids thing). And fair, that's not even touching the oedipality of the Hulk thing, but, then, I saw it as a beauty/beast sort thing. And looking back I still can't help but love the idea of a born fighter wanting to run away.

 

So I could always have been watching the movie wrong.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Guest
Add a comment...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...