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BZPower Comics Culture


believe victims

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Let's start this off simply: I have been a member of the BZPower comics community since December of 2007, or almost seven years now. I've been involved in this community for longer than Dark709 at this point (as he started making comics in 2004, and left the site in '09-'10). As such, I'd like to think I've learned a lot about the interesting sort of culture that has formed there for practically a decade now.

 

If I had to describe it, and if I weren't prone to theatrics at the time, I'd describe it as "stagnant". (If I were prone to theatrics, it would be "diseased".)

 

BZPower comics have been at a complete standstill as far as innovation in comics goes. Well, not a complete standstill, but more on that later. Humorous comics are bound to all be bound by a single thread: a studio-based comic with an author avatar main character. I don't know who started the trend, but I know who popularized it the most, and that's Dark709. He was so singularly influential in the late 2000s comic making scene that, if I had to hazard a guess, 95% of comics were studio comics, and 80% used Chimoru Omega. And nobody ever expanded upon the idea, or took in a new direction. It was always played out the same. The author avatar was either cool-headed or completely crazy if the situation demanded it, some character had a stupid food obsession, some villain wanted to take over the comics (though as time dragged on that became less common), etc. In terms of story, I'd say we haven't seen much innovation since, say, 2008.

 

There were exceptions, of course. The apocryphal "the Group" made several original comics, including the legendary Generic Quest. Of course, the comics forum was already pretty set in its ways by the time comics like that started forming, and what that meant was, instead of promoting diversity the forum, a new sect of derivative comics cropped up: the photorealistic, heavily detailed kind, and the rigorous MAS adventures. The former I'll touch up on in a bit, but the latter was interesting, because what usually happened was they flopped terribly. I don't even remember if Generic Quest itself ended, but its generic brand products usually fizzled out after a couple author cycles at most. Nobody had the motivation, the organization, or the conviction to pull it off, but nobody learned, either. They just kept popping up until the forum itself started to lose momentum following the downtime.

 

Both the points I've said I'd touch upon are, in fact, the same point: photorealism/attention to detail. "The Group" and other comic makers like Nuparurocks, whose skills in image editing programs were far above those of most other people, started a veritable arms race for high-quality graphics in comics. I had forgotten about this bit of culture until recently, when I checked out a comic series at random, and found that they had gone as far as to put reflections on hardwood floors, shadows beneath the characters, and even kept the sheath of a katana on-screen after it had been discarded. All of this, and yet one thing was still missing: humor. In all the years of battling for graphic supremacy, no one had changed the formula for actually coming up with jokes. Your average BZPower comic still spouts "jokes" that have been used since I started making comics, if it has what could be called a joke to begin with. Often humor is derived from poorly-conveyed slapstick or Tim Buckley-esque blocks of text to lead up to some inane joke. Rarely have I seen people improve so much, yet so little at the same time.

 

Remember, a part of this is that I was in this. For the longest time, I made studio comics where my mediocre author avatar lorded over a cast of cardboard cutouts as I injected my terrible sense of humor into it. The only reason I don't anymore was that I broke free. I did something the Comics forum desperately needed, and innovated with my still-slightly-derivative series, BIONICLES ADVENTURS COMIXS.

 

The backlash was terrible, and continues to be. People still say I don't take the business seriously because I tried a comic the forum had never seen before, the ironically terrible. Any time I enter a site-wide contest, I'm met with harsh, passive-aggressive comments, suggesting I shouldn't have bothered, or that my entry is a joke (ironic, for the comics section). It was rough at first, true; the early comics are my most regrettable. But if I had quit and gone back to studio comics, I would have been all the worse off. Instead, I forged ahead, and some friends joined with me in making comics unlike anything this forum had seen before.*

 

BAC isn't a pinnacle of perfection, and I don't want this to come across as blowing my own saxophone. In fact, when people make new comics that try to fit the same niche, it's disappointing to me. I don't want to start a niche of comics, and BAC is really the sort of thing you can only pull off once. I want everyone to question why you make studio comics, why you use the sprites you use, or even use sprites at all, and what is truly the meaning of making visual entertainment. I managed to break away from making the same, dull comics for the rest of my BZP career, and I encourage anyone with the strength and inspiration to try something new to do so.

 

(This whole rant aside, I can think of a couple other comic series that have innovated recently, and I'd be remiss in omitting them. Rahkshi Lalonde's A Grim Development appears to be trying to break into the horror genre, and I am interested in seeing where that story goes. Kakaru's Studio Comic, despite its name, is finally breathing some new life into the genre, with a unique art style and sense of humor.)

 

*Okay, this isn't technically true. I can think of at least one other series before BAC that tried to break into the ironically awful gig, but it was pretty much straight-up sbahj jokes transplanted in a Bionicle setting, whereas BAC has started finding its own identity

 

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Apologies if this seems incoherent. This isn't so much an orgnaized essay as much as it is a stream of consciousness thing, an outpouring of my thoughts on different things about the forum, from an inside perspective. I hope this is an interesting look at a small part of the strange subculture of BZP comics.

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I hope my comment in the comics poll for the ongoing Ninjago comic wasn't seen as one of those harsh or passive-aggressive comments. I didn't really find any of the comics in that poll funny (just being honest here), but as I said, I'm sure there are people who do, and I'm glad you're at least trying to shake up the stagnation of the BZPower comics forum.

 

I barely ever ventured into the comics forum back in the day unless I saw a funny-looking link in somebody's sig, and nowadays I pretty much never go there. But I would love for more comic writers and artists here to experiment with new formats and give me a reason to visit there again.

 

I really love a lot of the My Little Pony fan comics I see shared on sites like Equestria Daily, and I wish there were more comics like that within this community — comics with real care put into crafting not just the visuals but also the stories. They don't even have to be ongoing storylines with running jokes and the like — even one-shot comics like you see in the Sunday funnies can be fun and exciting, often more so than a comic that has a particular joke that it keeps returning to.

 

And "care put into the visuals" doesn't have to mean photorealism or mimicking some "official" style — there are plenty of great webcomics like "Hyperbole and a Half", "XKCD", and "Hark! A Vagrant" that all embrace a sketchy, informal style but are still able to keep a consistent visual language. These are all types of comics that keep me coming back and reading more, much more effectively than formulaic sprite comics.

 

Anyway, sorry for rambling. I hope you aren't upset by me not liking your Ninjago comic. I can tell it's the sort of thing some people might find funny. Maybe on a different day I could even curtail my own expectations and really find enjoyment that kind of humor. But for the most part it just doesn't appeal to me.

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I admittedly don't follow the comics forum, but I do look at the polls of contests, and I think this is the first time I've seen anyone call BAC ironically terrible. In all cases that I can recall people who were fans of it seemed to not acknowledge that, and often outright denied it.

 

Anyway, to be honest I don't really care for any comics on BZP. I think being hand-drawn is an important, almost essential quality and its incredible lack is a major part of why I don't read comics here.

 

~B~

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Interesting opinion.  I made one of those studio comics waaaay back when (early to mid 00's) and after that flopped I kinda left the comic part of this site, so I don't know what's been going on since. 

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I will never fault someone for not finding my style of comics funny, only for implying that because they don't, no one should, or that it's not a valid style of humor. People who shame me for making comics that look terrible on purpose instead of joining the Photoshop arms race are some of the worst.
 
I realize care into visuals doesn't translate to photorealism, and that wasn't the point of the paragraph. In fact, I'd say the point was pretty much what you said, except worded much differently; people became obsessed with the wrong things with making comics, trying to make photorealistic comics while forgetting what truly makes a comic enjoyable.
 
As I said, I'm speakign from experience in the forum here. The photorealism trend was real, and it affected more than 50% of the comic authors. And it definitely didn't always translate into better-looking comics.
 

I admittedly don't follow the comics forum, but I do look at the polls of contests, and I think this is the first time I've seen anyone call BAC ironically terrible. In all cases that I can recall people who were fans of it seemed to not acknowledge that, and often outright denied it.

Anyway, to be honest I don't really care for any comics on BZP. I think being hand-drawn is an important, almost essential quality and its incredible lack is a major part of why I don't read comics here.

~B~


I know most of the people who make those comments; they know it's ironically terrible. They're continuing the joke by insisting it's a masterpiece. It's why I even use the term masterpiece; it's ironic, because it is truly awful. (Yet, on a deeper level, perhaps masterfully so.)

 

I don't think being handdrawn is essential, and I've seen sprite comics that were excellent. I've often been somewhat miffed by people implying only hand-drawn comics could be good, so much so that ages ago I made a terrible hand-drawn comic in response to one. That being said, a majority of the comics forum continues to be terrible at using sprites.

 

(Also, for what it's worth, BAC is almost entirely hand drawn. I bought a $200+ drawing tablet and have almost only ever touched it to make BAC :P)

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To be completely honest, I never liked BAC or found it even remotely funny(being ironically terrible is still being terrible imo). I also never was big into BZP comics because of the sprites as I prefer hand drawn comics myself (but if someone wants to use sprites they can go right ahead). But you are right about the stagnation in the comics forum. I think it is because the studio comic is really easy to do and it doesn't involve taking a "big" risk. Studio comics also have a built in audience so you're promised some replies. This is probably going be incoherent but just know I think you're right about the comics forum.

 

As Grim Development, I feel the opening could be done better. Also I'm afraid it'll end up as another zombie story filled with the usual cliches. But it is still in its first chapter so who knows, at least it's different. 

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To be completely honest, I never liked BAC or found it even remotely funny(being ironically terrible is still being terrible imo).

 

Yes, people with strong opinions on that front never cease to remind me of this opinion. Some even went as far as to harass me off site for it. That was an experience.

 

I know the person who makes Grim Development. I don't know all the details, but I think I know enough to know it's not going to be cliche'd zombie story.

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I've always thought that the main issue in Comics is a general holier-than-thou attitude, and you totally hit the nail on the head. I don't think it's bad as it was - it's not as bad as when I began assisting in that forum, to be honest - but the few actually innovative comics still seem to get backlash because they're different.
 
Gavla's Comics were quite innovative in some regards - author-inserts aside, it had a compelling dramatic narrative with not nearly as much emphasis on the comedy. I was sad when it ended not just because it was the end of a series from one of the last really good sprite-comic artists (a rare breed of which there have been scant few), but because it seriously hurt forum activity.
 
Here's hoping that the reboot of BIONICLE will change the forum for the better.

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Well, if nothing else, I can't think of any big name studio comic artists who still make comics. Maybe new fans will start something unique instead of trying to fill someone else's shoes, like so many of us did.

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To be completely honest, I never liked BAC or found it even remotely funny(being ironically terrible is still being terrible imo).

 

Yes, people with strong opinions on that front never cease to remind me of this opinion. Some even went as far as to harass me off site for it. That was an experience.

 

I know the person who makes Grim Development. I don't know all the details, but I think I know enough to know it's not going to be cliche'd zombie story.

 

Eh... if I'm "ironically" supporting a terrible person I'm still supporting a terrible person is the way I see it. But that's just me, BAC was never my cup of tea.

 

While that is reassuring, I really wish it didn't go the zombie route for horror. Zombies are becoming tired at this point. But Like I said we'll have to wait and see.

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Thanks for linking those comics! They do seem pretty interesting and the fact that they're drawn is appealing. I pretty much never look into the comics section anymore, so I've probably been missing even some good stuff.

 

I haven't ever really read many comics here; I remember in my younger days I read a couple of parody-retellings of Bionicle, which were nice (but I was like 12 at the time so who knows maybe they weren't) I'm honestly a bit surprised that comics like those aren't more common. Anyway,

 

But after that most comics I encountered and tried out seemed somewhat repetitive and, although good visually, I can't remember any of them  distinctly, probably as a result of the effect sprites have when used in such great quantity. Shrug. That entire argument has been done to death, but I still think drawn comics are better. At the least, one could use sprites of their own making in any sort of style (like MSPA, for instance)  Something, anything to give a comic something that identifies it with you visually, is a good thing. The fact that it's missing from so many series is probably why the entire comics forum seems so nebulous to me.

 

Another thing that has struck me over the years, even with what little exposure to the comics section I've had, is it appears to be its own microcosm within the larger BZP sphere. Of course this is present everywhere (rpg players, bloggers, librarians (sic), etc all have their own cliques) but quite a bit of humor in some comics seems to be specific in-jokes that only those in the comic community get, which can also be rather off-putting. (especially when they're entered in contests and such)

 

Egh, much rambling here.

 

But yeah, it would be nice to see more innovative works. Despite my dumb snark in that other entry, I do love what has been done with BAC, and I would hope more people would do drastically different things from the norm. It's fun.

 

Of course, as a person with some slight capability in the artses, I could also try to do something comic-wise myself. Maybe one of these days I'll finally seriously pursue that Homestuck-inspired Bionicle/Hero Factory crossover nonsense I've been throwing around in my brain since 2012. I've been giving it a lot of thought lately, what with Bionicle's return and HF's end in the horizon....shrug. But then of course it'd still be pretty darn derivative. But we all start somewhere, I suppose.

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To be completely honest, I never liked BAC or found it even remotely funny(being ironically terrible is still being terrible imo).

 

Yes, people with strong opinions on that front never cease to remind me of this opinion. Some even went as far as to harass me off site for it. That was an experience.

 

I know the person who makes Grim Development. I don't know all the details, but I think I know enough to know it's not going to be cliche'd zombie story.

 

Eh... if I'm "ironically" supporting a terrible person I'm still supporting a terrible person is the way I see it. But that's just me, BAC was never my cup of tea.

 

The crux of that argument is that supporting a comic that finds humor in being intentionally bad is the same as supporting a morally abhorrent person, which seems like flawed logic to me. I'm not saying you need to find BAC funny, but your defense of your position is a little odd.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say it's going the zombie route, but that's just me. Maybe they'd describe it as exactly that. I just know that it's probably not going to have a zombie virus or anything.

 

 

Another thing that has struck me over the years, even with what little exposure to the comics section I've had, is it appears to be its own microcosm within the larger BZP sphere. Of course this is present everywhere (rpg players, bloggers, librarians (sic), etc all have their own cliques) but quite a bit of humor in some comics seems to be specific in-jokes that only those in the comic community get, which can also be rather off-putting. (especially when they're entered in contests and such)

 

Accessibility is a huge problem in the comics forum. Even BAC has gotten wrapped up in a few of its injokes (I thought the ending of the igsine jor was hilarious, but it only occurred to me when someone said they didn't understand makuta's motive that you'd have to have read the comic the panels were ripped from to really get the joke), and so many comics hinge entirely on jokes that require knowing the author, the PGSes, the GSes, or even a completely different comic series. I'd love for people to embrace more general forms of humor.

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The crux of that argument is that supporting a comic that finds humor in being intentionally bad is the same as supporting a morally abhorrent person, which seems like flawed logic to me. I'm not saying you need to find BAC funny, but your defense of your position is a little odd.

I never implied that finding a comic intentionally bad funny was the same as supporting a terrible person. Though I will admit I may have chosen the wrong words). What I was trying to say was that doing something ironically is still doing that thing. If you find "ironically" terrible stuff funny, fine by me.

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Arguably, there is more of an art to making something ironically terrible than to just making something terrible, but I guess not everyone sees such a distinction. I just know that few people would look at something like BAC and think "they had no idea they were making something terrible here".

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Okay. This is …so amazing…

 

Y’all have no idea how exciting this is to me.

 

I just…okay. So my turn to ramble.

I never hated anybody’s work in the forums. But I never understood why people outside the comic section community was never involved. But now I understand! All my life, I’ve been so heavily inspired by this section of the forum. I constantly go there to dream of ideas and get a good laugh. I laugh at anything pretty much. But I always wanted to see a lot of activity and CREATIVITY. And the forums lacked it for so long. Then I heard all these stories of comic makers hating one another and making comics that weren’t right and this and that, and I couldn’t understand why there was a big deal about it. But again, I’ve never asked anybody why, and this is so helpful!

I love what you’ve written here Lucina, this is something that I think I should probably start cultivating. And just like Sumiki mentioned, there was this holier-than-thou mentality going on that really hindered by ability to create something new. Which is why I made countless renditions of the same thing over and over again. I think this post is something that The studio Makers should REALLY consider. And I don’t want any of them to believe that this is another hand-drawn vs sprite comics issue. This is something WAY bigger. And I’m extremely glad that you’ve addressed this issue on a very professional level. Like lets be real here. And what’s crazy is that I’m the one making studio comics still. I’m seriously considering just scrapping it and starting something new…gotta think of something.

Oh my gosh this is so good! I’m all for this, and I’m definitely in hopes that with the new comers, they’ll bring in some more fresh ideas. :D

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I'm glad this entry was so moving for you! A lot of this is stuff I've discussed with some of my other friends from the weird comic making group we tried to make happen, like, three to four years ago, about our experiences with this forum and the strange culture it has.

 

That being said, the pretentiousness of this entry is all me. Nobody else would write this out in the tone I've written it in.

 

Honestly, if this entry manages to bring about change in the Comics forum, I'd be pleasantly surprised. My goal wasn't to inspire change so much as lay out the history of the forum, and the things that led to it becoming, essentially, the same comic series repeated ad nauseum.

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Arguably, there is more of an art to making something ironically terrible than to just making something terrible, but I guess not everyone sees such a distinction. I just know that few people would look at something like BAC and think "they had no idea they were making something terrible here".

Eh... I'd argue that really wouldn't change much. Yeah it takes effort to make something terrible, but in the end it's still terrible. That's was just how I saw it. Everyone has different tastes and things that are "ironic" aren't my cup of tea.

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That's fair, I suppose, though the scare quotes around ironic are unsettling. I enjoy the effort I put into making the comics I do, because they're fun to make, people enjoy them, and they're what I want to make, not what some standard told me I should.

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I have no problem with that, go ahead make your comics the way you want to. If people enjoy them good for those people. Like you said they're your comics at the end of the day.
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i LiKe pIe :???:

 

gosh darnit i saw you'd commented and expected one of your usual passionate diatribes but instead i found this

 

i don't know why i'm surprised

 

I just don't know anything about the comics forum. I've never been in it more than five or six times? If this was about the BBC or the constraction MOCing community you bet I'd be all over that.

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Well then, we're opposites, as I can write something like this about the comics forum, but if you asked me about the MOCing community all I could say is "they sure do build things."

 

Well, I know some notable builders, but not enough about the community to speak at length about it.

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Something I should also mention about "ironically terrible humor"... sometimes it's funnier if you make it sound like it was unintentionally terrible than if you make it so over-the-top that you can't take it seriously. There's a contest called the Lyttle Lytton Contest (won't link to it here since some entries are not BZP-appropriate) where the goal is to write a short entry that sounds like it could be the first sentence of a terrible novel. But to do that, you can't make it seem like it's meant as a joke, or it'll just seem forced.

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I think there's definitely a balance to be had, because I have definitely crossed the line on that at several points in trying to keep each comic fresh. There's definitely something to be said for keeping a sense of believability to how awful it is, and I do try to keep it that way. At the same time, however, I don't want it to be confusing as to whether or not I make it awful on purpose.

 

I can't tell if this is just something you're saying or a jab at how I make my comics.

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