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Those Annoying Moments + Zoo Problems...


Reznas

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I hate the times when you have a casual discussion with someone, they say some things that you solidly agree with and then, right at the end, they surprise you with an idea that you completely disagree with (that has relevance to the opinions you agreed with) and suddenly you lose respect for whatever opinion they ever had. For example: "I don't like zoos. [This is why]...The solution for my dislike of zoos is to bomb every single one of them and rid the earth of zoos." In these types of situations, it's really hard to know what to say. Since you agreed with everything else they said, most likely nodding your head with the occasional "totally," or "so true," it would be weird to immediately debunk their idea. This makes it really awkward. You don't want to say, "That's a stupid idea. Why did you even say that?" because it's rude, but you can't bring yourself to say you agree, because that would be lying. Usually I try to say something like, "Hmm, I don't know about that, but maybe," and then just change the subject. But there's always those people that want to continue talking about it even after you hint your disinterest.

 

Disclaimer: This has no relation with anything that has happened on BZP recently. I post this on behalf of a couple real life occurrences that slightly annoyed me and made me feel extremely awkward. Also, the zoo example never actually came up in any discussion I had, but rather, is an introduction to what I'm about to speak about.

 

---

 

Now, about zoos. I have some problems with zoos:

 

1. I don't like seeing animals crammed into a small living area out of their own environment. I mean seriously, do you expect a lion to enjoy a living area the size of a large house (space wise; by no means the height of a large house)? I understand that a lot of the animals in zoos would not function well in their own environments. A lot of them were born with problems preventing them from surviving in the wilderness; some were hurt badly in the wild and need protection and meticulous care; some have, plain and simple, grown up in a human environment (i.e. a zoo) and don't know how to survive in the wild. But regardless, I don't understand why we can't keep those sorts of animals on wildlife preserves, where they can roam their own environments and live happily. The way I see it, if people want to go see animals from exotic places in the world, they should go to wildlife preserves in those parts of the world. A safari, for instance, is a great way to soak in the African wilderness, and see a your share of wildlife. I personally love the idea of a safari.

 

2. When it comes down to it, zoos aren't built to LET us see animals; they're built so that investors can make money from the people that WANT to see animals. I personally don't want to pay a zoo to see animals I can go see for free in the wild. I understand that African safaris cost money, too, but you're paying for the tour guide (who gives thorough speculations and information about what you're seeing, something that is not as common at a zoo), not to see the animals. If you want to live the dangerous, adventurous life, you can even go solo into the African wilderness for free. Back to the main point, I really don't like dishing out my money to investors who aren't doing it for the animals. I might be generalizing a bit, but I doubt that most of the owners of zoos around America are doing it for any other reason than to rake in a lot of cash. That's capitalism for you (capitalism isn't always a bad thing, but in this case, it's marketing animals that, most of the time, don't belong inside of a cage, which I find wrong).

 

3. They're boring. I mean, you don't really get to see much. You'll occasionally see a lion moving around, doing this and that, but do you see much interaction? Not really... The closest thing you can find are the animal shows they do every hour. Those are the exception to the rule. I also enjoy looking at the snake/spider sections of the zoo. This is probably because I am mortified of snakes and spiders, and therefore I find no problem locking them all up in a cage and keeping them away from humanity. :P Back on point, on a safari (I keep using this example--it's a good one, I guess? :shrugs: ) you can watch animals interact and act accordingly to their environment. They have freedom to roam and to play and to do whatever they do. I find it boring to watch a polar bear lay down in his "snow" biome at the zoo and do nothing.

 

Another disclaimer: I am in no way dissing zoos. I think they're cool, and I know kids absolutely love them. I was no different when I was young. I just have some issues with zoos, now that I'm getting older.

 

-Rez

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Zoos are for entertainment and stuff, but they are also for research and for wildlife preservation. Breeding and population control are very important, especially with poaching still being a big problem for some inconceivable reason. There are a lot of different kinds of zoos out there and not all of them fit the same purpose, but in general they are as good for the animals as they are for business. Sometimes animals just are not safe out in the wild on their own, and those born in captivity are already lacking the skills they need to survive out there. Yeah, sometimes they ain't treated so great and it's sad to look at them, but there's no universal constant. Some zoos are very good places and and some are very bad places and some are just kinda... places. And they do need to get money from SOMEWHERE to take care of all those animals, it's not necessarily entirely business.

The sad truth is that we don't live in an ideal world, and it's necessary to keep some animals in zoos and although often times it's not even necessary, it's just something we do for a lot of different reasons. Some bad, but most good. Nothing is black and white.

Also, would you rather shell out a couple dollars to go to see animals in a zoo, or pay hundreds or thousands for a plane or bus ticket to go see them "for free" in the wild? :P

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I've heard some complaints about Seaworld, but have yet to do the research to see if they hold water.

 

But I mostly agree with Pomogranate.

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hold water

b'dm tss

 

I like zoos. As you acknowledge, you're quite big on the safari idea, but the long and short of it is - as Pomegranate mentioned - that for the majority of people a trip to Africa for a safari is nowhere near so feasible as is a trip to the zoo. Zoos grant the general public a convenient manner in which to see and learn about animals - an effective combination, since most people learn most effectively if they experience what they're learning about. In regards to point three, that mostly depends on the time of day you go, doesn't it? In lovely South Florida, at least, animals tend to be most active in the early morning to avoid the heat of the day.

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I like zoos, myself. Obviously many zoos in the past have been extremely exploitative, treating animals like a spectacle, pets, or even living trophies rather than like residents who are entitled to the same benefits they might experience in the wild. Today, I feel that a number of zoos have a far more egalitarian goal of increasing public awareness of biology, environmental science, and the beauty and wonder of the natural world. And as long as their animals are treated well I think that is admirable.

 

It should be noted that my particular favorite zoo, the National Zoo in Washington, D.C., is run by the Smithsonian Institution, which is non-profit, so they're not prone to the same conflicts of interest as a for-profit zoo or attraction like Sea World. Admission to the National Zoo is completely free, and money made from parking and donations is spent on things like animal care, animal research, and wildlife conservation (and obviously wages for the scientists and caretakers they employ).

 

I take issue with the idea that "if people want to go see animals from exotic places in the world, they should go to wildlife preserves in those parts of the world." It'd be amazing if this were possible for everyone. Unfortunately, it simply isn't. Very few people are wealthy enough to go on a globe-trotting adventure, particularly to very remote areas of the world where certain animals can be found. But just because people can't go to the Arctic to see the polar bears doesn't mean they shouldn't be aware of such animals and the environmental plights they face.

 

It goes without saying that zoos that are guilty of serious ethical missteps, like maltreatment of their animals, should face consequences including the transfer of animals that are considered to be at risk to more reputable zoos, or preparation for release into the wild if it is possible. Also, zoos that remove endangered or threatened animals from the wild to put them on public display are extremely morally suspect unless they have a long-term plan for reintroduction of those species to the wild.

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I've always thought that zoos were extremely smelly, inherently disgusting, and profoundly boring endeavors.

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Zoos are for entertainment and stuff, but they are also for research and for wildlife preservation. Breeding and population control are very important, especially with poaching still being a big problem for some inconceivable reason. There are a lot of different kinds of zoos out there and not all of them fit the same purpose, but in general they are as good for the animals as they are for business. Sometimes animals just are not safe out in the wild on their own, and those born in captivity are already lacking the skills they need to survive out there. Yeah, sometimes they ain't treated so great and it's sad to look at them, but there's no universal constant. Some zoos are very good places and and some are very bad places and some are just kinda... places. And they do need to get money from SOMEWHERE to take care of all those animals, it's not necessarily entirely business.

 

I think my problem is that I just don't like the idea of animals being on "display." I agree, some animals are certainly not fit for the wild, and a zoo is a perfect place to keep them nurtured and protected. But a wildlife preserve can have the same affect. I don't like this kind of logic: animal is hurt and can't survive on its own, therefore we give it a small living area and let people look at it day in and day out for years and years. I can agree that some zoos are good and some are bad. That's certainly true. As I said, I was generalizing a bit, just to point out my concerns about zoos.

 

I like zoos. As you acknowledge, you're quite big on the safari idea, but the long and short of it is - as Pomegranate mentioned - that for the majority of people a trip to Africa for a safari is nowhere near so feasible as is a trip to the zoo. Zoos grant the general public a convenient manner in which to see and learn about animals - an effective combination, since most people learn most effectively if they experience what they're learning about. In regards to point three, that mostly depends on the time of day you go, doesn't it? In lovely South Florida, at least, animals tend to be most active in the early morning to avoid the heat of the day.

 

You're right in saying that it costs money to travel to Africa or some other place internationally. But I was stating that I would prefer to spend money in Africa for a safari rather than spending money on a zoo in America. Skip the traveling. :P

 

But you can see a lot of cool animals in the wild wherever you live. I lived in Colorado (now in Moscow...for now), and we could just go up in the mountains to see interesting wildlife. In fact, I can say that it was much more enjoyable than going to the zoo. You had a lot more freedom and so did the animals, which made it a great experience. Plus you got to soak in the nature around you, something you don't get as much at a zoo.

 

I like zoos, myself. Obviously many zoos in the past have been extremely exploitative, treating animals like a spectacle, pets, or even living trophies rather than like residents who are entitled to the same benefits they might experience in the wild. Today, I feel that a number of zoos have a far more egalitarian goal of increasing public awareness of biology, environmental science, and the beauty and wonder of the natural world. And as long as their animals are treated well I think that is admirable.

 

This is certainly true. I definitely overgeneralized, but hey, I haven't been to every zoo in the world, so I can't speak for them all.

 

 

It goes without saying that zoos that are guilty of serious ethical missteps, like maltreatment of their animals, should face consequences including the transfer of animals that are considered to be at risk to more reputable zoos, or preparation for release into the wild if it is possible. Also, zoos that remove endangered or threatened animals from the wild to put them on public display are extremely morally suspect unless they have a long-term plan for reintroduction of those species to the wild.

 

I agree with this statement completely.

 

 

I've always thought that zoos were extremely smelly, inherently disgusting, and profoundly boring endeavors.

 

:P I can agree.

 

-Rez

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First things first, I volunteer at the Saint Louis Zoo, so write me off for bias if you must. But I think my points are still valid.

 

Zoos began as entertainment, yes, and they still serve that function for the majority of the public. People (mostly parents with kids, of course) come to see cool and exotic animals that they wouldn't otherwise see. Note that the Saint Louis Zoo's admission is absolutely free -- that makes it more accessible for everyone. (Of course, the food and merchandise is way pricey to make up for that, but still.)

 

The difference is that -- at least at my zoo -- people come for entertainment, and they walk away with knowledge. I volunteer in the Education Department, and our whole thing is information. Some of the above commentators are right; zoos are kinda boring. The animals aren't running around killing each other like you see on nature documentaries. They live pretty decent, well-fed lives, so there isn't a lot of excitement. But start telling guests about all the cool adaptations and behaviors these animals use, and they get hooked.

 

Guests love to hear about how cool animals are in the wild. This is the point where you can talk about the problems they face -- not just from natural predators or hazards, but from pollution, poaching, and other human maladies. That's very saddening to people. Gorillas are getting killed because we mine cell phone components from their forests? Oh, no!

 

That's when the important stuff comes in. These gorillas live half a world away, yes. But ordinary guests can still do something about it. It's simple -- just recycle their cellphones instead of throwing them away. That keeps some of those crucial components available for reuse, reducing the drive for miners to encroach on gorilla habitats. My zoo has a phone recycling bin right next to the gorilla exhibit, for just this purpose. It doesn't take with everyone, but many people will remember that and think more carefully about their cell phones in future.

 

And it's not just us volunteers and educators. The whole zoo is covered in signs, videos, and other modes of information communication, all with the end goal of promoting conservation and environmentalism. Obviously, there's plenty going on behind the scenes, as well; I've been helping to care for American burying beetles in the Insectarium, and next month we'll be releasing them into the wild.

 

That's why zoos are so important. In this day and age, they don't exist to entertain. They exist to educate and inform.

 

:)

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I'm glad that the zoo you volunteer for is doing what it is. I guess from my experience of zoos, I haven't really learned much information. I tend to learn more from reading and research than from the zoos I've been to. But maybe I just haven't been to many of the informative zoos. I've been to the Denver zoo a million times, but that was when I was younger. Maybe my idea of zoos is stimulated by my perception of them from my earlier years? I haven't been to an American zoo in years.

 

-Rez

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The zoo where I live is not that great. It has a fair amount of animals, you might learn a little, but overall if you've gone to it once you've seen pretty much everything it has to offer.

However, I want to speak up in favour of my nearest aquarium, which has been under threat of closing for some time now - I have never left it without a great deal more knowledge than I had prior to entering. While it isn't great for keeping the animals in large environments, and I don't know enough about fish to say reliably whether or not the environments are suitable, it is brilliant for education. I guess there's just that difference between different managements that causes some zoos/aquariums to be educational and some to be smelly and unsatisfying, although as far as I know most zoos have made strides toward becoming the former.

 

This comment may not be as well-articulated as some of the others, but I just wanted to chime in with my own opinion.

 

- Indigo Individual

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The zoo where I live is not that great.

 

Got to admit, when I first saw this, I thought "well, no kidding, you live in a zoo."

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The zoo where I live is not that great.

 

Got to admit, when I first saw this, I thought "well, no kidding, you live in a zoo."

 

Well yeah, were you expecting a pond? I'm a classy goose.

 

- Indigo Individual

 

EDIT: to clarify, my local ponds are much worse. They throw bread at your face.

At your face.

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