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Focus Groups


bonesiii

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Today the Bones Blog brings you a short interview with Greg Farshtey on the subject of focus groups, an often-misunderstood concept lately. What are the facts? Bold is for important points. Blue is me, black is Greg.

The Q&A

bonesiii:
I've noticed lately that one of the cookie-cutter arguments complainers are using has been the anti-focus groups one. [someone] just claimed in a topic for example that focus groups just like whatever LEGO throws at them in thanks for being chosen. He also said younger fans buy "anything".


GregF:
That is a very common misconception of people who have never attended a focus group. Trust me -- I attended the initial groups we did for Dino Attack when the theme was just going to be hunting and trapping dinos -- beautiful sets, and the kids hated every one of them. They wanted the heroes to be attacking the dinos, so they got redone as more aggressive sets and sold great. Same with BIONICLE -- the kids are forced to make choices in these groups, of which sets of the group they like best and why. These are professionally run groups, managed by market research professionals outside of LEGO Company, so a kid who just says, "I like everything!" won't be allowed to get away with that answer.

bonesiii:
Why are focus groups important?


GregF:
Focus groups are important because, with any product, you need to gauge reactions from your primary audience. This is why movie studios do previews and have people fill out comment cards .... this is why TV producers have people watch their shows and turn a dial up or down when they like something or they don't. Every manufactuer just about uses some form of focus group or focus testing, whether they do it themselves or they hire an outside firm to do it. And all those BIONICLE sets everyone on here loved in 2001 and 2002 all came out of focus groups too.

bonesiii:
What's the basic process of choosing focus group members?


GregF:
LEGO contacts our market research firm, tells them what we want to test, how many sessions we want, how many kids in what age range, and what level of enthusiasm we want them to have for the line (heavy users, medium users, light users, and sometimes even rejecters, though not often). They then recruit the kids, so we have nothing to do with the selections directly. They also conduct the groups and present a debrief when they're done, we just observe from another room.

bonesiii:
How important are their reactions to the final product compared to other things like past sales or just set designer's instincts or whatnot?


GregF:
Designer instincts and past sales tend to go into the initial design phase. And they do play a part in that you don't automatically change everything you hear a criticism about -- some things have to stay the same for manufacturing reasons, etc. Also, you pay more attention to comments you hear from multiple groups, not just comments from one or two. If you have, say, 8 or 12 sessions over three days (which is common) with different groups of kids each time, and they all pick the same option or they all hate the same thing, you have to pay attention to that.

bonesiii:
Do they like "anything"? It would be pointless to bother with them if they just liked everything, right?


GregF:
You're right, it would be pointless. But that's not the case. It's pretty easy to spot kids who aren't really into it or aren't thinking about their feedback, and less weight is given to their comments. Most of these kids take their job very seriously and they get pressed to defend their comments. If they like something, or they dislike something, they have to say why. If they think something could be better, they have to say how it could be better. The difference between a focus group and an online forum is that focus groups are pushed to be as constructive as possible in their comments, where online posters can just say, "That stinks!" and no more. Because of that, we get a lot more valuable feedback from the groups.

I would also add that focus groups are not just used for sets -- they are also used for TV ads, magazine redesigns, online and offline game testing, etc.

Are focus groups infallible? No, they're not. But what I see when I see people screaming about them is that they are basically saying, "They should listen to me and not them" -- in other words, the complainers don't object to focus groups, they just want to BE the focus group.

My Thoughts

In my observation, this is more of a "grasping at straws" tactic that some complainers have started using. Some of it might be taste discrimination; implying that the focus groups and thus the tastes of most fans are somehow inferior to the complainer in question, or it might simply be an assumption that the focus groups aren't accurate.

If it's taste discrimination, I've already addressed this fallacious, but somewhat understandable mistake here: Taste Discrimination Fallacy, Equality of Taste.

If it's a question of accuracy, there's some huge problems with that.

1)
Complainers don't have magical access to what the majority wants
anymore than anybody else. Just because we might wish we were the focus group doesn't mean our tastes would be more accurate to the majority. In fact the opposite is often true; online fans are often very different from most fans, in any franchise.


2)
Random sampling is a proven technique for accurate polling
in all areas, including political polling and in fact any kind you can think of. Naturally, the majority will most often be the ones picked.


3) Many of the
trends in focus group opinions were represented vocally on BZPower
before several problems were fixed. Gear unpopularity, and more "violence/darkness" come to mind. The latter fits Greg's example from Dino Attack too -- so before the problem was fixed, the "complainers" basically
were
the same taste-group as the focus groups.


4) LEGO uses an
independant firm, and the system inherently requires intelligent responses
. It's not the simplistic "LEGO shows a few kids the prototypes and they all say 'I likey!'" that complainers seem to have in mind.


5) Most importantly, as LEGO has improved sets more and more, listening to focus groups included,
sales have gone up.



Either way, I've seen the argument come up seemingly because almost all other illogical complaints have been so thoroughly debunked, while this one hasn't. Those using it display an almost shocking ignorance of what focus groups are exactly and how they work -- ignorance is not necessarily something to be ashamed of, but if you're going to propose that something is a problem, you should be familiar with its details. Yet those using it seemingly have made no effort to find out, so it seems more like a convenient excuse to keep complaining.

Hopefully, this entry will help clear up such confusion.

Ultimately, the important lesson is that NO illogical argument should be used to say "I don't like this; LEGO shouldn't have done it." We're all free to dislike sets, but that's a matter of taste, not a matter of what LEGO actually should do. Just because you don't enjoy something doesn't mean it's a "problem" -- because you're not the only fan.

Instead, we should seperate our personal tastes from our opinions about what LEGO should do. So if focus groups' tastes tend to be different from yours, you should be mature enough to say "I wish focus groups and most fans shared my tastes, but this is reality and I can deal with it. I agree LEGO should pay attention to focus group results."

:)

Now, if you can show some problem with focus groups that none of us have thought of, by all means, let's hear it. Otherwise, that argument ain't gonna fly no mo'. :P




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Yeah, I've seen people who just say that the focus groups approve whatever is handed to them. Then I point out that if that was so, then we would've had Mistika Nuva that resembled the '02 Nuva better. :P

 

But thanks for this. I never knew that it was an outside agency that did it, or that it was such an involved process.

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Ah, Bonesiii, you never fail to disappoint. You did a good job pinpointing all of the arguments, and disproving them.

 

Awesome new image too XD.

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Thanks Bones and Greg. I've been curious about this subject for a while, and this clears up my doubts and confusion.

Have some:
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-Taipu-
(really Bunda)
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Thanks for this entry Bones. It explains a lot about the testing process that I never knew before. :)

 

In other words, the complainers don't object to focus groups, they just want to BE the focus group.

That quote really makes sense.

Once again, a huge thank you to both of you. :)

It's interesting to hear about the Dino Attack sets too. All Lego did was basically exchange cages for a few blasters and guns, and the focus group loved them.

-Ax-

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Nice work on the usual stuff etc... I don't have much to say. In fact I just made this comment to ask what the image at the top is.

 

 

What's the image at the top? :P

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Nice work on the usual stuff etc... I don't have much to say. In fact I just made this comment to ask what the image at the top is.

 

 

What's the image at the top? :P

Dude, you have not lived unless you see the latest episode of LOST (hint: online video)! :o It's the most freakin' awesome Smoke Monster scene ever! My pic doesn't even come close to doing it justice either. :D

 

I pity thee, if ye know not the glory that is LOST. :P

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Oh yeah, I saw that last week, I just couldn't recognise it. :blush: That episode was awesome as was the monster. :P I was waiting all through that scene for the monster to attack them in some way. ^_^

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I would just like to say that the Focus Groups should be made aware of which sets are female charahters.Due to tradgedies such as Hahli Inika's mustach or Gali Newva's mask Krekka face.So there for it is my opinion that Focus Groups need to know who's a guy and who is a girl.

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So we shouldn't blame Lego, but the focus group company they hire!

 

:blink: Or not. Rather interesting interview.

 

:music:

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This does clear most of the main complaints away, but we can't know for certain what designs were presented. The groups may dislike older set styles (Design, not technicisim/gears), or they may not be presented with anything besides modern Inika-clone Toa.
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This does clear most of the main complaints away, but we can't know for certain what designs were presented. The groups may dislike older set styles (Design, not technicisim/gears), or they may not be presented with anything besides modern Inika-clone Toa.

Designs that are presented are no doubt up-to-date. This is unavoidable, unless LEGO wants their most recent parts to seem inconsistent with new parts. Happily, besides the fall of simplicity in part designs, there has not been much loss from that aspect of set design. It will take at least a paragraph to express my feelings about the other aspect, that being set structure.

 

It's hard not to laugh at the concept of Inika-clone Toa, since every story book (I still will refer to them as such, even if the story team no longer uses them, due to the two or three-year arcs not having a better name) has given us one type of Toa torso and various clones of that Toa type (arguably, two types for Metru Nui, though I am reluctant to call the Toa Hordika construction a true Toa torso). I think the sets of today are magnificent (the Mistika Nuva disappoint me in quite a few ways, but in no way is this because of their basic construction), and as long as we see significant innovation in 2009 (which, if the revolutionary quality of the Metru Nui and Voya Nui stories is any indicator, is a definite), I will be satisfied with the heyday of the Inika torso construction.

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This does clear most of the main complaints away, but we can't know for certain what designs were presented. The groups may dislike older set styles (Design, not technicisim/gears), or they may not be presented with anything besides modern Inika-clone Toa.

Actually, many times we do get photos of prototypes. True, we don't know for sure that those prototypes were the ones tested, although I suppose you could ask Greg in each case if he knows, if you were super-curious. :P

 

Also, Greg has mentioned before that sometimes they present older sets alongside new sets or prototypes, and the newer sets are almost universally more popular. I don't have any info on which ones were used, though.

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What I would love to see, in the end of the fiscal year of Bionicle, would eb the video of the focus group they worked on the year before. With the obvious parental permission.

 

If that happened I would be satisfied and know how to properly criticize the next years sets. Wether good or bad, I have to not only see with my yes, but in the eyes of who they are actually focusing for.

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I would love to see that too, but it's probably a bad idea because it might reveal too much about the process that other toy companies could steal. :shrugs:

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Maybe just show all the sets and protoypes used, and show us which one went over the best. So far we've only seen a few prototypes.

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So there for it is my opinion that Focus Groups need to know who's a guy and who is a girl.
Why? why do masks have to look feminine?

They don't they just have to not look like they they have facial hair (Like Hahli Inika with her "mustach") or look ugly (Like how Gali Mistika has "Krekka's face").

I do not think the masks have to look feminine, I just think they (The masks) need to not make them (The female charahters) look like guys.

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They don't they just have to not look like they they have facial hair (Like Hahli Inika with her "mustach") or look ugly (Like how Gali Mistika has "Krekka's face").

I do not think the masks have to look feminine, I just think they (The masks) need to not make them (The female charahters) look like guys.

Two sides to my answer, so keep both in mind:

 

1) Why would they "have" to, though? From what I've heard, blue sets sell very well consistently. I have heard nothing about unfeminine masks hurting sets sales. Makes sense -- most target age kids don't care about that. :P

 

For the record, Hahli's mask did NOT have a moustache -- it was tubes. Fitting for a Toa of Water. Yes, it could have been mistaken for one (since it obviously was), but this just shows why your second sentence wouldn't work -- anything non-feminine will be misinterpreted as masculine by some people.

 

See my previous blog entry about Gali's real mask (not the prototype you saw from Toyfair), and judge for yourself whether it's too much like Krekka's face, or looks a little more like a Kaukau. :)

 

Also, that's actually an even better example of why your second sentence doesn't work -- there's nothing about that mask that can be said to be totally masculine, and yet since it's not (all that) feminine, people are mistaking it for being masculine.

 

Finally, Hahli Mahri's mask looked plenty feminine IMO. :)

 

2) That said, I don't like it either. :P

 

Although frankly Hahli Inika's mask looked very feminine IMO. It was just that at first glance you might think it's a moustache but when you look directly (and not even that hard), you see it really doesn't look like one at all, and the stylization is very "curvy" like an animalesque female. Mainly Galii Mistika's prototype mask that I thought looked way too masculine, but the real one is better IMO. :)

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They don't they just have to not look like they they have facial hair (Like Hahli Inika with her "mustach") or look ugly (Like how Gali Mistika has "Krekka's face").

I do not think the masks have to look feminine, I just think they (The masks) need to not make them (The female charahters) look like guys.

Two sides to my answer, so keep both in mind:

 

1) Why would they "have" to, though? From what I've heard, blue sets sell very well consistently. I have heard nothing about unfeminine masks hurting sets sales. Makes sense -- most target age kids don't care about that. :P

 

For the record, Hahli's mask did NOT have a moustache -- it was tubes. Fitting for a Toa of Water. Yes, it could have been mistaken for one (since it obviously was), but this just shows why your second sentence wouldn't work -- anything non-feminine will be misinterpreted as masculine by some people.

 

See my previous blog entry about Gali's real mask (not the prototype you saw from Toyfair), and judge for yourself whether it's too much like Krekka's face, or looks a little more like a Kaukau. :)

 

Also, that's actually an even better example of why your second sentence doesn't work -- there's nothing about that mask that can be said to be totally masculine, and yet since it's not (all that) feminine, people are mistaking it for being masculine.

 

Finally, Hahli Mahri's mask looked plenty feminine IMO. :)

 

2) That said, I don't like it either. :P

 

Although frankly Hahli Inika's mask looked very feminine IMO. It was just that at first glance you might think it's a moustache but when you look directly (and not even that hard), you see it really doesn't look like one at all, and the stylization is very "curvy" like an animalesque female. Mainly Galii Mistika's prototype mask that I thought looked way too masculine, but the real one is better IMO. :)

About the "moustache" I was just going with the the majority on that I think it looks more like those oxygen tubes most commonly used by senior citizens, But that's besides the point.

I just think that their mask should look like something they would choose to wear.

And by choose to wear i mean they would pick out of a pile of mask all the same power but all differant styles over a mask like Hahli Inika's or Gali Mistika's.

P.S. I have seen the pics in that blog entry,

 

I still think they have no right to pass that off as Gail the set looks nothing like her and the mask is way to ugly.

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About the "moustache" I was just going with the the majority on that I think it looks more like those oxygen tubes most commonly used by senior citizens, But that's besides the point.

How do you know you went with the majority? Can you cite something from LEGO that backs that assertion up? I've seen this in posts by BZP members -- but we are a tiny minority of the fanbase. :)

 

I just think that their mask should look like something they would choose to wear.

And by choose to wear i mean they would pick out of a pile of mask all the same power but all differant styles over a mask like Hahli Inika's or Gali Mistika's.

How do you know what the character would choose to wear? Masks are chosen for their power, not their look. It isn't jewelry -- it's an artifact of power. :P Mask shape goes with the power -- the point of the shape in their culture is so you can tell at a glance what power it has. :) I think you're confusing Matoran culture for our own -- but there are huge differences.

 

Look at MNOG Ga-Koro for example and you'll find out that many Ga-Koronans are wearing various mask-shapes, many of them not feminine at all, even masculine. They do not seem to care about this. (And really, why would they?)

 

P.S. I have seen the pics in that blog entry,

 

I still think they have no right to pass that off as Gail the set looks nothing like her and the mask is way to ugly.

Imold, it's one thing to say "I dislike it" (and I don't so much either), but it's quite another to say "they have no right to do it." That's taste discrimination. On what basis do they not have such a right? Of course they do. This is entertainment; don't take it that seriously man. ;)

 

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Well, I stand corrected. :P I simply thought LEGO took the focus groups in once, did as they said (or didn't say) and sent the kids home. Thanks for this, Bones! :)

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