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Adventure Mystery

Posted by bonesiii , Feb 10 2009 · 215 views

Etcetera




Today the Bones Blog brings you an explanation of my term for the style of writing I love best -- the 'genre' I write. I consider LOST and Bionicle itself to be the best examples of this "genre". Scifi? Fantasy? Mystery? Thriller? Drama? No -- it's the best of all of those wrapped up into one awesome style -- Adventure Mystery!

There's a newer breed of story that began with LOST (and, I would argue, with Bionicle). Take a look at the "genre" section on Wikipedia's LOST page and you'll see that's it's a mess. A joke. LOST doesn't fit into any one of those genres -- so what is it?

This entry is fairly easy to write (for me tongue.gif), because all I need to do is list the pros and cons of the various genres it's similar to -- and then take out all the cons and keep the pros. smile.gif Most definitions will be taken from Dictionary.com, then put into my own words. By no means are these definitions or pros/cons exhaustive.

If you really must, feel free to skip down to the Adventure Mystery section. tongue.gif Also added a Summary section at very end -- I promise it really IS short. biggrin.gif

Science Fiction

QUOTE
science fiction

–noun
a form of fiction that draws imaginatively on scientific knowledge and speculation in its plot, setting, theme, etc.
Origin:
1925–30


I've taken a whole college class centered around trying to define scifi vs./and fantasy, and the one thing everybody agrees on is that nobody agrees on how precisely to define or categorize the two genres, especially scifi. Some say scifi is a category under fantastic fiction, others say fantasy is a category under scifi. Just about every scifi author has their own definition and many have core components such as addressing a key aspect of culture or human nature, or taking place in the future. Yet other scifi invariably violates such definitions.

What I've put forth on my blog before is that scifi and fantasy form two ends of a spectrum of "physics fiction", with science fantasy in the middle. All three genres are generally distinct from "normal" genres in that they in some way tie the fictionality to physics. (See Bones Blog: Science Fantasy = Bionicle.)

Scifi tends to explain the physics of its universes, and usually to make it sound plausible within real physics.

Now if you're wondering where Adventure Mystery fits in the spectrum, well, it doesn't. It can actually fit in any of the three genres, and technically it could somewhat fit with stuff like CSI: Miami. But more on that later.

Pros:
  • Scifi is the most believable of the "physics fiction" genre
  • Many of its scifi concepts can be (and have been) later actually done in the real world
  • It tends to be "grounded" better and thus more relatable to for humans
Cons:
  • It tends towards long-winded boring explanations
  • Often feels very "out there", plausible but still hard to believe could actually be true
  • Stereotyped -- often fairly -- as pessimistic and dark
  • Grounded perhaps too much in that it usually can't do anything innovative with physics without an "explanation", wheras fantasy can do fictional physics to make a more important psychological point.
Fantasy

QUOTE(relevant portions of definitions)
Literature. an imaginative or fanciful work, esp. one dealing with supernatural or unnatural events or characters

Fiction with a large amount of imagination in it

I define fantasy as the opposite end of the "physics fiction" spectrum. Fantasy doesn't worry about -- and often bans -- the explanation of its made-up physics. Fantasy and scifi are both often about culture and human nature primarily, but fantasy approached it from a more direct route.

Pros:
  • More free to be "about" human nature
  • No limits to what is plausible; throws the traditional physics rules out the window
  • Virtually no "explanations" needed.
  • Tend to be optimistic or "fanciful".
Cons:
  • Mostly unbelievable except as something like a different universe entirely or as secret aspects of the real world
  • Generally useless to real world science
  • Difficult to relate to as humans; not grounded as much as scifi
  • Stereotype as being "escapism"
Science Fantasy

QUOTE(Wikipedia (D.com doesn't have it))
Science fantasy is a mixed genre of story which contains some science fiction and some fantasy elements.


See the aforelinked blog entry for more on how I see this as being defined. Essentially, it can mix and match anything from scifi and fantasy in any way.

If Adventure Mystery fits in any other genre, it's this one.

But I raise CSI: Miami (and shows like it) as a possible "fringe example" of something on the edges of this genre because it tends to be highly advenurous (more so than most crime dramas including the other CSIs IMO, though I don't watch much of CSI: NY so not sure), and obviously it's mystery, yet it's not "physics fiction." It does tend to brush the edges of scifi, though, touching on new technology often (of course, many other such dramas do that too, esp. NCIS and Numbers).

Pros:
  • It's freer to be grounded and yet also focused directly on human nature.
  • Any of the pros from either scifi or fant, it can have.
Cons:
  • It's more nebulous even than scifi and fantasy -- pretty nebulous already -- so it's difficult to define beyond "mix".
  • Any of the cons from the other two.
Mystery

QUOTE
mys⋅ter⋅y
/ˈmɪstəri, -tri/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [mis-tuh-ree, -tree] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -ter⋅ies.
3. a novel, short story, play, or film whose plot involves a crime or other event that remains puzzlingly unsettled until the very end: a mystery by Agatha Christie.

Mystery is the main thing that Adventure Mystery is about, so you might think it goes in this genre. Unfortunately, though, "Mystery" has a deeply engrained stereotype as being specifically about real-world-style crime drama. Esp. Murder Mystery. When you say "Mystery", people think "Sherlock Holmes."

There is some similarity, and obviously the mystery of murders and the search for clues can be major aspects of AM. Ex from my stories, Mindfire was the winner of the Epics Murder Myster Contest, and Epic 2: Agents of Surrender was all about a CSI-style investigation of clues about the hidden enemy. As a Bionicle example, I'd give Greg's original Tuyet story on BZP, and from LOST the whole Season 1 issue of "what Kate did" before the crash.

But Adventure Mystery is definately not limited to crime mystery, and so it cannot fairly be put under this category. Bionicle is certainly not a crime drama. The LOST Monster wouldn't fit in a Sherlock Holmes story. tongue.gif

Pros:
  • Mind puzzles up the wazoo
  • Also clearly about human nature and the like
  • Sense of "who can be trusted?" most famous from this genre
  • Seen as optimistic or realistic generally; the crime is usually solved, the bad guy caught, etc.
  • A specific genre that doesn't have the vagueness problems the physics fiction tends to
Cons:
  • Not as thrilling or suspenseful; feel small-scale and perhaps "quaint"; hard to feel the threat of the enemy
  • So specific it sort of chains up "mystery" into a lesser form of mysteriousness
  • Not as directly about human nature as fantasy or scifant can be, though lacking the stereotype against this
  • Limited (in the usual definition) to real-world physics
Thriller

QUOTE
thriller

noun
a suspenseful adventure story or play or movie

Thriller best example I would give is the Bourne Trilogy. Matrix, etc. Heavily about action adventure, which is a major aspect of Bionicle and Adventure Mystery, but not necessarily focused on mystery. It's about fighting. Kung fu. Yadda. tongue.gif And the genre name to me brings to mind real-world settings, not generally scifi or fantasy. Ex: I wouldn't classify Bourne as scifi, though maybe on the fringe of it.

Pros:
  • As the name implies, thrilling and heavily into suspense
  • Just plain fun
  • The threat of the enemy tends to be VERY felt
  • Can be very about human nature
  • Explosions.
Cons:
  • Stereotype as NOT being about human nature, "just a buncha fighting", and sometimes deserved
  • Can be in the "physics fiction" genres but stereotyped as being "real world"; spy/conspiracy movies, etc.
  • Mystery is often merely to aid suspense, not about the feeling of mystery itself
  • Tend to feel like characters are dragged through it, not exploring willingly.
Drama

QUOTE
dra⋅ma
   /ˈdrɑmə, ˈdræmə/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [drah-muh, dram-uh] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a composition in prose or verse presenting in dialogue or pantomime a story involving conflict or contrast of character, esp. one intended to be acted on the stage; a play.
2. the branch of literature having such compositions as its subject; dramatic art or representation.
3. the art dealing with the writing and production of plays.
4. any situation or series of events having vivid, emotional, conflicting, or striking interest or results: the drama of a murder trial.
5. the quality of being dramatic.


QUOTE("dramatic" portions)
sensational in appearance or thrilling in effect

highly effective; striking

All fiction is drama to some extent. As a genre name it can also mean a wide variety of things but tends to refer to "real world" fiction. Esp. "Daytime drama" cheese on television. tongue.gif

The main weakness I would say is the opposite of the strength of fantasy according to Tolkien -- fantasy can show human nature much more clearly than "real world fiction" by taking it out of context. It can take away all the 'excuses' of setting that we tend to use to avoid understanding ourselves in the real world. Drama often seems to me to ironically have less emotional impact than "physics fiction" because it tries too hard, and is stuck in the whirlwind of the everyday. If we do not see our own nature clearly in the mundane that we already live in, using that setting in fiction tends to have the same mind-numbing effect.

Pros:
  • The most direct human nature theme
  • Generally the most grounded and easiest to relate to; often about normal lives and situations.
Cons:
  • Stereotype as limited to 'real world"; imagination is limited
  • May be directly about human nature, but incapable of focusing on human nature out of context; limited in HOW it can do so
  • Soap opera cheese stereotype (generally deserved tongue.gif).
  • Tends to have 2D characters who are essentially emotional see-saws stuck into real life situations; the drama can become overdone ("melodrama" is the fancy term for that). So can ironically lose realism.

Adventure Mystery


So here's how I define Adventure Mystery (in general), taken right from my BP collection topic intro I wrote last week:

A science fantasy 'genre' that focuses on the intense thrill and adventure as the characters unravel deep, grandious mysteries, with innovative science fiction and character-focused secrets behind the mysteries.

AM is fantasy, science fantasy, and/or even real world on the surface, but tends to be science fiction in the secret hidden level that must be uncovered by the characters. Instead of long-winded explanations of the mysteries, they are slowly explored throughout the story. So the discovery is actually fun, not just pushed on the reader in summary to "justify" what is being done. You don't know why what is happening is happening, and that just makes it all the more fun.

A recent complainer said something about Bionicle and I pointed out how it was true in 2001 that is relevant here -- he whined that in Bionicle, there is "no clear justification" for why there are females among the Matoran, when they have no apparent need for gender at all. I pointed out that in 2001, we had "no clear justification" for robots being on a tropical island, or for the characters to have masks of power. Indeed we did not even get the slightest hint about masks until 2009, IMO, when now we know the island of Mata Nui was a mask on Mata Nui's face all along. It was a huge clue, and in hindsight I wonder how the heck we didn't see it.

And that is essentially what Adventure Mystery does -- it uses clues and adventure to explore the imagination of the author, not "clear justifications."

Ex: My Paracosmos is not just science fantasy; everything in it other than the fantasy physics it takes from Bionicle as a given is actually rooted in a science fiction explanation. The physics consequences of the Big Secrets lead to clues, and are actually somewhat mathematical in some areas. But I NEVER waste time on long-winded scientificey explanations, and when they DO uncover scifi aspects to the world, the characters have emotional reactions to every bit of it. Indeed, all of it is fundamentally rooted in psychology, because none of it would ever have happened if not for the motives and characterization of a certain classified founding character.

My non-Bionicle fiction is also Adventure Mystery. In that, though now is not the time to reveal any details, I basically take a revolutionary scifi approach to all the big mysteries of the real world, with plausible scifi 'semitheories' about just about everything. Example, my first episode introduces a scientific explanation for spirits that nobody else has apparently thought of (readers of my old Wacky Physics topic may remember an earlier version of it), but I do this through exploration and mystery, not preachy explanation, so it's fun.

By the end of the planned series such semitheories will "explain" everything from why I believe God not only exists but HAS to exist to wave-particle duality of light to what the Greek myths could have been founded on to many mysteries of ancient culture to how superhero powers like telekinesis could actually work for normal human beings. Also with plausible scifi ideas for cool fictional mysteries just made up for the fun of 'em, heh, and to focus on human nature, yadda. ziplip.gif If I were to sum it up, I'd say that people usually claim the "magic" or supernatural in stories like Lord of the Rings, Narnia, Harry Potter, etc. can't be explained with science, or shouldn't be -- my fiction quite simply throws that rule in the trash compactor where it belongs and opens up anything to explanation discovery.

LOST appears to be doing things similar to both of the above. Ex: The hatch had a scientific explanation behind it, but it was teased and slowly revealed over two whole seasons. Traditional scifi would have wasted that brilliant concept on a paragraph or more of long-winded explanation as soon as the hatch was found -- and probably would have opened the hatch way, way sooner just to try to impress the viewer with the imagination of it. But the sense of mystery would have been lost, and frankly a lot of people would have been bored. (But then maybe it SHOULD have been opened a biiiit sooner tongue.gif -- Season 1 had the opposite issue of teasing things too long, as Greg has pointed out)

Of course, doing Adventure Mystery juuuuust right is the hard part. So we DO have to list some pros and cons:

Pros:
  • All of the pros listed for all the above genres
  • Thrilling action and mystery yadda yaysies!
Cons:
  • Extremely difficult to pull off in a consistently captivating way
Adventure Mystery is not a genre to be done lightly. You do not simply sit down and start writing this -- nor do you simply establish characters setting and plot and write it out either. You must hold the audience's interests simultaneously in the characters, the action/adventure, AND the mystery. (IMO the Arena Method helps extremely towards this BTW.)

Ex: LOST Season three lost (eheh) some of the mystery and a bit of the adventure. It became too nebulous, seemed to be feeling around in the dark for a theme, and as a result it lost (There's that pun again!) a ton of viewership. I constantly struggle with maintaining that balance in my fiction, and I always worry that I'm failing at it when I start a new story or saga.

One of the biggest reasons I'm doing the BP in the first place is so that I can test out different approaches while also trying hard to maintain that balance. Adventure Mystery as a series can NOT become too established as about a certain mystery (ex: many 2001ists seemed to think the whole tropical robots thing was "Bionicle's mystery", and complained when Bionicle moved on from it/answered it). The hardest part is holding your reader's interest with each new central mystery as much or more than you did with the last one.

The basic answer seems to be twofold:

1) Make sure fans are captivated about an over-arching series mystery, like the Event with the Paracosmos, or the Island/Crash with LOST. Bionicle lost sight of that to a degree at times, and I think that explains some of the disinterest or sense that it's lost its mysteriousnes with some years from 2003-2008 or so. Thankfully, it seems established now as being the larger conflict the Great Beings are involved in, relating to the Shattering, and/or about Mata Nui's mission.

2) Make sure you have innovative smaller-scale mysteries and secrets behind the mystery that can form dots in the larger "connect the dots" grand mystery, with one taking the forefront in each major section of the arc (saga). LOST didn't really have anything like that in Season three; in Season 1 it was the Monster, in Two it was the Hatch, in Four it was the Boat, and in Season Five it's the Moving of the Island. In three it was all over the place; ended up being about getting off the island, but frankly that shouldn't have been the theme because of Gilligan's Island -- nobody actually thought they WOULD get off. It was really cool as a twist, but the theme should have been something clearer.

So anyways. This has been a non-exhaustive guide to what I mean when I use the term "Adventure Mystery." smile.gif

Final note: I define it as being in science fantasy, but again, it doesn't have to be per se. So far all clear examples I know of are, but likeisay things like CSI: Miami could be considered on the fringe of the genre. Also, Indiana Jones, Pirates of the Caribbean stand out to me as other possible examples.

Summary

Adventure Mystery:

A science fantasy 'genre' that focuses on the intense thrill and adventure as the characters unravel deep, grandious mysteries, with innovative science fiction and character-focused secrets behind the mysteries.



ION: Lotsa art for Twisted Island and the Altacosmos Chronicles done. Hopefully later today the second AC and an artwork topic for both Chronicles will be up. smile.gif Will include how I imagine Toa Helryx's Mask of Psychometry to look.

  • 1



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EmpressYumiwa
Feb 10 2009 01:09 PM
Short summary for a huge entry. XD


And you know something? You're favourite style to write is my favourite to read. =D

~EW~
    • 0
Great entry, Bones! Although it's way too early in the year to tell, I'm noticing a trend toward a bit less mystery in Bionicle. For instance, in the most recent Empire of the Skrall,
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Like I said, though, too early in the story to make a judgment on it. But I definitely agree with you, Adventure Mystery really does a good job of defining Bionicle! (Although Children's Toy Line would work, too tongue.gif )
    • 0
QUOTE(Cons of Fantasy Genre)
Mostly unbelievable except as something like a different universe entirely or as secret aspects of the real world

Hear, hear.

So much to read through. I'll have to come back to this tomorrow.

    • 0
I read the title as Adventurer Mystery. sad.gif

Anyway I've never thought about that, but it does seem like that is a good category to put it in. smile.gif

QUOTE
1) Make sure fans are captivated about an over-arching series mystery, like the Event with the Paracosmos, or the Island/Crash with LOST. Bionicle lost sight of that to a degree at times, and I think that explains some of the disinterest or sense that it's lost its mysteriousnes with some years from 2003-2008 or so. Thankfully, it seems established now as being the larger conflict the Great Beings are involved in, relating to the Shattering, and/or about Mata Nui's mission.


Shattering won't be the long term mystery I bet, I'm guessing we'll have a confirmed answer on that within the year. tongue.gif

Anyway on the point of an overarching mystery, I personally feel that having one for each section of the story and a less obvious one that affects everything is the best. The all encompassing one is to give the viewer/reader/audience to keep with it even if they don't like a few episodes and the section mysteries are to keep people interested on an episode/chapter basis. The second type you mentioned, the smaller one should be more clearly defined than in LOST I think as it's mini mysteries aren't really given their own time of focus. The Monster only appears occasionally and not in any season in particular and stuff like island moving was made too obvious at some points and the boat didn't seem to hold that much of a threat/mystery. Yeah we didn't know about it, but I don't know, it didn't ever really feel like it was a pressing matter to me. Though, I do think the hatch worked well in season one.

An example could be Bionicle even which has had it's big mysteries (2001 - 2008) and it's yearly ones. Notice how the yearly ones are the focus of mystery for the years usually? To me this makes it easier to know what order things are going to happen in, when to look for clues etc...

I do suppose the LOST like formula of having the mysteries being present and talked about, but not properly focused on (it's not just me is it? Because no particular plot element of LOST every seemed that in focus to me unless it was major like the Hatch being blown open or stuff like that...)... would be better for those who are there to unravel the mysteries and are wanting a challenge, but it doesn't work as well for people who are just causally watching it weekly...

IMO this is one reason why Heroes (minus season 2 which was stuffed up 'cause of the writer's strike) works well, it has an overarching mystery (the eclipse thing/the powers), but each season/section of the story has had it's own mystery (Sylar, the "bomb", the guy, Mr Nathan's Dad tongue.gif).

LOST has the better overarching mystery though (well, my overarching mystery is the Monster tongue.gif). But yeah, anyway I think that LOST isn't as good at those mini mysteries, because there's too many and most of them are mentioned every few episodes and as a result, if you're watching it casually, it's harder to follow. So yeah, LOST does have them and some are done pretty well, but they're not organised as well as Heroes or some other stuff IMO. smile.gif
    • 0

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"Muahahahahahahahaha*cough* *hack* *gurgle* ..... *ahem* Must remember to watch the evil laugh when the floodwaters get that high..."

--Evil Lord Survurlode


"Oh, that's an easy question. See, Sauron's One Telephone Ring looked like a metal ring, right? Well, the One Refresh looks like a ring made out of those green arrows... like on that refresh button up there. Wait... why am I telling you this?!"

--Evil Lord Survurlode,
in a BZP interview


"No, I do not get rusty! This is Stainless Steel! What? Yes, yes! They had stainless steel thousands of years ago. Yeesh."

--Evil Lord Survurlode

Gallery Of Explosions

Because explosions are the answer.





























Profundities

"While it's all well and good for someone to turn the other cheek in daily life, in times of great hardship another thought comes to mind instead; namely that one cannot turn a blind eye to the actions of evil and still call himself good."
---Nako



"This is a discussion forum for a reason; it's a place where opinions can be discussed and debated civilly, not where one person can claim their opinion as fact and all others as "just opinions." Every person should, however, support their opinions with facts and evidence of all kinds."




"'The challenge of being a Biological chronicler is understanding why Lego are using another method to sell better. It gets boring using the same ones all the time. Variety is the spice of selling, after all.'
— A Biological chronicler"



"I could convince a thousand people that the moon is made of cheese... and yet it would remain as rocky as ever."



"This is simple, people! If it hurts to hit yourself with a hammer, then don't do it!"



"A famous drummer sits down to do a drum solo, but he has to keep his solo up for five minutes. Does he do all his amazing stuff first? no! If he did that, he would loose all attention because the end would be so boring. If he were smart, he would start out with something simple, and then add to its complexity as he goes along, so that more people would be into it.

The point is, writing either a drum solo, or is like a mountain, the bigger the base, the higher it can get, and the more amazing it is. Think about it, when building a mountain of dirt or sand, you need to slowly create your huge base, then as you build towards the peak things get faster and easier to pile on. The High points are where the story is fast paced and we are reaching the climax--what we just left on the last mountain of story we had (the MU story arch), and now Greg is building a new story mountain for us."

Gallery Of Galaxies

~through the macroscope~































Sigisms

QUOTE
92% of people have moved on from Gregorian chants. If you are part of the 8% that still listens to real music, copy and paste this into your sig.


QUOTE
Least Favorite Edit Of Your Least Favorite Post On Your Most Favorite Day Of The Month?


QUOTE
Secret Info: The Red Star is Tahu's mobile space mansion, complete with servants.


QUOTE
Join the petiton for ban bad grammer toady!


QUOTE
9009 Ways To Say "I Heart Spam"


QUOTE
92% of all teenagers claim they're in the 8% that hasn't moved on to rap.
If you are part of the 0% that still uses real math, copy and paste this into your sig.


QUOTE
What Is Your Alter-Ego's Imaginary Friend's Least Favorite Pet Collar?

Certificates Of Approval

Various award imagery and suchnot:






(Above from Makaru; resized to fit.)










(Resized to fit.)


















The above earned twice.




















Certificates Of Approval

Part 2









Needs sized down



Needs sized down













/---------------!.!----------------\
/This blog has been approved by \
/--------------Saiph--------------\
/----------------------------------\
/-For demonstrating outstanding-\
/~~~~RHYME and REASON~~~~\
\----------------!.!-----------------/











_bonesquotes_i

QUOTE
Logic is the key.


QUOTE
I am insane. I know that I am insane. In fact, I know that I am so insane, that I am incapable of realizing that I am insane. Therefore, I know that I am not insane.


QUOTE
Forgetting things since.... umm....


QUOTE
Creativity should not be confused with nuclear weapons.


QUOTE
I heart logic.


QUOTE
Only dead things do not change. Much.


QUOTE
Pay attention now. Repeat after me. "Bones. Can. Be. Wrong."


QUOTE
The problem is, "Tradition for tradition's sake" is like flying blind in an airplane. It's like saying as you approach a mountain "But we've always flown in this direction before... why would we change direction? It isn't the tradition!"


QUOTE
Remember that -- clever absurdity, designed to harmonize with certain tastes, is the key to originality.


QUOTE
Ironicles.


QUOTE
People are like snowflakes. No two are the same.


QUOTE
Yes, the Toa will win somehow. But let me give you a challenge. Write a story. In which the good guys win, or the bad guys win, doesn't matter. But write it with only introducing the challenges that the winner must overcome, and avoid showing how the winner wins. Just set up the problem, then skip to the end:

"In the end, this character wins, somehow."

Now, do you think this is a successful format for a story, that anybody would really want to read? [...] Readers demand that you as writer have thought through the "how" of the story.


QUOTE
Where is this idea coming from?


QUOTE
Makutarahk


QUOTE
[L]et's not mince words here -- all LEGO products are toys. It's a toy company, in the toy business. There's nothing wrong with that.


QUOTE
[A] wise Daoist once said that a name is merely a label. If a person calls me a "nerd", then that is their label for me. If a person calls me a "human", that is a label. If they call me "bonesiii", that is a label. I would simply reply that, if "nerd" is the term they wish to apply to me, like "human", then so be it -- I would thus be proud of that label, because I am proud of who I am.


QUOTE
I'm not telepathic.


QUOTE
I don't know if this is just the way I'm wired, but I don't really think like "hey, wanna be my friend?" I just be myself, treat others with respect and friendliness, and those who would make good friends just sorta show up. And I really don't think like "well, you're not my friend, you are, you aren't" etc. Anybody can be my friend.


QUOTE
*revives topic, only to kill it seconds later*


QUOTE
My two pieces of eight.


QUOTE
Ha ha! Voriki myth still isn't dead? It's been so long since the constant flow of these topics stopped I guess I thought Voriki had finally kicked the bucket. Well, I hate to put another nail in the old guy's coffin, but...

Topic closed.

I Heart Logic

_bonesquotes_ii

QUOTE
Ahhhhh, the sweet smell of complaint topics in July!


QUOTE
I think Evil Lord Survurlode is out to get me.


QUOTE
Bionicle doesn't revolve around ANY one fan. Not even you.


QUOTE
Bionicle does NOT age with its fans.


QUOTE
If something absolutely has to be done for the greater good, it is by definition NOT evil.


QUOTE
Think, guys, think! You have brains! Use them!


QUOTE
Logic is not some meaningless buzzword you can throw around like pie, at least not as long as I, an actual logician, am here.


QUOTE
Common myth. The answer is: "Yes, if you are an ancient Greek."


QUOTE
Last I checked, most of us aren't ancient Greeks. tongue.gif Some of us are ancient Geeks, but...


QUOTE
Besides, show me a brown rock, and I'll use your logic on you. "That's not a rock, it's hardened lava."


QUOTE
The best symbol of stone would be gray. But it would probably sell almost as bad as brown -- LEGO needed a "flashy" color, more like what Ta, Ga, and Le Toa have.


QUOTE
Do not insult cheese.


QUOTE
Omi's right.


QUOTE
Forty-two.

(Four eight fifteen sixteen twenty-three... *ahem*)


QUOTE
Logic! Why don't they teach logic in these schools?


QUOTE
Can you imagine MNOG ending with the Turaga and Matoran executing Ahkmou?


QUOTE
So here's the question: If LEGO working harder by listening to fans is "lazy", then wouldn't they be "lazy" if they listened to you -- a fan?


QUOTE
You don't need to hate to say it.


QUOTE
Four extra letters. "Bionicle sets." How hard is that?

Actually, three extra letters since the s just moves.


QUOTE
If they are "Bionicles", then you are "History".


QUOTE
BZPers are often the exception, not the rule.

::celestial_drink::

_bonesquotes_iii

QUOTE
Of course it's cruel -- did you think bad guys were Mother Teresa?


QUOTE
It isn't like I hide it, but it also isn't like I go up to random students at college at say "Hey, I like Bionicle, isn't that something?!"


QUOTE
One man's junk is another man's treasure.


QUOTE
I had the same theory in ages past, and Greg personally disproved it.


QUOTE
The thing can destroy time, man. You guard those kinda things.


QUOTE
Brevity is the soul.


QUOTE
Which I suppose is a fancy way of saying, "I have no idea."


QUOTE
I attack my own theories. I'm weird like that.


QUOTE
If only books could be updated like web pages.


QUOTE
Bionicle was supposedly a betrayal of everything LEGO stands for, its pieces far too clunky, a horrible turn away from the more "intelligent" Technic and a total stabbing in the back of the good old brick, an insult to AFOLS, evidence of a mythical trend away from the construction toy, far too violent, etc.


QUOTE
It's really pretty simple:

Gadunka is one of the "coolest" sets ever. Most inventive, most unusual, most striking. Thus, he is horrible.


QUOTE
Of course they're weird. All Bionicle names are supposed to be weird. Show me the Bionicle name that is "normal".


QUOTE
You just completely contradicted yourself. If Mata Nui was working out great, then wouldn't Metru Nui have made less money?



QUOTE
If that's greedy, then you are greedy for driving in a car to get somewhere far away fast, for wearing shoes so you can walk at a reasonable pace without cutting your feet, using silverware to better eat your food, using a telephone to avoid having to make a trip and speak, using a computer to type a forum post when you could walk personally to everybody's house and speak what you just said over and over and over again.... At least 2000 times to account for all the possible active BZP members, and preferably about five million times -- and you'd have to go door to door throughout the whole world to even figure out which people were Bionicle fans anyways before you started confusing monks in Tibet with strange words like "Kongu" and "Cordak". All within your own lifetime, regardless of whatever else you had wanted to do in your life.

And forget speech. You have to scratch out the message with your fingernails in stone. Then maybe you wouldn't be greedy. Maybe.



QUOTE
Nobody would surprise me, so it's probably Makuta. But I went with Hydraxon, because he's a weapons master and it would make sense, no?


QUOTE
Why didn't I think of that earlier?


QUOTE
I don't just ask rhetorical questions -- I answer them.


QUOTE
I knew you'd say that.


QUOTE
You're a body with a head. So what?


QUOTE
A simple conversion is not a business plan to actually get two radically different markets to behave as if they were the same.


QUOTE
Um, hello? Are my posts invisible?


QUOTE
Universe go poof.

We All Live In An

_bonesquotes_iiii

QUOTE
I hate typing Roman numerals above three.


QUOTE
I always find these topics funny -- everybody goes in circles, pointing to the exact same aspect of the set and going "See that? So it's obvious it's horrible! How can you not see that?", and then someone else saying, "See that? It's obvious it's awesome! How can you not see that?"


QUOTE
Obviously, not everybody sees I to I.


QUOTE
They have their uses -- like if you're making a MOC that's supposed to be a light green faceless humanoid.


QUOTE
I hate it when I can't tell if someone's joking.


QUOTE
Yes, that's an excuse to be lazy.


QUOTE
Hold on just a second. I think you have things backwards. Mata Nui was not paradise -- it was a place of horror and war for a thousand years!


QUOTE
Lol.


QUOTE
I'm a logician. I can tell you that your argument does not merely sound illogical. It is.


QUOTE
Yeah, that'd be bad. Next question?


QUOTE
We'd still have wooden ducks, no plastic bricks, and definately no LEGO if change was prevented. Really, we wouldn't even have that.


QUOTE
It is unfortunate that it's this way (at least for us). But it is. We might as well come to grips with it.


QUOTE
And I walk away in peace.


QUOTE
You have no idea how many times I've read this style of opening to this kind of topic, man. I must admit I am very very tired of it.

*deeeeep breath*

*shakes head madly*

Okay, I'm good.


QUOTE
My memory doesn't go back that far.


QUOTE
If I didn't agree with something, I'd try to find out the reasons for it before doing anything else, which is something I think some people forget to do and instead they dig themselves a hole for no reason.


QUOTE
Lol, I think you missed the point -- BR isn't going to think your forum deserves approval if he has to be told it exists.


QUOTE
I'm a coolomaniac.


QUOTE
But I like spam!
Wait...


QUOTE
This is not a country. This is a website. Countries are led by governments. Websites are owned by owners. Countries are places you physically exist in, and may have difficulty leaving. Websites are places YOU choose to go. Countries are places you may be born in, or grow up in, etc.

BZPower is a place YOU sign an agreement in order to join. Blame cannot be placed on us when a member violates that agreement. And if a member chooses not to like that agreement anymore, they are free to leave at will. If a member violates the agreement they made with us, we are justified in punishing the member as agreed.


QUOTE
I'm a logician -- I think in terms of what makes sense all the time. I don't just agree -- I know why I agree, and I think my reasons are pretty sound.


QUOTE
If I'm breaking a rule, it's because I gave myself permission to allow myself an exception, thus I am not technically breaking it.


QUOTE
[A]lthough Evil Lord Survurlode does seem to be making a bit of a comeback, just like Sauron, so we might have an epic war that will spawn a novel and three giant books of a trilogy soon... but yeah...


QUOTE
I object to the wording of this question.


QUOTE
Huzzah?

I'm A Doctor, Not A Great Being

_bonesquotes #whatever

QUOTE
Ever had one of those moments where you think you just passed into an alternate timeline? This is one. ()_o


QUOTE
Rants are based on pompous egos and desire to pick a fight. Not intelligence.


QUOTE
The Monster on LOST is Makuta.


QUOTE
Cynics are some of the most naive people on the planet. They hear someone claim things are bad, and they accept it without question.


QUOTE
I'm a realist with an imagination.


QUOTE
I blame Survurlode.


QUOTE
You see a flamer, your response should not be to just flame him back -- you lower yourself to his level if you do.


QUOTE
Let's open that can of worms, as unpleasant as it might be. [...] *I'm not afraid of you, worms!*


QUOTE
"Transformation" can be as simple as a bomb rearranging a building into a debris field.


QUOTE
Far better to be proven wrong than to be wrong without knowing it.


QUOTE
I remember when I was a kid, and I was just playing around, I didn't know this stuff, so I said gas prices were five dollars at my play gas station.

My dad laughed, said gas would never be that expensive.


QUOTE
Toa carrying rifles... as they ride their space shuttles into... Klingon territory...


QUOTE
Kazi [ha]s Rahkshi staffs. (Oooh, Kazi=evil??)


QUOTE
Take an election between two candidates. Obviously, both candidates will get votes. However, one will get more votes, and one will get less. You would be, in this example, voting for the one with less votes (Mr. Olderfanson). You see why the fact that you, one person, did vote for that guy, doesn't prove that he won the election? [...] "Mr. Newerfanson" won the election.


QUOTE
o_O


QUOTE
In general, I do enjoy debates--but I don't enjoy being flamed, no. Nor do I enjoy wasting time when I have tons of PMs I need to reply to and top secret reference projects to work on and all that responding to things that could have been cleared up with more thought before posting, heh. Debates can still get tedious when it seems (please note "seems"!) that a few people refuse to approach them with an open mind.


QUOTE
<_<
>_>
<_>


QUOTE
I didn't even spell "the" right.


QUOTE
Lol. I never said I'm always right! Yeesh, what do I have to do to convince you guys I don't think that? Purposefully take wrong positions or something?


QUOTE
Guess what? I could draw before I learned to write, but does that mean I should get all huffy and insulted at the fact that not everybody shares my particular talent? This is just absurd, isn't it? Did you honestly think that everybody has the same talents and gains proficiency at the same time?



QUOTE
When someone much older than you was a kid, LEGO was wooden toys. [fogie teeth voice]"These newfangled plastic things are insulting! As if there isn't money to be made in good old fashioned woodblock toys!"[/fogie teeth voice]


QUOTE
Can we sing kumbaya yet? Sing it! Koooooooo----oom---bah-----yaaaaaaaaahhhhhh.

Or something... Sing it! You don't even have to agree with me! Just sing it anyways, maaan!

Sing!


QUOTE
Your mistake is that you are thinking in terms of a simplistic "formula" of strength, and thinking that can be used to predict everything. It can't--every situation is different, and sometimes a weak Matoran might catch a glimpse of a passing Rahkshi while a powerful "Toa Ultimaultrasuper" might get blasted to bits when the same Rahkshi actually attacks. You need to be realistic--think in terms of the situation. Stories are based on that--they are a "game of seconds and inches" where dangers both big and small can occur to both powerful and weak people, and how you perform depends on your brains and the time you have to prepare more than your actual power level.


QUOTE
Why did the entirely robotic Bohrok need teeth? Someone explain how that is okay but teeth in Piraka isn't?


QUOTE
Phew. Now, to post, and see if I maxed the text limit out.

Yabo! Hahaha!

_bonesquotes #whatever.2

QUOTE
Thanks X. Thanks D. Thanks X and D. XD


QUOTE
I lazy.


QUOTE
You can make any innovation look bad if you point to the non-innovative ways (the old "normal" ways) and claim they must be followed blindly.


QUOTE
But what I don't get about it is -- why the apparent desire to kill characters off for no reason? In real life you meet tons of people who you will never meet again, and they're not dead. Is that to you a problem? I don't get it -- you'd go insane if you tried to stay in touch with every random old lady that said hi when you were walking the dog...


QUOTE
Yes, my post in this topic is product placement. So sue me.


QUOTE
In addition, high gravity affects spacetime on a fundamental level, slowing time down and bending the spatial brane. Not to be confused with the spacious brain.


QUOTE
It would create a field of electrogravimetry that would pull all nearby matter in and then make it explode. The explosion cloud would take the form of an anchovy.


QUOTE
There's only a slim chance that we exist.


QUOTE
I love taking myself out of context.


QUOTE
I think it's admirable to be careful not to offend people where it makes sense. But at some point, you have to be willing to stand up for yourself and be confident enough that if someone comes at you with an unreasonable accusation, you don't take it.


QUOTE
I think aliens invaded already and have fooled us into thinking they are mere animals who "meow".


QUOTE
Good stories aren't puppet shows. They are tales of life, with realistic characters -- people -- living out their lives, with really minimal "guiding" by the author.


QUOTE
Oh goody, a complainer to blast to oblivion.


QUOTE
To begin with, I disagree strongly with pretending it is "killing off", rather than a serious story being told, with serious themes and life in the story. Characters aren't "killed off". They die.

I find this term somewhat offensive, because it implies the writer kills the character like a TV show host telling a contestant to leave. This is not a game show. It is the events of the storyline that kill the character. That term is merely a psychological shield to avoid the emotion of the moment in the story. IMO, that's a kind of immaturity.


QUOTE
Um.


QUOTE
You can't always get what you want "now now now". Your logic makes no sense -- if you want to know what's in the books, that means you support the books' existence. Yet you apparently want spoilers to go up the day it's out, so in the countries where it is bought, people could just read the spoilers and not buy the book, risking its sales going down and the books ending, and thus no more spoilers for you to read!


QUOTE
Truth = Truth. And nothing else.


QUOTE
I had spammed ten thousand times.


QUOTE
A good comedy is a development, like a story, not a punchline. You start with a situation, and it goes in unexpected, funny ways, which leads into other twists, to a conclusion that often can be more serious than funny, avoiding random cliches and developing enough logic that it doesn't feel like you slapped random nonsense down. Comedies Forum has this bad rap of having a lot of Unfunny Stuff -- I think it's the temptation to write short punchlines drawing on typical one-liner cliches that causes this. The 300 word rule is a good basic start to avoiding that problem.


QUOTE
Dude. My voting precint is a "23". ph34r.gif


QUOTE
And what people are saying about randomosity is true -- I hope that it's not surprising that as a logician, I understand how to be funny (though I won't try in this post ). Logic isn't for Spock who refuses to smile -- you actually need logic in your comedy to make it funny. In my experience, a balance of logic and random nonsense helps -- even logic OF the random nonsense.


QUOTE
I highly recommendate it.


QUOTE
Another mistake a lot of people make is thinking a comedy must be 100% funny -- reality is that that tends to just overwhelm the reader and come off more as spam. If you look at my Survurlode interviews, for example, there is always at least one serious theme that the whole work revolves around. The serious aspects support the humorous, and vice versa.


QUOTE
*strongly approves of the use of the term "bionical"*


QUOTE
Well, my observation has always been the opposite -- more established official facts inspires MORE fan imagination -- at least with imaginative official facts. It was really only once the "gappists" starting complaining, in my observation as a 2003+ member here, about "tons of official facts" that I saw the fanfiction community here really explode with creativity.

Think about it -- imagination feuls imagination. Less imagination doesn't -- it starves imagination.

Search My Blog

_bonesquotes #whatever.3

QUOTE
How much wood would a woodwood wood if a woodwood would would wood?


QUOTE
But my point related to that isn't that I literally think it should be FULLY sun-sized. I'm just saying, there's a whole range, from a little larger than Earth, to a LOT larger, to a TONTONZILLION larger, and it's all possible if the story team just feels like it.


QUOTE
*imagines massive asteriod pulling out a pirate's telescope lol*


QUOTE
GD is NOT for storyline-only discussion. That discussion belongs in S&T.


QUOTE
S&T policies are designed for good reasons, tried, tested, and they work.


QUOTE
Sure I'm sure -- it's Bionicle. Anything's possible.


QUOTE
I never understand these claims -- how do you know what "proportionate" is for that character? He's a fictional character, made out of plastic LEGO parts.

So why get annoyed at it? When you look at a giraffe, do you get annoyed? It makes no sense to me to do so.

Besides, you're setting yourself up for it. Nobody ever told you these characters were supposed to be exactly human.

If you look at an ape, would you say it's done wrong, just because it resembles a human?


QUOTE
I plan not to, but I guess if the site shut down I'd kinda have to, wouldn't I?


QUOTE
...they usually give their jokes when they have the upper hand at the moment, though, or when they've just run into a frustrating difficulty that's not immediately dangerous, which are realistic IMO. When they're in immediate danger, I am not aware that they pause to crack jokes.


QUOTE
I strongly disagree -- everybody capitalizes their name. It's cliche.

(I do not capitalize because 1) I hate being cliche, and 2) it is symbolic of humility.)


QUOTE
I knew you'd say that.


QUOTE
Seriously though, obviously the focus groups like silver, guys -- there's no mystery, those of you portraying it as odd that LEGO keeps using the color. This is how personal taste works -- it differs, and you're gonna find yourself in the minority sometimes. Best get used to it -- that's life.


QUOTE
*lets self dp*


QUOTE
I'm not a soldier, but I know that keeping your sense of humor alive even in dangerous or serious situations can be a huge boon to keeping your sanity.

He who forgets how to laugh forgets how to live.


QUOTE
I heart silver. My favorite metallic. If I had my way, gold would be considered lesser than silver.


QUOTE
The red eye thing is the closest thing you have to evidence, but I could argue that Berix is the traitor for spending time away from the villages, or Ackar is the traitor because his name sounds like Admiral Ackbar and there was a traitor in Star Wars called Darth Vader.


QUOTE
Ultimately it comes down to this for me -- YOU choose to dissapointed or miserable.

If you expected the universe to be perfect, that was your choice, and really not very sensible of you.


QUOTE
If I as a writer were to try to appeal to the attitude you express in your post, I would feel like I am constantly walking on eggshells. Everytime I had a cool idea how to use a character, or more importantly logic told me the character naturally would be involved in something, I would have to worry about whether I shouldn't do it as it might offend someone.

That's a miserable way to write, and I wouldn't wish that on the story team, myself, or anyone.


QUOTE
QUOTE
But one thing. Everyone expects something when they do something.


Very true. For example, when I posted the above post, I expected somebody to reward me with this point, giving me an excuse to discuss it in a separate post so as to give it better focus.


QUOTE
Therefore, the more "things to expect" from a "donation or whatever the heck you want to call it", the more likely we get mooooolaaaaaaaa. Therefore good.

QUOTE
I don't see what the anology has to do with this. "Chevys" (or "Chevies") makes sense. Like "Keets" or Morby or my personal favorite for Makuta -- Terry Mack. "Biological Chronicles" referring to beings makes no sense. And as I typed this, a Chevy ad came on TV. They called it "Chevy." Seriously, exact same time.


QUOTE
QUOTE
Oh my, you're completely irrelevant metaphor makes you look sooo intelligent.


This is obviously getting out of hand, so I guess I have to close it. Also, you failed to answer my question. When a moderator asks you a question, answer it. Capisce? wink.gif

Please do not attack people like that. That is flaming, or at best trolling, both of which are not allowed.


QUOTE
What does a premier member buy?

1) YOUR right to be on here for free.

2) Their right to be on here.

3) PM perks, like poll-making, blogs, etc.

4) Proto.

No matter how you slice it, sending in that money is NOT just buying proto. Even if proto is all they want, they're still buying YOUR right to be on here for free. Yall should be grateful.

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