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What now?

Posted by Toa Nidhiki05 , Aug 16 2013 · 409 views

Well, it appears I (thankfully) missed another blow-up on here. I have no clue what happened, but I assume someone made an insensitive or offensive comment and people took offense to it. If that's the case, (s)he probably deserved it... But that's not the biggest problem I see here.
 
The community is split in half. One half has one view, one half the other. Most people are respectful, but a few on both sides can't stand everyone on the other. That is a major problem. A split of opinion is not a bad things - much good has come from people who have different views, but respect each other and try and get around those differences. Thomas Jefferson and John Adams are a good example, and in more recent times it would be George H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton. No good can come from people - regardless of which side they stand on, which beliefs they endorse, which religion they are - disrespecting huge chunks of society. People who think everyone that disagrees with them is a disgusting bigot who deserves to be belittled, ridiculed, and robbed of the respect that we all as human beings are entitled to are the problem in our society. Being a 'tolerant' person does not give you the excuse to treat others poorly, and being a 'righteous' person does not give you a right to treat others poorly... As a matter of fact, nothing gives you the right to treat others poorly.
 
I can't speak for everyone who believes what I do, but I believe that everyone is equal and that, regardless of how you see someone else's beliefs or lifestyle, they are human and you are just as messed up as they are. I believe we share more in common than not, and I believe we would truly understand our neighbor more if we laid down the pitchforks and started talking about things. Does that mean that you can't disagree with someone, or view something they do as wrong? Of course it doesn't - we are given a moral compass for a reason, and calling out true evil deserves to be done. But it does mean you should treat them as you would treat yourself, your family, your friends, your beliefs, and your country. I'm not perfect, and I mess up on this a lot... But I want to strive to view things that way. And you know what? Nothing can excuse not reaching out to someone. If you disagree with them, guess what? That's life. Nobody is going to think exactly the way you do, and you are going to disagree with people. To me, I think if we could just sit down and talk, we'd find more in common than you might think. We are all human, and most all of us strive to do what is right by our beliefs and our country... Even if it is just that little, that's still a great thing we share. You might have to agree to disagree, but who knows - maybe that could help you, and your opposite, out a little bit. People are different - we're all different - but we are all people.
 
But, it's a shame that such an event could likely never happen here. It pains me to see this community I've been a part of for a third of my life be torn apart by intolerance from people, and that's really all I'm getting at. Can't we just agree to disagree, get on with our lives, and get back to being the best LEGO community on the internet? I miss the days when I could truly say that about our community. I miss the days when, instead of yelling at each other and taking sides and names, we could just talk about our shared interest.
-TN05

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Somebody give this guy an award.

 

You took the words out of my mouth.

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Follow Deevee's rules. 

 

Problem solved.

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~Shockwave~
Aug 16 2013 01:50 PM

Somebody give this guy an award.

 

You took the words out of my mouth.

I second this. 

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I agree with fishers64. Give this guy an award. You literally explained everything I once tried to and I failed to do. You really grasp what I wish every member on this site should.

 

-Rez

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I'm all about not fighting (indeed, it's one of my most deeply-held principles), but I do want to take the time to note that there's a difference between belief/worldview and self/identity.

 

For instance, a belief that degrades and dehumanizes people and contributes to their systematic oppression is an actively harmful thing - to everybody!  To suggest that something that actively harms people deserves respect is awful, and to suggest that it deserves equal credence contributes to its harmful dissemination.  To suggest that it is equal to a personal identity is a false equivalence.

 

In the case here, people who deny others' identities, purposely misgender them, threaten them, try to portray their identities as a "choice" (and a "wrong" one at that), or try to present themselves as the arbiter of what someone else is - that's wrong.  That's harmful.  That's bullying.

 

I don't think that deserves "respect." 

 

Make sense?  No ill-will intended; just trying to explain!

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-Windrider-
Aug 16 2013 02:02 PM

I miss the days when I could truly say that about our community. I miss the days when, instead of yelling at each other and taking sides and names, we could just talk about our shared interest.


The issues were always present; they and people's voices on them were just repressed out of fear and sometimes even by site policies. The feeling of community was almost surreal and illusory, looking back. It's truly a good thing that people are finding the courage to announce, defend, and live their identities on BZPower, and for that I don't want to go back to the old days. We just need to make sure that it is safe for everyone, and then perhaps we can go forward instead of longing for other days.

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Toa Nidhiki05
Aug 16 2013 02:04 PM

 

I'm all about not fighting (indeed, it's one of my most deeply-held principles), but I do want to take the time to note that there's a difference between belief/worldview and self/identity.

 

For instance, a belief that degrades and dehumanizes people and contributes to their systematic oppression is an actively harmful thing - to everybody!  To suggest that something that actively harms people deserves respect is awful, and to suggest that it deserves equal credence contributes to its harmful dissemination.  To suggest that it is equal to a personal identity is a false equivalence.

In the case here, people who deny others' identities, purposely misgender them, threaten them, try to portray their identities as a "choice" (and a "wrong" one at that), or try to present themselves as the arbiter of what someone else is - that's wrong.  That's harmful.  That's bullying.

 

I don't think that deserves "respect."

 

 

I don't disagree with you that some ideas (ie. Nazism, racism, sexism, bigotry, etc.) are bad, and those bad ideas need to be discredited and rejected. I just don't think all people who believe those bad ideas need to discredited and rejected. That's what I'm trying to get at.
 

 

Make sense?  No ill-will intended; just trying to explain!

 

 

 

I very much appreciate your respectful comment. :)

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I don't disagree with you that some ideas (ie. Nazism, racism, sexism, bigotry, etc.) are bad, and those bad ideas need to be discredited and rejected. I just don't think all people who believe those bad ideas need to discredited and rejected. That's what I'm trying to get at.


Right, all people are equal and should be treated as such. At the same time, all people are responsible and should be held accountable for their words and actions, and if those words and actions are harmful, then that person should be called out and held accountable.  Not as a personal attack but as a rebuking and refuting of their harmful words/actions.  And I think it's important of us, as a community to understand what sorts of things are harmful.

 

I just want to be clear about this because you seem to be conflating a person's beliefs, actions, and self in some places here!  Again, no ill-will intended.

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The community is split in half. One half has one view, one half the other. Most people are respectful, but a few on both sides can't stand everyone on the other. That is a major problem. A split of opinion is not a bad things - much good has come from people who have different views, but respect each other and try and get around those differences.

A community split on opinions is fine. If half the people here thought the original Toa Nuva were the best and the other half liked the Phantoka and Mistika better, those are two perfectly valid opinions that two groups can have.

That's not what we have here. There are people who currently are not treated equally and want the same rights, respect, consideration, etc, as everyone else. There are others who think they should not have those rights or that "disagree" with who they are. That latter group is NOT welcome to express those views on BZPower and will be punished if they do so.

Until people realize they cannot disrespect others and be hurtful or even hateful, we are still going to have a problem. I think many of us are doing the best we can to try to help things along, but it's certainly not going to happen overnight.

And with that said, I think there's no need for further discussion as I already see things are getting a little heated.

EDIT: As an aside, I did not delete any comments in this entry as nothing was breaking the rules.
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Age: 18
Gender: Male
Location: North Carolina
Language: American English
Religion: Christian
Orientation: Not interested
Political View: Libertarian-conservative or conservative-libertarian
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