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Those tags!

 

My body is also Reggie. I also legally changed my name to Reggie.

Haha, Nintendo hasn't even gone yet =P. Regardless, I think Ubisoft did pretty decent, all things considered. Sony's was good too, but definitely petered off towards the end.

This gif is so accurate it's hilarious.

 

Though the fact that both Sony and Microsoft have come up with viable answers to WiiU's tablet, I am worried about it....

Haha so agreed.

I quite liked Sony's presentation, but if there's any Zelda news tomorrow, it's all over.

Where's Ubisoft?

This gif = "these other guys didn't show games that are in my wheelhouse therefore they suck"

 

On the other hand, Halo, Gears of War, Splinter Cell, Forza Horizon, Assassin's Creed, Need For Speed Most Wanted (aka Burnout Paradise 2) are all way up in my wheelhouse. Combine that with Microsoft putting out a serious throwdown to the WiiU tablet controller with SmartGlass and Sony showing off some pretty decent game footage (though seriously sony, only show game footage, when you don't your conference is a living nightmare). and I honestly don't see what the issues are other than you just don't care for their type of games.

you just don't care for their type of games.

This applies to every single person who treats E3 as a competition.

This gif = "these other guys didn't show games that are in my wheelhouse therefore they suck"

 

On the other hand, Halo, Gears of War, Splinter Cell, Forza Horizon, Assassin's Creed, Need For Speed Most Wanted (aka Burnout Paradise 2) are all way up in my wheelhouse. Combine that with Microsoft putting out a serious throwdown to the WiiU tablet controller with SmartGlass and Sony showing off some pretty decent game footage (though seriously sony, only show game footage, when you don't your conference is a living nightmare). and I honestly don't see what the issues are other than you just don't care for their type of games.

 

Halo = Metroid Prime ripoff where you fight bionicles

Gears = never looked interesting, it is pretty much MANLY TESTOSTERONE FILLED SHOOTER

Splinter Cell = MGS

Forza = Boring racer where cars don't even get dented

Assassin's Creed = This one actually looked cool and different

NfS = Another boring racer although this one looks better than Forza

 

SmartGlass looks like more of a gimmick than anything Nintendo has shown. Not really a throw down there. The concept is cool, but so was the concept for Kinect. And we all know how that worked out.

 

Sony's conference showed they they have no support for the failing Vita and that they love the horrible looking Wonderbook. Last of Us did look pretty good. Also even Sony tagged PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale(This name is horrible) with the tags Super Smash Brothers.

 

I love gaming and I do try other types of games, Microsoft, Sony, and EA didn't really show anything too good. The Microsoft press conference was honestly one of the worst I've ever seen.

 

Nondescript Action Figure has WON E3. Just sayin'.

 

Nondescript Action Figure better be in the next iteration of Brawl. Otherwise, I am disappoint.

James William, on , said:

 

This gif = "these other guys didn't show games that are in my wheelhouse therefore they suck"

 

On the other hand, Halo, Gears of War, Splinter Cell, Forza Horizon, Assassin's Creed, Need For Speed Most Wanted (aka Burnout Paradise 2) are all way up in my wheelhouse. Combine that with Microsoft putting out a serious throwdown to the WiiU tablet controller with SmartGlass and Sony showing off some pretty decent game footage (though seriously sony, only show game footage, when you don't your conference is a living nightmare). and I honestly don't see what the issues are other than you just don't care for their type of games.

 

Halo = Metroid Prime ripoff where you fight bionicles

Gears = never looked interesting, it is pretty much MANLY TESTOSTERONE FILLED SHOOTER

Splinter Cell = MGS

Forza = Boring racer where cars don't even get dented

Assassin's Creed = This one actually looked cool and different

NfS = Another boring racer although this one looks better than Forza

 

SmartGlass looks like more of a gimmick than anything Nintendo has shown. Not really a throw down there. The concept is cool, but so was the concept for Kinect. And we all know how that worked out.

 

Sony's conference showed they they have no support for the failing Vita and that they love the horrible looking Wonderbook. Last of Us did look pretty good. Also even Sony tagged PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale(This name is horrible) with the tags Super Smash Brothers.

 

I love gaming and I do try other types of games, Microsoft, Sony, and EA didn't really show anything too good. The Microsoft press conference was honestly one of the worst I've ever seen.

 

Nondescript Action Figure has WON E3. Just sayin'.

 

 

 

So having a few aesthetic cues from Metroid Prime now makes Halo 4 (which still looks very much like a Halo game which is nothing like Metroid Prime) means it's a clone. Sure, that makes sense.

Yeah, Gears is pretty dumb, but it's also dumb fun. Sometimes I just want to shut my brain off and have a little dumb fun.

Splinter Cell didn't give off a MGS vibe to me, but since when is riffing on a highly successful franchise and perhaps improving it's formula ever a bad thing? I mean, this is like arguing every platformer ever is a Mario clone and is therefore stupid.

Forza has very much always had car damage, it's been one of the major components of the franchise since it first came out. I also take it you haven't looked up anything else on it beyond what was shown at the conference which was unfortunately not a very good look at the game. It's an open world racer with heavy emphasis on player interaction, car culture, driving the open road, dichotomy between day and night and so on. It's a little more beyond "boring racer"

I take it you just don't have a thing for racing games, but then again, NFS looks like a spiritual successor to Burnout Paradise which is one of my favorite games this generation.

 

So, showing a video where a clearly overblown representation of a gamer uses a touch screen to view the exact same content on his tv to find help on a game (of which he had to exit the game to do instead of just hoping on a separate interface on the touchscreen) and then video chatting (with the video again duplicated on both the tv and the controller screen) with someone to get help isn't gimmicky? That's about as fanboy as fanboy gets. Microsoft at least showed some practical applications like resuming a movie from where you were watching it, or having a companion piece to a tv show or being able to view in game stats and manage game invites and party controls.

 

I agree that the Vita is dead in the water and wonderbook was such a downer. I also agree that Playstation All Stars looks like a way less fun Smash Brothers. But Sony showed off a potentially interesting new IP from Quantic Dream (though we'll see how that pans out) and like was said Last of Us definitely has some merit. I'm not really big on Sony properties though so God of War did nothing for me.

 

Overall though, I don't understand why there is some need to attack the games I like when I did nothing of the sort to you. I pointed out that while you may not be interested in them, other people, like myself, are. I didn't even say anything bad about Nintendo other than SmartGlass seems to do a lot of the promised things the Nintendo solution does but seems to do them better and without requiring a horrifying clunky controller give I can use devices I already own or plan on purchasing in the future.

 

The whole point I was trying to make is that your making a very qualitative statement so definitively based on your point of view that favors products from Nintendo over others. I make my point of view that favors 3rd party and Microsoft products so in my perspective, while there were some low points during the MS conference (I don't need an internet browser on my console, thank you very much) it satisfied me by highlighting some games they have in the pipe that appeal to me. Thusly in my eyes, it is very much far, far away from the worst conference ever (that was Sony when they announced the PS3 price, I mean come on, everyone knows that's the worst presser ever).

 

In the end though, I realize that as long as Nintendo shows off a new Mario and promises a new Zelda will come eventually, they'll be a winner in your book, just like if Microsoft shows off a new Halo and promises me a new Gears of War they'll be a winner in my book.

Forza = Boring racer where cars don't even get dented

Uh? I've played the first Forza, and things get seriously broken at times; including breaking your steering and such. Did you have damage off?

 

So, showing a video where a clearly overblown representation of a gamer uses a touch screen to view the exact same content on his tv to find help on a game (of which he had to exit the game to do instead of just hoping on a separate interface on the touchscreen) and then video chatting (with the video again duplicated on both the tv and the controller screen) with someone to get help isn't gimmicky? That's about as fanboy as fanboy gets. Microsoft at least showed some practical applications like resuming a movie from where you were watching it, or having a companion piece to a tv show or being able to view in game stats and manage game invites and party controls.

Uh...

 

Okay, one, you more than likely don't have to exit the game at all, if it's anything like the 3DS; just bring up the home menu, and navigate to the specific thing(Hence why he's at the same spot moments after he finds the info, and again after the video call), and activate it that way.

 

Two, what would you want on the touch screen during the call? It's only duplicating the info so that you can have the controller elsewhere during a call, and not necessarily standing near the TV like it showed. Because in those cases, looking up at the TV would be rather awkward, because all people would see is your neck... And showing the call only on the touch screen in that situation would be just horrid, since it's be far away(Take that image during the call of the TV screen compared to the Pad screen to be a typical situation, from the same distance. That is just too small of a screen to see from across the room.). Therefore, it's duplicated, so it doesn't matter which was you take the call. Plus, everyone knows that's obviously exaggerated, as there's many, more detailed, ways to get help. It's just showing the different aspects of the Miiverse in the quickest way possible; gameplay.

 

Third, you say that last part as if that's not exactly what the Wii U's controller does. ' Think of the Wii U controller as either a way to keep playing without your TV, or alternatively, an undocked DS bottom screen, with the TV being the top screen. Therefore, those stats, invites, and companion pieces are all things that could theoretically be found on the Wii U, and has been shown to at least be considered, thanks to last year's Zelda tech demo, which showed, very obviously I might say, the touch screen showing a map or item screen, at that time.

I think if you're still defending everything Nintendo does after the Wii, a games console which has had a maximum of 5 noteworthy games in its life time, you're doing something wrong.

 

I'm a massive Nintendo fanboy, but since the Gamecube they've sucked. Last year's E3 was alright, because they showed the Wii U and its HD graphics and the idea of improved online play etc, but it's nothing really noteworthy because it's just showing where Nintendo should have been years ago. 360 and PS3 have already done all this stuff. The Wii is last generation, the Wii U is current generation. So when MS and Sony release their new consoles, Nintendo will be lagging behind again.

 

I want a new Zelda, but when I say that, I mean a NEW Zelda. I always criticised CoD for releasing the same game over and over, but Nintendo has basically done that with Zelda since OoT. It needs to return to its roots - use the power of the Wii U to give us a game the size of Skyrim, avoiding linear paths and avoiding pointlessly collection 3 things, then another 3 things, then finishing the game. Skyrim is more what Zelda should be like, because it's almost a modern day Zelda 1.

 

I wouldn't complain about a new Mario Galaxy and Starfox (wasn't there talk of a Starfox/Metroid crossover?), but we need some new games as well. And not Wii U Sports. Something mature and clever, but not 'mature' in terms of blood and swearing. Keep it clever and original and they'll be on to a winner.

 

I have to agree that GoW is a terrible game series which highlights everything that's wrong with the industry. As does CoD. Halo, though, is actually quite enjoyable. I wasn't a fan, and thought it just like every other FPS that overcrowds the market, but it's actually fun. And the online play isn't even that complicated, but is a distinct area where Nintendo fail, so I don't know how you can really say NINTENDO ARE GREAT, HALO SUCKS, because Nintendo could learn a lot from Halo. Also, Halo 4 seems to be more of the same, and Halo 1 came out before Metroid Prime, so to say that it's a rip off of Metroid Prime is quite silly.

 

It's good that the Wii U is getting more 3rd party support. AC3 and Arkham City releasing will put the console alongside the current generation, and perhaps show Wii fanboys that there are better games than Skyward Sword. I'd also like a focus on downloadable titles. Bastion, Limbo, Braid, Super Meat Boy, Trials HD are some of the best games available on 360, IMO. You can say 360 sucks because it's always just CoD and GoW, but actually when you look at the vast number of more obscure (and IMO better) games, you realise that the Wii is missing out on a LOT.

 

Nintendo's position in gaming right now is best epitomised by that half hour pre-E3 presentation. Specifically, the part where a significant amount of time was devoted to explaining how analogue sticks work. *sigh*

 

I want Nintendo to PULL IT OUT OF THE BAG today. For people who think the Wii U is a gimmick and that Nintendo do nothing new to be TURNED. And finally stop the company being basically a joke, and I only want that out of love.

 

Also I own all three main consoles plus a 3DS, SO THEREFORE I MUST BE RIGHT ON EVERYTHING.

 

- Tilius

I think if you're still defending everything Nintendo does after the Wii, a games console which has had a maximum of 5 noteworthy games in its life time, you're doing something wrong.

Tales of Symphonia 2

Goldeneye(Stupid game was enhanced ported to XBox 360 and PS3 later, but it's still good on the Wii)

Monster Hunter Tri

Tatsunoko vs. Capcom(For people who like Fighters)

 

Those are just the third party games I can think of that I've played that I liked. Then you add in...

 

The two Zeldas.(I liked Skyward Sword, just because it's different doesn't mean it's not good, or people don't like it.)

Mario Galaxy/2.

Mario Kart Wii

Metroid Prime 3(And Other M, if you like cutscene based games. =P)

Fire Emblems

Xenoblade

Heck, throw in Animal Crossing, might not be a Hardcore player's game, but it's still noteworthy to some people, the same way Harvest Moon's managed to survive for many years.

 

Not even counting sequels in that, there's more than five noteworthy games in the first party category alone. Did Nintendo have a ton of Shovelware this gen? Sure, because it sold the most consoles(And still is, until the other two catch up simply because of the Wii U being around). Same reason the DS has gotten so many shovelware titles, but the DS also managed to strike a balance, gaining mass amounts of RPGs in the process.

 

I want a new Zelda, but when I say that, I mean a NEW Zelda. I always criticised CoD for releasing the same game over and over, but Nintendo has basically done that with Zelda since OoT. It needs to return to its roots - use the power of the Wii U to give us a game the size of Skyrim, avoiding linear paths and avoiding pointlessly collection 3 things, then another 3 things, then finishing the game. Skyrim is more what Zelda should be like, because it's almost a modern day Zelda 1.

The problem with that line of thinking, however, is then that Zelda has not been Zelda since the first(Arguably the second) game, since LttP onward, aside for the handheld games, has revolved around 'find 3 objects, plot twist, find 3-7 more objects'. Even Wind Waker, though it was more 'find 3 objects, find 2 more objects, find EIGHT more objects!'.

 

The only break from that formula, aside for the handheld series, is Majora's Mask, surprise surprise. However, it's also the one that gets annoyance, because of it's time restriction.

 

This is all coming from someone who obsesses over Zelda as much as Megaman.

 

I wouldn't complain about a new Mario Galaxy and Starfox (wasn't there talk of a Starfox/Metroid crossover?), but we need some new games as well. And not Wii U Sports. Something mature and clever, but not 'mature' in terms of blood and swearing. Keep it clever and original and they'll be on to a winner.

Well, didn't Miyamoto say he was working on new IPs? We might get one still... I want awesome new series as much as the next person. =P

 

I have to agree that GoW is a terrible game series which highlights everything that's wrong with the industry. As does CoD. Halo, though, is actually quite enjoyable. I wasn't a fan, and thought it just like every other FPS that overcrowds the market, but it's actually fun. And the online play isn't even that complicated, but is a distinct area where Nintendo fail, so I don't know how you can really say NINTENDO ARE GREAT, HALO SUCKS, because Nintendo could learn a lot from Halo. Also, Halo 4 seems to be more of the same, and Halo 1 came out before Metroid Prime, so to say that it's a rip off of Metroid Prime is quite silly.

Nintendo's doing better in the online department recently, I must comment. KI's gameplay is almost totally lag free, and any lag is from distance based equations, and the fact that not everyone has uber high speed internet. Still. And since the Wii U's supposed to be geared more toward better online than either the DS, the Wii, and maybe even the 3DS...

 

It's good that the Wii U is getting more 3rd party support. AC3 and Arkham City releasing will put the console alongside the current generation, and perhaps show Wii fanboys that there are better games than Skyward Sword.

That's a low blow. =/ Sure, there might be better games, but honestly, is Skyward Sword really that bad, that it can't be considered a good game on it's own merits, without being compared and being called bad in comparison? It fixed flaws that TP had, flawed and gigantic overworld with a distinct lack of enemies. It's fix was simple: Remove the overworld, remove the problem. In fact, in what really is the new overworld, they basically stuffed as many enemies as possible into it, putting in more enemies than has been seen in a non dungeon area since, I want to say, Majora's Mask. Would it have been nice to see the Overworld? Sure. But, on that note, it sounded from the backstory that there were still places that were ravaged by The Imprisoned, which is why you could only go to those three places; and really, Skyward Sword was all about storyline, right from the start, it's just no-one really cared, since it was new, and different, and had an awesome graphics style.

 

I'd also like a focus on downloadable titles. Bastion, Limbo, Braid, Super Meat Boy, Trials HD are some of the best games available on 360, IMO. You can say 360 sucks because it's always just CoD and GoW, but actually when you look at the vast number of more obscure (and IMO better) games, you realise that the Wii is missing out on a LOT.

I agree on the download games; however... I'd argue that Nintendo's trying to fix it, considering they've gotten two of the great PC Indie Retro games; Cave Story and VVVVVV. So, really, who knows what the future has in store for the eShop, and Whatever-The-Wii-U-Shop-Is-Called.

 

Nintendo's position in gaming right now is best epitomised by that half hour pre-E3 presentation. Specifically, the part where a significant amount of time was devoted to explaining how analogue sticks work. *sigh*

About two seconds is a significant amount of time? It was mostly just going over the differences between the Circle Pad and the Analogue stick it is now getting.

 

I want Nintendo to PULL IT OUT OF THE BAG today. For people who think the Wii U is a gimmick and that Nintendo do nothing new to be TURNED. And finally stop the company being basically a joke, and I only want that out of love.

I agree; though not so much on the joke part, I think they stopped that about... *Looks at watch* September or so 2011. Given that this year, more or less, is the year of the 3DS, considering all the awesome stuff we're getting. =)

 

Also I own all three main consoles plus a 3DS, SO THEREFORE I MUST BE RIGHT ON EVERYTHING.

Two out of four ain't bad for me, however, I've played both of the predecessors for the PS3 and Xbox 360, so I'm not that far out of touch. Which marks the funny coincidence that I never played the Gamecube for a significant amount of time, compared to the Xbox or PS2... Yet, the Wii is the only next gen console I have. Go figure. xD

So having a few aesthetic cues from Metroid Prime now makes Halo 4 (which still looks very much like a Halo game which is nothing like Metroid Prime) means it's a clone. Sure, that makes sense.

Hence why many places on the interwebs are calling it Halo Prime. They are calling it that for a reason.

 

Splinter Cell didn't give off a MGS vibe to me, but since when is riffing on a highly successful franchise and perhaps improving it's formula ever a bad thing? I mean, this is like arguing every platformer ever is a Mario clone and is therefore stupid.

Looked like MGS to me, only with more killing.

 

Forza has very much always had car damage, it's been one of the major components of the franchise since it first came out. I also take it you haven't looked up anything else on it beyond what was shown at the conference which was unfortunately not a very good look at the game. It's an open world racer with heavy emphasis on player interaction, car culture, driving the open road, dichotomy between day and night and so on. It's a little more beyond "boring racer"

I take it you just don't have a thing for racing games, but then again, NFS looks like a spiritual successor to Burnout Paradise which is one of my favorite games this generation.

I may have been wrong about Forza, I honestly don't care enough to go look it up. I'm not a fan of racing with cars, there have been very few racing games that have been as fun as Mario Kart for me.

 

So, showing a video where a clearly overblown representation of a gamer uses a touch screen to view the exact same content on his tv to find help on a game (of which he had to exit the game to do instead of just hoping on a separate interface on the touchscreen) and then video chatting (with the video again duplicated on both the tv and the controller screen) with someone to get help isn't gimmicky? That's about as fanboy as fanboy gets. Microsoft at least showed some practical applications like resuming a movie from where you were watching it, or having a companion piece to a tv show or being able to view in game stats and manage game invites and party controls.

Actually that does seem practical, it makes it so that discussing the game is only a button away. Not to mention this will be available on multiple devices. Resuming a movie from where you were watching it? I've had that for years. It is nothing new. And as for a companion to a TV show, for that, when I'm watching a TV show, I'd rather watch the show and focus on it. I don't need a companion too a show.

 

Overall though, I don't understand why there is some need to attack the games I like when I did nothing of the sort to you. I pointed out that while you may not be interested in them, other people, like myself, are. I didn't even say anything bad about Nintendo other than SmartGlass seems to do a lot of the promised things the Nintendo solution does but seems to do them better and without requiring a horrifying clunky controller give I can use devices I already own or plan on purchasing in the future.

Honestly, I was giving you my initial reactions and comments on them. And I have people who were watching with me who can back that up. How do you know the controller is clunky? It looks pretty useful and comfortable to me.

 

 

I think if you're still defending everything Nintendo does after the Wii, a games console which has had a maximum of 5 noteworthy games in its life time, you're doing something wrong.

 

I'm a massive Nintendo fanboy, but since the Gamecube they've sucked. Last year's E3 was alright, because they showed the Wii U and its HD graphics and the idea of improved online play etc, but it's nothing really noteworthy because it's just showing where Nintendo should have been years ago. 360 and PS3 have already done all this stuff. The Wii is last generation, the Wii U is current generation. So when MS and Sony release their new consoles, Nintendo will be lagging behind again.

Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Donkey Kong Country Returns, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, Mario Kart, Xenoblade Chronicles, Kirby's Return to Dreamland, Kirby's Epic Yarn, No More Heroes 1 and 2, Punch-Out!!, Metroid: Other M, Epic Mickey, New Super Mario Bros., and MadWorld would all like to say hi.

 

The Wii had some fantastic games, if you knew where to look.

 

I want a new Zelda, but when I say that, I mean a NEW Zelda. I always criticised CoD for releasing the same game over and over, but Nintendo has basically done that with Zelda since OoT. It needs to return to its roots - use the power of the Wii U to give us a game the size of Skyrim, avoiding linear paths and avoiding pointlessly collection 3 things, then another 3 things, then finishing the game. Skyrim is more what Zelda should be like, because it's almost a modern day Zelda 1.

So... you want Skyrim. I like my Zelda how it is.

 

I wouldn't complain about a new Mario Galaxy and Starfox (wasn't there talk of a Starfox/Metroid crossover?), but we need some new games as well. And not Wii U Sports. Something mature and clever, but not 'mature' in terms of blood and swearing. Keep it clever and original and they'll be on to a winner.

Agreed that they need new games.

 

I have to agree that GoW is a terrible game series which highlights everything that's wrong with the industry. As does CoD. Halo, though, is actually quite enjoyable. I wasn't a fan, and thought it just like every other FPS that overcrowds the market, but it's actually fun. And the online play isn't even that complicated, but is a distinct area where Nintendo fail, so I don't know how you can really say NINTENDO ARE GREAT, HALO SUCKS, because Nintendo could learn a lot from Halo. Also, Halo 4 seems to be more of the same, and Halo 1 came out before Metroid Prime, so to say that it's a rip off of Metroid Prime is quite silly.

I'm talking about the new Halo having elements of Metroid Prime. Not Halo 1.

 

It's good that the Wii U is getting more 3rd party support. AC3 and Arkham City releasing will put the console alongside the current generation, and perhaps show Wii fanboys that there are better games than Skyward Sword. I'd also like a focus on downloadable titles. Bastion, Limbo, Braid, Super Meat Boy, Trials HD are some of the best games available on 360, IMO. You can say 360 sucks because it's always just CoD and GoW, but actually when you look at the vast number of more obscure (and IMO better) games, you realise that the Wii is missing out on a LOT.

I know many people who loved Skyward Sword. Nintendo has drasaticly changed their view on downloadable games, the 3DS eShop is a good example of that.

 

 

I want Nintendo to PULL IT OUT OF THE BAG today. For people who think the Wii U is a gimmick and that Nintendo do nothing new to be TURNED. And finally stop the company being basically a joke, and I only want that out of love.

So, massive sales of the Wii and DS make it a joke? Huh, that MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

 

Not to mention the fact that the 3DS has been doing much better. People may have critisiced the price drop, but it seems like that was the best move.

 

Nondescript Action Figure better be in the next iteration of Brawl. Otherwise, I am disappoint.

YES.

Tales of Symphonia 2

Goldeneye(Stupid game was enhanced ported to XBox 360 and PS3 later, but it's still good on the Wii)

Monster Hunter Tri

Tatsunoko vs. Capcom(For people who like Fighters)

None of those are really going to be remembered of the best of this generation though, are they?

The two Zeldas.(I liked Skyward Sword, just because it's different doesn't mean it's not good, or people don't like it.)

Mario Galaxy/2.

Mario Kart Wii

Metroid Prime 3(And Other M, if you like cutscene based games. =P)

Fire Emblems

Xenoblade

Heck, throw in Animal Crossing, might not be a Hardcore player's game, but it's still noteworthy to some people, the same way Harvest Moon's managed to survive for many years.

 

Not even counting sequels in that

But you did count sequels.....

 

On SS, it's different but not good. It's linear and dull. Would've been acceptable on the N64, but not now. TP is better, but still just trying to rehash OoT rather than do anything new.

I'll give you the Mario Galaxy games, though.

Mario Kart Wii is again more of the same, and the online play, which such a game needs, is meh.

Metroid Prime 3, I've never really cared for. It doesn't match up to games like Halo, though.

Fire Emblem and Xenoblade I have no comment on, but I don't see them as the pinnacle of this generation.

Animal Crossing was a rehash of the DS version, so meh.

The problem with that line of thinking, however, is then that Zelda has not been Zelda since the first(Arguably the second) game, since LttP onward, aside for the handheld games, has revolved around 'find 3 objects, plot twist, find 3-7 more objects'. Even Wind Waker, though it was more 'find 3 objects, find 2 more objects, find EIGHT more objects!'.

 

The only break from that formula, aside for the handheld series, is Majora's Mask, surprise surprise. However, it's also the one that gets annoyance, because of it's time restriction.

But the fact is that the series has really not progressed since OoT. I mean, Metal Gear Solid has had some clear change and development, but Zelda remains basically the same.

Nintendo's doing better in the online department recently, I must comment. KI's gameplay is almost totally lag free, and any lag is from distance based equations, and the fact that not everyone has uber high speed internet. Still. And since the Wii U's supposed to be geared more toward better online than either the DS, the Wii, and maybe even the 3DS...

I'd hope that Nintendo's home console can surpass the 3DS's still quite rubbish online. It needs to at least match Xbox Live, and I really doubt whether it will.

That's a low blow. =/ Sure, there might be better games, but honestly, is Skyward Sword really that bad, that it can't be considered a good game on it's own merits, without being compared and being called bad in comparison? It fixed flaws that TP had, flawed and gigantic overworld with a distinct lack of enemies. It's fix was simple: Remove the overworld, remove the problem.

That's terrible logic. Bad multiplayer? Remove the multiplayer. Bad soundtrack? Remove the soundtrack. You see? It's not a fix.

Would it have been nice to see the Overworld? Sure. But, on that note, it sounded from the backstory that there were still places that were ravaged by The Imprisoned, which is why you could only go to those three places

Writing an excuse for it into the story doesn't make it okay.... 'There's no soundtrack because everyone got deafened'. It's basically the same thing.

Skyward Sword was all about storyline, right from the start, it's just no-one really cared, since it was new, and different, and had an awesome graphics style.

Please go and play Mass Effect. That is a game that's story-driven. Heck, even Portal 2. SS makes you travel from dungeon to dungeon for vague reasons, because it tells you you need to collect whatever. It is not an example of good video game storytelling. It just isn't.

 

This is my problem, see. If the Wii had stuff like Mass Effect, people who only own a Wii would still be able to know what makes a good game. They'd realise SS has a distinctly average story when compared to proper story-driven games.

About two seconds is a significant amount of time? It was mostly just going over the differences between the Circle Pad and the Analogue stick it is now getting

It's two seconds longer than any other company would need when showing their new controller.

I agree; though not so much on the joke part, I think they stopped that about... *Looks at watch* September or so 2011. Given that this year, more or less, is the year of the 3DS, considering all the awesome stuff we're getting.

Well the fact that barely anyone I speak to takes Nintendo seriously, and that the 3DS launch has to be one of the worst ever, Nintendo is still definitely a joke. You don't shake off something like the Wii that quickly. Also 'all the awesome stuff' basically amounts to Luigi's Mansion 2, and new Paper Mario, doesn't it?

 

Meanwhile, on proper consoles, we have Dead Space 3, Bioshock Infinite, Assassin's Creed 3, The Last of Us, Watch Dogs etc. It simply doesn't compare.

Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Donkey Kong Country Returns, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, Mario Kart, Xenoblade Chronicles, Kirby's Return to Dreamland, Kirby's Epic Yarn, No More Heroes 1 and 2, Punch-Out!!, Metroid: Other M, Epic Mickey, New Super Mario Bros., and MadWorld would all like to say hi.

 

The Wii had some fantastic games, if you knew where to look.

Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are the only 'fantastic' games. I might give way to Metroid Prime and DKCR a little, but that's it. I'm not sure why Epic Mickey and Kirby games are on that list at all. I'm talking proper memorable games that people will look back upon as the best of the time. Only Mario Galaxy could manage that, from that list.

So... you want Skyrim. I like my Zelda how it is.

But I don't. I want a vast overworld, with a story that goes beyond GO COLLECT THESE THINGS, that doesn't hold your hand all the way through, and that gives you a bit more freedom. Those are the only similarities with Skyrim I want, because those are the things a proper, current-gen Zelda needs.

I know many people who loved Skyward Sword. Nintendo has drasaticly changed their view on downloadable games, the 3DS eShop is a good example of that.

It seems that most people who loved Skyward Sword haven't experienced that much outside of the Wii. Because SS feels like an N64 game in comparison.

So, massive sales of the Wii and DS make it a joke? Huh, that MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

Oh, so the more people who like something, the better it is?

 

It's a joke in the context of gaming. It's not a joke to families who enjoy their Wii fit sessions, but for those of us who enjoyed the N64/Gamecube period of Nintendo being amazing, it sucks.

Not to mention the fact that the 3DS has been doing much better. People may have critisiced the price drop, but it seems like that was the best move.

The best move would've been ensuring it had quality games at launch. And solid online capabilities. And a second analogue stick. But apparently 3D is more important. I accept that it's on the road to recovery, but there's no avoiding how awful it started out. Assuming Nintendo announce big plans for it today, then it'll be fine. But if they leave it as 'Luigi's Mansion and Paper Mario are coming out', then it won't be so good.

 

- Tilius

SO I HEARD GAMES ARE FUN :3

None of those are really going to be remembered of the best of this generation though, are they?

 

The problem with this argument, is that you're comparing what was initially totally different systems, before the Move came around, and the Kinect... Did whatever it's doing now. You said there weren't five memorable games period; I listed multiple Third Party games that consistently make recommendation lists. They might not all rank high compared to other systems, but, again, I didn't bring other systems into the equation, and the initial point didn't either.

 

But you did count sequels.....

 

On SS, it's different but not good. It's linear and dull. Would've been acceptable on the N64, but not now. TP is better, but still just trying to rehash OoT rather than do anything new.

I'll give you the Mario Galaxy games, though.

Mario Kart Wii is again more of the same, and the online play, which such a game needs, is meh.

Metroid Prime 3, I've never really cared for. It doesn't match up to games like Halo, though.

Fire Emblem and Xenoblade I have no comment on, but I don't see them as the pinnacle of this generation.

Animal Crossing was a rehash of the DS version, so meh.

Yeah, I was counting the different lines; counting sequels, there's about 8 or 9 in that list; without it, about 6, if I recall correctly.

 

SS wouldn't have been possible on the N64, no matter what respect you look at it. For example, the Ghirahim fights; even taking out motion controls, Ghirahim fights beyond what anything on the N64 could hope to do, he's just too unpredictable. And then there'd be more fog, and a worse frame rate, and smaller areas that would require loading more, hidden loading or not. TP I'll admit was in a way rehashing OoT(Or, at least it's map); but it wasn't at the same time; it didn't even touch on time travel; I'd say it was closer to LttP; just shorter, and that's not a good thing. =/

 

When'd MKWii come out again? I only played it last year, but I'm thinking '08, '09... The timing is important to my response. =P

 

... Did... you really just say that? Halo can really compare to the exploration meets shooter gameplay of the Metroid Prime series?

 

FE is one of the best strategy games I've seen, though admittedly I haven't played the Wii entries yet; and I haven't played Xenoblade either, but I've heard it's a very good RPG, up there with others... And arguably better than the Final Fantasy of this gen. =P

 

Also; about that last thing... If you say AC:CF is a rehash of Wild World; then Wild World is a rehash of AC Gamecube, which is a rehash of the N64 version. The problem with that line of thinking, however, is that each iteration adds new differences; CF might be closer to Wild World than GC, but it still has it's differences, and too big of a deviation would probably not allow the data transfer, though they are overhauling the series for the 3DS.

 

But the fact is that the series has really not progressed since OoT. I mean, Metal Gear Solid has had some clear change and development, but Zelda remains basically the same.

The fact is that it hasn't really progressed since LttP. I love LttP as much as the next guy; but story/core gameplay-wise, it's stayed the same, just gotten grander, and more 3Dish. And yet, in a way, all these current changes are the logical evolution of the original Zelda, just the same as Megaman Zero's stages and such are the logical evolution of the original Megaman Series.

 

I'd hope that Nintendo's home console can surpass the 3DS's still quite rubbish online. It needs to at least match Xbox Live, and I really doubt whether it will.

... You have played MK7 and KI:U online; right? Actually, scratch the first part, I know you've played it online, since I've faced you before in that... If they could effectively merge the MK7 communities with KI's CPU takeover if you drop out, there'd be no problems. Aside from the occasional error code, but really, is there anything that doesn't give occasional error codes, or, you know, gets hacked?

 

That's terrible logic. Bad multiplayer? Remove the multiplayer. Bad soundtrack? Remove the soundtrack. You see? It's not a fix.

Didn't say it was good logic. But, hey, in a way we got exactly what we asked for. Just, not the way we wanted.

 

Writing an excuse for it into the story doesn't make it okay.... 'There's no soundtrack because everyone got deafened'. It's basically the same thing.

It's slightly different. It's more a case of 'you really don't want to go there, as there's just canyons and craters and such; and you've probably had enough of that over in Lanayru'... Plus, when you think about it, there doesn't seem to be that much missing, if you look at the map. Probably a couple places, but half of it would be forests if not craters and canyons. Pretty much like that scene with the Imprisoned at the beginning, where all you can see are trees. There's nothing else to see; there are no Hylians there. If it wasn't for the setting, there would've been a true overworld; but at that time in the Zeldaverse, there were no hylians or humans on the ground.

 

Please go and play Mass Effect. That is a game that's story-driven. Heck, even Portal 2. SS makes you travel from dungeon to dungeon for vague reasons, because it tells you you need to collect whatever. It is not an example of good video game storytelling. It just isn't.

 

This is my problem, see. If the Wii had stuff like Mass Effect, people who only own a Wii would still be able to know what makes a good game. They'd realise SS has a distinctly average story when compared to proper story-driven games.

 

You misunderstood me; when I said that, I didn't mean literally story driven(Though it is as well; I'll get to that next paragraph); I meant that it is pretty much a game made just for the storyline purposes; to tell the backstory, and explain stuff that was previously unknown; it was literally the Master Sword's creation story.

 

Secondly, everything in Skyward Sword had a purpose. You had to go to the Surface to find Zelda, fighting through different temples in hopes of not being too late. However, each time you were, and each time not for lack of trying. The reason Link was too late each time, though, is because he was not initially a hero; he was a slacker in a way, and didn't take his training that seriously, which changed as he progressed. Even Ghirahim comments on Link's lack of proper training as he taunts him in the first boss fight. However, that obviously changes, both with the player's skill increase, and Link's own skill slowly growing; which is why, despite a collapsed wall, Link still manages to get to the scene relatively in time to save Zelda from Ghirahim, who likely would've succeeded in his plans otherwise. The second half is a 'collect this and that' moment, and I'm still not entirely certain what they were thinking with the Song of the Hero part, but the first part, with the Master Sword, had a purpose. You had to power the Goddess Sword into the Master Sword, so you could unlock the Gate of Time, and inadvertently get the sword, and probably Link himself, powerful enough to finally fulfill the self-fulfilling prophecy of the game; to destroy The Imprisoned for good.

 

It might not have as good a story as, say, Mass Effect; but there's no denying that this is the most story driven game in the series; period, no question. If you want an exploration driven game, you sacrifice the story. Not so much vice versa, but there's only so much you can do without messing things up, if you sequence break.

 

It's two seconds longer than any other company would need when showing their new controller.

Yeah, because any other company had decided to copy Sony two gens ago. Nintendo stayed unique, still got copied, and focused away from dual analog with the Wii. This is the first gen they've actually had a chance to really get around to that, though why they didn't add it for the CCP is a head scratcher.

 

Well the fact that barely anyone I speak to takes Nintendo seriously, and that the 3DS launch has to be one of the worst ever, Nintendo is still definitely a joke. You don't shake off something like the Wii that quickly. Also 'all the awesome stuff' basically amounts to Luigi's Mansion 2, and new Paper Mario, doesn't it?

 

Meanwhile, on proper consoles, we have Dead Space 3, Bioshock Infinite, Assassin's Creed 3, The Last of Us, Watch Dogs etc. It simply doesn't compare.

No, you can't shake off success, can you... There's no denying that the Wii sold the most consoles, at one point more than the PS360 combined. And really? The 3DS's launch was worse than, say, the DS, or you know, the Vita? Sure, it had the pricing controversy, but other than that, it was doing pretty well. You might not think so, but I'd say it pulled off it's goal excellently; it got third party developers to stop stalling, and actually make games early on, leading us to get the games we are getting. And those two you mentioned, Dark Moon and Sticker whats-it-called; are only two of the games I was talking about: KH: DDD, that Squeenix MMO, anything in the recent months that is awesome yet I can't get due to lack of funds... KI:U led the way there; that's what I mean by awesome games.

 

I see like 3 shooters in there; though admittedly, Last of Us looks very cool.

 

Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are the only 'fantastic' games. I might give way to Metroid Prime and DKCR a little, but that's it. I'm not sure why Epic Mickey and Kirby games are on that list at all. I'm talking proper memorable games that people will look back upon as the best of the time. Only Mario Galaxy could manage that, from that list.

Two things; 1, how is Brawl not applicable? Secondly, memorable games that people look back on as the best of all time change all the time. People one thought Super Mario Bros, or Super Mario 3 were the best of all time. Now, people would likely shrug, say 'meh' and go back to Call of Duty 2012 edition. Most of those are the best of their systems. And what do you have against Kirby? 0_o

 

But I don't. I want a vast overworld, with a story that goes beyond GO COLLECT THESE THINGS, that doesn't hold your hand all the way through, and that gives you a bit more freedom. Those are the only similarities with Skyrim I want, because those are the things a proper, current-gen Zelda needs.

I believe you must've skipped past most of the text in Skyward Sword, then... SS had some pretty unforgiving bosses, and while Fi's handholding could get annoying, she couldn't help you in all situations; case in point, the final fight. And the story goes beyond 'COLLECT THESE THINGS' for the most part; the worst offender really is the last few hours of the game, specifically the song part. Everything else, Twilight Princess technically has, though not splitting the overworld next time would be nice.

 

It seems that most people who loved Skyward Sword haven't experienced that much outside of the Wii. Because SS feels like an N64 game in comparison.

Honestly... Let me put it this way: Wii: Uber Gamecube.

PS360: Literal next gen.

 

Where Nintendo went for new control methods to test the waters, Sony and Microsoft went full steam expensively ahead. There's a reason SS feels dated compared to other stuff; because everyone else decided to ramp up their game to higher levels. I admit the system isn't as powerful as the PS360; anyone who doesn't is insane. However; that doesn't mean a game can't be good. It's like saying Tales of the Abyss isn't good, simply because it's on the PS2, or that Persona(1, that is, I'm not getting involved in a 3/4 is better than 1/2 debate) isn't still good, despite being on the PS1. Basically; it might not be as 'OH BLEEDING EDGE TECHNOLOGY HOORAY!!' as some PS3 games; but it's still a good game. Might be totally different from everything else, but in the end, does that really matter; when it comes down to it, a game is a game, and this one lasts you over 60 hours, so...

 

Oh, so the more people who like something, the better it is?

 

It's a joke in the context of gaming. It's not a joke to families who enjoy their Wii fit sessions, but for those of us who enjoyed the N64/Gamecube period of Nintendo being amazing, it sucks.

No, but the more people like something, the better the chances of it getting amazing games; there's a reason the DS has all the awesome RPGs, and the Wii got Monster Hunter 3 over the PS3(Which simply got an enhanced port's HD version); it sold well. The main reason there's shovelware is because of the general perception that casuals flock to the Wii; but there are good games if you look deep enough... What about Red Steel and the like?

 

The best move would've been ensuring it had quality games at launch. And solid online capabilities. And a second analogue stick. But apparently 3D is more important. I accept that it's on the road to recovery, but there's no avoiding how awful it started out. Assuming Nintendo announce big plans for it today, then it'll be fine. But if they leave it as 'Luigi's Mansion and Paper Mario are coming out', then it won't be so good.

I admit, the second slide pad was a head scratcher, and there could've been some more games at the direct launch; but when you consider the launch year, it suddenly gets a whole lot better, as you consider the games that were released, and other things.

 

Also, while that's already happened, you keep forgetting, there's a whole separate conference for the 3DS, which they even stated during this conference. That's when they'll announce the big name stuff, if they wish to do so here; at the very least, we'll get localization news. And actually getting some info of those two games was very good, considering how neglected they've been for the past year. >_>

SS wouldn't have been possible on the N64, no matter what respect you look at it. For example, the Ghirahim fights; even taking out motion controls, Ghirahim fights beyond what anything on the N64 could hope to do, he's just too unpredictable. And then there'd be more fog, and a worse frame rate, and smaller areas that would require loading more, hidden loading or not.

But the general core of the game would be possible. Hate to keep bringing up Skyrim, a game I'm not even a huge fan of, but its scale and depth is something that would not have been remotely possible on N64. But SS would be, admittedly slightly simplified and without motion controls.

When'd MKWii come out again? I only played it last year, but I'm thinking '08, '09... The timing is important to my response. =P

2008.

... Did... you really just say that? Halo can really compare to the exploration meets shooter gameplay of the Metroid Prime series?

Meh, exploration has never been why I play shooters. A strong multiplayer component is usually the reason.

FE is one of the best strategy games I've seen, though admittedly I haven't played the Wii entries yet; and I haven't played Xenoblade either, but I've heard it's a very good RPG, up there with others... And arguably better than the Final Fantasy of this gen. =P

To be fair, that's not too difficult to be, lol.

Also; about that last thing... If you say AC:CF is a rehash of Wild World; then Wild World is a rehash of AC Gamecube, which is a rehash of the N64 version. The problem with that line of thinking, however, is that each iteration adds new differences; CF might be closer to Wild World than GC, but it still has it's differences, and too big of a deviation would probably not allow the data transfer, though they are overhauling the series for the 3DS.

CF basically just added a 'city' area to Wild World, didn't it? And that area sucked anyway... Wild World was a pretty large step for the series, but CF wasn't. And had terrible online in a game which seems almost designed to have an online focus.

... You have played MK7 and KI:U online; right? Actually, scratch the first part, I know you've played it online, since I've faced you before in that... If they could effectively merge the MK7 communities with KI's CPU takeover if you drop out, there'd be no problems. Aside from the occasional error code, but really, is there anything that doesn't give occasional error codes, or, you know, gets hacked?

But I mean outside of things like lag etc. I mainly mean the organisation of it all. Xbox Live has profiles, gamertags, with your game information, achievements etc, friends lists, all pretty easy to navigate. The 3DS is still stuck on friend codes and limited communication and information between players. The Miiverse should help to increase interactivity between players outside of the games, which is a good step, I suppose.

Didn't say it was good logic. But, hey, in a way we got exactly what we asked for. Just, not the way we wanted.

Which means it's still a problem.

It's slightly different. It's more a case of 'you really don't want to go there, as there's just canyons and craters and such; and you've probably had enough of that over in Lanayru'

But isn't that basically the same as 'You don't want to go there, because our level design is dull and repetitive'?

Pretty much like that scene with the Imprisoned at the beginning, where all you can see are trees. There's nothing else to see; there are no Hylians there. If it wasn't for the setting, there would've been a true overworld; but at that time in the Zeldaverse, there were no hylians or humans on the ground.

A deserted overworld is still an interesting one. Fallout 3 builds itself on the concept of a wasteland, Zelda could've done the same. You could find small tribes of Gorons and such here and there. And it could've given us some visually impressive scenes - or could have if the Wii even had HD.

You misunderstood me; when I said that, I didn't mean literally story driven(Though it is as well; I'll get to that next paragraph); I meant that it is pretty much a game made just for the storyline purposes; to tell the backstory, and explain stuff that was previously unknown; it was literally the Master Sword's creation story.

I disagree. Haven't Nintendo always said that story comes second to gameplay? They designed motion controls etc, then though 'Hmm let's do birds', then designed a world, then thought 'Hmm, story....origin story type thing? Might as well'. Point is, story was not a primary concern like it is in Mass Effect.

Secondly, everything in Skyward Sword had a purpose. You had to go to the Surface to find Zelda, fighting through different temples in hopes of not being too late. However, each time you were, and each time not for lack of trying.

Okay, so one temple like that would be okay. But being too late three times is saying 'We had a story for the first temple, but not for the other two, so we just repeated it'.

The reason Link was too late each time, though, is because he was not initially a hero; he was a slacker in a way, and didn't take his training that seriously, which changed as he progressed. Even Ghirahim comments on Link's lack of proper training as he taunts him in the first boss fight. However, that obviously changes, both with the player's skill increase, and Link's own skill slowly growing; which is why, despite a collapsed wall, Link still manages to get to the scene relatively in time to save Zelda from Ghirahim, who likely would've succeeded in his plans otherwise.

But this shouldn't be the main storyline. It should be a natural part of it, not the focus. Shepard from Mass Effect grows as he experiences stuff - he doesn't experience stuff in order to grow, that doesn't make sense. Character development comes from the developing plot, not from someone saying 'Hey you need to have some character development, so do these temples to get that'. It makes development a commodity, not a natural outcome of a storyline. Which is stupid.

You had to power the Goddess Sword into the Master Sword, so you could unlock the Gate of Time, and inadvertently get the sword, and probably Link himself, powerful enough to finally fulfill the self-fulfilling prophecy of the game; to destroy The Imprisoned for good.

But all that is just because the game tells you to. It's not a logical flowing progression.

It might not have as good a story as, say, Mass Effect; but there's no denying that this is the most story driven game in the series; period, no question. If you want an exploration driven game, you sacrifice the story.

Again, Skyrim. Exploration plus story. Stories, in fact. And to say it's the most story driven game in a series that doesn't usually care too much about story isn't saying much.

No, you can't shake off success, can you... There's no denying that the Wii sold the most consoles, at one point more than the PS360 combined.

So? Avatar is one of the most profitable films of all time, but it's still a terrible film.

Two things; 1, how is Brawl not applicable?

Because Melee was better. So Melee will be the one people remember, not Brawl.

Secondly, memorable games that people look back on as the best of all time change all the time. People one thought Super Mario Bros, or Super Mario 3 were the best of all time. Now, people would likely shrug, say 'meh' and go back to Call of Duty 2012 edition.

Well cool dudes would, yeah, but games like Super Mario Bros or Ocarina of Time are pretty much universally considered the best games of their day. Obviously they aren't as good as many modern games, but they're the highlights of their time. Mario Galaxy is the only Wii game that might be considered one of the best of its time.

And what do you have against Kirby? 0_o

Nothing. He was always my main in Melee, lol. And Kirby games aren't awful, they're just average, and not going to be particularly remembered as the best games of their time. Rayman Origins is miles better than Epic Yarn anyway.

I believe you must've skipped past most of the text in Skyward Sword, then... SS had some pretty unforgiving bosses, and while Fi's handholding could get annoying, she couldn't help you in all situations; case in point, the final fight.

The final fight is probably the only time it wasn't spelt out for you.

And the story goes beyond 'COLLECT THESE THINGS' for the most part; the worst offender really is the last few hours of the game, specifically the song part

It really doesn't go beyond that. Mass Effect had objectives, where you're saving people, you're curing a species diseases, you're defending whatever, you're helping a Turian colony defend themselves, you're investigating the Reapers, you're deciding whether to punch someone in the face etc. You have varied objectives. SS's objectives are almost all about collecting stuff for various dire reasons.

There's a reason SS feels dated compared to other stuff; because everyone else decided to ramp up their game to higher levels. I admit the system isn't as powerful as the PS360; anyone who doesn't is insane. However; that doesn't mean a game can't be good.

And I'm the first person who'd point that out. I hold Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 as two of the very best games this generation. It's just how linear SS is, how poor the story is. You don't need a powerful console to provide a good story. Essentially, the faults I find in SS don't fall down to the Wii's tech.

Might be totally different from everything else, but in the end, does that really matter; when it comes down to it, a game is a game, and this one lasts you over 60 hours, so...

It didn't last 60 hours for me, and if it did then it would've been out of doing the same thing three times on three recycled areas over and over. That's not a good thing, that's artificially lengthening a game.

No, but the more people like something, the better the chances of it getting amazing games; there's a reason the DS has all the awesome RPGs, and the Wii got Monster Hunter 3 over the PS3(Which simply got an enhanced port's HD version); it sold well. The main reason there's shovelware is because of the general perception that casuals flock to the Wii; but there are good games if you look deep enough... What about Red Steel and the like?

Games like Red Steel fall in the good-average territory. I'm pretty aware of the key big games on the Wii, but I'm also aware only a handful of them are good, and only a few of them are truely fantastic.

I admit, the second slide pad was a head scratcher, and there could've been some more games at the direct launch; but when you consider the launch year, it suddenly gets a whole lot better, as you consider the games that were released, and other things.

What, the four good games that were released, and how two of those were N64 ports?

 

Now, a list of 360 games, most of which don't beat Mario Galaxy, but all of which are better than basically every other Wii game. I've tried to limit myself to the truly excellent.

Bioshock

Mass Effect

Mass Effect 2

Mass Effect 3 (though some would debate this)

Orange Box

Portal 2

Red Dead Redemption

Arkham City (Okay, the Wii U is getting this, but still)

Arkham Asylum

Fallout 3

Braid

Limbo

Assassin's Creed II, Brotherhood

Super Meat Boy

Dead Space 2

Halo: Reach

Trials HD

 

I've tried to list games that demonstrate a wide variety of genres. The quality of all these games is far higher than stuff like Red Steel or Kirby's Epic Yarn. IMO at least. I'm trying to avoid Skyward Sword now, because that's clearly something we're very divided upon (that said, I don't even think its an awful game, just a slightly above average one that could've been so much better).

 

Essentially, the list above is, in my and many others' opinions, a list of games that are going to define this generation, and are far better than most of the games you've listed as the best of Wii.

 

Oh, and you missed World of Goo off that list. That is an excellent game, to be fair.

 

- Tilius

We're probably gonna run out of room eventually, I just have that feeling. xD

 

But the general core of the game would be possible. Hate to keep bringing up Skyrim, a game I'm not even a huge fan of, but its scale and depth is something that would not have been remotely possible on N64. But SS would be, admittedly slightly simplified and without motion controls.

The general core, technically would be possible on the SNES; just not in 3D. in fact, I believe there was a joke attempt to make a Link's Awakening-like version of Skyward Sword. xD But yeah, it'd have to be simplified, and honestly, the motion controls are one of the best parts of the game; provided you have a good controller.

 

2008.

 

Ah, then that just destroyed my idea. Hmm. Okay, dunno about that one, though it seemed to be kinda experimental, what with the bikes.

 

Meh, exploration has never been why I play shooters. A strong multiplayer component is usually the reason.

True. I'm not sure why they didn't add multiplayer for Prime 3, anyway, especially after Prime 2 and Hunters did.

 

To be fair, that's not too difficult to be, lol.

Haha; very true. xD(I keep hitting the bookmark shortcut when going to hit Shift+D... D=)

 

CF basically just added a 'city' area to Wild World, didn't it? And that area sucked anyway... Wild World was a pretty large step for the series, but CF wasn't. And had terrible online in a game which seems almost designed to have an online focus.

I never tried the online, but I can understand that. I get the feeling, though, that the handheld versions will be bigger in the jumps; though when you compare CF to GC, it suddenly seems better. =P

 

But I mean outside of things like lag etc. I mainly mean the organisation of it all. Xbox Live has profiles, gamertags, with your game information, achievements etc, friends lists, all pretty easy to navigate. The 3DS is still stuck on friend codes and limited communication and information between players. The Miiverse should help to increase interactivity between players outside of the games, which is a good step, I suppose.

Ah, I see, that's coming then. That's part of the Nintendo Network; though honestly, I don't see the need for adding handles instead of the friend codes; they were horrid in DS games, but now, you just need to add one, and voila, you're able to play. It allows you to actually have the name you want, too, instead of having to do _~_~---~-`;Blade;`-~---~_~_ or something. But actually having a more detailed friend card(Why can't you view some information on the back of these?), would actually be good. And a larger limit for characters, which the Miiverse will hopefully fix.

 

Which means it's still a problem.

Didn't say it wasn't. =P Just meant that they at least tried; didn't say they succeeded or anything, though I do think the Majora's Mask style of going through a large field before getting to the dungeon was a nice touch. And they did manage to populate that nicely, you can't deny that. =)

 

But isn't that basically the same as 'You don't want to go there, because our level design is dull and repetitive'?

Nah; I'm just trying to say that to actually work stuff in, they'd have to change things up. Would've been nice, but for the time period, and everything going on with the game, I kinda like the fact that there was no real overworld; simply because there would've been nothing to do... Save the amazing overworld for Zelda HD.

 

A deserted overworld is still an interesting one. Fallout 3 builds itself on the concept of a wasteland, Zelda could've done the same. You could find small tribes of Gorons and such here and there. And it could've given us some visually impressive scenes - or could have if the Wii even had HD.

 

Hmm, true. Dead trees around in some places, with massive trees elsewhere... Might've been interesting. Though, I'd argue that Skyward Sword had some impressive visuals, for the Wii. Not quite as great as Wind Waker's visuals, but that's what you get when you go half and half. =/

 

I disagree. Haven't Nintendo always said that story comes second to gameplay? They designed motion controls etc, then though 'Hmm let's do birds', then designed a world, then thought 'Hmm, story....origin story type thing? Might as well'. Point is, story was not a primary concern like it is in Mass Effect.

My mistake; though I don't know if they designed the world first or not; remember the promos? Back in 2008, a good two years before the first teaser trailer, we got the whole 'Fi is the Master Sword' deal, which means they had to have thought up the fact about it being an origin story fairly early on...

 

Okay, so one temple like that would be okay. But being too late three times is saying 'We had a story for the first temple, but not for the other two, so we just repeated it'.

Well, the first and third is pretty obvious why it was like that... The first time, you got held up by Ghirahim, stopping each other from getting to Zelda. The third time, you actually did get there in time, but Ghirahim's attack ruined all the plans, and forced the second part to happen. The second time, though... It was probably just so Impa could taunt Link. xD

 

But this shouldn't be the main storyline. It should be a natural part of it, not the focus. Shepard from Mass Effect grows as he experiences stuff - he doesn't experience stuff in order to grow, that doesn't make sense. Character development comes from the developing plot, not from someone saying 'Hey you need to have some character development, so do these temples to get that'. It makes development a commodity, not a natural outcome of a storyline. Which is stupid.

But that's not exactly what happens; Link goes through the temples to find Zelda; that's his only goal. The second set is also obvious; Zelda's trapped somewhere, and the only way into the place happens to require the power of a tool that's too weak right now, and requires being reforged. Hence the search for the Sacred Flames. Should there have been a person in charge of forging the blade, ala the Four Sword? I think so, but I think there was a secondary purpose behind the flames.

 

But all that is just because the game tells you to. It's not a logical flowing progression.

Actually, if you want to get technical, it's because Impa tells you to, and Zelda later reinforces. =P

 

Again, Skyrim. Exploration plus story. Stories, in fact. And to say it's the most story driven game in a series that doesn't usually care too much about story isn't saying much.

Well, in that respect, it can handle that, because, as you point out, there are stories; not just one story. That means you can 'sequence break' to your hearts content, and still not mess anything up... It's pretty much the inverse of what my point was; because aside from exploration getting better as there's not as much story, it also gets better as there's multiple stories. Hence how GTA or, as you say, Skyrim can have such open worlds, because you get to choose when you advance the story. A game like Zelda was always, in a way, meant to be linear at least a bit; like how 1 required the Raft and such.

 

So? Avatar is one of the most profitable films of all time, but it's still a terrible film.

I dunno about that. But that's a whole different discussion, and that's a matter of opinions as well. But overall irrelevant, and I don't want to derail this too far. xD

 

Because Melee was better. So Melee will be the one people remember, not Brawl.

Never played Melee, and I liked some of the added touches(I think I might be one of the only people who liked the Subspace Emissary. =P

 

Well cool dudes would, yeah, but games like Super Mario Bros or Ocarina of Time are pretty much universally considered the best games of their day. Obviously they aren't as good as many modern games, but they're the highlights of their time. Mario Galaxy is the only Wii game that might be considered one of the best of its time.

Well, honestly, if you're once again going by generation, and not platform, then yeah, that makes sense, all the other competitors vastly out performed the majority of the Wii games. I'd argue that Monster Hunter 3 did rather well for a Wii game, but I'm not sure if it has the fanbase here to stand up to any questions about best game for this generation. =/

 

Nothing. He was always my main in Melee, lol. And Kirby games aren't awful, they're just average, and not going to be particularly remembered as the best games of their time. Rayman Origins is miles better than Epic Yarn anyway.

Ah, I see; but for the Wii they're good; and that's again originally what I thought that opening paragraph was about. =P Haven't had a chance to play Origins, though... If there's a Wii version of that, though, I forgot to include that. =/

 

The final fight is probably the only time it wasn't spelt out for you.

I'd say Koloktos wasn't entirely obvious; sure, it was painfully obvious you needed the Whip, as with every other Dungeon Item; however, although it gave that sword the special glow, it wasn't entirely obvious what to do with it, for me. =P

 

It really doesn't go beyond that. Mass Effect had objectives, where you're saving people, you're curing a species diseases, you're defending whatever, you're helping a Turian colony defend themselves, you're investigating the Reapers, you're deciding whether to punch someone in the face etc. You have varied objectives. SS's objectives are almost all about collecting stuff for various dire reasons.

I'll give you that; but in that way, Zelda's always been about collecting or delivering things for various dire reasons. xD(Case in point, Zelda 1, the Triforce.)

 

And I'm the first person who'd point that out. I hold Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 as two of the very best games this generation. It's just how linear SS is, how poor the story is. You don't need a powerful console to provide a good story. Essentially, the faults I find in SS don't fall down to the Wii's tech.

SS should've been less linear, I agree, but we've gone over that already. =P Though, if we're going to argue stuff, technically OoT wasn't very open either, or LttP... LttP especially, about half the game is 'go to this dungeon' '... I said go to that dungeon, you can't get to this dungeon until you do.'... And that's one of my favourite Zelda games. =P The story detail's being discussed elsewhere, though, and while I do accept that there should've been less 'Your Princess is In Another Castle', there was a secondary reason for that, if we had've met with Zelda earlier, it would've been just like the second time, and when Link showed up the second time, he probably wouldn't have tried the third time, since that was probably not fun once. =P

 

It didn't last 60 hours for me, and if it did then it would've been out of doing the same thing three times on three recycled areas over and over. That's not a good thing, that's artificially lengthening a game.

I'm including everything; fighting the boss rush for the shield, finishing all the side-quests, getting all the heart pieces, getting all the items... That stuff.

 

Games like Red Steel fall in the good-average territory. I'm pretty aware of the key big games on the Wii, but I'm also aware only a handful of them are good, and only a few of them are truely fantastic.

Ah, I see then, didn't realize that. *Nods*

 

What, the four good games that were released, and how two of those were N64 ports?

Star Fox 64 3D's considered good?(I kid, I kid! I want it myself, but...)

 

Just before I respond, what would we consider the cut-off date for the Launch year; December 31st, or when the 3DS had it's anniversary?

 

Now, a list of 360 games, most of which don't beat Mario Galaxy, but all of which are better than basically every other Wii game. I've tried to limit myself to the truly excellent.

Bioshock

Mass Effect

Mass Effect 2

Mass Effect 3 (though some would debate this)

Orange Box

Portal 2

Red Dead Redemption

Arkham City (Okay, the Wii U is getting this, but still)

Arkham Asylum

Fallout 3

Braid

Limbo

Assassin's Creed II, Brotherhood

Super Meat Boy

Dead Space 2

Halo: Reach

Trials HD

 

Wii U's getting Mass Effect 3 as well, just to point out, they showed 3 games they never showed at the conference in a video on their E3 site, ME3, a Warioware seeming game, and an unknown(to me) game, which I pointed out in the E3 topic.

 

I could've sworn Red Dead Redemption came to the Wii as well, but I could be confusing it with Red Steel...

 

I've tried to list games that demonstrate a wide variety of genres. The quality of all these games is far higher than stuff like Red Steel or Kirby's Epic Yarn. IMO at least. I'm trying to avoid Skyward Sword now, because that's clearly something we're very divided upon (that said, I don't even think its an awful game, just a slightly above average one that could've been so much better).

Good idea. =P And that's fair enough. I'll admit that while I still think this is better than OoT simply because of run button, it's probably not the Best Zelda Game Ever, like I believed back in November/December... Though, I haven't played it in a few months. =P

 

Essentially, the list above is, in my and many others' opinions, a list of games that are going to define this generation, and are far better than most of the games you've listed as the best of Wii.

I'll admit, I haven't played most of those- ... Actually, I haven't played any of them. D= So, I'll be the first to admit that some of them are better; but if we go by simply Wii alone, then those are some fairly good games to play, if you have a Wii. ... Well, maybe not Tales, if you're a Tales fan, they're probably still annoyed at the rushed low budget title the sequel to the game they love got. =/

 

Oh, and you missed World of Goo off that list. That is an excellent game, to be fair.

Dang it, knew I missed something...

If I could just pipe in here and second the motion that World of Goo is an amazing game.

 

Also Tilius: Okami, Rayman Origins, Xenoblade Chronicles, Galaxy 1 and 2, Monster Hunter Tri, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Metroid Prime 3. 8 great games, mister. Eight.