blogs_blog_102

Actually, this is exactly what I do, just more in some sections than others. Reviewing writing actually helps you review other stuff. I should know, I'm the curator of the SS Critics Club...

 

I just wish people would follow this advice. Sadly, most won't. Like, I remember telling someone about a MOC I made for someone in one of my SSs (I know it's not art, bear with me here), and he said "Oh, that's really awesome" or whatever IN THE PM. I told him it would be nice if he could review it, and he said "Um...I don't know how to review..." and I told him to say what he liked, what he didn't like, things I could improve on, etc. All it really takes is getting past the "oh, um...I don't know how to review. It's not in my genes..." I don't know, some of my first posts were reviewing in the Art Forum, and I had no problem with it, and I was doing all of that from the start. So...go figure.

I was going to make a sarcastic comment about posting in a really old blog entry, and then I realized that someone commented yesterday. o_O

 

anyway I figured I should conform and post in this entry. It's good. It's helpful. It helps people who actually think they are helping out by saying "KUTGW". Because some people initially lack the capacity to understand that the aforementioned phrase may sound slightly uplifting, but in reality loses its meaning after it's already been posted on the interwebs app. 250 million times.

 

so i commend you

 

YOU HAS GOT A NID-COMMEND

 

I should hand those out like party favors, they'd be wickedly popular.

I have nothing against you, Nikira. But I personally disagree with this entry and I think you artists maybe being just too picky here. I mean come on, be happy with the reviews, you got.

 

If you want to go dictate how people review your art, you just going to end up losing the people that actually bother to comment on your stuff for they are obviously not going to waste anymore of their time just to give you your desired review. Plus, not everyone here has background knowlegde in art, so you shouldn't be expecting some art critic reviews in your comments in the first place.

 

And in the end, you just got to realize that just how things are and accept it. There nothing that can be done to change these members' minds on how they wish to review things and you should just take it as it is rather than complain and try to change them. Just my two cents.

 

This is the best entry ever. I've linked to it in both the BBC Critics Club and the Comedies Critics Club, and I've had it in my sig several times [speaking of which, I'm going to put it back in there soon.]

 

I really, really have to thank you for making this entry. I really, really hope more people follow this.

 

If you want to go dictate how people review your art, you just going to end up losing the people that actually bother to comment on your stuff for they are obviously not going to waste anymore of their time just to give you your desired review.

I would rather people not post at all in my topics than have people post bad reviews/spam.

 

A great point, in my opinion, Nikira!

THANK YOU...again.

 

I have nothing against you, Nikira. But I personally disagree with this entry and I think you artists maybe being just too picky here. I mean come on, be happy with the reviews, you got.

 

If you want to go dictate how people review your art, you just going to end up losing the people that actually bother to comment on your stuff for they are obviously not going to waste anymore of their time just to give you your desired review. Plus, not everyone here has background knowlegde in art, so you shouldn't be expecting some art critic reviews in your comments in the first place.

 

And in the end, you just got to realize that just how things are and accept it. There nothing that can be done to change these members' minds on how they wish to review things and you should just take it as it is rather than complain and try to change them. Just my two cents.

JMJ, you missed the point entirely. It isn't really about how many reviews you get, it's just the annoying fact that a majority of people just completely spam up your topic, offend you, and just make matters worse. I'm sure the majority of us are very grateful for any review we get, but if we can actually help people fix this problem of bad reviewing, then I'm all for it.

 

Just bringing this problem into light really does help. Also, it’s not so much about how long your review it, or how fancy, it’s just to give a post more than “cool!”. Seriously, it isn’t hard to say what you like about it, what might be able to be fixed, and a question about the drawing. I could sum that all up in just one small paragraph. You don’t need to be an art genius to point that out.

I have nothing against you, Nikira. But I personally disagree with this entry and I think you artists maybe being just too picky here. I mean come on, be happy with the reviews, you got.

 

If you want to go dictate how people review your art, you just going to end up losing the people that actually bother to comment on your stuff for they are obviously not going to waste anymore of their time just to give you your desired review. Plus, not everyone here has background knowlegde in art, so you shouldn't be expecting some art critic reviews in your comments in the first place.

 

And in the end, you just got to realize that just how things are and accept it. There nothing that can be done to change these members' minds on how they wish to review things and you should just take it as it is rather than complain and try to change them. Just my two cents.

 

 

I'm not complaining. I love it when people review my work, no matter how many I get or what kind they are, and I love the fact that people are giving reviews of any kind - it's what keeps the artwork forum going. I also agree that yes, there are members who are never going to post more than "Wow that is amazing" in any kind of art topic - I am not expecting that to change anytime soon, and I'm not trying to turn them or anyone else into instant art critics of any kind. Forcing them to do that is foolish and unnecessary.

 

It is just frustrating, as both an artist and a staff member, to browse through the Artwork forums and see many topics crammed with nothing but spam for reviews by all kinds of members, not just newer or younger ones. If a member has time to go into a topic and look over an image, then they also have time to write a simple, quick note or two about what they did or did not like - something to let the artist know that they were appreciated. It is not required in the least, but it sure makes an artist feel like their piece was worth more than just a glance.

 

I also did not write this on my own ideas - this entry came after talking with multiple Artwork members about this. No, we are not expecting people to give us reviews ten miles long (that's bonseiii's job ). This is not a dictation or rules of any kind - these are personal tips, and only that. "Say what you like, what you don't like, ask a question or two, point out a problem if something looks strange". Members can take it or leave it, and I don't expect anything else. Artists just appreciate feedback on stuff they have worked hard on, and seeing people (especially newer members) who are especially talented and not getting anything other than your generic post isn't very heartwarming to see on a daily basis.

 

I'm sorry you don't agree with my ideas, JMJ. This is just something I'd like to see more of - I'm not expecting it or hounding people to do it. I'd just like to see it happen a little more often than it is.

 

-Nikira

If you want to go dictate how people review your art, you just going to end up losing the people that actually bother to comment on your stuff for they are obviously not going to waste anymore of their time just to give you your desired review.

I would rather people not post at all in my topics than have people post bad reviews/spam.

If it was spam, you could always report it, you know. And I feel I should noted that I wasn't defending people that spam art topics. I was defending people that write simple reviews that are around maybe a paragraph in length about what they like about the art.

 

The way this thing talks it makes it sound like it is wrong just to talk about what you like in a review and that you should go all out and tell the artists how they could improve and ask question and stuff. But why if the member doesn't know that much about art, should they still try to say how something in the piece could be improve? Like there could be artist that prefers to draw in an unorthodox method of making the figure sort blur like and a member on comes on by and say, "You should make the figure more defined in this piece." To me, that seem like it would be more discouraging to the artist of trying new things than helpful. But hey, what do I know I am no artist and at best, my stuff looks like stuff created by a cartoonist.

 

THANK YOU...again.

 

I have nothing against you, Nikira. But I personally disagree with this entry and I think you artists maybe being just too picky here. I mean come on, be happy with the reviews, you got.

 

If you want to go dictate how people review your art, you just going to end up losing the people that actually bother to comment on your stuff for they are obviously not going to waste anymore of their time just to give you your desired review. Plus, not everyone here has background knowlegde in art, so you shouldn't be expecting some art critic reviews in your comments in the first place.

 

And in the end, you just got to realize that just how things are and accept it. There nothing that can be done to change these members' minds on how they wish to review things and you should just take it as it is rather than complain and try to change them. Just my two cents.

JMJ, you missed the point entirely. It isn't really about how many reviews you get, it's just the annoying fact that a majority of people just completely spam up your topic, offend you, and just make matters worse. I'm sure the majority of us are very grateful for any review we get, but if we can actually help people fix this problem of bad reviewing, then I'm all for it.

 

Just bringing this problem into light really does help. Also, it’s not so much about how long your review it, or how fancy, it’s just to give a post more than “cool!”. Seriously, it isn’t hard to say what you like about it, what might be able to be fixed, and a question about the drawing. I could sum that all up in just one small paragraph. You don’t need to be an art genius to point that out.

I actually don't believe I miss the point really. I believe you most likely misunderstood what I was trying to say here. As I do know the purpose of this entry is try to encourage members try to write better reviews for artwork/story/MOC, but it also can discourage members from reviewing other members' works as well.

 

And as far as I know, I don't remember art topics here being completely fill with spam and if they were, you could always report the spam to moderators there to delete it as far as I know. Of course, considering I hadn't been to artwork forum in years, my knowlegde about what been going on there is slim. But still I don't imagine the place literally became a spam fest during my two to three year of absent there.

 

And beside that, I don't believe there is any rules in the artwork forum that say you have to review a certain way and that reviewing this way is wrong, "Hey, this drawing looks cool. And I especially like how you capture Vakama Hordika's inner struggle between what is right and wrong. In my opinion, you look like you may have a future in art from the looks of this. So, keep up the good work." Is that wrong? Is that insulting to the artist? I personally think its not. Maybe you all do, but I think it is a perfectly acceptably review.

 

Also like a noted above, some people don't really know enough about art to really think of what to say needs to be improve. Like to me, anything that seem to look better than what I could make with my own two hands is a masterpiece and it needed not be change. So, to me, an artist eye is really needed to properly suggestion an improvement in the artwork. Once again, just my two cents.

 

I have nothing against you, Nikira. But I personally disagree with this entry and I think you artists maybe being just too picky here. I mean come on, be happy with the reviews, you got.

 

If you want to go dictate how people review your art, you just going to end up losing the people that actually bother to comment on your stuff for they are obviously not going to waste anymore of their time just to give you your desired review. Plus, not everyone here has background knowlegde in art, so you shouldn't be expecting some art critic reviews in your comments in the first place.

 

And in the end, you just got to realize that just how things are and accept it. There nothing that can be done to change these members' minds on how they wish to review things and you should just take it as it is rather than complain and try to change them. Just my two cents.

 

 

I'm not complaining. I love it when people review my work, no matter how many I get or what kind they are, and I love the fact that people are giving reviews of any kind - it's what keeps the artwork forum going. I also agree that yes, there are members who are never going to post more than "Wow that is amazing" in any kind of art topic - I am not expecting that to change anytime soon, and I'm not trying to turn them or anyone else into instant art critics of any kind. Forcing them to do that is foolish and unnecessary.

 

It is just frustrating, as both an artist and a staff member, to browse through the Artwork forums and see many topics crammed with nothing but spam for reviews by all kinds of members, not just newer or younger ones. If a member has time to go into a topic and look over an image, then they also have time to write a simple, quick note or two about what they did or did not like - something to let the artist know that they were appreciated. It is not required in the least, but it sure makes an artist feel like their piece was worth more than just a glance.

 

I also did not write this on my own ideas - this entry came after talking with multiple Artwork members about this. No, we are not expecting people to give us reviews ten miles long (that's bonseiii's job ). This is not a dictation or rules of any kind - these are personal tips, and only that. "Say what you like, what you don't like, ask a question or two, point out a problem if something looks strange". Members can take it or leave it, and I don't expect anything else. Artists just appreciate feedback on stuff they have worked hard on, and seeing people (especially newer members) who are especially talented and not getting anything other than your generic post isn't very heartwarming to see on a daily basis.

 

I'm sorry you don't agree with my ideas, JMJ. This is just something I'd like to see more of - I'm not expecting it or hounding people to do it. I'd just like to see it happen a little more often than it is.

 

-Nikira

I see. Well, I am sorry then for saying that. It just the way this thing is worded and all that it makes me feel it is like a bit of an artist rant and gets my blood to boil a little on how it always seem to make like it was demanding the members to change their views on how to post a review.

 

And considering I support the freedom of members being able to post how they want, I felt I had to step in here and comment about how I believe this discourage the posting of reviews from members because it makes it sound like this is only one way to review things here and if you don't do it this way, you're get your head bite off by the artists here. I have notice quite a few artists here have even linked this entry in their art topics, which like I say seem to implied that artist want more than member is willing to offer in their posts.

 

To me, that seems ungrateful for the reviews and comments, you get. But hey, maybe I am wrong. Maybe that not how other members think of this. I personally don't know. But I do see where you are coming from here and I understand why you and other artists made up these tips. I just can't say I agree with the usable of this entry by BZP artists. Just my two cents again...

 

The way this thing talks it makes it sound like it is wrong just to talk about what you like in a review and that you should go all out and tell the artists how they could improve and ask question and stuff. But why if the member doesn't know that much about art, should they still try to say how something in the piece could be improve? Like there could be artist that prefers to draw in an unorthodox method of making the figure sort blur like and a member on comes on by and say, "You should make the figure more defined in this piece." To me, that seem like it would be more discouraging to the artist of trying new things than helpful. But hey, what do I know I am no artist and at best, my stuff looks like stuff created by a cartoonist.

 

Again, I am not expecting members to be professional critics. If you re-read that section, it says "if you can, point out how to improve." This was mainly directing to either fellow artists or just those willing to lend a helpful hand, whether the "improvement" was needed or not.

 

Improving something does not necessarily mean changing the style, either. I'm not trying to discourage people from having different styles - that's what makes art great! It's important, though, for people to express what they think regardless if they enjoy the style or not, and to do it in a polite way. If an art piece was blurred intentionally and a member was to ask for it to be more defined, the artist could easily post in response and explain why they drew it the way they did.

 

And beside that, I don't believe there is any rules in the artwork forum that say you have to review a certain way and that reviewing this way is wrong, "Hey, this drawing looks cool. And I especially like how you capture Vakama Hordika's inner struggle between what is right and wrong. In my opinion, you look like you may have a future in art from the looks of this. So, keep up the good work." Is that wrong? Is that insulting to the artist? I personally think its not. Maybe you all do, but I think it is a perfectly acceptably review.

 

You are correct - there is no rule on how to review. And no, the mock review you have there is perfectly fine and I enjoy reviews like that (if you read the beginning of the blog entry, I even admit such).

 

There is, however, a fine line between a short review of a piece (short being a couple sentences or less) and simply posting for the sake of posting (posts simply containing "wow" "KUTGW", etc. aka spamming). I consider that, plus the flame/troll and the obvious BZP general rules, to be the only boundaries on reviews. These reviews are the ones I am advising against in the beginning of the entry, as they are not only cluttering but often just plain rule-breaking. Short reviews are absolutely fine, but not if they are spam.

 

And considering I support the freedom of members being able to post how they want, I felt I had to step in here and comment about how I believe this discourage the posting of reviews from members because it makes it sound like this is only one way to review things here and if you don't do it this way, you're get your head bite off by the artists here. I have notice quite a few artists here have even linked this entry in their art topics, which like I say seem to implied that artist want more than member is willing to offer in their posts.

 

To me, that seems ungrateful for the reviews and comments, you get. But hey, maybe I am wrong. Maybe that not how other members think of this. I personally don't know. But I do see where you are coming from here and I understand why you and other artists made up these tips. I just can't say I agree with the usable of this entry by BZP artists. Just my two cents again...

 

I have these tips up for the public to read and understand, not to intimidate them. If that is the feeling you are getting, then I am terribly sorry. What would you think would improve it, at least for you?

 

Members linking to this was a surprise to me as well, don't worry. This was meant to just be a collection of my own thoughts on the subject and I didn't expect people to agree, save the few I had talked to beforehand. Many of those linking to it are the original members I spoke to about this, as well as not only artists, but authors, MOCers, and other members from the Creative Outlet and Library. It's not only usable in the art forum, but in anything that is reviewable. Those who link to it more than likely aren't asking people to make anything complex out of reviews - if a member is truly expecting every review they get to be in-depth and what-not, then I think they are on the wrong website.

 

The point of this blog entry is to show how to review simply, but thoroughly - like LK said earlier, this kind of review can be pulled off in three-four sentences and is not hard at all. If it is sounding truly complex, though, perhaps I could re-write it so the simplification comes across more?

 

-Nikira

Again, I am not expecting members to be professional critics. If you re-read that section, it says "if you can, point out how to improve." This was mainly directing to either fellow artists or just those willing to lend a helpful hand, whether the "improvement" was needed or not.

 

Improving something does not necessarily mean changing the style, either. I'm not trying to discourage people from having different styles - that's what makes art great! It's important, though, for people to express what they think regardless if they enjoy the style or not, and to do it in a polite way. If an art piece was blurred intentionally and a member was to ask for it to be more defined, the artist could easily post in response and explain why they drew it the way they did.

Hm...I see. Well, that didn't seem too clear to me on who that was direct at. And I understand that you aren't trying to discourage people from using different styles in their art. I was just pointing out how certain comments can affect some members, that post art in the forums, from ever doing in again.

 

Its like 'The Look and Leave' argument. Artists don't like it, but they hadn't much choice but to deal with it. Some like myself deal with it by not posting their works anymore in the forums, while others keep on trying and some end up successful even though they don't get the exact reviews, the artists want. It just the way forum life is and I don't see much point in trying to change people here considering like you say its foolish and pointless.

 

And I'll admit this is a good guide for writing up reviews for stories, artwork, and MOCs. But I feel that the artists/writers/builders should try not to make this seem like its the only way, you can review. Let the members review how they like is all I say. Don't try to pressure people into following these tips by linking within multiply art/story/MOC topics, which make it seem like unwritten rule or something in the forums.

 

You are correct - there is no rule on how to review. And no, the mock review you have there is perfectly fine and I enjoy reviews like that (if you read the beginning of the blog entry, I even admit such).

 

There is, however, a fine line between a short review of a piece (short being a couple sentences or less) and simply posting for the sake of posting (posts simply containing "wow" "KUTGW", etc. aka spamming). I consider that, plus the flame/troll and the obvious BZP general rules, to be the only boundaries on reviews. These reviews are the ones I am advising against in the beginning of the entry, as they are not only cluttering but often just plain rule-breaking. Short reviews are absolutely fine, but not if they are spam.

I see. Well, I wasn't defending spammers or flamers or trollers or members just out to up their post count though with this. Just people that prefer the short and simple respond rather than the length bonesiii style responds that could kill someone with a short attention span rather quickly. Although there nothing that you can really do to stop those people that are just posting for the sake of posting though, which I am sure you already know. Just thought that I should noted that anyway.

 

I have these tips up for the public to read and understand, not to intimidate them. If that is the feeling you are getting, then I am terribly sorry. What would you think would improve it, at least for you?

 

Members linking to this was a surprise to me as well, don't worry. This was meant to just be a collection of my own thoughts on the subject and I didn't expect people to agree, save the few I had talked to beforehand. Many of those linking to it are the original members I spoke to about this, as well as not only artists, but authors, MOCers, and other members from the Creative Outlet and Library. It's not only usable in the art forum, but in anything that is reviewable. Those who link to it more than likely aren't asking people to make anything complex out of reviews - if a member is truly expecting every review they get to be in-depth and what-not, then I think they are on the wrong website.

 

The point of this blog entry is to show how to review simply, but thoroughly - like LK said earlier, this kind of review can be pulled off in three-four sentences and is not hard at all. If it is sounding truly complex, though, perhaps I could re-write it so the simplification comes across more?

 

-Nikira

Once again, I understand that. But some people can take these tips a bit too serious like myself and believe that an artist here will be disappoint in them, if they don't follow this. And really I am not sure what to say here to help you improve it to avoid such discussion as this. Plus, it probably isn't even worth it considering I am the only one that even bother to argue against this entry... *shrugs*

 

So, I am sorry then for having brought this up. Good day, ma'am. *walks away*

 

Don't try to pressure people into following these tips by linking within multiply art/story/MOC topics, which make it seem like unwritten rule or something in the forums.

 

This is the only thing I wanted to address - I have not asked anyone to link to this at any time in the past or present. Everyone who has linked to this has done it on their own free will. The link to this for the same reason they'd link to any other topic or blog entry: they want people to read it, for whatever reason.

 

To prevent this line of thought with any other member, I've added another line to the top of this entry. These are not and will never be rules, only guidelines.

 

-Nikira

*slaps hands as he tries to type again* I wasn't going to comment again, but I feel I should mention that I realize that you had nothing to do with the linking of this entry to other places. That comment there was directed toward the members that include the link in their posts.

 

But considering you add that message (Which is probably unnecessary as not a lot of people think like me.), I guess that problem was solve. So, bye again... *runs off again*

 

The main reason for this was brewed out of a discussion between another artist and I about how a lot of members misuse criticism, and so I ranted. Again, I'm not meaning to hurt anyone. I'm just trying to provide pointers.

 

If it gets to a point where people are hurt by what I have said, I'll delete this entry.

 

~Nikira

 

I do need some criticism in my criticism. Thanks for the help.

I feel the overwhelming need to add this.

^^^^^^^^

 

Wow... that was funny.

 

Though it doesn't devote me to become a meany

 

Nice motorcycle!!

Encouraging Comments 1: First off, thank you for posting this blog entry. Not only did you provide something that reviewers have needed for some time, you made it concise and easy to understand, something that a member doesn't have to spend much time on to understand.

 

Constructive Critique 1: However, I did notice some parts of the blog where you could have simplified it even further. I'm not talking about the understanding part; I'm talking about the syntax in this case. This sentence, for example, was somewhat awkwardly worded:

I have seen good reviews that consist of just encouraging comments, but the lack of saying what could improve can be bothersome.

The second half of the sentence in particular clashes with the pattern you used in the first half. Try to stick with what you choose as the style, tense, etc.

 

Helpful Questions 1: I'm wondering whether you visit the Library or Creations forums? Because I personally haven't seen you in the Library, only in the Artwork forums, but even so your 'rant' is remarkably applicable to reviewing stories as well. Maybe it's just because the nature of reviews are the same no matter what's being reviewed?

 

EC2: I personally thought it was ironic in a metaphorical kind of way that, while telling us that explaining why something is wrong in Constructive Criticism, you explain why it's important to do so. Throughout the entire blog post, in fact, you anticipate our questions and answer it right away. The general outline of what you wrote was solid: You address the problem you perceive in the standards of reviewers, then explain how one can improve their reviewing skills. Then when you go on to 'Encouraging Comments', you address the natural question of 'won't it go too far?' by explaining that yes, there is a balance between praise and honesty.

 

CC2: At first I wondered why you would call this a 'rant', when I didn't see anything rant-like about it, but after looking over it again I noticed that at one point your tone can be mistaken as condescending. I personally don't think it's anything to worry about, but seeing as some people already took offense to your 'rant', I suggest you make your tone even more neutral than it already was. The specific instance I mentioned was this:

Got that?

 

Alrighty.

 

Now let's break it down a little.

Now, I'm not sure how changing this would get rid of the problem any, since people can take offense to just about anything, but no harm in trying.

 

HQ2: Do you like Pokemon? Because I'm looking at the boxes on the side of your blog and--

 

Just kidding. But seriously, this is great, definitely what beginning reviewers (and even some vets) need. Very step-by-step, descriptive but at the same time economic. Keep up the good work! 10/10 =P