Jump to content
  • entries
    275
  • comments
    3,435
  • views
    213,784

Taste Discrimination Fallacy, Equality Of Taste


bonesiii

602 views

tastefaceoff.png


Today the Bones Blog brings you a topic that is essential for any member of any online fan forum to understand -- the equality of varying personal preferences/tastes, and how not recognizing this can sometimes lead to misunderstandings, or worse. Bold is for important points, not emotionalism.

This will be very to-the-point so it's easier to read -- if you wanna know more, please ask! Please realize my goal is to show an easy way to help us all avoid flaming each other, even if we disagree on things. ^_^

Quality is in the Eye of the Beholder

Bionicle is a toyline, a franchise with a storyline inspired by its toys. Toys are for kids to have fun, although some adults (like me) enjoy toylines as well. To have fun, kids must be pleased by the toy and the experience that comes with it, or by the storyline, etc.

How you please each person depends on their personal tastes, also called preference.

Tastes vary from person to person, and are largely wired into us from birth, not something we choose or can control. Tastes do change and develop with age and life experiences, and there may some small element of choice with them. But for the most part, taste is just like race, gender, hair color, eye color, facial features, etc. -- it's built into us.

And thus, to put down someone else just because they dislike different things, or to insult the things they like, is a form of discrimination, and is wrong. Now, it's perhaps not as bad as racism, because it's easy to see that skin color or other racial features are not chosen by the person, but preference is invisible. However, at heart it is just as bad, and the hate directed at the "different" can hurt just as much.

Or to put it how I often do -- People are like snowflakes. No two are the same.

This means that "quality", at least in toys, is subjective, and depends on the person. Nobody can claim that their own tastes automatically equal quality. The only thing close is the majority taste, since that determines what will sell well.

The Mistake

However, the above facts are often misunderstood or not even known by people, especially when young. People often assume that what they like, everybody else must like too. When they dislike something, they assume it must be "bad" and that everybody else will agree.

When people like this encounter others, it is confusing. They often react negatively to the different person (making a mistake I call "Instant Rejection Fallacy" which I will have a blog entry in the future), assuming they are making a wrong choice, or are somehow "damaged" or immature or less intelligent, etc.

When they encounter things they dislike, they assume there must be something wrong with those who designed it. Many who do know that others like different things mistakenly think that those others are "lesser."

In their confusion, people often try to "defend" their tastes by trying to sound logical about what is "good" and "bad" -- two problems being that they just use fallacies, which aren't logical, and that they didn't need to defend their tastes at all because it's okay to have them.

It's an easy mistake to make -- but it's easily fixed if we simply realize that taste is wired into us, and not related to intelligence or anything like that -- if we realize that all individual tastes are equal. :) Seeing someone who's different isn't cause for alarm -- relax yall! :P

Bionicle's Responsibility

Bionicle has a responsibility to remain financially healthy in order to continue, and to support the LEGO company. In order to do this, it must please enough fans that it turns a profit (in the face of pressures such as the cost of plastic, the cost of steel molds, both of which have been rising, or the salaries of employees, or the costs to transport and package, etc. etc. etc.).

This means Bionicle has a responsibility to please "most fans," or the "majority preference."

Since each individual taste is equal, each one works like a vote. That's only approximate as some might spend more money than others, but you get the idea. With votes, majorities win.

While it can give minority fans small treats here and there, vast majority of time the issue is this: "Does this please most fans?"

Also, BZP is NOT most fans. We are only a tiny percentage of the fanbase, and even the active posts are often unequally weighted towards the displeased than the pleased -- because the pleased would usually rather just play with toys than go post somewhere.

The Risk of Entrenched Hatred

I strongly recommend reading my past blog entry "Am I Against Free Speech?," especially the "Forums Gone Bad" section, because on forums where lack of understanding of this basic concept runs rampant, many people tell themselves for years that they are superior to everybody else, and this wrong opinion becomes so entrenched that it is hard to teach them the truth. Just trying to do makes you "the enemy" in their eyes a lot of times.

So whenever you see a topic or post doing this, I recommend linking here.

We all must be vigilant and see to it that we don't let anyone fall into this dangerous trap, including ourselves. Just one post while you're in a bad mood can come across as TDF, and spark flame. It can drag down any forum, even BZPower, and it really only takes a month or even less time for such discrimination to become entrenched if there's something big to disagree about (like new set images). It doesn't always just plain die down.

In the past few months, I've seen a lot more extreme taste discrimination in the form of some extreme, even hateful topics. These are beginning to risk us needing to start closing complaint topics, and if you read that other entry, you know I'm trying my best to prevent that. But I'm a busy guy and I can't do it all myself. Obviously, these usually come from newer members (though often longtime fans) who aren't as familiar with our rules against flaming, and almost definately have never seen any of my posts or similar posts.

The Fallacy, 3 Main Forms

1) Insulting someone with a different taste is the most extreme form of "taste discrimination."

This is NOT to say "there's no such thing as morals." People CAN certainly make immoral choices, but morals are inside the realm of logic. Logic states that "I like" statements are considered to be outside the realm of logic, thus it is illogical to try to attach moral or universal standards to personal tastes.

2) A lesser version is when you don't insult the people directly, but insult what they like. Even if you say that you don't want to offend anybody, doing that IS an insult to the person who likes it, because it implies they shouldn't like it.

3) And a much lesser version is when you simply assume that everybody, or most people, shares your own tastes. You might not hate those who don't share your tastes, but you assume that entertainment is supposed to be targeted at you, thus you can tell people what is 'good' and 'bad' about entertainment purely by saying what you liked or disliked. Problem is, you might actually be in the minority on some things. World doesn't revolve around just you.

This is a form of "Hasty generalization" fallacy. It also often comes in the form of "Chronological Snobbery" fallacy -- assuming that the new/old is good/bad just because it's new or old. Both of those terms are official logicianspeak, not my own terms.

All of these are versions of a logical fallacy because, essentially, they look at something that is true inside one person (taste) and use it to say what reality must be, universally, about something outside that person (in this case, Bionicle).

The argument "I dislike this, therefore Bionicle shouldn't do it" sums up the fallacy.

"Taste Discrimination Fallacy" is my own term, to be clear. And don't confuse it with "He has discriminating tastes" -- that's just a fancy way of saying someone's picky. :P

Again, What I'm NOT Saying

I'm NOT saying that Bionicle doesn't make mistakes. If it appeals less to most fans than it should, that's a mistake, and needs fixed -- complaining about these is good and is the main reason I work so hard to keep complaint topics flame-free and thus open.

I'm NOT saying logic is irrelevant to Bionicle. But it's usually more in the storyline realm than the set one -- plot holes and the like are a logical issue. With sets, almost everything is a matter of preference. Also, LEGO must use logic in order to determine what will appeal to most fans. Obviously it is capable of not hitting that nail on the head every time, but it's been getting much, much better at it.

I'm NOT saying the majority taste is "better" than the minority. Individually each is equal, and a "tyranny of the majority" would be just as bad with this as with racism or any other form of discrimination. However, Bionicle has no choice but to try to appeal to the majority, and this is not wrong. Small treats for minority fans are cool and I encourage them, but we must be careful not to be ungrateful when this happens as LEGO has no obligation to do it -- we should not have a "more more more" attitude towards such treats.

I'm NOT saying everything is about taste. There are some people who try to justify immoral behavior as taste -- this is wrong because issues of morals do exist inside the realm of logic. So for example murder is wrong universally -- a murderer can't justify it by saying he likes to do it.

What else am I not saying... *thinks*

I'm NOT saying that taste is as simple as "two sides." That's what entrenched flamers usually say, and it's waaay oversimplistic. However, there are two approximate sides on a lot of things. Watch for an entry coming soon on what they are.

I'm NOT saying there's an "older fan" taste and a "younger fan" taste. While that might have changed slightly for the majority since new kids constantly get born, grow a little older, and join the fanbase, a lot of the original styles were unpopular even in 2001 (Rahi sold poorly, collectibles sold poorly, gears were unpopular, the most-complained-about year, etc.). I am a perfect example of a 2001 fan who disliked those things and loves the newer style a lot more.

In reality, it was that in 2001 LEGO misjudged who would mostly like Bionicle, and since then, has changed to move more in line with the majority. The minority, which is often online and BZP members, dislikes this obviously. But they sometimes forget that LEGO can't please everybody -- so there will always be someone who dislikes whatever they do.

And I'm not saying anything else bad. :P Bones = nice. I'm saying Beeeeee Gooooooood. Capisce?

Examples of Taste Discrimination

Some of these are near-quotes from recent topics, others are from past topics, most are paraphrased.

"LEGO has killed Bionicle because I don't like a new set!"

"This set is stupid."

"Epic fail." (Sorry :P)

"LEGO's selling out!"

"Bionicle is cheaping out!"

"Alright, no."

"Dumbest set."

"Golden Age of 2001."

"Bionicle is for [insert random insult]s."

"LEGO is milking the cash cow." (If something sells, means it pleases kids.)

"I hate this set." (Hate is too far; if you hate a toy, you have problems.")

"The Umbra Mistake"

"Toa Mistake-a" (I know it's punny and all, but it's TDF.)

"LEGO doesn't care about the fans, just money." (If it sells, means pleases most fans.)

"You're a fanboy." (Probably the dumbest insult considering most Bionicle fans are boys and are also, well, fans...)

"You're not a true fan." (Just because someone doesn't like part of a franchise doesn't make 'em any less a fan.)

And there are hundreds of other similar statements that reveal a taste-discrimination fallacy. I've probably forgotten a lot of biggies -- I might add more.

A Better Way!

If we all simply understand that taste vary, and are equal, we can learn to get along with others much more, and avoid problems like flame. When you see something you don't like, be more like "Eh, not my cup of proverbial tea... not that I drink tea..." We are all different, and that's okay. ^_^

Say things more like "What set do you like least?" or "Favorite set?" or "I didn't like that at all." etc. Usually things like "Worst set" are OK as long as they aren't flamey too.

It's simple, really, even if it takes a few words to say the whole thing (:P), and when you have figured this out, life is much easier and more pleasant.

That is all.

15 Comments


Recommended Comments

Excellent points you've got there Bones. I see what you mean.

I haven't been into Bionicle for a real long time, but I get the feeling this kind of thing happens each year when the new sets are seen. But Bionicle has always come through, many times with better sales than anticipated.

Again, excellent points. :)

-Ax-

Link to comment
2) A lesser version is when you don't insult the people directly, but insult what they like. Even if you say that you don't want to offend anybody, doing that IS an insult to the person who likes it, because it implies they shouldn't like it.

So you are saying that if I for example say: "IMO White sets are ugly and dumb" I am discriminating?

Link to comment
2) A lesser version is when you don't insult the people directly, but insult what they like. Even if you say that you don't want to offend anybody, doing that IS an insult to the person who likes it, because it implies they shouldn't like it.

So you are saying that if I for example say: "IMO White sets are ugly and dumb" I am discriminating?

 

Now I may not be bonesiii, but if I understand that correctly, you're say IMO which, as we all know, means 'In my opinion.' Now I know that opinion means stuff like "Sets would sell better if they had gears" or something like that, but taste and opinion are interchangable words, right? So if you're using "IMO" to say that you personally think White sets are dumb and ugly, then that's fine.

 

But maybe you should wait for bones to answer. He'd probably give you a better answer, since he's the one who wrote this entry and all. But I was just trying to help, that's all.

 

-TNTOS-

Link to comment

That's basically right, Toa Nuhrii. I would use "IMT" to be incredibly clearer, personally, but IMO usually means the same thing. However, I would discourage using words like "dumb" because that implies that there's an actual intelligence problem on the set designer's part, which sounds flamey and is also the whole "I dislike it therefore it's dumb" fallacy format. :)

 

"IMO the sets are ugly" would be perfectly fine though.

Link to comment

Exaggeration can be a problem when others don't get that it's exaggeration, though -- this can lead to flame wars too. Also, I know for a fact that many people are actually making this mistake, not just using poor wording, etc.

Link to comment

Lol silly members. Though most people nowadays exagerate like that so I dont see why people still think they're meaning it. It should be steriotypical to see somebody exagerating therefore paying less attention to their wording.

Link to comment
"Toa Mistake-a" (I know it's punny and all, but it's TDF.)

 

I'm not sure I get why that's Taste Discrimination. It doesn't seem like Taste Discrimination to me. Could you please explain?

 

-TNTOS-

Link to comment

Well, the implied argument is that because they don't like the Mistika, they are a mistake. As I say, people are using this one more for pun value than to insult people, but still, the reasoning is the format that "I don't like this, therefore LEGO did something wrong" that sums up taste discrimination, unfortunately. It can't logically be judged as a mistake on LEGO's part based on the taste of one observer.

Link to comment
Well, the implied argument is that because they don't like the Mistika, they are a mistake. As I say, people are using this one more for pun value than to insult people, but still, the reasoning is the format that "I don't like this, therefore LEGO did something wrong" that sums up taste discrimination, unfortunately. It can't logically be judged as a mistake on LEGO's part based on the taste of one observer.

 

Okay, I understand now.

 

-TNTOS-

Link to comment

I like the term Mistake-a actually, not only because it is funny, but it shows a willingness to actually type out a lengthy name. After all, it's not that much harder to type "'06 Matoran" or "08 Matoran" than to type "Voyatoran," "Kardatoran," or "Phantoran." And don't even get me started on Miskuta and Phankuta...

 

But yes, when people take it seriously it is taste discrimination. But I think some people just prefer it as a clever jab at LEGO for disappointing them, regardless of whether they acknowledge LEGO's reasons.

Link to comment

1) Typing out a longer name isn't always wise -- brevity is the soul. More concise and descriptive names get the point across faster and save time. Reason I support words like "equiv" and "diff."

 

2) It's the opposite principle of Voyatoran. Mistika is the correct name, and is shorter, while Voya Nui Matoran is the correct name and is longer.

 

3) Although your examples of "longer" names were shorter than the short ones. :P The technical names would be "Voya Nui Matoran", etc. If we went by year abbrev, why not just say 06toran? So not sure the principle fits your examples well. :P

 

But I can understand the approval of longer things. Obviously it is a problem when people ignore arguments or whatnot simply because they are longer, if they're missing good points.

 

(On the other hand, sometimes they are short on time too so have no choice.)

 

 

Edit: Also, one problem with TDF-format statements, even as jokes, are that they are often misunderstood and thus create more harm than intended. Personally I usually avoid such things, since the misunderstandings usually outweigh the benefits of the joke. Humor can be better used.

Link to comment
Guest
Add a comment...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...