Jump to content
  • entries
    386
  • comments
    3,101
  • views
    230,322

Bionicle Stars: Hahli


ToM Dracone

2,646 views

This is what I've spent half my time not studying/doing end-of-semester assignments doing lately, and some time when I really should have been working on those.

 

starhahlithumb.png

note: this picture is actually a link now. I feel stupid.

 

As I said last entry, I think star!Vezok's set is extremely boring and disappointing for a supposed "Star," and that Hahli would be both much more deserving of a place in the last Bionicle sets ever, and would also look a whole lot more interesting.

 

So, this is her. She has Gresh's armor (thus, two Stars with that armor and two with Tahu's), and she also has her Matoran color scheme. I like the idea of her Star form having the lime of her Mahri set, but I didn't do that for several reasons – one, we have two Stars with lime already; two, the only ways I could come up with to incorporate lime would either result in too much of it and thus a bad color distribution, or would be too much like Gresh. So she got light blue. And for her wings, after much debate, I went with Mata Nui's blades. They were the only pieces with the real volume I wanted her wings to have, and I decided eventually that that was more important than their slightly more limited flexibility.

 

Since the wings would attach using these pieces into the pin holes on her back. And by the way, if someone could take a photo of the Avotoran torso and Mata Nui's blades in that arrangement, I'd be much obliged. (I'm very far away from my collection, so I can't quite do it myself.)

 

Also, clearly she still needs a tool of some sort. Suggestions are welcome. (the 25 piece count includes a tool.)

 

And, uh, yes, I did have great fun designing the background. I'm also really pleased with how the lineart turned out as well; I was pretty much making the style up as I went. But I'll definitely use this for stuff like this in the future. (I uploaded it over here, if anyone cares for it.)

 

Oh, on the subject of things I've been doing instead of studying: banners! Feel free to take some. Well, only one at a time, please. But anyway.

 

Off to do some more studying, which – along with papers – has basically been my life lately.

~ ToM

27 Comments


Recommended Comments



It's Nektann, not Vezok =P

 

And he was my favorite Star, personally. But that's kay.

 

My question is, why didn't you go for Lime green? The armor does come in that color for reals, and it is her original color scheme to boot.

Link to comment
It's Nektann, not Vezok =P

 

And he was my favorite Star, personally. But that's kay.

 

My question is, why didn't you go for Lime green? The armor does come in that color for reals, and it is her original color scheme to boot.

One: did you read the entry? I explained that quite at length. And two, uh, dark blue and light blue is her original color scheme.

Link to comment

Nice one on forgetting to link the image. :P

 

I honestly love the colors on Hahli, they are more fitting. I personally prefer the light blue as opposed to the lime green, it just always seemed more fitting for her.

 

Kohaku

Link to comment

I agree that it would've been a great set, but Hahli would need a sword as well (for playability and stuff), which would leave her with too many pieces for stardom.

 

Also, although it's possible, it's harder than it should be to make out Hahli's eyes if she has an Av-head.

 

I think that the Piraka set is still good, but a less boring secondary colour would've made it more worthwhile.

Link to comment
I agree that it would've been a great set, but Hahli would need a sword as well (for playability and stuff), which would leave her with too many pieces for stardom.

Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that. I didn't know what to give her for a tool, but the 25 pieces include one for a tool, so she's good piece-count wise.

Link to comment

So, I read this and decided to try out the wing design and provide pics.

 

Here

 

(note that the rest of the MOC is pretty much a throwaway, not really intended to follow your design since I have neither Gresh nor Nektann, but I tried to make it Hahli-ish regardless)

 

When the wings are flared, they actually do look very good, particularly from the front (as seen in the shot in the top-lefthand corner). The main drawback is that they aren't quite as appealing when lowered/"put away"; Hahli's original build did that nicely, and methinks implementing something similar works reasonably as an alternative. Even so, it would be just a small set, so it'd still be a good setup for such a set, methinks.

 

Also, as much as I like Nektann as a set, I also very much like the idea of Hahli taking his place. As usual, your design for such a set is truly wonderful and a nearperfect reflection of the old one. :happy:

Link to comment
I agree that it would've been a great set, but Hahli would need a sword as well (for playability and stuff), which would leave her with too many pieces for stardom.

Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that. I didn't know what to give her for a tool, but the 25 pieces include one for a tool, so she's good piece-count wise.

Piece-wise it would be fine, but plastic-wise 3 large weapons would be too generous IMO.

Link to comment
Wow, that is EPIC. I wish LEGO just did this in reality, but alas, we got Nektann instead. I find this far superior to any of the released Stars.
Link to comment
Piece-wise it would be fine, but plastic-wise 3 large weapons would be too generous IMO.

Skrall has the two ginormous blades and then a Kopaka sword. Hahli with two Mata Nui blades and a proper tool seems fine to me.

 

Dlakii, thank you so much! I wasn't exactly sure how they'd look, so this is very useful. I'll do some playing around with other pieces when I get home, but it's good to have a reference for the Mata Nui blades...

 

-IGNITION-, I used Photoshop.

Link to comment

It's...

 

Beuatiful. ;______;

 

Love the minimal VNOLG-esque (I think so; I never played it) style. The golden star effects are lovely, as well. :3 I wish this were a set, I really do.

Link to comment
It's Nektann, not Vezok =P

 

And he was my favorite Star, personally. But that's kay.

 

My question is, why didn't you go for Lime green? The armor does come in that color for reals, and it is her original color scheme to boot.

One: did you read the entry? I explained that quite at length. And two, uh, dark blue and light blue is her original color scheme.

Original as a Matoran, but not as a Toa Mahri. If you were to follow that sort of rule with regard to color schemes, you might say that a stars Toa Metru Vakama should be orange, Mata red, and black. Only reason I'm commenting on this now (since I already addressed this on another site) is because I was just trying to color a Turaga Vakama drawing last night and was once again faced with the serious inconsistencies between Toa Metru and Turaga color schemes. There was a point in time when I tried to come up with a "formula" for how color schemes would change between different Matoran forms, but that was in 2004 before seeing LoMN and realizing that even the official material wasn't going to try and cope with that problem.

 

But yeah, I understand why lime would be awkward given Gresh.

 

I still don't see where you see the slightest resemblance between the Stars Piraka and Vezok. I have yet to see an image where he's not distinctly different from any preexisting Piraka.

Link to comment
It's Nektann, not Vezok =P

 

And he was my favorite Star, personally. But that's kay.

 

My question is, why didn't you go for Lime green? The armor does come in that color for reals, and it is her original color scheme to boot.

One: did you read the entry? I explained that quite at length. And two, uh, dark blue and light blue is her original color scheme.

Original as a Matoran, but not as a Toa Mahri. If you were to follow that sort of rule with regard to color schemes, you might say that a stars Toa Metru Vakama should be orange, Mata red, and black.

Vakama's Matoran form was never made into a set, and if I recall correctly from LoMN, his colors there were Orange and Metru Red.

Link to comment
It's Nektann, not Vezok =P

 

And he was my favorite Star, personally. But that's kay.

 

My question is, why didn't you go for Lime green? The armor does come in that color for reals, and it is her original color scheme to boot.

One: did you read the entry? I explained that quite at length. And two, uh, dark blue and light blue is her original color scheme.

Original as a Matoran, but not as a Toa Mahri. If you were to follow that sort of rule with regard to color schemes, you might say that a stars Toa Metru Vakama should be orange, Mata red, and black.

Vakama's Matoran form was never made into a set, and if I recall correctly from LoMN, his colors there were Orange and Metru Red.

But the point is, we're talking "original form" as in "the form that first appeared in story and sets", that being his Turaga form.

 

Besides, the movies used severe artistic license-- Toa Metru Vakama used orange and Metru Red just like his Matoran form, and Hahli was almost purely Mata Blue. Awesome as the movies were, very few set critics would be happy to see their design choices reflected in sets. Just look how many people were unhappy with the eye color changes in 2008 and then go back and apply that to every character whose eye color was different in the movies than in the sets.

Link to comment

Aaaand I'm not quite sure where the movies come into this at all. The point of this whole thing about original colors is that Hahli first existed in dark blue and light blue, so if a Star version of her Mahri form had light blue instead of lime, there would still be no question of her identity as Hahli. Nobody's saying that Star!Hahli should have light blue because that was her original color scheme – the idea is that because there are two Stars who use lime already, it's unlikely that Lego would give a third one lime as well, and so it makes sense to use her original color scheme.

 

Similarly, I don't think anyone would have complained if Vakama Hordika had had orange. Such a change from Metru to Hordika was hardly mandatory, but if it had happened, it would not at all have been illogical.

 

Anyway. Let's get back on track.

 

I still don't see where you see the slightest resemblance between the Stars Piraka and Vezok. I have yet to see an image where he's not distinctly different from any preexisting Piraka.

I might ask you the same question about, say ... Onua Mistika.

 

Do you see my point? I looked at the Piraka and saw Vezok simply by his identity as the blue Piraka. Seeing the Star Piraka in more detail now, I see that he has distinctly different features; the only thing specifically in common that I can point out is those bumps on his forehead, which Vezok had on his chin. The point being that drastic differences between a new set and a previous version have never stopped the new one from being the same character as the old one, and since Vezok and Nektann have far more in common than any 2008 Nuva and 2002 Nuva do (except maybe Kopaka), it's hardly illogical to have assumed this little blue Piraka was Vezok.

 

Dark blue primary color, muted secondary color, clawed feet, the spikes, a grey body where Vezok had silver – by Lego's standards that's more than enough to make two sets the same character, and you know it.

Link to comment
Aaaand I'm not quite sure where the movies come into this at all. The point of this whole thing about original colors is that Hahli first existed in dark blue and light blue, so if a Star version of her Mahri form had light blue instead of lime, there would still be no question of her identity as Hahli. Nobody's saying that Star!Hahli should have light blue because that was her original color scheme – the idea is that because there are two Stars who use lime already, it's unlikely that Lego would give a third one lime as well, and so it makes sense to use her original color scheme.

 

Similarly, I don't think anyone would have complained if Vakama Hordika had had orange. Such a change from Metru to Hordika was hardly mandatory, but if it had happened, it would not at all have been illogical.

 

Anyway. Let's get back on track.

 

I still don't see where you see the slightest resemblance between the Stars Piraka and Vezok. I have yet to see an image where he's not distinctly different from any preexisting Piraka.

I might ask you the same question about, say ... Onua Mistika.

 

Do you see my point? I looked at the Piraka and saw Vezok simply by his identity as the blue Piraka. Seeing the Star Piraka in more detail now, I see that he has distinctly different features; the only thing specifically in common that I can point out is those bumps on his forehead, which Vezok had on his chin. The point being that drastic differences between a new set and a previous version have never stopped the new one from being the same character as the old one, and since Vezok and Nektann have far more in common than any 2008 Nuva and 2002 Nuva do (except maybe Kopaka), it's hardly illogical to have assumed this little blue Piraka was Vezok.

 

Dark blue primary color, muted secondary color, clawed feet, the spikes, a grey body where Vezok had silver – by Lego's standards that's more than enough to make two sets the same character, and you know it.

Both forms of the Miru Nuva, the Kakama Nuva, and the Akaku Nuva very clearly echo the 2002 versions. Those are very blatantly deliberate similarities, unlike bumps on a totally different part of the face in a totally different arrangement.

 

Admittedly Onua Nuva Mistika, or for that matter any of the Mistika, have far fewer similarities to their previous forms (although Tahu's forehead and mask sillhouette are largely reminiscent). So you have a point that I was exaggerating when I said there wasn't the slightest similarity. It wasn't illogical to initially assume that the blue Piraka was Vezok, but to keep calling him that is just inexplicable. Shall we continue calling the Kanohi Nuva "Kranohi" because that's what they looked like to unenlightened fans in preliminary images?

 

On a similar note, while I far prefer the Piraka set as Nektann (a new character), I have to agree with some people that Vezok could have been made the Stars Piraka, given that he could have been brought back into story and into a humanoid form by somehow re-fusing with Vezon (which Vezon's logic-bending escapades could easily pull off). However, given the design of the set's face and spine, I definitely could not see it as Vezok under most circumstances.

Link to comment
Both forms of the Miru Nuva, the Kakama Nuva, and the Akaku Nuva very clearly echo the 2002 versions. Those are very blatantly deliberate similarities, unlike bumps on a totally different part of the face in a totally different arrangement.

Now you're reaching. Any similarities to the 2002 Nuva masks and the 2008 Phantoka masks are found by fans trying to hard to prove complainers wrong. At first glance none of them look like the original mask they were supposed to represent. With Kopaka's coming in the closest, though I would have thought nothing of it had they said it was an update of Nuju Metru's mask. It looks far more like that one than like either of the previous Akakaus.

Link to comment

Aanchir. Seriously. That was a rhetorical question, given that we've been over this topic -extensively- before. Goodness knows we don't need to again.

 

The point being that, as DV quite exemplarily illustrated, the adaptive armor Nuva have far less in common with their 2002 counterparts than Vezok and Nektann do. With this fact in mind, you maintain that every single one of the 2008 Nuva is instantly identifiable as his or her former self; I assumed that the Stars' Piraka was Vezok.

 

Briefly, what the 2008 and 2002 Nuva have in common is a few details on a few masks, and about four colors kept the same on both versions out of all six, and a couple of their tools. Vezok and Nektann share almost the same color scheme and overall shape, though the details are different between the two. I know you differ in this matter, but most people (myself included) take overall shapes and colors, rather than minute, almost insignificant details, into account when assessing visual similarity – thus assuming that the Stars' Piraka was Vezok.

 

And for goodness' sakes, it's not like I'm insisting on calling Nektann Vezok when I know he's not. When I posted this entry I had seen a few people call him Nektann but never seen any confirmation that he was a different Piraka than Vezok, thus, I just called him what I assumed him to be. Further, as these are supposedly the stars of Bionicle, it only makes sense to see a blue Piraka next to a bunch of other characters I recognize and assume "Oh, they chose Vezok for the blue one. That's interesting."

 

I'm not objecting to his identity as Nektann; I'm merely explaining the fact that he looks an awful lot like Vezok and therefore it is entirely reasonable to assume he was.

Link to comment
Aanchir. Seriously. That was a rhetorical question, given that we've been over this topic -extensively- before. Goodness knows we don't need to again.

 

The point being that, as DV quite exemplarily illustrated, the adaptive armor Nuva have far less in common with their 2002 counterparts than Vezok and Nektann do. With this fact in mind, you maintain that every single one of the 2008 Nuva is instantly identifiable as his or her former self; I assumed that the Stars' Piraka was Vezok.

 

Briefly, what the 2008 and 2002 Nuva have in common is a few details on a few masks, and about four colors kept the same on both versions out of all six, and a couple of their tools. Vezok and Nektann share almost the same color scheme and overall shape, though the details are different between the two. I know you differ in this matter, but most people (myself included) take overall shapes and colors, rather than minute, almost insignificant details, into account when assessing visual similarity – thus assuming that the Stars' Piraka was Vezok.

 

And for goodness' sakes, it's not like I'm insisting on calling Nektann Vezok when I know he's not. When I posted this entry I had seen a few people call him Nektann but never seen any confirmation that he was a different Piraka than Vezok, thus, I just called him what I assumed him to be. Further, as these are supposedly the stars of Bionicle, it only makes sense to see a blue Piraka next to a bunch of other characters I recognize and assume "Oh, they chose Vezok for the blue one. That's interesting."

 

I'm not objecting to his identity as Nektann; I'm merely explaining the fact that he looks an awful lot like Vezok and therefore it is entirely reasonable to assume he was.

I never maintain that they are "instantly identifiable" as their former selves. I don't think there is anything instant about similarities between two forms of a character, and I don't recall any time there ever was. But there were attempts by LEGO to make similarities, which I've pointed out many times (Pohatu's mask is where it's most obvious, since the lower half's contours are exactly the same albeit more angular). I could just as easily say, DV, that any dissimilarities are just places where disgruntled fans refuse to accept that LEGO put any thought into the set design. But that's a generalization, and not any truer than what you said. The fact is, there are similarities, and there are dissimilarities, and what matters is which ones were intentional.

 

For instance, compare the Akaku Nuva's forehead angle with the original. I can't think of any other mask with a forehead that angles down at this same slope (feel free to suggest some). The only of the Phantoka masks without obvious intent to resemble the original was the Miru Nuva, and even it has the trapezoidal mouth area framed by dual air intakes, a trait which both the Miru and Miru Nuva had.

 

I think details are a lot more important than color and overall shape when identifying characters. Otherwise I might have assumed that Toa Inika Nuparu was a new form of Whenua since their color schemes are similar and they're both Toa. This might be because I do a lot of drawing, and thus I pay more attention to details than generic similarities. Still, I consider this a far wiser way to judge and evaluate things than just taking a lazy glance and assuming that from color and shape I know all I need to know. Colors and shapes can be total coincidences, but similarities at a greater level of detail usually reveal overall intentions. First glance, to me, means nothing, and I think that's an intelligent and practical mindset to have in this and other situations.

 

And sorry about my accusation. I had assumed (falsely) that everyone had gotten the news about Nektann by now, since it's been in the OGD for weeks. I suppose, though, that it was silly of me to assume from a sets entry that you have been totally able to keep up with such premature story revelations. I personally have been keeping close, almost obsessive tabs on 2010 sets and story, so I suppose it was unfair to expect that of others. Still, you might want to check some of the high-res Stars images and Stars reviews so you can see why exactly I found it so illogical to think the Piraka was Vezok at this stage.

Link to comment

Then there we have it. I agree that details are the thing that completes a new set's identity as an old character, but to my eyes, they're meaningless if the rest of the new set bears no resemblance whatsoever to the original. Why? Because, for a set to look like an old character, it has to, well, look like him or her. I need to look at the set and see the old character in it, not have to go on a treasure hunt for a few tiny details that might point to its identity in the absence of any larger, overall resemblances.

 

Basically, overall appearance (consisting of color scheme elements and body/mask shape) and details (like the features of a mask) are both things that two sets absolutely must have in common for the new one to appropriately capture the essence of the old. Neither one by itself will suffice, but I think the former outweighs the latter. Vezok vs. Nektann is a good example of the former standing alone; the adaptive armor Nuva vs. the original Nuva is generally true of the latter.

 

I think why I value overall appearances more than details is simply that they do a lot more in the way of visual resemblance, because aesthetic consistency simply depends on them. One might say that overall appearances are the first step of resemblance, and that details are a mandatory following to that. For example, a set with red as a primary color and orange as a secondary color automatically looks like Tahu, and then whether it really is him or not would be determined by the details; say, whether he has the iconic mouth and eyes or slits of the Hau, or a flamesword, or whatever.

 

I -understand- that you don't agree, but please tell me you at least get what I'm saying here. I might not have used the best examples to illustrate every point, but kindly just say whether you understand the gist of it or not, rather than picking through all my examples or trying to turn them against me as you

 

I'm not saying overall appearances are more important than details; I'm also NOT saying that the overall appearance must be exactly the same as before (look at my Tahu Mistika). I'm saying that, to my eyes, details alone might as well be meaningless if the overall appearances are completely different.

 

And hopefully that will be the end of this argument.

Link to comment
Then there we have it. I agree that details are the thing that completes a new set's identity as an old character, but to my eyes, they're meaningless if the rest of the new set bears no resemblance whatsoever to the original. Why? Because, for a set to look like an old character, it has to, well, look like him or her. I need to look at the set and see the old character in it, not have to go on a treasure hunt for a few tiny details that might point to its identity in the absence of any larger, overall resemblances.

 

Basically, overall appearance (consisting of color scheme elements and body/mask shape) and details (like the features of a mask) are both things that two sets absolutely must have in common for the new one to appropriately capture the essence of the old. Neither one by itself will suffice, but I think the former outweighs the latter. Vezok vs. Nektann is a good example of the former standing alone; the adaptive armor Nuva vs. the original Nuva is generally true of the latter.

 

I think why I value overall appearances more than details is simply that they do a lot more in the way of visual resemblance, because aesthetic consistency simply depends on them. One might say that overall appearances are the first step of resemblance, and that details are a mandatory following to that. For example, a set with red as a primary color and orange as a secondary color automatically looks like Tahu, and then whether it really is him or not would be determined by the details; say, whether he has the iconic mouth and eyes or slits of the Hau, or a flamesword, or whatever.

 

I -understand- that you don't agree, but please tell me you at least get what I'm saying here. I might not have used the best examples to illustrate every point, but kindly just say whether you understand the gist of it or not, rather than picking through all my examples or trying to turn them against me as you

 

I'm not saying overall appearances are more important than details; I'm also NOT saying that the overall appearance must be exactly the same as before (look at my Tahu Mistika). I'm saying that, to my eyes, details alone might as well be meaningless if the overall appearances are completely different.

 

And hopefully that will be the end of this argument.

I understand what you're saying. I simply feel differently. It can be compared to real people: as a person ages, their hair will gray, their skin will wrinkle, they might become less muscular, and they might choose to grow facial hair. But the underlying shape of their face, obscured as it might be, will be the key way to identify them, as well as other subtle details like voice or mannerisms. I used to have to think about this sort of thing a great deal back when I did a lot of human-BIONICLE art, and had to depict Matoran, Toa, and Turaga versions of a character.

 

Instant recognizability was not my objective-- rather, I wanted there to be subtle familiarity. I understand how others might prefer similarities to be plain at first glance, but I just think it's more practical to judge things by details. In some cases (the Toa Metru, for instance, or the Phantoka), it would appear that set designers think likewise.

Link to comment

Guest
Add a comment...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...