481 replies to this topic

[Fire Entity]

Well, the choice is really one of convenience for me, as I own Warcraft 3 but not Starcraft 2. I have heard much about the editor, and should probably look into owning a copy soon, but I had hoped the price would sink sooner or later. I can certainly see your point about mods being less valuable in a small community, but hey, if there was anyone here who had the game the might have been interested.

[Bulik]

Have you made any progress on your toa model, JediKnightKrazy?

[The Lonesome Wanderer]

I would like a BZPRPG based fighter game.

[Emzee]

Hi everyone. I talked with Bossman and we decided to make this an immortal official topic.

I would like a BZPRPG based fighter game.

I think that would be pretty cool, but I'd probably go for a BZPRPG shooter, only because there's already a fighting game.

Edited by Emzee, Nov 27 2012 - 10:19 AM.

[Bulik]

Thanks a bunch! I was getting worried that this topic would die. A lot of great ideas have popped up here.

Does anyone know what happened to B:CoD? A few months ago, It was looking like it might actually become a reality.

[The Lonesome Wanderer]

Hi everyone. I talked with Bossman and we decided to make this an immortal official topic.

I would like a BZPRPG based fighter game.

I think that would be pretty cool, but I'd probably go for a BZPRPG shooter, only because there's already a fighting game.

Well, the BZPRPG wouldent transalate into a shooter well. And I think that the story would be easyer to tell in a fighter, adventure game.

[Norik The Student]

Yes, after all, the BZPRPG is ALL abOut the story.

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

The problem with a BZPRPG game is twofold. First, everyone who's actually in the BZPRPG will want to play as their own character, and will probably be offended if their character is not included and others are (and it would be impractical to try to include everybody's characters). Second, the story is not actually that interesting to anyone outside the BZPRPG, because they didn't help create it. All the alliances and guilds and politics mean nothing to someone who isn't affecting the story as it happens. 

 

The only way it would work (and I'm not in the BZPRPG, so I don't know if this is the case) is if the high-level story can actually hold up if you remove all or most of the player characters. In that case, a game in the style of Mass Effect would be really cool, with a deep character creator and lots of conversation options that affect the story. (the actual gameplay could be any genre; Mass Effect is a shooter but a BZPRPG game might work better as a fighter or Zelda-style adventure)

Edited by Jedi Knight Krazy, Nov 30 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[The Lonesome Wanderer]

^ Actually, that would be cool.

[Katuko]

The problem with a BZPRPG game is twofold. First, everyone who's actually in the BZPRPG will want to play as their own character, and will probably be offended if their character is not included and others are (and it would be impractical to try to include everybody's characters). Second, the story is not actually that interesting to anyone outside the BZPRPG, because they didn't help create it. All the alliances and guilds and politics mean nothing to someone who isn't affecting the story as it happens. 
 
The only way it would work (and I'm not in the BZPRPG, so I don't know if this is the case) is if the high-level story can actually hold up if you remove all or most of the player characters. In that case, a game in the style of Mass Effect would be really cool, with a deep character creator and lots of conversation options that affect the story. (the actual gameplay could be any genre; Mass Effect is a shooter but a BZPRPG game might work better as a fighter or Zelda-style adventure)

Well, my game has a character creator of sorts. It would be very hard to offer full customization with mechanical limbs and scope-modded masks and custom weaponry (though simply loading a custom user sprite and applying it to a generic sword could easily be done); but I believe that a "reduced" version of the BZPRPG's setting could work for placing such customization into due to its open-endedness. Of course, sandbox settings based on a co-written story don't translate so well into a video game.

In terms of programming, one could set the species, element/power and graphics of a character with a few variables. Different stats can also be applied. In order to make factions, each could be added into a list that the game keeps track of, as well as your character's reputation within each. A whole lot of variables eventually, but it's definitely possible. However, relations would likely be simplified to "these people fight each other, these do not" and other differences such as trade and denying access to some areas.

If we assume the island is populated by only PCs in an MMO setting, then relations come naturally and we don't really need all the "rep" calculations, but since I don't think any of us here can make an MMO, we're down to NPCs and - as Jedi Knight Crazy says - a very watered-down version of whatever stories might have been told. In fact, only the main plot would be really applicable as a catch-all, and then suddenly we're getting to the point where nothing but the custom staff chars are really different from what we already know. We got Makuta, Rahkshi, some infections here and some mutilation there. Some fight Makuta, some join him, some just drift off on other plots. It'd probably be best to just write a custom storyline and have a Fallout-esque way of making you take it on. That is, the world map is open to you, and while the Main Quest pointer is in one place you can explore absolutely whatever else you like before you eventually feel like going there.

Still, the BZPRPG does indeed base itself on custom storylines, something that would not be viable in a "pre-programmed" action video game. Maybe a tool could be made that allows people to make their own quests for others, but it would not flow as naturally as simply developing a plot as you go.

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

Well, my game has a character creator of sorts. It would be very hard to offer full customization with mechanical limbs and scope-modded masks and custom weaponry (though simply loading a custom user sprite and applying it to a generic sword could easily be done); but I believe that a "reduced" version of the BZPRPG's setting could work for placing such customization into due to its open-endedness. Of course, sandbox settings based on a co-written story don't translate so well into a video game.

In terms of programming, one could set the species, element/power and graphics of a character with a few variables. Different stats can also be applied. In order to make factions, each could be added into a list that the game keeps track of, as well as your character's reputation within each. A whole lot of variables eventually, but it's definitely possible. However, relations would likely be simplified to "these people fight each other, these do not" and other differences such as trade and denying access to some areas.

If we assume the island is populated by only PCs in an MMO setting, then relations come naturally and we don't really need all the "rep" calculations, but since I don't think any of us here can make an MMO, we're down to NPCs and - as Jedi Knight Crazy says - a very watered-down version of whatever stories might have been told. In fact, only the main plot would be really applicable as a catch-all, and then suddenly we're getting to the point where nothing but the custom staff chars are really different from what we already know. We got Makuta, Rahkshi, some infections here and some mutilation there. Some fight Makuta, some join him, some just drift off on other plots. It'd probably be best to just write a custom storyline and have a Fallout-esque way of making you take it on. That is, the world map is open to you, and while the Main Quest pointer is in one place you can explore absolutely whatever else you like before you eventually feel like going there.

Still, the BZPRPG does indeed base itself on custom storylines, something that would not be viable in a "pre-programmed" action video game. Maybe a tool could be made that allows people to make their own quests for others, but it would not flow as naturally as simply developing a plot as you go.
 

No more customization is necessary than what you see in Bionicle Fighter. Anything more would be insane - both for the programmer and for the player that has to sift through all those options.

Player-generated story in a multiplayer game is a challenge that has yet to be solved by the professional game industry. Ordinarily I'd say it's impossible, but we have a very small community here - it might just be possible to make a persistent world with about 10 people in it causing mayhem. Or it could be a game along the lines of DayZ, where there's really no story but a lot of potential for players to make their own - a few super-powered "NPCs" (controlled by admins) could give the story some direction.

Although, with such a small community, it might have to be a turn-based game, or action-limited by time, but that would cause some problems too. Conversations in particular would be tedious. In fact, at this point, we basically have a text-based RPG with graphics and a really limited set of things you can do.

[Katuko]

We'd make an interactive web-app for the BZPRPG, then. Every character gets a sprite and battle music where appropriate, plus a map to keep track of where everyone are.

[Bulik]

We'd make an interactive web-app for the BZPRPG, then. Every character gets a sprite and battle music where appropriate, plus a map to keep track of where everyone are.

This must be done.  I've been waiting for something like this for ages.  No more PMs asking where the @#%%# your character is.  It also should have a slot for your characters extra items.

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

Now we're talking. A web app, I can definitely do.

It probably wouldn't be the BZPRPG, though - makes more sense to start our own, which would be entirely played via a web interface.
Each location would probably have an activity feed, Facebook-style, as well as a list of characters and their statuses. For graphical flair, there could be a big background image based on that location, with each character's sprite positioned somewhere on the background. Could even do some fancy algorithm-ing to cluster together the sprites of characters who are talking to or fighting against each other.

Is anyone good with HTML/CSS/JavaScript? (JavaScript especially) I could use some help if I go anywhere with this idea. Which I might.

[Bulik]

Well...  It would be highly useful if it was BZPRPG.  Not really something to play on, but more as a reference to where Characters are, what plots there are in, what they are doing, any extra items they have acquired, If he is open for interaction, etc.   Just a map of Mata Nui, where you can Zoom in/out to get links to various feeds showing which characters are in which villages, etc., create/upload a sprite of your character, then type in the boxes what your character is doing/all the things I mentioned above.  Because it's a bunch easier to check through an easy-to-use interface than by reading through a bunch of posts in a topic or asking for interaction in the News and Discussion topic.  That would be great IMO, but the 

 

 

 For graphical flair, there could be a big background image based on that location, with each character's sprite positioned somewhere on the background. Could even do some fancy algorithm-ing to cluster together the sprites of characters who are talking to or fighting against each other.

You mention would really seal the deal.  I'm pretty sure my dog can code better than me, but I could attempt to do something on sprites, if you want.

 

This is a great Idea and I hope it can happen.

Edited by Tasty Holiday Beverage, Dec 01 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[Norik The Student]

Well,sad, I don't have a smart phone. But this os a really great ideaaa.

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

@Norik: You wouldn't need a smartphone - a web app is just a web page that's dynamic. BZPower itself, for example, is a web app.

I just realized there's some major problems with the idea:

1. If the app itself is the RPG (which I think is the best approach), it would be, for all intents and purposes, a forum - which means I could never link to it from BZPower. Oops.
2. If it's only a reference for the BZPRPG:
2a. It would depend on everyone in the game using the tool and remembering to update their character's status after every post. If some people aren't using it, it becomes much less useful because it becomes just another place to check for the information you're looking for. If some people haven't updated the information for a while, it becomes useless because you can't depend on the information you see, and you have to do your double-checking anyways.
2b. I don't play the BZPRPG, so I don't have a lot of motivation to build it.
2c. Even if you don't actually do your role-playing on the site, the dynamic features like uploading an image, naming your character, and changing your character's status (beyond a few predefined options like "Open for Interaction" and "Talking with [other character]") would probably violate BZPower's very strict linking policy anyways.

Edited by Jedi Knight Krazy, Dec 02 2012 - 10:16 AM.

[Bulik]

@1:  Good point.  There might be some loophole for that.  After all, Skype would have pretty much the same chat features of what you've been thinking about, and can be linked to in your profile.  .  I suppose asking the staff would clear things up.

 

@2a:  Really, that is the downside of every option not officially part of the BZP forums.  Although, characters are usually doing the same overall thing for a while (One battle actually lasted for months!).  I don't think there is a way to get around this problem

 

@2b: Well, you should

 

@2c:  *Facepalm* I didn't think of that.  I forgot how that could be manipulated.  Maybe a word filter could be implemented 

 

I think this would work as a separate RPG if a word filter could be implemented into the game.  Then all the problems you state would be dealt with.

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

@1:  Good point.  There might be some loophole for that.  After all, Skype would have pretty much the same chat features of what you've been thinking about, and can be linked to in your profile.
 
@2c:  *Facepalm* I didn't think of that.  I forgot how that could be manipulated.  Maybe a word filter could be implemented 
 
I think this would work as a separate RPG if a word filter could be implemented into the game.  Then all the problems you state would be dealt with.

The main reason for BZP's strict linking rules is not so much that inappropriate content can appear on other sites, but because the BZP moderators can't control what appears. Even if we give moderators access, that's a whole other site that they would have to monitor and control. Plus - which forum would moderate this game-app-thing? FCG or RPG?

[Bulik]

Was B:CoD cancelled? I've been playing the old "Phantoka demo" game, and it's reminded me of how awesome a bionicle FPS can be.

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

Not cancelled, per se... I think "temporarily eaten by life" is a more accurate assertion. I haven't seen UltraHau around lately, so I assume he's busy. 

I'd offer to take over as project lead, but A. I'm still pretty busy and B. I'd want to start over with Unity3D instead of Panda and I think UltraHau would be offended .

 

Off-topic: Woah! I got a new spinny! That looks awesome.

[Bulik]

Ah, okay. I was getting worried there. I remember from before that UltraHau finished the engine or something, and you were going to make a simple model of a toa. (Not including time spent for your actual lives), how much Time do you think there will be before any demo or screenshot is released?

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

Ah, okay. I was getting worried there. I remember from before that UltraHau finished the engine or something, and you were going to make a simple model of a toa. (Not including time spent for your actual lives), how much Time do you think there will be before any demo or screenshot is released?

Well, I haven't heard much from UltraHau, and I haven't made any progress on the Toa model since I posted that screenshot. So, at this rate, we should have a playable demo in... four years?

[UltraHau]

Hey, I'm still alive and kickin.

 

Like JKK said, it's true I have less free time to work on CoD, but as it is now, the engine is basically ready for a demo, so all that's needed is some artwork and we'll be ready to roll.

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

Okee dokee then, here's my lousy Toa: 

 

 

We will clearly need a specialized artist before long... but it's better than a cube, eh?

 

 

Here's the .blend download - feel free to make any tweaks you'd like. It's unrigged and unanimated, so he's gonna be hovering around the battlefield with arms outstretched. And he's untextured, so he's going to either be gray, or a solid color to indicate his team. 

[Bulik]

Huzzah! Progress!  His position reminds me somewhat of an Execution via rifle squad 

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

Huzzah! Progress!  His position reminds me somewhat of an Execution via rifle squad 

 

That's the traditional pose for an unrigged 3d character - it makes it easy to hook the arms up to a skeleton without affecting the torso. At least, I think that's why they do it.

[Katuko]

That is correct. The arms are kept straight and at a 90 degree angle to the torso, and every other limb is in a neutral straight-angle setting. This does indeed make it easier to rig for animation, and it helps you check proportions guide.

[Norik The Student]

It's not that bad, just needs some more armour and details.

[Bulik]

It's not that bad, just needs some more armour and details.

The Model's appearance is generaly meaningless, for it is just a placeholder.  When the game's critical interior is finished, a better model will no doubt replace it.  But I do agree that it is fairly decent for the time being.

 

IMO, the arms and legs look like French Fries

Edited by Tasty Holiday Beverage, Dec 10 2012 - 03:22 PM.

[jamesster]

I'm looking for some feedback on the presentation and general visual style of something I'm working on. The game is based off of the first three LEGO themes (town, castle, and space), and the gameplay is sort of like an old school open world action-adventure game with RPG elements and modular town/castle/moonbase construction. The basic game structure can be summed up as "enter level > explore and fight enemies > collect blueprints and LEGO bricks > use blueprints and bricks to re-build destroyed central area > defeat boss > get blueprint for a module that warps you to the next area" - plus some basic player leveling and the like. The over-arching plot is also pretty simple, it can be summed up as "There is a time-traveling bandit destroying stuff and using the pieces to build machines to help him destroy more stuff, stop him before he completes whatever he's planning." Of course, there's more to it than that, but that's the gist of it, I'll go into detail when I make a topic for it. All I'm looking for right now is, as I said, feedback on the presentation of it. Here's the four options:

Isometric camera + Cel shading
Isometric camera + Standard shading
Standard camera + Cel shading
Standard camera + Standard shading

Obviously, there's not much in the part of the scene shown there, just the player and a simple model (from set 1592 Town Square if anybody's wondering). Also, ignore the weird terrain near the player and book shop, I was just messing around with it a bit to test how the player slides down steep slopes. There's also no real GUI, and the grass texture doesn't tile properly - it's very much a WIP. Most of the core systems are in place though.

Personally, I prefer the isometric camera and cel shading, and so far, so has everybody else I've talked to as well (except for one person who seems to strongly dislike cel shading for some reason I will never understand ). The game uses retro LEGO themes, and from what I've gathered, isometric games were fairly common back then. I prefer the cel shading because it stands out among fan games (from the ones I've played anyway), and adds a sort of comic-like feel to the game, which seems fitting as the game is partially inspired by 80s LEGO comics like Captain Indigo, Jim Spaceborn, and Castle Kids. Also, I have concepts for a few more LEGO games sitting in the back of my head right now that will certainly use the standard camera and shading if they're ever created, so I want to make this one different from the theoretical other games. Your thoughts?

Edited by jamesster, Dec 12 2012 - 02:29 PM.

[The Lonesome Wanderer]

Definitaly Standard View. Not sure about the cell shading and such.

[jamesster]

In the third image, there's two main things not making it look very good. First, the skybox and terrain clash horribly with the more cartoony style of the building and minifigure, and secondly, the stiff, rigid minifigure movement just doesn't seem very fitting for more cartoon-style visuals (though it works fine with the more realistic shading, it just looks like a real life minifigure walking around). If I go with cel shading, I would also animate the minifigure to be a bit more freeform, and make the environment the same style as the LEGO stuff. I'd also like to try to get some black outlines along the edges of stuff if I go with cel shading. It would be a fair bit of extra work (for several reasons I don't really feel like explaining at the moment), but it would make things look a lot nicer.

Oh, and it is actually spelled cel shading.

Edited by jamesster, Dec 12 2012 - 04:21 PM.

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

I don't have a strong preference on the camera angle, though I'd lean toward isometric because it's more retro and I don't see it very often. If your game is action-heavy, though, I would recommend a perspective camera instead.

 

I'm ordinarily a huge fan of cel shading, but in this case the standard shading just looks much better. I think it's primarily because of the specular highlights; it looks shiny like real plastic. If you could somehow combine the cel shading with the realistic specular highlights, I think you'd have yourself the perfect art style. 

Edited by Jedi Knight Krazy, Dec 12 2012 - 05:18 PM.

[Zephyria]

As I said elsewhere, I would definately prefer the Isometric view, especially because it brings back memories of several of the best Role Playing Games I've ever played. Fallout 1 + 2, Baldur's Gate, and Diablo.

And I would much prefer cel shading because I believe that cartoony visuals appear great, even after so much time has passed. Look at Jet Set Radio.

Edited by Zephyria, Dec 12 2012 - 10:00 PM.

[jamesster]

Ok, I'm pretty sure I'll be sticking with the isometric camera. Regarding the shading, I tried the hybrid Jedi Knight Krazy suggested (in the center of the image), and compared it to the two other options:

Edited by jamesster, Dec 13 2012 - 09:12 PM.

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

Hmmm... it's hard to say which looks better without seeing them in motion. Out of the pictures, hybrid has the most depth and contrast, but this comparison isn't very fair to the standard shader because your ambient light is a bit bright and your directional lighting is really low, which makes it look flat. 

 

But yeah, I like the look of the hybrid I'm a bit biased, though.

 

And I saw your signature. And I lost. Why?

Edited by Jedi Knight Krazy, Dec 13 2012 - 11:04 PM.

[jamesster]

Ok, I re-did the ramp texture for lighting, and also tweaked the lights themselves a bit. Here's the result:



And yes, I enjoy making people lose the game.
 
Edit: Ok, this is getting annoying, the image and sentence after it vanished when I submitted the post, for the second time today. It works if I edit it back in...

Edited by jamesster, Dec 14 2012 - 12:31 AM.

[The Lonesome Wanderer]

On the BZPRPG game idea: Why not just do one of the old settings, with new characters.

[Zerot]

Could somebody please explain to me what or link me to the BZPRPG ... Sorry, I haven't been on here for several years.