41464 replies to this topic

[Constructman: Black Knight]

That was Nuju bunnying my character! My plan was to wait for the next big fight and when he appears, shoot him while staying out of sight as if he was a deer! It was Nuju who turned him into an cool dude!

[Katuko]

Well, I think that the only reason that these big guys are so much more powerful is the fact that there is some sort of "stupidity field" around them that decreases the IQ of their foes to like 60. Take for example Heuani decapitating my hunter. A real hunter probably wouldn't behave like that, would they?

Yes: Plot armor. Staff characters will die when the plot demands, simply put. Trying to engage them alone, or even seek them out when they are doing stuff in a secluded, not-for-player-eyes, is a death sentence. Having played some RPGs before, I know this is what GMs do to protect their plot from their players, and it's a hard lesson to learn. Sometimes the staff character just brushes you off, other times there is violence. I believe a simple trashing should be enough, usually, but Nuju appears to enjoy straight-up murder if he feels someone gets too touchy on the plot. It helps keep others in line, so that the plot may proceed.

In your hunter's case, he magically tracked Heuani at the mountain, in a place that was basically described as extremely tiring to climb and also hidden from anyone but him. Then he goes around with a picture asking for him. Considering how this guy slips through the shadows and is on top of the current plot; he will only be found when he's meant to be found. Sucks, but that's how it is. It's also why I avoid dealing with the staff plot. I just force my way into it by making my meatshields loyal team members start a big bug battle.

Also, there is one thing that all of these big shots are vulnerable to: SNIPERS (yeah, I know, the weakest TF2 class). It's simply: If your skakdi or vortixx has a rifle, go hide in a bush or in the forest, wait until your target comes long, and then BOOM, HEADSHOT. It doesn't even need to be a gun; a toa could do the same job too with their elemental powers.

Problem is, we shot Heuani in the back with a Lightstone rifle at the hive attack, which only served to make him annoyed. He sliced through the rifle a second later. The exploding lightstone that actually stunned him for a second was a co-op attack, though it was also shrugged off in favor for him making a hasty getaway once teamwork started getting closer to hurting him. It should be noted, though, that the Rahkshi-killing, berserking Turaga were put down fairly instantly, compared the the Rahkshi themselves, which took a lot to defeat earlier. Again, power levels vary according to the plot, when it comes to staff. They are simply not bound by the same rules as players, which can be annoying when there also are no actual stats to go by as far as combat goes to show the difference in pure numbers.

Edited by Katuko, Sep 25 2012 - 03:01 PM.

[Ilyusha Blokfase]

"Stupidity field?"

Not to sound mean, but you're the one who decided that hunting down a guy who can literally travel through shadows was a good idea. And aside from that, you made an unlicensed portrait.

But, really. Hunting somebody that travels through shadows and doesn't have to show his face to everybody around isn't a good idea. That'll just make them mad, and then they'll pop up all silent like, and then decapitate you. Or, you know, get you locked up to your head in blankety blank and then decapitate you.

It's simple. If you don't know what you're going up against, you're going to lose, and obviously, your 'Hunter' didn't.

[Dallas Winston]

All of the above posts are true. Your boy started following a thread better left untouched, and he got nailed for it.

-Teezy

[The Lorax]

Also, there is one thing that all of these big shots are vulnerable to: SNIPERS (yeah, I know, the weakest TF2 class). It's simply: If your skakdi or vortixx has a rifle, go hide in a bush or in the forest, wait until your target comes long, and then BOOM, HEADSHOT. It doesn't even need to be a gun; a toa could do the same job too with their elemental powers.

Problem is, we shot Heuani in the back with a Lightstone rifle at the hive attack, which only served to make him annoyed. He sliced through the rifle a second later. The exploding lightstone that actually stunned him for a second was a co-op attack, though it was also shrugged off in favor for him making a hasty getaway once teamwork started getting closer to hurting him. It should be noted, though, that the Rahkshi-killing, berserking Turaga were put down fairly instantly, compared the the Rahkshi themselves, which took a lot to defeat earlier. Again, power levels vary according to the plot, when it comes to staff. They are simply not bound by the same rules as players, which can be annoying when there also are no actual stats to go by as far as combat goes to show the difference in pure numbers.

This is pretty much it. If Heuani's power was governed by the same rules as everyone elses', it would be much harder for Nuju to direct the plot in the ways he wants it to go. Heuani is like a failsafe, a way to set things back on track when they wander off into areas that might kill the main story. In these situations, Heuani can have all the power he needs to set things right, even if anyone else doing the same things would be considered very god-mode.

The lightstone example is a good one, so I'll elaborate on it. Here is what BS01 says about its effects:

The Lightstone Rifle is capable of firing electrified Lightstones which shatter when they make impact. They can then stun or blind the target, destabilizing structures and weakening beings of Shadow, like Rahkshi and Makuta.

TL;DR: Being hit should stun or blind most beings, and it's worse for shadow users.

Here is what Heuani did:

This trick, though, cost Heuani's attention for an instant - the instant when a Sanok-driven lightstone collided with his lower back. Heuani grunted as the lightstone broke against his dark armor, but bruised him and for a moment disoriented him with its light energy. He wheeled around, saw the glint of a rifle, and immediately dissolved into the shadows of the ground, as though suddenly sucked into a sand trap of liquid darkness. He emerged again next to its shooter, Dekuna. With a whistling blow, Heuani slashed the rifle's barrel off, rendering it useless. The Toa of Shadow grabbed Dekuna by the neck with his free hand and, with a massive strength that belied his size, threw Dekuna headlong into a tree trunk.

Two very different responses, but in that situation, the first would have had massive impacts on the events of the staff plot. Had Heuani lost that fight and been captured/killed, Nuju wouldn't have been able to have him release the Parakukafied Turaga, which was an important event which needed to happen. Sometimes, at the GM's discretion, staff characters need to be able to do stuff like that in order to keep the game running smoothly and fun for everyone, even if a few PCs get butchered along the way.

[BenLuke]

Beh, I think completely ignoring something that should have at least put a dint in him is cheap move. But then, Heuani basically runs on plot armor and OP'ednesss, doesn't he? *Sigh. . .*

[The Snark Knight]

He didn't completely ignore it, Ben.

Heuani has Ben stated many times to be stronger, faster, and more durable than the average Toa. The shot bruised him, and stunned him for a moment. That's more than most people ever manage to do to him.

[Dallas Winston]

I guess some of you missed the memo at the start of the year where BZPRPG Canon characters are on a whole 'nother power level from regular PCs?

Wait. Found it.

To balance this, though, staff will also control "BZPRPG Canon" characters that may or may not resemble personal characters; the purpose of these characters is to either help or hinder the players in the course of the game. They can have their own storylines and interests and dreams, but their first priority will be to the game and to the players. BZPRPG Canon characters may seem like regular PCs, but they most certainly are not. These guys will probably be at a much higher power level than everyone else, and will probably be able to kick-butt at will... but they are here to move the game along, help/hinder the players.

-Teezy

Edited by Tyler Durden, Sep 25 2012 - 04:00 PM.

[BenLuke]

Ah, no, I got that memo.

Doesn't mean I like it.

Edited by BenLuke-116, Sep 25 2012 - 04:00 PM.

[Dallas Winston]

...Don't see why you wouldn't like it. I mean, what do people expect when they go up against a guy with a totally new element, charisma enough to brainwash you, your family, and your pets to boot with untold reserves of power and a snug little crib right beside Makuta's? You're going up against a member of the Super Evil A-Team here; if it were that easy to hurt him, he wouldn't have left the hive battle.

I can't imagine why you guys are fussing now, unless it's "Well, we knew Tuck said something about Canon characters being ridiculously powerful and able to kill us all, but we didn't think there would BE one..."

-Teezy

[BenLuke]

I prefer villains, and heroes for that matter, who defeat their opponents by out-planing and out-witting them, not just because they're more magic then everybody else.

Obligatory macro:

[Dallas Winston]

I prefer

Right there. It's a subjective thing; a majority of people don't follow Heuani to battle him, they follow him because he's genuinely intriguing to read about (oh, and he's maaaaad hot) and he pushes the plot forward in a unique, fresh way. Saying he's built purely on being MAGIHK~ is a ridiculous statement to make.

-Teezy

[Constructman: Black Knight]

I didn't mean lightstone rifle; I meant REAL Sniper rifle, like Jyra has

[The Snark Knight]

I didn't mean lightstone rifle; I meant REAL Sniper rifle, like Jyra has

That, would do even less. What part of "more durable" doesn't make sense? Furthermore, Heuani controls shadows. He would know you were there simply because you cast a shadow.

Also, in proper grammar, "sniper" doesn't get capitalized.

Edited by Krayzikk Champion of RPGs, Sep 25 2012 - 04:25 PM.

[Katuko]

...Don't see why you wouldn't like it. I mean, what do people expect when they go up against a guy with a totally new element, charisma enough to brainwash you, your family, and your pets to boot with untold reserves of power and a snug little crib right beside Makuta's? You're going up against a member of the Super Evil A-Team here; if it were that easy to hurt him, he wouldn't have left the hive battle.

My personal problem with Heuani is not his sheer power, which is expected. He can be worth a hundred Toa, that's fine, I know not to jump him unnecessarily. I have a problem with the way his attacks usually involves swaying another character's emotion (such as the charisma, which is extremely subjective to everyone) or simply assume a character will respond a certain way and gives no chance of response when a player would have written their fighting action differently.

I mean, sure, it may not matter so much if a character uses a kick or a sword or an elemental blast if it's going to be ineffectual anyways, but to the player on the receiving end it's the difference between feeling outmatched and overpowered and feeling negated and overwritten.

Edited by Katuko, Sep 25 2012 - 04:27 PM.

[BenLuke]

Frankly, the only reason I follow Heuani at all is because I won't to find a way to kill him, it makes sense giving some of my character motivation, and I think it would be cool. I personally don't find all that charismatic, although he is certainly better written then most. I mostly I agree with the point Katuko just made.

Yes, this all completely subjective, I never assumed it wasn't.

[Constructman: Black Knight]

Well, assuming Heuani's head is about the toughness of a soldier's helmet and I've got a Dragunov...

[TX Wade]

Hold up: since when are we allowed snipers in this game?

[The Snark Knight]

Vortixx. Not the exact same as a modern sniper, but quite close.

[Vezok's Friend]

I wouldn't assume Vortixx tech automatically includes the possibility of a Bionicle-version M82. Any official word on firearms like that and where we draw a line?
I mean a lighstone Minigun would probably be useful, but sounds a bit over the top, doesn't it?

[The Snark Knight]

That is the definition of over the top.

Well, there have been several such weapons in the game. There's st least one that I believe was run by Nuju, but I would have to check.

If people followed the rules, technically speaking all tech has to be approved.

But I don't know for sure. If regular pistols and rifles can get approved, I wouldn't say a sniper is much of a stretch.

[Constructman: Black Knight]

Nuju approved the rifle. And it only has an ammo capacity of one, so even if she can reload really quickly (which she can), it still creates a blatantly large opening for foes to exploit. Unless she's hiding in a bush, which brings me back to my original point...

If Jyra's totally hidden in a bush, Heauani should only be able to detect the bush's shadow. And if he has to keep track of every single shadow on the battlefield, wouldn't his logic circuits crash?

[Master of Masks]

Constructman, it's one of those things you have to deal with in the game.

Heuani is for all intents and purposes indestructible, possibly the deadliest thing on Mata Nui with the exception of Makuta himself. This is basically the right hand of a dark god we're talking about. He is not going to be a pushover. He is not a normal Toa, he's effectively a demi-god. He's not as powerful as the Big Bad but he's pretty terrifying in the amount of power he wields in one finger alone.

He is staff character, this means he cannot die unless Nuju wills it. He is intergal to the plot and for just random guy to kill him, well that's just not going to happen. The big bad is rarely killed by some mook.

In this case Jyra is the mook. Or any other Toa who isn't really in that prophecy, or any Vortixx who isn't in that prophecy, anyone really.

Edited by The Mask, Sep 25 2012 - 05:09 PM.

[The Snark Knight]

Mask, thank you for one of your logical posts.

In addition the the reasons above, it still wouldn't work. He would still be able to detect her move into the bush, if he really wanted to. Furthermore, the only time of day when her shadow would be completely disguised by the bush is high noon, when the sun is directly overhead. And even then, it wouldn't be perfect, as there are varying levels of shadow within a bush since it isn't one dense piece. A person's shadow would disrupt that.

And even if you did get a shot off without being noticed, he could hear it. And he is able to instantly travel through shadows. Unless your bullet goes faster than the speed of sound.... Not to mention, we have never, ever seen Heuani use his ful potential. He enjoys toying with his opponents, and has never gone all out on anyone that we know of. Ever.

Edited by Krayzikk Champion of RPGs, Sep 25 2012 - 05:08 PM.

[Vezok's Friend]

Well, Hiemalis standoff with him was pretty intense, but then again, I remember that being more a battle of wills than physical confrontation. If I controlled a Toa like Heuani I could think of any number of ways to raise nothing short of Karzhani; and Nuju is devious when it comes to this game, so who knows where Heuani's power-limit is.

[Katuko]

If there is another big players-vs-staff battle like the hive attack, then I can see a sniper shot harming Heuani. Alone or even in a small group, however, an ambush will likely not do a thing due to the Power of Plot.

[Bulik]

Constructman, you're going to need to face the situation: Heuani is Achilles without a heel.

Beh, I think completely ignoring something that should have at least put a dint in him is cheap move. But then, Heuani basically runs on plot armor and OP'ednesss, doesn't he? *Sigh. . .*

SHHHHH!!!

Nuju is watching! you will get smited!

[BenLuke]

Last I check, stating an opinion in the discussion topic won't get you smited. Being generally obnoxious both in-game and in Discussion does, but I'm being neither of those things, I hope.

Heuani is Achilles without a heel.

This basically sums up why I'm not fond of him. You'll notice that his only listed weakness is something that doesn't even exist in the game as of yet, I'm making a character with "Psionics" as his/her only weakness wouldn't go other well.

But oh well, there's nothing that can be done about that until my conquest of BZPower is complete for now, so there's no use railing against it in here.

[Katuko]

Nuju is watching! you will get smited!

I do not think Nuju will smite any character for something the player said, unless that player is exceedingly obnoxious and/or breaks the rules in other ways.

[The Snark Knight]

Nuju is watching! you will get smited!

I do not think Nuju will smite any character for something the player said, unless that player is exceedingly obnoxious and/or breaks the rules in other ways.

That's only happened once. It resulted in a three month-ban. The player never came back.

[Bulik]

Nuju is watching! you will get smited!

I do not think Nuju will smite any character for something the player said, unless that player is exceedingly obnoxious and/or breaks the rules in other ways.

I'm joking, but when someone dissaproves of something relating to him, I feel a chill go down my spine and feel like I'm being watched.

Edited by Bulik, Sep 25 2012 - 05:43 PM.

[Katuko]

You are too paranoid, then. If all Nuju did was go around and smite characters right and left, then we either wouldn't play this RPG, or we would ignore him in favor of some other staff GM.

[Bulik]

You are too paranoid, then. If all Nuju did was go around and smite characters right and left, then we either wouldn't play this RPG, or we would ignore him in favor of some other staff GM.

I'm just wierd like that.

[The Snark Knight]

Guys, I can say without a doubt, Nuju is not terrifying.

Unless you misbehave, and break rules. Or make an expy. Then you'd better run.

[Constructman: Black Knight]

What's so wrong with expies? The thing that really bugs me is when people make a character the wrong gender for their element (male toa of water for example).

Also, what's the symbol usually used to identify the Makuta? The Kanohi Kraakhan?

[Vezok's Friend]

Relax people. Nuju's a tough GM and a really nice guy, we've hung out a little at Brickfair some time back.

Oh and Constructman: What's your problem with male Toa of water? I always found the idea of element-specific genders was quite limiting. My first RPG character ever was a male Toa of water, so, I feel spoken to ^^

[Constructman: Black Knight]

Off gender characters just... Bug me.

[Toa Xemnas of Crystal]

Also, what's the symbol usually used to identify the Makuta? The Kanohi Kraakhan?

Makuta has no symbol, as far as I know. And remember, this is not Makuta Teridax- this is just plain old "Makuta". We don't know if he has a Kraakhan or not. It's possible, but that's something only Nuju knows.

[Half a Cup of EW]

What's so wrong with expies? The thing that really bugs me is when people make a character the wrong gender for their element (male toa of water for example).

Also, what's the symbol usually used to identify the Makuta? The Kanohi Kraakhan?

Your pet peeve is purely personal preference; expies are widely disliked because they are inherently unoriginal and un-BIONICLE. By their very nature, they are ripoffs of other characters, and nobody likes a ripoff.

Makuta's symbol is most likely the Makuta-stone seen in the 2001 animations.

[snoip lion]

My issue with expies is that they feel like such an empty shell of a character. It isn't about the originality for me.

Why would you purposefully play a character as a shell? This game is about creating stories and characters that intrigue and interest you in a way you don't feel anywhere else, not Sonic the Hedgehog; for example, in Bionicle form.

This is supposed to be an art, and plagiarism isn't art. It's boring and heartless, and isn't intriguing or interesting at all.

Edited by We Are Legion, Sep 25 2012 - 06:17 PM.