41464 replies to this topic

[Constructman: Black Knight]

So if a character wanted to gather a whole bunch of makuta followers in one area or summon a major servant of the Makuta, what symbol should he shoot into the sky?

[Vezok's Friend]

^What legion said^

Sure, it's in line with official canon, but even that is not fixed 100% on the genders. Nothing says we can't have male Toa of psionics, or water. Or female Toa of fire. It's personal preference.


As for expies: As cool as Optimus Prime or Altair or whatever other characters from other stories are, why write another character if you could come up with an awesome character of your own?

As for Makuta symbols:
http://biosector01.c..._Carvings_2.png
http://www.collectin.../im/0003277.jpg
http://biosector01.c...antoka_Logo.PNG

Edited by Vezok's Friend, Sep 25 2012 - 06:24 PM.

[Toa Xemnas of Crystal]

^This^

As for Makuta symbols:
http://biosector01.c..._Carvings_2.png
http://www.collectin.../im/0003277.jpg
http://biosector01.c...antoka_Logo.PNG

Well, there's your answer. But probably the first one, as the last two weren't seen on Mata-Nui.

[Constructman: Black Knight]

There's three in the first one

[Toa Xemnas of Crystal]

Sure, it's in line with official canon, but even that is not fixed 100% on the genders. Nothing says we can't have male Toa of psionics, or water. Or female Toa of fire. It's personal preference.


As for expies: As cool as Optimus Prime or Altair or whatever other characters from other stories are, why write another character if you could come up with an awesome character of your own?

I agree with Veef here- I too have always found that the gender-orientation of elements was always limiting, so I personally love the fact that we can have characters of any gender for any element.

The reason that expies are strongly disliked here and everywhere is that they're unoriginal: they don't promote the creativity of thinking up your own story for your character, they're simply copies of something else that already exists.

[Constructman: Black Knight]

well, I wasn't going to actually copy the story into this one; I just thought it cool for one of my characters to have those powers of my favourite characters

Also, there are three symbols in the first picture; which one is the makuta symbol?

Edited by Constructman, Sep 25 2012 - 06:39 PM.

[Toa Xemnas of Crystal]

well, I wasn't going to actually copy the story into this one; I just thought it cool for one of my characters to have those powers of my favourite characters

Also, there are three symbols in the first picture; which one is the makuta symbol?

Oh, if you want your character to have some other dude's powers, I think that's fine- after all, basing one character on another is not expying. Take for example Ghosthands's character Lohkar- he was based on Jack Sparrow, but he gradually evolved to be his own character.

All three symbols are Makuta symbols, it seems.

[Nuju Metru]

Wow, this has been a really interesting read. I especially enjoyed seeing you guys give your opinions on Heuani... now that I'm here, I can address a few recurring points:

1) Heuani is, as should be clear from his position in my profiles post, a Staff Canon character; I created him to be one, and he's always been one. This means that his primary role, no matter how much fun I have with him on the side, is to keep the plot in line and basically be Makuta's hand of direct influence in the world of the game. Canon reasons - which I will go into more later - aside, Heuani is as such more powerful than other player characters by a wide margin; he has to be in order to fulfill his role as an IC tool. Imagine trying to saw through a log with a saw made out of wood; it'd be a much longer and less effective process than using a metal saw.

2) Heuani has a purpose in the world of the game, so you shouldn't expect him to be felled until it's his time. Accusations of plot-armor, in other words, are true: however, this doesn't mean that Heuani can't be detained or injured. To reference the lightstone rifle example - that hurt him. He was still aching in the back later in the battle, after he'd withdrawn. But you also have to realize that Heuani isn't the kind who stays and fights longer than he needs to. The reason he joined in the hive battle, mostly, was to burn time until he wanted to unveil the Parakuka'd Turaga; it's contrary to his nature to stay around and fight until the bitter end. Heuani's smarter than that, and we all know he has no honor.

3) He has a mortal weakness. Note how in his profile it says "unknown" rather than "nonexistent." For obvious reasons (to avoid inevitable metagaming attempts - who wouldn't want to "accidentally" find out what kills the Dragon?), this weakness is not public. Nobody has been lucky enough to strike it, yet, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Any further accusations of Heuani being invincible are, as such, henceforth groundless and just serve to hurt my feelings. Do you guys really believe I have no sense of fair play?

4) When it comes to killing PCs, Heuani kills for one of two reasons: adding realism or snubbing unrealism. In the hive battle, he killed a few PCs because I felt it would've been logical for a Toa of his stature to take a few lives when in combat: that was adding realism to the hive fight. People die in war, especially when taking on forces stronger than they are. But also bear in mind that what Heuani didn't do was kill every last person who attacked him. I don't play this game to kill PCs. If that was my (or Heuani's) goal of existence, a lot more characters would be dead.
Next, we can look at Constructman's Hunter character, who somehow stumbled upon Heuani even after I had stated in my post that he was in an isolated location, and who subsequently insta-itemed a drawing of the Toa of Shadow and showed it to anybody who would look. These actions of the Hunter, who not only decided to tangle himself up in Heuani's business (an easy way to ask for trouble) but also did so in a metagaming way, I deemed to be unlikely, to say the least. Killing the Hunter was the most realistic way to end an unrealistic situation.

5) In the BZPRPG Canon, Heuani's root of existence definitely licenses him plenty of raw power. I think many of you may have good guesses as to what that root is.

6) When I'm thrust into a situation where I, Nuju, have to fight many PCs at once, it's hard for me to keep track of the action. Hosting such confrontations, as I did during the Rahkshi battles earlier in the year, isn't an easy undertaking, but I like doing it anyway because it's a good opportunity for you guys to try your skills against an enemy definitively stronger than you, and see how you fare. But accommodating even a half-dozen uncoordinated attacks is hard, and I do my best to incorporate all the action I can. In the case of Heuani's battle during the hive attack, I was trying to keep up with maybe ten different characters' simultaneous motions. In such situations, I'll admit that I can become stressed and perhaps not play my best; I'm sorry if Heuani's battle style seemed implausible or unfair to anyone. If it had been a concerted effort by the same beings, summed up in one nice post, I probably would have been able to reply more accurately. In this case, unity of attacks is the key to striking blows.

7) Heuani doesn't bunny your characters. I bunny your characters, which is fully within my powers as GM if I deem the situation worthy. Heuani's charisma is the "plot reason" he's able to do this. While I do try to make him actively charismatic through my writing, I know that as players, you'll inevitably look at Heuani and see a deadly snake rather than a likable person. For those of you unwilling to accept his charisma as a personality trait, just consider it an additional power in his arsenal.

8) If you look at a one-on-one encounter Heuani had with a character (see Heuani vs. Hiemalis) you'll notice that Heuani behaves very differently with a single opponent than he does against masses of enemies. I have more fun that way, and anybody who had the guts to take on Heuani today in a one-on-one duel would almost certainly end up living to see the end of it, if they dueled well. I hope I'll have the opportunity to let a few such fights happen sometime soon.

9) I don't try to be scary. I think you guys overestimate my scariness a lot. And I get sad when I see that somebody doesn't appreciate Heuani as a character: if you're one of those people, I hope I've addressed the reason you dislike him above and I hope I've changed your mind. Let me know if I haven't.

Feel free to ask any questions you may have pertaining to Heuani, and I'll do my best to answer them!

[Dreadheart]

And... I'm back, temporarily. Did I miss anything exciting?

[Constructman: Black Knight]

A big discussion about Heuani and about expies

[Dallas Winston]

spaceballs opener style explanation post

a sadist never reveals his tricks you

<3

-Teezy

Edited by Tyler Durden, Sep 25 2012 - 06:54 PM.

[ZHX]

Alright guys. This something to remember for next time.

Power levels. Screw them. Bringing them up again will lead to pointless discussion.

[Bulik]

9) I don't try to be scary. I think you guys overestimate my scariness a lot. And I get sad when I see that somebody doesn't appreciate Heuani as a character: if you're one of those people, I hope I've addressed the reason you dislike him above and I hope I've changed your mind. Let me know if I haven't.

Yes, we do overestimate that alot. I appreciate Heuani as an incredible character, too. It's just for some reason, staff have this wierd "intimidation factor" to people who don't know them personally.

[ZHX]

Emzee is the scary one.

That is all.

[Emzee]

I feel that I should add my two cents here as well since I have not one, but two Staff characters (who will be getting involved in the main plot later in the year).

Honestly, I think some may be looking at this the wrong way. While Heuani does have an air of invincibility to him, I'd try to think of him less as invincible and more just a character who is undeniably more skilled and charismatic than you are. And that's just how it is. There's no 'what if,' because such a scenario, no matter how plausible, is not allowed because of the boundaries we've placed (with the intention of challenging the players). Consider Vidar and Ronkshou, the 'other' Staff characters. I don't think anyone here thinks that either of them are invincible or overpowered, and they're not supposed to be. They are, however, intended to be stronger than any other Toa in this game save for Heuani and the Chosen Toa, because of plot. It's literally what you all signed up for.

I don't think I ever said this, but when I first created Vidar and Ronkshou at the start of this plot, they were intended to represent the upper-bound of power and skill; if you had a character that had even a snowball's chance of besting them in combat, then that meant your character was too powerful for this game. Simple as that. Unfortunately, it might be difficult to actually enforce that while being 100% realistic all the time. (Old Man Trivia: In the very old days of the BZPRPG, players could get punished OOC for even try to attack, much less wound, a staff character.).

That's really why I can't really take issue with Heuani doing some of the things that he's done. This particular plot requires it, and, in the case of my characters (since Toa of Shadow aren't even playable, but Toa of Electricity and Air are), no one should be more powerful or skilled then them anyway.

(Some More Old Man Trivia: In the very old days of the BZPRPG, players were highly discouraged from having Toa (more specifically, non-Matoran) characters precisely to prevent such issues we have today from happening).

Edited by Emzee, Sep 25 2012 - 07:54 PM.

[Bulik]

Yay! Old Man Trivia!

(Some More Old Man Trivia: In the very old days of the BZPRPG, players were highly discouraged from having Toa (more specifically, non-Matoran) characters precisely to prevent such issues we have today from happening).

I agree with the discouraging to have toa thing, hence why all my characters, save 1, are matoran.

[Toa Xemnas of Crystal]

(Old Man Trivia: In the very old days of the BZPRPG, players could get punished OOC for even try to attack, much less wound, a staff character.).
(Some More Old Man Trivia: In the very old days of the BZPRPG, players were highly discouraged from having Toa (more specifically, non-Matoran) characters precisely to prevent such issues we have today from happening).

Wow, I guess you learn something new every day. I guess the staff these days are much more lenient than back in the really olden days.
And from personal experience, I think it's a tad more fun to play as Matoran- not having any special powers or perks makes them more difficult to play as, but you become more skilled as you go along. Which is why I'm probably going to only have one Toa character next year, maybe two at the most. The other(s) will be Matoran.

[The Lonesome Wanderer]

Where was the BZPRPG13 post that keeps getting referenced?

[BenLuke]

3) He has a mortal weakness. Note how in his profile it says "unknown" rather than "nonexistent." For obvious reasons (to avoid inevitable metagaming attempts - who wouldn't want to "accidentally" find out what kills the Dragon?), this weakness is not public. Nobody has been lucky enough to strike it, yet, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

Current Agenda:

• Find Heuani's weakness.
• Think up a plausible way for this to be discovered IC.
• ???
• Profit!

[Dallas Winston]

heuani's weakness:

scarves

and men who wear them

-Teezy

[BenLuke]

It all makes sense now!

[Mr. Peanuts]

heuani's weakness:

scarves

and men who wear them

-Teezy

So Heuani's weak to scarves and their wearers. And there's one of each in the Wanderer's Company.

Welp.

Heuani Assault Idea #1: Next smiting, just call in the friendly neighborhood exile with a fondness for trusty trail mix.

Edited by World's #1 Dad, Sep 25 2012 - 08:44 PM.

[snoip lion]

We already confirmed that Heuani's weakness was all the Toa on the island fighting him at the exact same time.

C'mon guys.

[Constructman: Black Knight]

Kal Grochi has eliminated one of the characters I had the highest hopes for: Jyra, the sniper I had planned to use to eliminate Heuani, Ronkshou,. Vidar, and Echelon.

[Kaitholas Cage]

*Kaithas writes something down on a clipboard. It looks like he's doing complicated math.*

Got a few possibilities here.

[Constructman: Black Knight]

wut?

[Ilyusha Blokfase]

Kal Grochi has eliminated one of the characters I had the highest hopes for: Jyra, the sniper I had planned to use to eliminate Heuani, Ronkshou,. Vidar, and Echelon.

Is this where I bow?

I just love having my chaotic-neutral-ish assassin characters play hero at some moments, and prove to be helping the bad side even then.

[Kaitholas Cage]

*straps scientific goggles on*

1. Weakness to protodermis cage. Unlikely.
2. Mistletoe.
Got a few more.

[Constructman: Black Knight]

Protodermis cage... Wait, are toa seals allowed ingame?

[JL v2]

Jyra against Echelon (The weakest in those 4, obviously - he's a PC while the others are SC) and Echelon would have eliminated Jyra wayyyy before Jyra has him in the Sniper's scope. A sniper is easier to fight than an element in this game.

Toa seals are NOT allowed.

Oh, and Contructman, with all your plans, how dare you diagnose me of Daedra Syndrome > Hehehe.


Oh, and a 1v1 with Heuani is awesome. Easiest way to confirm your character to live - eliminate shadows in the immediate area.

Edited by Jl1223 X, Sep 25 2012 - 10:23 PM.

[Axilus Prime]

Nuju doesn't seem to hunt down expies, nor does he seem to smite them more than other chars. (At least in my experience, and the fact that he's so honorable about that kind of thing is one of the many reasons why I respect him so much.)

But as for the issue of Heuani, things like this are important to plot all the time. I find that an RPG is most fun when played out as though it were an extremely cool and epic movie or TV show. Therefore this fits right in with what I think of Heuani. He needs that power to be the villain.

Logically, for an example, look at Transformers. Where the heck does Megatron get all that power? He's a gladiator? So what? There are other gladiators. But the plot demands it.

For another example, look at just about every work of fiction ever written.

A one-on-one with Heuani would be the most difficult thing I can imagine myself actually attempting in this game, and the opportunity would be very rare.

Edited by TNG Prime, Sep 25 2012 - 11:37 PM.

[snoip lion]

Your best chance of survival against Heuani isn't your character's training or their background, it's your ability to role-play in a realistic and interesting manner. It all adds up, but good RPing is the biggest chunk of it. That's why Nuju's so great, he rewards and encourages good RPing. Or, one of the reasons he's so great.

[Ghosthands]

I love it when people lump Echelon in with the SCs

And I'm sorry, Constructman, but your plan with Jyra would never have worked, in part for the very simple reason that in terms of plot, it's rather...well...boring.

Imagine what it would be like if Jyra did manage to snipe them all.

"Hey, so how did that terrifyingly poweful evil guy die?"

"Oh, a sniper got him."

Most undramatic death EVER.

That goes for the staffies, since their plot armour would deflect it; as for Echelon, I simply ask this: what are your bullets made of?

Edited by Ghosthands, Sep 26 2012 - 01:28 AM.

[ZHX]

Plot armour: Now available in black!

[Ghosthands]

Plot armour: Now available in black!

<Makuta shows Heuani the new plot armour>

Heuani: Does it come in...black?

OMG

Echelon vs Heuani: (for some reason I have yet to think of)

Heuani: <appears out of the shadows behind Echelon>
Echelon: Theatricality and deception. Powerful agents to the uninitiated. But we are initiated, aren't we Heuani?

Heuani: <summons his shadow powers>
Echelon: Ah, so you think darkness is your ally. You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it! Molded by it. I didn't see the -
<Echelon's head rolls on the floor>

Edited by Ghosthands, Sep 26 2012 - 01:35 AM.

[pokemonlover360]

I imagine a confrontation between Yasurek and Heuani would end up being:

Yasurek: So you're going to kill me? Doesn't really matter.

Heuani: *charisma* *charisma* *charisma* *prepares to strike*

Universe: No. He's our chew toy. Get your own.

Heuani: Oh fine. *leaves charismatically*

Yasurek: *Is legend in his own right*

[JL v2]

as for Echelon, I simply ask this: what are your bullets made of?

Exactly what I was thinking

I remember back during the start of the RPG when Echelon killed Tamaru. I was a super noob RPer back then, and we had a 6 v 1 against him and maybe another Makuta dude simply watching and then running with Tamaru. I forgot. Back then, every single one of us' 6 Toa lost our weapons due to being made of metal.

Now, I imagine the Toa I used for that fight would have the ability to shut down Echelons elemental power against him, in a logical way, and also have a slight advantage against his Zombies.

[ZHX]

Isn't is sad, Yasu~?

Poor Yasurek never gets noticed.

[pokemonlover360]

Yasurek was never supposed to end up being victimized by the world as much as he is. It's just that every time I had him do anything, someone would intentionally or not make whatever he did or said pointless or harmful. He did succeed in finding a banana for the monkey recently, but nobody on the Infernavika has posted.

[ZHX]

What is this about nobody posting in response to Yasu?