41464 replies to this topic

[Kaitholas Cage]

Let's hope "prey" doesn't include Norfan and her dragon friends.

[Toa Of Virtues]

So can a Toa of iron just materialize iron out of thin air with EE, or does he have to use already present iron?

[Visaru]

In this RPG, yes. A toa of iron can make new iron out of thin air, but it's easier for them to use already created iron.

[ZHX]

@JL: I don't see how choosing the Victory 2 Gundam as my avatar and signature after I had the Victory Gundam concerns the BZPRPG.

Anyway, seems like the Daedra are moving once more. Which means ...

Keep on submitting Ancora profiles to Void.

[Nuju Metru]

Well, that escalated quickly.

[ZHX]

Well, death and destruction will be arriving soon.

[Zeal]

Well, that escalated quickly.

Has anyone here seen "The Adventures of Tintin: Secret of the Unicorn"?

I read that in Sakharine's voice.

[JL v2]

Which is great! Finally a big fight coming.

Hopefully, the MB plot will be done before then and Emzee will be free so Echelon and Ronkshou+Vidar will be able to fight too.

[The Giant Space Butterfly]

And my Makuta-worshipper character is going to be completely useless in said battle. And he'll probably die as well.

Yay, unskilled Matoran characters FTW!

[ZHX]

Which is great! Finally a big fight coming.

Hopefully, the MB plot will be done before then and Emzee will be free so Echelon and Ronkshou+Vidar will be able to fight too.

Echelon is GH's, not Emzee's.

[BenLuke]

I think JL meant "After the MB plot is done" and "if Emzee is able" as different condition. Odd pay of putting it, though.

[JL v2]

I think JL meant "After the MB plot is done" and "if Emzee is able" as different condition. Odd pay of putting it, though.

Yah, my bad.

[ZHX]

Ah, I see.

[Katuko]

Well, seems like it's time for every ILS member to regroup at Pala-Koro if you want in on the upcoming fight, since Heuani just whipped the Makuta-followers into motion. Of course, the ILS isn't aware of them yet, so you better think up some semi-plausible explanations for suddenly heading there again.

...Should probably order another layer of stone and metal on top of the machinery-concealing layer, just as a precaution.

[ZHX]

Ril will head back there after he has his daily fix of coffee.

Even though he technically isn't a member, but merely a liaison between the ILS and Ta-Koro.

In other news, how goes the quest to find a new name for the ILS?

[JL v2]

Ah, a big fight WOULD seem fun - but if Makuta followers go unprepared, which I really hope not, we'd be decimated - you have an anti element shield, like 30 something - 40 against our minions + Maybe some Rahk and Heuani.

And if ILS members just start flooding it because of the reason "Its my base", I'm going to be a bit angry.

[ZHX]

It's actually a perfectly logical reason to go to Pala-Koro. Absolutely nothing wrong with going: "Hey, I'm bored, I'm gonna go and head to Pala-Koro because that's where all my team-mates are."

Also, the Makuta worshippers have a decent amount of people, and Heuani, who has plot armour and the ability to auto-hit if he wishes to. Because he's a plot character.

So the Makuta side has a chance. You DO have the assistance of a higher being you know.

[Master of Masks]

I'll be back around early afternoon and then the Xa-Koro Makuta Followers will be marching on Pala-Koro, except more stealthy-like.

[Katuko]

I got the feeling that Heuani himself would not attack the village as a major actor, since otherwise he'd just take a big pack of Rahkshi and rip it to shreds. Or have Makuta treat the place like he did Jianheim, if the ILS is truly a danger to him.

Also, Ambages just might decide to mess with us by triggering the stuff that was built into the wall. Though I don't think it could make the walls fall like cardboard given that they still got the original outer layer and also some padding on the inside to keep the machinery hidden, Ambages can greatly damage/weaken it and maybe shut off the anti-elemental field if he so pleases. Apart from that, the village is still vulnerable, it's just a bit more defensible when outside attackers can't use their elements to tear into the walls or lob attacks over them.

[Axilus Prime]

Hey cool, giant battle of PC's. Maybe I can once again find a use for the Aukati, seeing as they're in limbo and ILS members.

[Ilyusha Blokfase]

Let's hope "prey" doesn't include Norfan and her dragon friends.

Friends?

[JL v2]

It's actually a perfectly logical reason to go to Pala-Koro. Absolutely nothing wrong with going: "Hey, I'm bored, I'm gonna go and head to Pala-Koro because that's where all my team-mates are."

Also, the Makuta worshippers have a decent amount of people, and Heuani, who has plot armour and the ability to auto-hit if he wishes to. Because he's a plot character.

So the Makuta side has a chance. You DO have the assistance of a higher being you know.

Heuani and his Rahkshi might not come. And the "Go back to base coz its base" is a legit reason, but I would be annoyed if EVERYONE used it just to get in a fight - Without Heuani (Who I don't think will come due to what he said at Kumu), it would be a major disadvantage.

@Katuko, by an anti-elemental shield, can you 1. Hurl elements out from inside 2. Solid elements to come through (E.G. Iron) after being created (A thrown spear made of a solid)

Cuz while I know its a shield, I don't understand it's function - does it block out things like a torrent of water, or a gust of air, or a blast of fire, or does it prevent people from creating it inside the shield while they themselves are on the outside?

Seeing as people should be able to walk in/out of it, wouldn't things like Iron and metal be allowed through?

Man, Think of what happens when TNG's chars see's Slate and his Shield of Pyros.

EDIT: I am disgrace I put OOC in a discussion post :<

Edited by Jl1223 X, Sep 28 2012 - 07:35 AM.

[Constructman: Black Knight]

I thought Heuani would be staying around a little longer... Or maybe interrupt the MB plot to give Echelon a few orders... Oh well, but GH and Legion, can you please hurry up?

[ZHX]

Be patient boya. It is a virtue.

[Ilyusha Blokfase]

Be patient boya. It is a virtue.

Hubert speaks the truth.

I would know-my Toa Ancora actually is Patience.

[Axilus Prime]

Oh slag, if Optimus sees Slate with the Shield of the Primes outside a battlefield with Makuta followers (In the battle, he'd put the fight first and go for Slate later.), there would be karz breaking loose.

[JL v2]

Patience is wonderful - Finally people talk in my timezone.

[ZHX]

By the way, be prepared for my super secret awesome plan that is coming to a RPG near you! ... on the 9th of October.

[Axilus Prime]

Well, there we go. I just made it possible for me to participate in the ILS-Makuta Followers battle, and for another Slate fiasco to begin if JL wishes it.

[Katuko]

@Katuko, by an anti-elemental shield, can you 1. Hurl elements out from inside 2. Solid elements to come through (E.G. Iron) after being created (A thrown spear made of a solid)

Cuz while I know its a shield, I don't understand it's function - does it block out things like a torrent of water, or a gust of air, or a blast of fire, or does it prevent people from creating it inside the shield while they themselves are on the outside?

I was not its inventor, so I was uncertain on the specifics myself, but based on what we've seemed to settle on:

Elements can be flung from outside the field and into it so long as they do not require constant EE "fuel". The field blocks all use of elemental energy, though it does not drain it. If you enter with a full tank you will leave with a full tank, but if you try to use your element to do anything within the field you will simply be wasting that energy because it will fail to manifest. This means that yes, you can use your power to create a lance of iron, or an nce spike, or a ball of water, and fling it into the field without it dissipating. The EE has already been transformed from its energy state.

You can not, however, use your power within the field, so if you create fire in your hand and step into it, your EE will be cut off from your flame and it will vanish. Similarly, you will be unable to sustain a beam of your element because it's only half-formed upon entering (take ice again, for example, it's only semi-solid until it impacts anything) and you will be unable to absorb energy from the environment. You will also be unable to focus on a target within the field and apply your EE to it.

For simplicity's sake: Physical elemental projectiles such as iron, stone and ice can be formed outside the field and thrown into it. Energy-based ones such as a lightning strike, sustained flame, plasma cloud or other fired beams will dissipate as soon as they enter the field. Active control is lost if you try to use Magnetism or similar to move something through it as well, so you will not be able yto guide your projectile or give it the supernatural momentum that regular Toa elements usually have. Your wind will stop, your water will splash to the ground, and your plants will no longer fling themselves through the air once the EE is cut off. Depending on if the projectile was fully formed or not, it may return to an intangible EE state or just lie ineffectually around.

There are no apparent visual effect to the field. Its presence will only be apparent by Toa appearing powerless and EE in use vanishing rapidly.

Edited by Katuko, Sep 28 2012 - 08:40 AM.

[Constructman: Black Knight]

So if I set a bunch of plants on fire or make a molotov and set it on fire, will it still go through?

[JL v2]

@Katuko, by an anti-elemental shield, can you 1. Hurl elements out from inside 2. Solid elements to come through (E.G. Iron) after being created (A thrown spear made of a solid)

Cuz while I know its a shield, I don't understand it's function - does it block out things like a torrent of water, or a gust of air, or a blast of fire, or does it prevent people from creating it inside the shield while they themselves are on the outside?

I was not its inventor, so I was uncertain on the specifics myself, but based on what we've seemed to settle on:

Elements can be flung from outside the field and into it so long as they do not require constant EE "fuel". The field blocks all use of elemental energy, though it does not drain it. If you enter with a full tank you will leave with a full tank, but if you try to use your element to do anything within the field you will simply be wasting that energy because it will fail to manifest. This means that yes, you can use your power to create a lance of iron, or an nce spike, or a ball of water, and fling it into the field without it dissipating. The EE has already been transformed from its energy state.

You can not, however, use your power within the field, so if you create fire in your hand and step into it, your EE will be cut off from your flame and it will vanish. Similarly, you will be unable to sustain a beam of your element because it's only half-formed upon entering (take ice again, for example, it's only semi-solid until it impacts anything) and you will be unable to absorb energy from the environment. You will also be unable to focus on a target within the field and apply your EE to it.

For simplicity's sake: Physical elemental projectiles such as iron, stone and ice can be formed outside the field and thrown into it. Energy-based ones such as a lightning strike, sustained flame, plasma cloud or other fired beams will dissipate as soon as they enter the field. Active control is lost if you try to use Magnetism or similar to move something through it as well, so you will not be able yto guide your projectile or give it the supernatural momentum that regular Toa elements usually have. Your wind will stop, your water will splash to the ground, and your plants will no longer fling themselves through the air once the EE is cut off. Depending on if the projectile was fully formed or not, it may return to an intangible EE state or just lie ineffectually around.

There are no apparent visual effect to the field. Its presence will only be apparent by Toa appearing powerless and EE in use vanishing rapidly.

So, what you mean is that it depends on whether or not an object is fully formed or not (Either its a continued state of EE or a formed version).

So, let me get this straight.

Things like a solidified ice and iron and crystals can be hurled into it, and things like a formed water ball or tornado (Provided it doesn't dissipate naturally) can be hurled in too. However, a continuous stream of water can NOT be brought in.

And finally, powers like magnetism and gravity will immediately have no effect when past the field - increase the gravity of everything around you, and the gravity inside the barrier is NOT increased. Hurl metal through the barrier using magnetism - while the metal will go through, the magnetism won't and as such, you cannot control where the metal goes.

So, the question is - are ALL forms of energy based powers such as fire and lightning not possible to be hurled through? As in, if you form a ball of electricity or a ball of fire and hurl it in, would they dissipate, or would they continue through seeing as they have been formed already?

And can you use EE from inside the barrier and bring it outside, like you would be without a barrier?

[EmperorWhenua]

Things like a solidified ice and iron and crystals can be hurled into it, and things like a formed water ball or tornado (Provided it doesn't dissipate naturally) can be hurled in too. However, a continuous stream of water can NOT be brought in.

Correct.

And finally, powers like magnetism and gravity will immediately have no effect when past the field - increase the gravity of everything around you, and the gravity inside the barrier is NOT increased. Hurl metal through the barrier using magnetism - while the metal will go through, the magnetism won't and as such, you cannot control where the metal goes.

Correct.

So, the question is - are ALL forms of energy based powers such as fire and lightning not possible to be hurled through? As in, if you form a ball of electricity or a ball of fire and hurl it in, would they dissipate, or would they continue through seeing as they have been formed already?

No. Here's why: Ball lightning, fireballs, etc. all require exertion to maintain their forms, otherwise the lightning will dissipate and the fire will flourish and vanish. That exertion is elemental-based, so it would not work within the domain of the shield.

And can you use EE from inside the barrier and bring it outside, like you would be without a barrier?

Of course not because you can't even use the energies in the shield to start with.

[Katuko]

EW finished writing before me, but here are my thoughts too:

So, what you mean is that it depends on whether or not an object is fully formed or not (Either its a continued state of EE or a formed version).

So, let me get this straight.

Things like a solidified ice and iron and crystals can be hurled into it, and things like a formed water ball or tornado (Provided it doesn't dissipate naturally) can be hurled in too. However, a continuous stream of water can NOT be brought in.

And finally, powers like magnetism and gravity will immediately have no effect when past the field - increase the gravity of everything around you, and the gravity inside the barrier is NOT increased. Hurl metal through the barrier using magnetism - while the metal will go through, the magnetism won't and as such, you cannot control where the metal goes.

So, the question is - are ALL forms of energy based powers such as fire and lightning not possible to be hurled through? As in, if you form a ball of electricity or a ball of fire and hurl it in, would they dissipate, or would they continue through seeing as they have been formed already?

And can you use EE from inside the barrier and bring it outside, like you would be without a barrier?

Any active use of EE will fail inside the field, simple as that. If it involves elemental energy in motion, it will fail. If the EE has already finished being converted into something solid, it will keep existing. If your attack requires any form of EE manipulation - whether that be for fuel, motion or simply staying in existence - it will stop working in the field.

Thus, attempting to use EE inside the field - in any way - is a waste of that energy. It's partly Felnas-based, I understand. It scatters the elemental energy into some form of harmless, invisible particles.


Let's take Gali as an example. In Mask of Light, she forms a beam of water and sends it in a straight line towards Lehrak, who is attacking Tahu. If she were to fire said beam into this anti-element field, then she would be unable to control it any further than to the edge of it. Any water inside the field would still exists, but it would suddenly be like you emptied a bucket of water rather than fired a high-pressure hose. Gali would be unable to keep it aloft, change its motion, create more of it or do anything else with the water that was inside the field.

Tahu would see a similar effect with his fire, though then his flame would also burn out when it hits the edge of the field, because he creates it all in mid-air. Without any more EE as fuel, it would stop burning.

Attempting to use Magnetism or Gravity shifts on any object within the field would fail, as it requires active concentration. Even in the cases that it doesn't, the EE that keeps the unnatural effect going (such as the magnetic charge added to Pohatu Nuva and the Mahi by Gahlok-Kal) would vanish and thus dispel the effect once the field is entered.

And yes, you can use Magnetism to set an object in motion and fling it in, but you'd lose all control of it once it passes the edge. You can also use Iron to form and shoot a metal spear, but again: once it passes the field it is suddenly just a regular spear that you have no control over.

A tornado could potentially go into the field, but given how such mini-tornadoes must usually be actively sustained by the Toa, I can't see it existing for more than a second or two. Similarly, though, you can use your wind from outside and move it towards the field, but once past the lack of EE means it gets reduced to a breeze after a few meters. Maybe someone could argue the physics of this, but it's just to put a clear limit on the uncertain elements.

You may assume that unless your "elemental" attack is already a solid piece such as a rock, it will not be able to be used when brought into contact with the field.


Skakdi weapons that utilize elemental energies are similarly limited; they will fail to fire at all inside the field. Kanohi like the Garai will fail because it manipulates an element; but any other Kanohi power (Hau, Kakama, Kadin, etc) will be fully usable.

Edited by Katuko, Sep 28 2012 - 10:05 AM.

[JL v2]

So, things which do in a form (Like solid ice, a puddle of water, a ball of iron) without EE is things that CAN go in. But things which need EE to stay in form all the time (Magnetism, Gravity, Electricity, Plasma) would not be able to pass through.

So, does this mean that things like a fireball cannot pass through...

BUT, if you light a fire which would then exist naturally, it can pass through?


Btw, Sorry for the bombardment of questions

[Half a Cup of EW]

Hold on- a Garai failing makes no sense; it does not operate off of EE, which is the only thing the field negates.

[Katuko]

It's an elemental Kanohi. What else would it be using?


EDIT: And yes, starting a forest fire will let it spread, though uncontrollably. Not even a regular Toa can keep such a thing in check alone, I believe.

Edited by Katuko, Sep 28 2012 - 10:18 AM.

[The Giant Space Butterfly]

The same thing all the other masks use?

[Katuko]

When you focus, a Kanohi applies its effect by drawing upon the power of the protodermis it is made of, yes; but a Hau creates a force-field, the Kakama accelerates you, the Suletu transmits thoughts, etc, leading me to believe than in practice the way their effect is achieved varies wildly with the "program". The Garai is stated to have Elemental Powers, and therefore it just makes sense to me that its function is to somehow generate elemental energy and apply it like a Toa of Gravity does, except in a more limited way.

I'd have staff call that one, though. Rahkshi powers are iffy as well. Do the Makuta power/Rahkshi of Magnetism work the same way as Toa of Magnetism, for example? They don't run out of EE, but is it involved somehow? We can't really know. I'm just thinking that a blanket statement of "elemental powers won't work inside the field, period" is a lot easier.

[JL v2]

The same thing all the other masks use?

Masks draw on the power a Toa/Turaga has.

By power, I mean all the energy a Toa/Turaga has, not just elemental energy. Personally, I would specify it as - the more you use energy, the more tired you get until you run out and start over exerting yourself (Normal human way of life?). Now, I would then pool in different 'energy' - You use the same energy to run around as you do the same energy for using a mask or your elemental power.

Therefore, the energy you use for a mask would be the same as those you use for your element - its like having a pool of energy, but separated for different purposes. As such, I believe that a Toa's energy isn't 'separate' for different things, and as such using a Mask of an Element would be the same as using energy for your own element, but limited by the mask power.

For an example, I would use a human body. A human uses carbohydrates (And fat) for power. All cells need power to function, or they die - this is drawn from the same 'pool of power'. So, some energy might be used for moving legs, and some might be used for making your brain function, and some used to make sure your organs work. Now, bring this example to a Toa, a Toa is using the same energy for both using a mask and using an element - except that, you are blocking the energy of an element, but not the energy used for things like moving muscles. As such, Mask power uses the same energy as elemental power, so if the mask is a mask of an element, it would therefore be using elemental energy, at least indirectly.

Edited by Jl1223 X, Sep 28 2012 - 10:48 AM.