41464 replies to this topic

[Meta-Mind]

I doubt Joske'll die, he'll just not be able to have his mask anymore, meaning he'll go back to the Mask of Speed.
 
Not that he needs it, since his light powers let him run at light speed.

This statement reminds me of the slight humor I see in the Bionicle Universe's many many races and mask powers. Many things are redundant if you really draw it out.

For example: a Toa of Air or Gravity with a Mask of Flight, Mask of Levitation, Mask of Teleportation, or a Mask of Telekinesis is ultimately redundant. Toa of Air could in theory produce currents of air to lift them up and keep them afloat, Toa of Gravity can just alter the gravitational force on themselves, a Mask of Levitation and Mask of Flight theoretically do the exact same thing, a wearer of a Mask of Teleportation can teleport rapidly at one point in the air (and ultimately move faster), and a Mask of Telekinesis, albeit with experience, could in theory allow the wearer to telekinetically lift themselves and "throw" them in the direction they want to "fly" or use their powers to telekinetically "push" themselves off of the ground and high into the air.

Toa can be quite overpowered and most people don't even realize it XD

Not to mention the fact that Air allows users to essentially have super-agility and super-speed, especially if they use a Mask of Levitation, right?

On the other hand, Light is really the most ill-defined of the Elemental Powers. Unlike every other element, it also allows users to emulate the element itself (superspeed), break the laws of physics (solid light projections) and a few other tricks that don't have any counterpart in the other elemental powers.

[Vezok's Friend]

And Heunai's use of shadow-powers was not bending the laws of physics? Shadows becoming physical, shadows used to counter pretty much all the elements was pretty much doing that as well, plus a mask to turn the opponents elment against themselves.

 

Light is just special in the way that it is the counter-point to shadow, which doesn't exactly play by the rules either, so there isn't really an issue there.

Edited by Vezok's Friend, Feb 20 2013 - 09:12 AM.

[Indigo Individual]

I see Heuani went out on a blind date with good ol' Mary Sue while I was gone.
 
-Tyler

Or more accurately, Marty Stu.

...Wake up, get ready for school, check BZ - wait, SINCE WHEN CAN THE MASK OF CONJURING DO THAT

This scene is more proof than ever that GMs really need to watch their loopholes, even when giving stuff to other GMs. I sense that Joske becoming a Toa of Light was not in the plan.

Buuuuut I will say this: Tuck did a marvelous job of describing Joske's internal dilemma at the beginning of the post. Props for that.

Actually, I'd say it was -- Heuani's only weakness is defined as Light, Joske has a mask that can give him any power, Joske lies defeated while Heuani taunts him but has to somehow defeat him in order to complete his destiny... it looks to me like it was very much a part of the plan.

 

- Vorex

[Silvan Haven]

I don't think that Joske is going to be moving at lightspeed for a while. Takanuva was still experimenting with it when Bionicle ended.

[Friar Tuck]

Ooh! Toa of light! Neat.

But for those now knowing that Joske will not die: "Prevent user from accessing mask ever again" is an objective which can be achieved in more ways then one... Perhaps the destruction sewn in each man's heart will cause Joske to burn himself out?

 

Because, "Just not being able to use an OP weapon ever again" is not much of a weakness in itself. It gives you an advantage you previously not had, and even though it is a one-off advantage, later on losing the ability to give yourself even more advantages is not a sacrafice in itself (which is what the "Specify the weakness" would imply). Something tells me that Toa Joske will have another sacrifice to make very soon...

 

---

EDIT:

Also, minor nitpicking:
THAT COLOUR. Srsly. Aargh! Couldn't you have gone for a more dark gold colour? Sure, this one looks stylish, but it is rather impractical (hard to read).

Also:

My duty as a Toa to protect the matron

 

Ok, ok, I fixed the coloring the best I could. Went from yellow to a dark orange. Should make the text easier to read without sending everyone into epileptic shock.

 

I see Heuani went out on a blind date with good ol' Mary Sue while I was gone.
 
-Tyler

Or more accurately, Marty Stu.

...Wake up, get ready for school, check BZ - wait, SINCE WHEN CAN THE MASK OF CONJURING DO THAT

This scene is more proof than ever that GMs really need to watch their loopholes, even when giving stuff to other GMs. I sense that Joske becoming a Toa of Light was not in the plan.

Buuuuut I will say this: Tuck did a marvelous job of describing Joske's internal dilemma at the beginning of the post. Props for that.

 

Lol. Technically, if we're splitting hairs, it can't. Nuju and myself both know this. However. this battle planned out LONG in advance, including the masks used and the dance both charrie did. Granted, the details were as we wrote them but for all practical purposes everything went according to plan as was laid out weeks ago. That includes usage of the mask... for this single event. Not to mention the term weakness has many meanings and synonyms, including:

 

Synonyms:
infirmity - frailty - feebleness - debility - failing

 

So the fact that the mask will fail in the end, or perhaps even more unforeseen failings, the debility of the one wearing it, the frailty of containing all that power IS a weakness... but not a traditional one. Besides, I think VF summed it up perfectly:

 

And Heunai's use of shadow-powers was not bending the laws of physics? Shadows becoming physical, shadows used to counter pretty much all the elements was pretty much doing that as well, plus a mask to turn the opponents element against themselves.

 

Light is just special in the way that it is the counter-point to shadow, which doesn't exactly play by the rules either, so there isn't really an issue there.

 

Not to mention he has in essence mind control powers, Mask of Charisma powers, immune to a whole host of other abilities... just leveling the playing field, that's all This is why it's on the Banned Mask list. It can make a mess of all sorts of things, but in all honesty one of the few devices that could bring Heuani down to a more manageable level. And besides... it makes for a good story. Isn't that why we play this game?

 

To make a good story?

 

We play in a game where physics-defying powers are smelted into masks, being control the very elements of the universe, and death rarely happens. The whole game is a suspension of disbelief no matter what we tell ourselves are the rules we put into play; this is why I have always tended to be on the more lenient side when it comes to abilities. In the end the only question you need to ask yourself is this: was it a good story? Did I have fun?

 

If the answer is "Yes", then you understand why this forum exists. Why I do what I do. Over-the-top? At times, yes, I admit, I'm a bit showy. But that's why there are tales and legends of heroes and knights and dragons and wizards. You'll remember it for a long time afterwards. Which is the point. Entertainment. Excitement. Fun. That's why we're here.

 

On to other issues, that brilliant flash of light? Toa Maru, that's your cue. So Rene, time to get your collective company's butt in action and mosey on over to Kini-Nui so your team and get the mask and show Makuta what a team of heroes can REALLY do.

 

You guys have a date after all Mr. M is awaiting. Don't be late!

 

[Draezeth]

Why is everyone nitpicking about this? It's AWESOME! I knew someone would have to get Light eventually, and I can think of very few more deserving or more appropriate to receive such power than Joske.

 

Don't nitpick and just enjoy it! 

[Constructman: Black Knight]

Wait...

Since when was "prevent user from accessing power again" a weakness?

Also, I still don't understand why Light and Shadow are glorified to OP levels in the RPG. Or maybe it's because the contest rpgs underpower them?

Still, I just knew that this would happen. But as soon as Joske started spewing out computer programming, why didn't Heuani stomp on him? Those were pretty long and suspicious last words.

Edited by Constructman, Feb 20 2013 - 12:16 PM.

[Draezeth]

NITPICKING!

 

Peace and looooooove, maaaaaaan!

 

Well, okay, to be fair, I did wonder about the coding thing too.

Edited by Draezeth, Feb 20 2013 - 12:58 PM.

[The Snark Knight]

CM, the reason you don't understand why Light and Shadow are OP in this game indicates that you don't really understand what the elements are capable of. 

 

Light alone can propel someone at superspeeds. It can unleash laser blasts, which despite what you might think, is far worse than what the standard elements can conjure up in a single attack. It can, as evidenced in this post, unleash power comparable to the sun. And it can produce solid light projections with ease, barriers that are very hard to break considering the level of power that most Toa of Light have. Oh, and they have an eternal power source, because there is always some level of light.

 

Shadow has similar abilities. There is never a lack of shadow, and thus, never a lack of things to be manipulated. A user can shadow walk through any shadows present, and reappear in any other shadow. That's like a Kualsi with no restrictions. He can make shadows solid and bend them to his will, and taking into account the eternal presence of shadow, that's really powerful. Read any post that consists of Heuani v. PC group, and you'll get a demonstration of how powerful it can be.

They are two physics defying, eternally powered abilities. Just by listing the basic applications of their power you get a character stronger than several normal PCs put together.

I should think that why they're banned is clear. But even if it isn't, there's an in-story reason. Kra-Toa have to be created by Makuta's influence directly, and Toa of Light have to be created through usage of some very special circumstances. Neither of these occurs often enough to justify the horde of PCs that would occur, especially in this setting.

On the subject of why Heuani didn't attack while Joske was coding... Think about it. Heuani had no idea what mask he had. He wouldn't have realized the importance of what Joske was saying until it was too late to ask. Because honestly, without the knowledge of the mask, it sounds more like a prayer than anything else.

[Varren Rehn]

Joske is Kaka Crabbypatty.

 

*shot*

 

Honestly, at this point, I hope both Joske and Heuani kill each other... If one of them survives, the balance will forever be thrown in dangerous peril!

 

I like balance.

Edited by Varren Rehn, Feb 20 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[Draezeth]

What if Joske doesn't stay a Toa of Light, though? Once his destiny is achieved, what if he returns to being a Toa of Fire? Or better, a Turaga of Light? Or a Turaga of Fire.

[Varren Rehn]

He is the result of an unbalance equation.

 

The equation must be balanced. All the variables must be eliminated.

 

It can't work any other way, that's impossible!

 

Like giant floating magic cows.

[Draezeth]

What happens when Heuani is out of the picture, though? The equation will be unbalanced again.

[Visaru]

(I don't ever remember Toa of light being able to move at light speed, but I guess everyone else seems to.  )

 

Honestly, at this point, I hope both Joske and Heuani kill each other... If one of them survives, the balance will forever be thrown in dangerous peril!

 

I like balance.

?

But.... Heuani was around for a long time without any Toa of light and the world didn't (totally) fall into chaos. 

 

Also, that staff plot is amazing. <3

Edited by Visaru, Feb 20 2013 - 06:08 PM.

[Constructman: Black Knight]

Joske's only gonna have the light powers for fifteen minutesdue to the specifications of the Mask of Conjuring, so it'll balance itself.

[Varren Rehn]

What happens when Heuani is out of the picture, though? The equation will be unbalanced again.

 

That's why Joske has to die.

 

If nobody noticed, the world was kinda in-chaos with Heuani running around, murdering people left and right.

 

Or at least, he had the ability to do so.

Edited by Varren Rehn, Feb 20 2013 - 06:09 PM.

[Draezeth]

I don't remember it either, Visaru.

[Visaru]

Joske's only gonna have the light powers for fifteen minutesdue to the specifications of the Mask of Conjuring, so it'll balance itself.

 

 

While (activated)

   powerout "Give me the power to defeat my foe and complete my destiny" endline;

      when (completed)

      powerout "Prevent user from accessing mask ever again" endline;

 

That was never specifically stated. Maybe it's a permanent transformation. We know that the wishes it granted were permanent. All we know is that Joske now has the power to stop Heuani and achieve his destiny, and when he's done, the mask will become useless to Joske.

[Dude w/ a Hat]

I'm unsure if much is going on in Ta-Wahi(at least in Akamaru's location).

Edited by Dude w/ a Hat, Feb 20 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[snoip lion]

The fact that we're "deciding" for ourselves what should happen to a staff + personal character in the staff ( + sorta personal) plot doesn't make any sense to me. But that's cool I guess. I'm just assuming that Tuck knows what he's doing as an RPer and a storyteller and will choose what happens next accordingly.

[Varren Rehn]

Still hope both of them are going to die in the end.

 

It would make for one heck of an ending.

 

And balance.

[Vezok's Friend]

Balance? Riiight, because we have so many good guys running around, evil is really about to be in trouble. It's not like we have Makuta, his minions and the peers and others to worry about. 

[Half a Cup of EW]

Joske's only gonna have the light powers for fifteen minutesdue to the specifications of the Mask of Conjuring, so it'll balance itself.

 

Constructman seems to be the only one here thinking logically. The mask granted Joske the power to achieve his destiny; after fifteen minutes, the mask's power will deactivate. As far as I can see, this will all work itself out pretty easily.

 

Also, Visaru: this power is different from the wishes in a pertinent way: the mask's power was to grant wishes (the variable was the power, not the wish). Now the mask is directly granting Joske the power to achieve his destiny, which means it should only last for fifteen minutes.

 

Of course, this is all speculation. Tuck and Nuju have had this planned out for a while; regardless of what happens, they know what they're doing.

[The Snark Knight]

.....

AuRon.

Even if I agree with your logic, which I don't, there are some severe flaws in it.

The idea that things must be balanced rests on the assumption that, with Heuani present, things where in balance. You of all people should be aware that if Heuani ever got involved in a PC occurrence, things were most certainly not balanced. And that's not even taking into account Makuta.

 

So before Joske went Toa of Light, things were severely weighted toward the shadows. If Heuani dies and Joske remains, things will be the closest to balanced they've been. If both lose their power through some means, we more or less return to the status quo.

There is no balance, there never has been. If anything, right now is the closest we've ever been to balanced.

[Dallas Winston]

Why is everyone nitpicking about this? It's AWESOME! I knew someone would have to get Light eventually, and I can think of very few more deserving or more appropriate to receive such power than Joske.

 

Don't nitpick and just enjoy it! 

 

Hm?

 

My apologies. For a second there, it sounded like you were telling me that I have to enjoy a plot twist. Must've been the wind.

 

Oh. Wait. There's no wind on the Internet.

 

I've been around this game since 2010. That doesn't seem like a lot, and it shouldn't, because in the scheme of things considering downtimes and all it's only been about two and a half years. But in that time, I've seen Joske do a number of things that normal characters haven't had the right to do: he's been a near-master of Xa-Kuta, punched holes in time, called down meteors, enslaved PCs, and now, of all things, he is (at least temporarily) a Toa of Light.

 

People are nitpicking about this both because the Toa of Light thing came along very rapidly with almost no buildup at all - something that, even considering how woefully over schedule we are at this point, could have been worked up to better - and because, frankly, Joske's come in and saved the day over. And over. And over. If it were a TV show, people would slowly stop watching it, because the season finale would almost always be the same. It's why I loved 2011 Joske: he had such a fresh new spin, he was such a total prick, that he was truly unpredictable.

 

I love him as a character. I love Tuck as a roleplayer and a person: he's one of the people I've looked up to since I joined this game for direction, and I always love reading his posts. But not only could this have been worked up to better, it reeks of been-there-done-that, and after all the months - more than twelve, at this point - that we've put into making this happen, and after all that Nuju's done with Heuani, I feel that it could have honestly been done better than this. At the very least, it could have been executed in a way different than what we're used to seeing.

 

Yeah, sure, whatev. It's cool and all. Yeee, Joske. But I can nitpick it all I want. That's our job as a player: to nitpick, to push forward our opinions. Otherwise it's not a player driven game. End rant.

 

peace, love, and respect, everybody.

 

-Tyler

[Wotsiznaim]

I like balance.

I like trains. Do you see any trains here? Didn't think so.

 

[JL v2]

Joske's only gonna have the light powers for fifteen minutesdue to the specifications of the Mask of Conjuring, so it'll balance itself.

 

Constructman seems to be the only one here thinking logically. The mask granted Joske the power to achieve his destiny; after fifteen minutes, the mask's power will deactivate. As far as I can see, this will all work itself out pretty easily.

 

Also, Visaru: this power is different from the wishes in a pertinent way: the mask's power was to grant wishes (the variable was the power, not the wish). Now the mask is directly granting Joske the power to achieve his destiny, which means it should only last for fifteen minutes.

 

Of course, this is all speculation. Tuck and Nuju have had this planned out for a while; regardless of what happens, they know what they're doing.

I doubt that when the time is up, Joske will all of a sudden 'devolve'.

 

Granted, he'll stay Light based, as a Turaga.

 

And yes, Light is very OP.

[ZHX]

-draezethsnip-

-tylersnip-

If we were using XenForo instead of IP Board, I would 'like' that post so hard.

Edited by Space Pirate, Feb 20 2013 - 06:58 PM.

[Constructman: Black Knight]

Um, that's what happens when you use the mask of conjuring. You have the power for 15 minutes, then you devolve for 30 seconds.

[Varren Rehn]

I like balance.

I like trains. Do you see any trains here? Didn't think so.

 

...

 

I like airplanes.

 

Last time I checked, I thought the whole "Toa Maru" thing was to stop Makuta.

 

Unless the story changed again...

[Draezeth]

Whoa there, I only meant enjoy the game.

Edited by Draezeth, Feb 20 2013 - 08:00 PM.

[Visaru]

Also, Visaru: this power is different from the wishes in a pertinent way: the mask's power was to grant wishes (the variable was the power, not the wish). Now the mask is directly granting Joske the power to achieve his destiny, which means it should only last for fifteen minutes.

 

Of course, this is all speculation. Tuck and Nuju have had this planned out for a while; regardless of what happens, they know what they're doing.

 

Well, that may be, but it is also possible that the transformation of Joske was the mask's usage of power, and now it is not working anymore- Joske is permanently transformed. It is similar to a Toa stone- the stone does not need to continually fill a Toa with power in order for the Toa to remain a Toa. When the mask deactivates, Joske will still keep his light powers because the mask gifted them to him just like a Toa stone would, or the mask of light would. 

 

But you are right- it's just speculation. I trust our staff will write a good story.

[Draezeth]

My vote goes for Turaga of Light.

...

Not that it matters.

[JL v2]

Turaga of Light, because there goes his Destiny.

 

WELL, there goes Heuani. I truly doubt Joske'll finish this fight, and maybe Heuani will be left to either die from the Makuta, or die from PC's.

 

One thing that made me a bit afraid was:

 

Do to me what I did to Cael.

Edited by JL v2, Feb 21 2013 - 02:01 AM.

[EmperorWhenua]

There's a lot of silly misconception going on here. Joske is not a toa of light, he's a toa of fire with the temporary power of light that will end within fifteen minutes.

[Toa Fanixe]

Honestly, I don't see why people are arguing over this. Either he became superpowerful, got gold armor and blond hair for 15 min, or for longer. We'll find out in about 15 min GT.

 

Just Sayan'.

[Ghosthands]

There's a lot of silly misconception going on here. Joske is not a toa of light, he's a toa of fire with the temporary power of light that will end within fifteen minutes.

 

This.

 

If I know Tuck and Nuju, then they won't keep Joske as a Toa of Light.  I'm not judging my perspective on this by IC reasons; I'm judging it by OOC reasons.  I don't believe that either of them will want to have a Toa of Light running around for various reasons, one notable example being the fact that Joske would slowly but surely come to be viewed as the game's protagonist; as an all-powerful hero.  They don't want that any more than we do.

[JL v2]

I quite severely doubt you guys are correct.

 

My pick.

[Dallas Winston]

I quite severely doubt you guys are correct.

 

My pick.

 

you're wrong.

 

also yeeeeeeeeeeeeee hererarner

 

thert's mer berry

 

-Tyler

[ZHX]

I quite severely doubt you guys are correct.

 

My pick.

 

you're wrong.

 

also yeeeeeeeeeeeeee hererarner

 

thert's mer berry

 

-Tyler

thert's mer berry

berry