41464 replies to this topic

[Dallas Winston]

dor drinks bourbon.

 

-Tyler

[Kughii]

woops.

[Kaitholas Cage]

The Maasi are rolling again, for the time being.

Sorry it took so long. I imagine you all were just terribly bored without them.

[JL v2]

Reka, huh?

And I can recognize that Le-Accent too.

 

So who exactly is Heuani and who exactly is the rival? Is it Tahu and Kopaka? Probably. Which is which, though? That's more interesting.

 

Chances are, eventually some stuff will happen where each of them get redeemed by their Maru counterparts, and then Oreius will have some weird talk with Tahu/ShadowTahu and that'll then lead to whatever vision it was that Stannis had.

[Draezeth]

I think Pohatu did the majority of the talking. That one seemed the most eager to believe the Makuta, similar to Pohatu's trust.

We all know who Gali and Lewa are.

I'd say the rival would be Kopaka, based on the fact that he had such short sentences and spoke little.

Onua remained silent the whole time.

[JL v2]

I think Pohatu did the majority of the talking. That one seemed the most eager to believe the Makuta, similar to Pohatu's trust.

We all know who Gali and Lewa are.

I'd say the rival would be Kopaka, based on the fact that he had such short sentences and spoke little.

Onua remained silent the whole time.

That would be assuming that Heuani was Tahu.

[Norik The Blood Elf]

I'm 70% sure it's Tahu and 30% Kopaka. Heuani sort of took responsibility for the Mata's "conversion", but the loving'Reka' part seems equally Tahu and Kopaka.

Edited by Norik The Blood Elf, Mar 08 2013 - 08:25 AM.

[thebeggerpie]

I think Pohatu did the majority of the talking. That one seemed the most eager to believe the Makuta, similar to Pohatu's trust.

We all know who Gali and Lewa are.

I'd say the rival would be Kopaka, based on the fact that he had such short sentences and spoke little.

Onua remained silent the whole time.

 

 This makes the most sense to me so far.

 

 Though, anything can change...

[Draezeth]

I'm betting on Heuani being Tahu after the rival being Kopaka. If they're anything like their old selves still, the rival acts most like him.

[Silvan Haven]

I would guess that Heuani is Kopaka due to the fact that he had said Toa's shield in his quarters.

 

That and this part from the most recent post.

 

Heuani was the flaw in otherwise thick ice that, when struck right, created exploitable fissures.

[Ilyusha Blokfase]

An ice-based metaphor does not an accurate determination of character make.

[Silvan Haven]

No, but out of the two primary suspects it makes Kopaka seem the more likely candidate.

[Wotsiznaim]

I think Kopaka seems more likely to strike out on his own, and I've been sure it's him until this one post, which does, in my opinion, make him seem more Tahu-ish.

[Half a Cup of EW]

Don't forget that Heuani 1) goes to Mt. Ihu to find peace, and 2) resents starting fires by hand.

[Draezeth]

Kopaka was indeed a loner, but I think a hothead like Tahu would be the most likely to actually betray the others. And I still think "the rival" would have talked more if he was "Tahu", too.

[Wotsiznaim]

Don't forget that Heuani 1) goes to Mt. Ihu to find peace, and 2) resents starting fires by hand.

Exactly why I've been so sure until this post.

 

The thing is, with every argument, you could say he adopted traits from his rival in some sort of ironic respectful way or whatever.

[Norik The Blood Elf]

I thought he resented starting fire as he wanted to cut old ties to hsnold identity.

[snoip lion]

I thought he resented starting fire as he wanted to cut old ties to hsnold identity.

To which I say.

 

The thing is, with every argument, you could say he adopted traits from his rival in some sort of ironic respectful way or whatever.

Honestly, there is evidence to support both and I don't think Aaron even plans on telling us which of the two it is.

My money is still on Kopaka though.

Edited by snoip lion, Mar 09 2013 - 12:40 AM.

[Draezeth]

I'm guessing Tahu's going to be important with Oreius' personal storyline/issues, so I'm gonna guess we will find out eventually. 

 

Also, didn't say it before, but I like that the shadow Toa still retain some of their old selves. Wonder how that'll inevitably be turned against our heroes somehow.

[Dallas Winston]

I thought he resented starting fire as he wanted to cut old ties to hsnold identity.

To which I say.

 

>The thing is, with every argument, you could say he adopted traits from his rival in some sort of ironic respectful way or whatever.

Honestly, there is evidence to support both and I don't think Aaron even plans on telling us which of the two it is.

My money is still on Kopaka though.

 

 

It will be revealed.

 

-Tyler

[Meta-Mind]

At first, I was of the opinion that Heuani was Kopaka, due to a number of factors (his hating starting fires by hand could be interpreted as missing his "rival," he goes up to Mount Ihu to meditate, etcetera). Now, though, I'm leaning towards Tahu. Why?
-If Heuani was Kopaka, his "rival" would most likely be Tahu. In the latest Heuani post, however, the "rival" spoke very little, which is a trait more reminiscent of Kopaka than Tahu.
-Heuani hates starting fires by hand.
-He thought that the remainder of his team was dead, and so would probably feel inclined to keep his "rival's" shield as a sort of memorial.
-Although Kopaka was always portrayed as a loner, he's more of a "loner with a heart of gold" type as regards team dynamics. Tahu is more the type to strike out on his own if something convinced him that it would be the best choice - which, due to the latest Kini-Nui post, has been proven to be exactly what Heuani did.
-Heuani's choice of meditating on Mount Ihu could be interpreted as missing his "rival" Kopaka, just as his hatred of starting fires by hand could be interpreted as Kopaka missing Tahu.
-Oreius is prophesied to be the team's traitor, and he has Tahu's Essence Stone. Assuming that Nuju is going for a feel of "history repeats itself" here, it's likely that the "traitor" in the original Mata was therefore Tahu.

As stated above, some of the points in either argument (meditating on Mount Ihu, hatred of starting fires by hand) could be taken as ironically "missing" his rival on the team. I'm just of the opinion that the Tahu argument has a bit more support right now.

Edited by Meta-Mind, Mar 09 2013 - 06:48 PM.

[Draezeth]

I second almost everything Meta said. The rest, I 'first'.

[Dallas Winston]

i wasn't supposed to really say anything yet

 

but snoip lion and i are character development alchemists right now

 

get hype pls

 

-Tyler

[snoip lion]

At this point Tyler is doing most of the work, so you know it won't suck!

[Dallas Winston]

he's right

 

literally all he does is pipe in and laugh at funny things i say

 

he's my wingman in every sense of the word

 

-Tyler

[JL v2]

Just so you know, Heuani might hate starting fires by hand because back when he was a Toa of Fire he only used thought.

[snoip lion]

Or because it reminds him that he knew somebody who could, or reminds him of somebody he fought with a lot.

Literally every clue we've been given could be taken ironically.

[Dallas Winston]

Just so you know, Heuani might hate starting fires by hand because back when he was a Toa of Fire he only used thought.

 

I used to be a pretty big Heuani is Kopaka guy, and I honestly think it's the cooler possibility of the two, but this has been toying with me for a while now.

 

Also, am I the only one who sees a modicum of symbolism in Heuani shattering Kopaka's shield?

 

-Tyler

[snoip lion]

The shield could've symbolized more than one thing though. If it was Tahu he'd keep it around to remind himself of Kopaka, but if it was Kopaka, he'd keep it as a remainder of himself.

Shattering it could symbolize his hatred of Kopaka or betrayal of his team, or it could symbolize his disdain for his own past decision to betray his team.

[Norik The Blood Elf]

Well, we'll just have to wait and see, since the evidence leans either way.

[Draezeth]

It's interesting and frustrating because it's true!

I want more Shadownua!

[Kaitholas Cage]

Just for the record:

The Reaper vs Tarnok and Leli fight is in an abandoned cavern that used to be part of Onu. There is really no good reason for any other lawn enforcement to be there. I haven't complained before because nothing major was happening, but there's been a massive amount of autohits recently.

In other words, only people leaving the Koro would have even barely seen the Sovos and Reaper fight. There's also a burning building on the other side which should capture more attention. Thank you.

[Zeal]

Hey, I'm gonna be away for a few days, so no activity from me. If you're interacting with me (I think that's only BioBeast), no bunnying. Seriously.

I don't want to come back to find Zealokan half-dead. Or, anyone else for that matter

[Voutok S'Tythe (Ray)]

The 2012 Arc still hasn't ended? Dang, they must have the busy too.

Alright, no rush. Just find it funny that it's almost the middle of March 2013 and they're still on the ending of the 2012 story.

Kinda like me playing Assassin's Creed III.

Edited by Voutok S'Tythe (Ray), Mar 10 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[JL v2]

The 2012 Arc still hasn't ended? Dang, they must have the busy too.

Alright, no rush. Just find it funny that it's almost the middle of March 2013 and they're still on the ending of the 2012 story.

Kinda like me playing Assassin's Creed III.

You're excluding the fact that Assassin's Creed III has a horrid ending, unlike this place's story.

[snoip lion]

Do hear that sound?

Listen carefully.

That's the sound of information that has nothing to do with this game being posted here.

If you listen even closer you can hear the children crying and screaming at such a preposterous, ridiculous, and pointless event.

Don't do that.

[Voutok S'Tythe (Ray)]

The 2012 Arc still hasn't ended? Dang, they must have the busy too.
Alright, no rush. Just find it funny that it's almost the middle of March 2013 and they're still on the ending of the 2012 story.
Kinda like me playing Assassin's Creed III.

You're excluding the fact that Assassin's Creed III has a horrid ending, unlike this place's story.

I wouldn't know. That's kinda the joke; I'm still playing the game that takes place at the end of 2012. But...

Do hear that sound?
Listen carefully.
That's the sound of information that has nothing to do with this game being posted here.
If you listen even closer you can hear the children crying and screaming at such a preposterous, ridiculous, and pointless event.
Don't do that.

So yeah, that.

Edited by Voutok S'Tythe (Ray), Mar 10 2013 - 06:11 PM.

[Dallas Winston]

So, I've been doing some thinking.

 

I sat here and read and reread the past arguments and things Aaron’s told me, cross referencing facts and some of the more cerebral plot-driven posts this year Matlock-style, and somewhere along the line I came to a conclusion all at once: there’s nothing prominent about Heuani.

 

Okay, that’s not true. I mean, we have his cheekbones, his jawline, his eyes, his swagger, his attitude, his general demeanor.  We’ve all, as a player group, come to associate all of these things with Heuani, but these associations are just largely to give ourselves some insight into him as a person, when in reality we’ve been given absolutely nothing to glean from his character that could give us a clue about the most prominent mystery of all: who is Heuani? The rub of that is that we literally have nothing about who Heuani is as a person, or, more importantly, his identity. Right?

 

Wrong.

 

As I write these words, I’m also casually reading the latest Heuani post, which was one of the best pieces of literature I’ve had the good grace to read on this website. There is nothing redeemable in Heuani (apart from the amazing chemistry he has with Dorian, but that’s neither here nor there) and he has become without a doubt one of those characters that everyone loves to hate. In my years on BZP, I haven’t seen a lot of characters, in RPGs or in the Library, truly like him, and come to think of it I probably haven’t seen any at all. He is sadistic, cruel, and has a callous disregard for anything beyond his own hedonism, even at times showing casual scorn for his master when he feels it is safe to do so. Even so, all of these traits assemble to become parts of a greater whole; he defies expectations by being more than an inside-the-box villain; rather, he sits – as befits his element and nature – in the cast shadows on the outside of the box. That character archetype happens to be my area of expertise, which is why I feel uniquely qualified to get inside his head and, hopefully, get some insight all of us have missed on our quest to understand just who Heuani is – and was.

 

Heuani’s profile says it all: he has a vanity streak that you could land a 747 on if you cared to. He makes a bigger deal out of being the lieutenant than even he has the right to, and this can give us a greater insight to him than you may believe. In Heuani’s own words, from the Kumu Islets:

 

 

Heuani could feel all the beings around him grow tense as they awaited his next move. He enjoyed that sensation deeply. When the sun shines through a well-crafted lens, its light refracts to brilliantly illuminate a single point, thereby magnifying its generous energies on a spot until that spot is scalding, dangerous, blindingly bright. Heuani imagined as though he was in that focus, but a focus of shade rather than light; he found it to be a pleasing visual. The Toa of Shadow vaguely recalled an age before he had exercised this powerful will; he realized now that he had always wanted it, really, but it the yearning had merely failed to crystalize in him back then. It'd been kept in check by his duties, the tyrannical expectations of others. 

Heuani no longer had such expectations hanging over his shoulders.

 

Nobody expects a lieutenant to do much, apart from simply follow; expectations are cast upon the leaders of the world, the go-getters. Leaders are the ones expected to perform their duty to the bitter end; now that Heuani is but a lieutenant, someone who does the dirty work for a master, these expectations are lifted from his shoulders, and it leaves him feeling free. This ambition also makes sense in the deal that Heuani made with Makuta: he was not the only one, as he thought in his most recent IC, but merely the first, a go-getter. Why, after all, would a leader sit around and wait for someone else to act when he can go ahead and make the choice himself? As you follow the rabbit hole of Heuani’s thought process, it slowly becomes more and more apparent that the Toa of Shadow is not as cerebral an individual as he’d like to pretend he is sometimes. He is impulse in manifest; everything he does is pride related, vanity related, hotheaded. Remind you of anyone?

 

That isn’t the only thing this pride inadvertently shows us about Heuani’s inner character. From Kini-Nui:

 

 

Heuani shut his eyes and conjured anything and everything into his mind to avert it from his loss to Joske, the root of his fury; The Toa of Shadow pulled image after image from his memory, a barrage of things meant to calm him. Heuani remembered the ecstasy of fine prizes he had taken, his blood-joy during the hive attack, the cold bright mountaintop where his body did not melt the snow, the refraction of light through his sword, snapping Kapura's neck, the dark space between shadows.

 

As I said before, Heuani isn’t cerebral; he’s a feeler, not a thinker, nor a schemer. He enjoys feeling things, the quest to feel things. Thinking and scheming, he leaves to his master; they’re not his forte. That leads us even further down the rabbit hole. I wouldn’t be able to connect this evidence with anything if it hadn’t been for the latest Heuani post, but as it is I now have the conclusive proof I need to make my next point more than just an assumption. Read on:

 

 

"Stop," she said simply, stiffening under Heuani's grip. Heuani let his fingers fall. "I have not forgotten."

 

 

Heuani bowed his head for a moment, exhaling, before looking back up. "Neither have I," he said, smiling more weakly than he intended. He had lent no lightness to the situation.

 

"We haven't forgotten, either," said one of the male Toa. Heuani's chest gripped angrily; he recognized the cadences of that voice, and hearing it set him on edge, as it always had. "You broke."

 

"I did not break," Heuani retorted sharply, spinning to the male Toa. "I made a choice. I saw that I had a choice."

 

"You chose betrayal," the other Toa said, approaching Heuani. They were still the same height - that had always bothered Heuani - and the other Toa even looked a little like Heuani, now that their faces had been carved by the same sculptor. "You chose to follow your selfish impulses. It isn't admirable."

 

"I-" Heuani said, before stopping himself. He looked back at the dark beauty; she was watching him impassively, and even her distance seduced him. He noticed the way her hand stroked the stone wall, and envied the rock face. "I followed my heart," he pleaded to her. "You have to see-"

 

"You no longer have a heart," the other Toa sneered, stepping between Heuani and the female Toa. "None of us do, not now. Our hearts have been lodged in others. Once we kill them, we will be able to retake what was ours."

 

"Who do you think took our hearts out of us in the first place?" Heuani grinned sadistically, gleeful at his informational advantage as he spoke to all the others. "Our master took our hearts, and then he lost them... They were taken by the Chronicler, no less..."

 

"The Chronicler?" another one of the Toa asked. "I never liked-enjoyed him much. He annoyed-pestered me, and so did his-"

 

 

Kay, so.

 

As you can plainly see, the three or four other Toa Mata shown so far have all kept, by and large, their personalities. Darker facets of those personalities, yes, but they are still mainly the same people. Lewa still has that stupid, annoying treespeak (WHY, AARON? :C) and Gali is still the same sweetheart we all fell in love with as seven year olds, except much, much more vamped out. Then there’s Heuani and the rival, who is a blunt, cold man. The rival does not mince his words, which is a trait that’s shared by both Tahu and Kopaka, but he cuts with them. He doesn’t blow you to smithereens, he bleeds you dry. Does that seem like the trait of a Toa of Fire to you?

 

No. Of course it doesn’t, because it’s not, and it never has been. Much as the Toa Maru were amplified by the souls of the Mata, the Mata were amplified without them; Gali retained her sad wisdom, Lewa probably got even more annoying with that ignorant dialect of his, the rival got even blunter, more cruel, and Heuani…what?

 

None of the Toa Mata, after all, were deliberately vain. They did not think of themselves as the greatest thing to happen since the other side of Heuani’s pillow; why would they, when they were bound to duty as they were? That leads me to this:

 

 

"I of all people am aware of the hotheadedness that can strike a Toa of Fire... Toa of Fire should really learn to think. Do some thinking now: to free your pretty friend here would be a positive waste in this weather; twice as much effort for something she'll be able to get out of later? I don't think that's quite wise, to tire yourself out so quickly."

 

And this:

 

 

"'It takes one to know one,'” Heuani mused as Joske hastily recovered his posture. "I haven't heard that flick in a while, I can admit. Perhaps because it's a laughably juvenile one. Unfortunately for both of us, Joske, I don't think you do know me. How could you? The people who come to know me always die... If you want to know me, feel free to join that list." Heuani’s face was blank, but something stirred around his lips. "In fact, you remind me of one such person. He's dead now, but he used to be like you; stubborn, idealistic, and pigheaded. You even look a bit like he did; well-built, attractive, proud..." He stared into Joske's eyes - the two Toa were almost identical in height, so neither could look down upon the other.

 

And even this:

 

 

The victory would have been his, if he had only slain Joske earlier, before the game had changed. Heuani subconsciously traced the scar on his face, cradled his forehead in one hand. He had let his better logic go, just to enjoy himself…Heuani hated realizing his impulsiveness.

 

How ironic it was to have lost to a Toa of Fire on counts of impulsiveness. Heuani of all people should have known better. His fingers closed of their own accord into tight fists.

 

 

Consider, for a second, all the evidence above, and remember that Heuani is chiefly defined by his vanity. Heuani considers himself, his past self as a Mata, dead and gone, a remnant of the past; he has ascended. He feels like he’s greater, now, with his irresistibility, power, and charisma. He considered his team dead, after all, and the look on his face when he saw them describes quite aptly his feelings towards that chapter of his being.

 

That, more than anything, is what drives his rage at his loss to Joske. He’s lived through the personality quirks of a Toa of Fire, knows them better and more intimately than anyone, and yet he still fell for them hook, line and sinker against someone who hadn’t even had time to learn the tricks himself. It is this conqueror’s mentality that really enrages Heuani, not just the fact that he lost, but the fact that he lost to someone lesser.

 

This brings about the final point: Kopaka.

 

Kopaka’s shield. Kopaka’s home turf. The irritation of starting fires by hand.

 

More than anything, Heuani is satisfied with his place, even elated by it: he derives comfort from the power he has over other beings, and when he lost against Joske, something was shaken in his psyche. For just the briefest of moments, he felt insecure, lesser, and then that moment was stretched out even more when he saw the Mata. We’ve seen how Heuani reacts to being humbled: even at the slightest sign that Dorian (I love you baby <3) had a chance of winning at a duel against him, Heuani skewered him brutally and left him in the middle of the forest in a cold form of irritation.

 

Why? Because he’s superior. He’s vain. He’s prideful. At times, he’s hotheaded. Conquering Kopaka’s turf, taking his shield, reminds him of his superiority over the world outside his bedroom: remember how, when he tried to comfort himself, he conjured up the memory of how he had laid in the snow, let it contour around him, and how it had not melted, merely bent to his whims. It reminds him that he is better, and him shattering the shield is a sort of sad symbolism; at the current moment, the true moment of greatest weakness, he shatters the memento of what truly made him great. It’s not irony at all, nor is it respect for Kopaka: adopting the traits of his rival reminds himself that he’s superior to the rest of the world at large.

 

So, with that said, all the evidence, all the psych evaluation, all the subtle little tells…I truly believe Heuani is, was, and will at heart forever be Tahu.

 

There you go, Aaron. Happy birthday.

 

-Tyler

Edited by Tyler Durden, Mar 10 2013 - 06:19 PM.

[Visaru]

...

 

Well, that was pretty impressive.

[Nuju Metru]

How elaborate. Emphasis here on the "labor."