21 replies to this topic

[tent163phantoka]

I've had this theory for a while, but never got around to posting it. Alright. Now, we know Ackar, Vastus,Gresh,Tarix,and Kiina were all given elemental powers by Mata Nui. I theorize that not only they, but all Glatorians, have latent elemental powers, but they need to be awakened by a powerful artifact. Here's a fun little animation, inspired(like the rest of this theory) by a theory of SPIRIT's on the old forums(link) which won bonesiii's Key to Nongu award.

Evidence

• the powers of the Glatorian named were all unlocked by Mata Nui holding their weapons to the Mask Of Life, an artifact so powerful, ayoe who unworthily touches it is cursed with a curse that (with the for-a-while exception of Metus) goes on for the duration of the contact with the mask.
• The Great Beings based the Toa, who have elemental powers, after the Glatorian.
• It has bee confirmed that the tools of the named Glatorians are merely channels for the powers.

Thoughts? Comments? Already confirmed/dupetopic statements? Please Post!

[Toa of Italy]

To be honest, I find this theory a little far-fetched.

We have seen the Mask of Life grant powers before (usually they have been called curses, but they are still powers). I don't remember if Greg ever addressed this specific issue before, but I seem to recall he said that Mata Nui had given the Glatorian Elemental Powers because in his universe Toa have them (and the Glatorian, especially the ones he gave powers to, were the most similar thing to Toa there was on Bara Magna).

As for inspiring the Great Beings, I am sure the Glatorian inspired the Toa, but I don't see why this makes it necessary for them to have Elemental Powers. The GBs simply took the elemental association (which a Glatorian or an Agori could theoretically change just by changing armor color) and perhaps the fact that, during the Core War, Glatorian used weapons charged with elemental powers.

However, I can't find any actual evidence to contradict your theory, so I admit it is possible.

[Gresh's Thornax...Ouchy!!!]

Hmm. Interesting. I always had an idea that Glatorian had some distilled power that, over millennia, had become weak and uncontrollable, though now I think more about it, I have a more detailed theory:

• When the GBs created Toa, they based them on Glatorian, right down to the DNA structure (or Bionicle equivalent)
• The Mask of Life was created with certain behaviours to apply to certain beings, e.g. most Toa would have an elemental boost, or generally fixed, most other species would get a curse, etc.
• When the Ignika came into contact with the Glatorian, it recognised them as Toa (because of the DNA equivalent similarities) and detected a blockage in elemental flow, so it ignited their elemental sparks, not realising they had none in the first place.
• With full elemental power, it detected their 'normal' statuses.

Still, only GregF can decide the truth. Nice theory!

[tent163phantoka]

Hmm. Interesting. I always had an idea that Glatorian had some distilled power that, over millennia, had become weak and uncontrollable, though now I think more about it, I have a more detailed theory:

• When the GBs created Toa, they based them on Glatorian, right down to the DNA structure (or Bionicle equivalent)
• The Mask of Life was created with certain behaviours to apply to certain beings, e.g. most Toa would have an elemental boost, or generally fixed, most other species would get a curse, etc.
• When the Ignika came into contact with the Glatorian, it recognised them as Toa (because of the DNA equivalent similarities) and detected a blockage in elemental flow, so it ignited their elemental sparks, not realising they had none in the first place.
• With full elemental power, it detected their 'normal' statuses.

Still, only GregF can decide the truth. Nice theory!

That's pretty much my theory, except more detailed. but thanks!

[Makuta Matata]

That's what I originally thought. I mean, there isn't really any other explanation...

[bonesiii]

Disclaimer: The Gold Key to Nongu Award does not certify theory accuracy. The sponsor of the Gold Key to Nongu Award does not neccessarily endorse and/or oppose said theory. The sponsor of the Gold Key to Nongu Award remains ignorant of the exact meaning of the word "Nongu." The originator of the term "Nongu" may or may not be insane. Not available in some domes, void where prohibited.

You nommed, I 'pproved.

This may not be the most Spherus-Magna-shattering theory that has ever been, but it's logical, and most of all it is a theory with evidence, in S&T, right here in the desert of 2012 lol. So yes, I think it deserves this. Congrats.

[tent163phantoka]

Disclaimer: The Gold Key to Nongu Award does not certify theory accuracy. The sponsor of the Gold Key to Nongu Award does not neccessarily endorse and/or oppose said theory. The sponsor of the Gold Key to Nongu Award remains ignorant of the exact meaning of the word "Nongu." The originator of the term "Nongu" may or may not be insane. Not available in some domes, void where prohibited. You nommed, I 'pproved. This may not be the most Spherus-Magna-shattering theory that has ever been, but it's logical, and most of all it is a theory with evidence, in S&T, right here in the desert of 2012 lol. So yes, I think it deserves this. Congrats.

Thanks! I have a screenshot of your post on my maj and as my desktop background. I thank you for this prestigious award.

[Ghabulous Ghoti]

But why did the Jungle Glatorian gain Air powers?

[Jowm]

My theory about why the Jungle Glatorian gained elemental powers is this; in the MU both Toa of Air and Toa of The Green had green armor color, unless I'm mistaken, and so the same went for the glatorian, but since they didn't have any active elemental powers they couldn't tell the difference so they all got thrown in the same lot so to speak, so any green glatorian that gained air elemental powers just happened to have inactive elemental air rather than the inactinve element of The Green. Toa of air seemed to like plants as well(Lewa) but I think that was probably mostly related to the fact that the height of trees and swinging on vines etc. brings them closer to their element.

Edited by Jowm, Feb 05 2012 - 09:55 PM.

[bonesiii]

It's also possible activation of elemental power in general doesn't necessarily involve the identity of the power. They all could have had the Jungle element before, but once it was gone, its identity went with it.

If so, in order to activate it, you'd have to add in an identity as part of the process, and the identity of Air happened to be added due to confusion instead of the same identity they originally had. Compare it to a computer that can run a game if you put a CD in -- the potential is there, but which game it will run depends on which CD you put in.

[Jowm]

Please pardon me for being contradictory Bonesii, but either I'm not understanding your theory very clearly or it seems to contradict tent163phantoka's theory. Let me get this straight, you are sayin that your theory is that the Mask of Life recognized the DNA smiliarity and gave them an elemental ability then an elemental spark? If that is what you are saying, here's what's wrong with that: according to tent163phantoka's theory, which we can assume is correct, the glatorian already had dormant elemental powers, and the Ignika simply gave them an elemental spark, which contradicts your theory that it gave them an elemntal ability. Also, if it just gave them an elemental ability at random, then it seems very conincidental that Ackar just happened to have recieved elemental Fire, Tarix and Kiina elemental Water, Gresh and Vastus elemental Air etc. I think my theory seems more likely, no offense, it just seems to make more sense to me.

[bonesiii]

The problem is, we have no other evidence that there were Air Glatorian to get mixed up with Jungle (besides the power they got). For example, there was no Element Lord of Air, just Jungle (who is confirmed to control plants), so as far as we know there were no Air Glatorian to get mixed in.

It seems likely to me that elemental ability can be distinct from element type, just as in MU physics; there is elementally neutral "Toa Energy" which is the same in all Toa, and then there is "elemental energy" which is different.

This would also be similar to Element Swaps in the fanon Expanded Multiverse; there we established that Matoran, Toa, Glatorian, Agori, etc. can all change elemental energy association, without affecting whether or not they have elemental power (and this seems canonically plausible). So a Toa of Ice like one of our main characters can swap elements to a Toa of Sonics, and still remain a Toa with elemental powers.

In this case the Ignika would be what changed the elemental association, probably due to mixing them up.

Also, it isn't surprising according to the color-mixup logic that red was given fire, or blue given water, since those are the same in the MU. What I'm curious about is Sand and Rock, since those are different too. I don't recall an answer on those off the top of my head.

[fishers64]

I'm pretty sure that Greg said that the reason Gresh got air powers was because Mata Nui assoiciated green with Air because that's the way things were in the MU.

Interesting...but maybe it doesn't contradict the theory. Maybe Green Glatorian can go either way. You would have thought that the GBs got green= air from somewhere.

[Jowm]

Hmmm, both good points. Interesting about the lack of an elemental lord of air, and yet the existence of air glatorian, the genetic makeup of a glatorian with elemental Air must be at least slightly different than the genetic makeup of a glatorian with the element of The Green, or else it seems there would only be one or the other in the MU, as, like fishers64 said, the GBs must have gotten air from somewhere, I wonder if there is some relation between the two elements besides just the common armor color, the fact that plants produce oxygen and Toa of Air control Air, naw, that's probably too much of a stretch.

[bonesiii]

I don't think it's too much of a stretch, really. We're just talking about the reason the GBs picked green for both, right? Then any connection however slight may have been what they arbitrarily used as their reason to pick the color. It's not like that choice has to have anything to do with physics rules or anything.

Edited by bonesiii, Feb 07 2012 - 04:06 PM.

[Legolover-361]

This theory is simple, yet sometimes even the simplest occurances need explanations. It seems reasonable to me that energy within Glatorian needs to be awakened by something; perhaps their weapons during the Core War were endowed with energy by the Great Beings?

[Jowm]

That's true, bonesii. So then, assumig there is a close enough connection between the element of Air and the element of The Green that they were both governed by the element lord of Jungle, I remain with my theory, that there were glatorian of two types within Tesara, and Vastus and Gresh happened to be glatorian of Air. Good point Legolover-361, I wonder if they had their elemental powers before the shattering, but when the shattering occured there was enough energized protodermis in the air to affect them, and the energized protodermis being, who controls energized protodermis, used the energized protodermis thrown into the air by the shattering to mutate them jsut enough so that they would no longer be able to use their elemental powers so that they could not cause such a catastrophic event ever again, but when the Ignika encountered them it reversed their bodies back to being able to use their elemental powers. The problem I find with the theory I just presented is that I don't see how energized protodermis that changed them at the time of the shattering could alter the elemental functionality of glatorian that came later on, such as Gresh.

[fishers64]

That's true, bonesii. So then, assumig there is a close enough connection between the element of Air and the element of The Green that they were both governed by the element lord of Jungle, I remain with my theory, that there were glatorian of two types within Tesara, and Vastus and Gresh happened to be glatorian of Air. Good point Legolover-361, I wonder if they had their elemental powers before the shattering, but when the shattering occured there was enough energized protodermis in the air to affect them, and the energized protodermis being, who controls energized protodermis, used the energized protodermis thrown into the air by the shattering to mutate them jsut enough so that they would no longer be able to use their elemental powers so that they could not cause such a catastrophic event ever again, but when the Ignika encountered them it reversed their bodies back to being able to use their elemental powers. The problem I find with the theory I just presented is that I don't see how energized protodermis that changed them at the time of the shattering could alter the elemental functionality of glatorian that came later on, such as Gresh.

I do not believe that Energized Protodermis can manifest itself in gaseous form. There is no evidence for that. Further, why would the Glatorian need to change - it was never specified that the Glatorian used elemental powers without weapons during the war. And why would the EP being want to change them? And the EP being is in the MU, not Spherus Magna. I'm confused.

[Jowm]

Hmmm, as for energized protodermis being able to take on a gaseous form, I am unsure, what do you think, Bonesi? Ah, you are correct, my mistake, they did only use them with weapons, in fact I remember a specific time when a glatorian used a weapon that belonged to a glatorian from another tribe and the weapon didn't blast his element, but the element of the tribe the weapon belonged to, even stronger proof that you are correct. My mistake, then, they didn't heve elemental powers, but elementally charged weapons, and there is already a topic for those so I guess I'll move on to that . As for the EP, my theory, which you have proven incorrect, was that he would want to change them so that they could not cause a disasterous occurance such as the shattering ever again. And actually the EP being used to be in Spherus Magna, unless I'm mistaken, and some of his form was placed within the MU.

[bonesiii]

Well, I interpreted you to mean more like a mist (lotsa droplets), which is plausible, I guess. The whole thing together is a bit of a stretch, though.

And it's still possible an elemental ability, in terms of having the mental capacity to control them, was involved. The original theory here probably does need modified towards this, and maybe nothing was awakened at all; it's just that the weapons weren't charged. But we know that Turaga or Matoran can't control full Toa elemental power because of their brain's setup or capacity or something like that. So something similar to a Toa's mental capacity could be true also of Glatorian.

On the other hand we've seen countless weapons with powers in Bionicle that have nothing to do with the user; any old joe who picks it up can control it just fine. So the topic's theory isn't necessary... but still plausible with some alterations, as I understand it.

And yes, the EP being was (or claimed to be) sorta of everywhere EP is, or able to teleport to all its locations, and we know EP was in the core of Spherus Magna; it's what the whole Core War and Shattering that got all this started was about.

[Erebus]

I am still looking for GregF quotes related to this topic, but I found one so far:

1. I know that Mata Nui, with the Ignika, is (or was) capable of unlocking Glatorian's elemental powers. Would he be able to do so with a Vorox (I know he wouldn't, but I'm just asking)?

1) I wouldn't call it "unlocking" so much as bestowing, and yes

[fishers64]

I am still looking for GregF quotes related to this topic, but I found one so far:

1. I know that Mata Nui, with the Ignika, is (or was) capable of unlocking Glatorian's elemental powers. Would he be able to do so with a Vorox (I know he wouldn't, but I'm just asking)?

1) I wouldn't call it "unlocking" so much as bestowing, and yes

Well, since we are going that route:

O.k thanks, I´m sorry but I didn´t understand your answer on the 7, the Glatorian had the powers, they didn´t needed weapons to use them, so why Mata Nui had to change the weapons if they could use their powers through their hands?

Because he didn't want them to know the power was in them, he wanted them to think it was in their weapons. The idea of elementally powered weapons wasn't new to them, they had those in the war. The idea of them themselves having elemental powers would probably have disturbed them.

ANSWER: Glatorian elemental powers are generated by their bodies. Their "machine parts" are too minimal in most cases and are not designed for energy storage.

7.-you said that Mata Nui let the Glatorian think he had charged up their weapons though he was giving the powers to the Glatorian and the weapons were just the focus, does this mean that they had the powers but needed a weapon that could focus them? if so then they can only use the powers when they have that specifical weapon unlike the Toa that can use their powers through their hands?

7) No, it does not mean they have to have the weapons to use the powers.

(Looks like I need to update the What GregF has to say about Current Storyline Topic again.)