976 replies to this topic

[Ymper Trymon]

On to matters unrelated to an episode I have yet to see, I'm watching Captain America, and I was a little amused to see a couple of actors I knew but hadn't expected - actors whose names I don't actually know, like the guy who played Cohen the Barbarian in The Colour of Magic, or - and more relevantly - the actor who played the Dream Lord in that one episode of Doctor Who. He even, funnily enough, has the bow tie.

[Lord of Adders Black]

Spoiler

Isn't it more sexist to say that they're not allowed to feel guilty? That they aren't allowed to have that emotional response?

Again, you're not quite understanding what I'm saying. Nowhere do I say she's not allowed to have that response. Some people just can't have children and its worse in Amy's case since its not a natural thing. But to feel guilty and ashamed purely because she can't give her husband anything he wants? Its something we've only just seen Rory wants and have never seen Amy want, we never see them go through options (bringing up adoption again), never see them talk about it, just that she can't have kids so she must divorce Rory. Which isn't how it goes if the people do love each other. So yes, its sexist

the actor who played the Dream Lord in that one episode of Doctor Who. He even, funnily enough, has the bow tie.

Toby Jones. He's also the voice of Dobby in the HP movies

[Booker DeWitt]

Spoiler

Isn't it more sexist to say that they're not allowed to feel guilty? That they aren't allowed to have that emotional response?

Again, you're not quite understanding what I'm saying. Nowhere do I say she's not allowed to have that response. Some people just can't have children and its worse in Amy's case since its not a natural thing. But to feel guilty and ashamed purely because she can't give her husband anything he wants? Its something we've only just seen Rory wants and have never seen Amy want, we never see them go through options (bringing up adoption again), never see them talk about it, just that she can't have kids so she must divorce Rory. Which isn't how it goes if the people do love each other. So yes, its sexist

the actor who played the Dream Lord in that one episode of Doctor Who. He even, funnily enough, has the bow tie.

Toby Jones. He's also the voice of Dobby in the HP movies

Spoiler

I really don't see how that's in any way sexist. It's just another possible reaction to the situation - a sort of knee-##### reaction. There are no sexism issues here at all.

- Tilius

[Ymper Trymon]

Excellent, I'll remember that name. You wouldn't happen to know the name of the other fellow - the old Norwegian guy near the beginning/Cohen the Barbarian in that Discworld movie?

[GSR]

Oh Moffat, you so crazy.

Spoiler

I got a huge kick out of Coleman showing up. My mom hadn't the faintest idea who she was, but I was grinning like a moron when I realized, yes, that was really her.

And then how she wound up... oh, this is going to be good, seeing how they sort her out. I'm really impressed they managed to keep her appearance in this ep under wraps.

That said I agree the Amy/Rory breakup subplot wasn't that well done. Sort of felt like it was there just for the sake of giving them something to do.

[ChocolateFrogs]

Spoiler

Moffat is pretty big on fairness for all and staying away from sexism. So I trust that what he wrote is kosher and reflective of each character's personality.

JLC is pretty!
Also seeing her was a total surprise.
But she's so pretty!
Can't wait to see how she comes back in the future. I'm in the group thinking Doctor picks up her up at a past point and acts to save her throughout the last half of the series.

-CF

[Wotsiznaim]

Spoiler

JLC is pretty!
Also seeing her was a total surprise.
But she's so pretty!

Spoiler

She's amazing

[Yukiko]

IDK the PBS airdate for Sherlock, but both seasons are out on DVD and well-worth your money. Picture quality and able to watch over and over!

-CF

No, Sherlock aired in May and I watched it. (And now I have to wait two years. T.T) What was the original British Airdate though? Then I can figure out when I can watch S7 of Doctor Who. (I don't have cable.)

Arrrrggg....so I have to wait 4 months at least. Must...not...click...on spoilers.

[Lord of Adders Black]

Excellent, I'll remember that name. You wouldn't happen to know the name of the other fellow - the old Norwegian guy near the beginning/Cohen the Barbarian in that Discworld movie?

Not off the top of my head, no. I'm sure wikipedia has it though

[Lord Koji]

Last season felt weak. I hate Dalek episodes.

This was fantastic.

Spoiler

Assuming Oswin is the Companion, and it's not another Freema situation with two characters like that, then it doesn't make sense if he traveled with her prior to conversion. She'd remember him. Unless something happened in the meantime. I'd also not want another River situation.

I did love Oswin's character. She's fantastic. I would like it to be her that's the Companion, instead of another character played by Jenna.

[ChocolateFrogs]

Last season felt weak. I hate Dalek episodes.

This was fantastic.

Spoiler

Assuming Oswin is the Companion, and it's not another Freema situation with two characters like that, then it doesn't make sense if he traveled with her prior to conversion. She'd remember him. Unless something happened in the meantime. I'd also not want another River situation.

I did love Oswin's character. She's fantastic. I would like it to be her that's the Companion, instead of another character played by Jenna.

Spoiler

I feel like her role this episode was too big and too normal (ie, no alien makeup or anything, like Karen Gillan in Fires of Pompeii) for her to just appear as someone else entirely. Perhaps The Doctor won't realize who she is until it's very too late, and they're heading to the parliament, or she just runs off and joins the Alaska or something.

-CF

[Wotsiznaim]

Spoiler

Oswin might get her memory wiped or something, y'know, like Donna. You never know really, especially when Moffat's in charge

[Jean Valjean]

Spoiler

Regarding the whole Amy/Rory debate, as far as I was concerned it was realistic. That's not what sends most marriages down the drain, but some marriages do go down that way. I didn't over-analyze is. As far as Amy's feelings of "guilt" (or as I thought of it, insecurity) were concerned, I didn't interpret that as sexism upon the pat of Moffat. I would feel bad too if I couldn't help complete the deep emotional drives of the person I love. It isn't quite a matter of sexism, and frankly I'm glad that she still thinks of Rory. That's not beating down on women; I think that regardless of sex spouses should try to complete each other, and part of what Rory feels would complete him is being able to consider himself a father.

Anyway, I didn't come here to debate. To my surprise, I found out on the last day of August that there was a professor from my old college who was hosting a Doctor Who party at his house so that Whovians without BBC America could see the season premier. Lucky me. It was especially cool that most of the people there were college age, and obviously all fans. There were tons of major debates going on during the advertisements, none of which I bothered taking much part in. The only one I felt obliged to follow was the Tennant vs. Smith debate, and included within that debate a Rose Tyler vs. Everyone Else subdebate, in which case I passionately disliked Rose and didn't connect to Tennant's hyperbolic charisma whatsoever. Nobody changed their opinions and everyone was just as stubborn as ever, but it was interesting to hear people's views solidify.

Meanwhile, didn't take the episode too seriously or question much. What I did take seriously was my desire to be entertained, and I'd say it was pretty successful. I think that my favorite joke was the Smallville-esque humor when the Doctor said "[How much trouble are we in?] On a scale of one to ten...eleven."

I totally saw that joke coming. Everybody laughed. There were plenty of other good moments, but that little bit of humor was perfect for me, and it will be a while before I hear that quote without the immediate association of Matt Smith.

There were some definite inconsistencies with the Daleks, especially the matter of conversion, but I didn't question them much. This is a serious about time travel, and the universe was recently rebooted. They can be as inconsistent as they want. I've long accepted that as part of the reality behind Doctor Who.

[Wotsiznaim]

I think I remember someone once said that there's no continuity errors in Doctor Who, because you just missed the episode where the Doctor went back and changed it

[Booker DeWitt]

Spoiler

Also, I reckon we'll see a Tesselecta Oswin, with the Dalek casing inside, so it'd just look like her regular human body. Basically giving her a second chance. Obviously the Doctor will have to go pick her up before the Asylum blew up. OR MAYBE a Tesselecta landed there to KILL HER 'cause SHE DANGEROUS, but then SHE CLEVER so she ended up inside and in control of it

Also, caps of every version of classic Dalek that were in the episode are here, if folk are interested.

- Tilius

Edited by Tilius, Sep 02 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[ChocolateFrogs]

Also, caps of every version of classic Dalek that were in the episode are here, if folk are interested.

- Tilius

I completely missed the Special Weapons Dalek, and was sad.

I loved how Rory asked, "What color?" Which is a valid question and everyone laughed at him!

-CF

Edited by Picard, Sep 02 2012 - 07:49 PM.

[Sisen]

Last season felt weak. I hate Dalek episodes.

This was fantastic.

Spoiler

Assuming Oswin is the Companion, and it's not another Freema situation with two characters like that, then it doesn't make sense if he traveled with her prior to conversion. She'd remember him. Unless something happened in the meantime. I'd also not want another River situation.

I did love Oswin's character. She's fantastic. I would like it to be her that's the Companion, instead of another character played by Jenna.

Spoiler

I feel like her role this episode was too big and too normal (ie, no alien makeup or anything, like Karen Gillan in Fires of Pompeii) for her to just appear as someone else entirely. Perhaps The Doctor won't realize who she is until it's very too late, and they're heading to the parliament, or she just runs off and joins the Alaska or something.

-CF

My assumption is it just happens long after she stops being the Doctor's companion, since no one is a companion forever.

[Lord Koji]

Actually, I found something interesting.

Spoiler

It turns out at the New York premiere someone asked a question regarding Oswin. The answer was something along the lines of that Colemen had just been cast in that episode already, so it's a Freema situation basically. Cast in an episode, then made companion. Just happens that it's in the same season.

Of course, supposedly. I'd need to find the exact wording.

[Booker DeWitt]

Actually, I found something interesting.

Spoiler

It turns out at the New York premiere someone asked a question regarding Oswin. The answer was something along the lines of that Colemen had just been cast in that episode already, so it's a Freema situation basically. Cast in an episode, then made companion. Just happens that it's in the same season.

Of course, supposedly. I'd need to find the exact wording.

Spoiler

But that's very clearly not the case, what with all the 'remember me' stuff, and it being the 'big surprise' and the way that they've had aaaaaaages to ready the new companion, they aren't going to cast her as a guest then give her a regular role in the same series. The thing with Freema was RTD not really planning that far, and it being written off in a line. Moffat plans ridiculously, and he'll have planned this, obviously.

There are people all over saying 'Oh, it's just coincidence, it'll be her sister or something and won't matter', and those people are so clearly wrong it's unbearable having to explain how. Half the point of putting her in the first episode as a surprise is to make people go 'Well I know she's the new companion, but she's a Dalek so how is it going to work? Tesselecta? Pick her up earlier in her timeline?'. The response to this isn't going to be 'lol its her identical twin'. The discussion is meant to be 'Tesselecta or something?!', not 'Will her presence in the first episode matter when she joins?', because it's Moffat and it's a stupid question anyway. It couldn't be more spelt out with the 'remember me' line and the look to camera.

- Tilius

Edited by Tilius, Sep 03 2012 - 12:27 PM.

[Ymper Trymon]

Yeah, I just rewatched The End of Time, and compared to Moffat, Davies really could be kind of insufferably bad at thinking the plot through. Moffat plans like Da Vinci engaged in random acts of technological supervillainy - he does it for fun, and he does it extremely well. Davies planned like water treatment plant technicians make a souffle - he isn't an expert, and planning meticulously would have gotten in the way of his funky space saviour motif.

Edited by Ymper Trymon, Sep 03 2012 - 01:19 PM.

[ChocolateFrogs]

Yeah, I just rewatched The End of Time, and compared to Moffat, Davies really could be kind of insufferably bad at thinking the plot through. Moffat plans like Da Vinci engaged in random acts of technological supervillainy - he does it for fun, and he does it extremely well. Davies planned like water treatment plant technicians make a souffle - he isn't an expert, and planning meticulously would have gotten in the way of his funky space saviour motif.

It's refreshing to see a post affirming Moffat's genius and Davies' shortfalls. Too often do I see the opposite, mostly among people who don't want to think enough through Moffat's plots.

-CF
(However, we can give a little credit to Davies here and there. What he did to Donna was a total Moffat move. And he brought back The Master as John Simm!)

Edited by Picard, Sep 03 2012 - 02:08 PM.

[Booker DeWitt]

I still think Moffat has his flaws, mind. He hasn't yet reached the heights of Blink or The Empty Child yet. The Pandorica Opens was good, but then the whole Big Bang 2 reset was very Davies-esque, and all of his female characters seem to be 'feisty' domestic abuse-y types. And his plots are sometimes needlessly complicated and have distinct holes, or are a bit silly like the muddled up time in the S6 finale, with Churchill and a mammoth and stuff. Overall, series 5 and 6 were way better than 2 and 3 for me, and probably better than 1 and 4 as well, though those two are the PINNACLE of the RTD era.

I really want a perfect Dalek story next time they turn up. VotD started off well before jelly bean Daleks and Bracewell being disarmed with love, and AotD was great but kind of lacked something....but this is maybe because of my own expectations of it. Still the best Dalek story for ages, though.

Next time, I want Davros to be back in a big way (you'd have thought he'd have been put in the Asylum, really), with a more specific aim than convert/destroy everyone, and possibly working with the Doctor in some way. And lots of Daleks, too, possibly RTD Daleks in classic colours. Just a classic, perfect Dalek/Davros episode. I hate it when episodes are near-classics - Churchill and Daleks is a concept that could've been fantastic, but got let down by the apparent need for a Dalek redesign.

- Tilius

[Ymper Trymon]

....The VotD Daleks do kind of look like jelly beans.

[ChocolateFrogs]

I call them Skittle Daleks. XD

Davros showing up in the asylum would have been awesome. But also would have been a much different, less emotional story. Because there's no way you could fit JLC and a Davros reveal in the same episode, especially for the series premier.

Also, Tilius:

Spoiler

Are you just dying for a JLC as a Dalek action figure?

-CF

Edited by Picard, Sep 03 2012 - 04:13 PM.

[Wotsiznaim]

Not Jelly Beans.



Jelly Babies.

[Booker DeWitt]

I call them Skittle Daleks. XD

Davros showing up in the asylum would have been awesome. But also would have been a much different, less emotional story. Because there's no way you could fit JLC and a Davros reveal in the same episode, especially for the series premier.

Also, Tilius:

Spoiler

Are you just dying for a JLC as a Dalek action figure?

-CF

Spoiler

Haha, well a regular Dalek figure works, but I wouldn't mind one all chained up.

I still want a Dalek Caan figure from TSE/JE, but I doubt they'll make one now.

- Tilius

[Toa of the Nova Corps]

The more I think about Asylum of the Daleks, the more it seems to get worse.

Spoiler

The Dalek Prime Minister says that "it is offensive to us to extinguish such divine hatred" and then just shoots hundreds of thousands of missiles at the Asylum. It also says that Daleks have a sense of beauty, when the Cult of Skaro say "Daleks have no sense of elegance". On subject of that, how many times did a Dalek kill one of it's kind during Doctor Who's long run? How did anyone hear Oswin as a human even though she sounds like a Dalek when the Doctor arrives? If no being were to get to the Asylum, what was the point of surrounding the planet with nanoclouds? If the Daleks outside Oswin's door were classic Daleks, why didn't they use the models for the classic Daleks in that scene? Why did the Silence make her unable to have children (I mean, what if Melody was stillborn?)? Why didn't Amy and Rory just adopt a child? Whatever happened to River Song? Why didn't they make any attempt to get back together in the span of breaking up and signing those divorce papers?

What I do like about this episode is the direction and the lighting. The special effects were good too. Every time I watch the episode I enjoy it more and more than I initially did, even though this has more holes than swiss cheese. Overall, a good start to the series, even if it has its problems (in my opinion).

Edited by Toa of the Nova Corps, Sep 08 2012 - 07:56 AM.

[Toa Fuffuloo]

Sooo.....

Random: I just realized that Torchwood is an anagram for Doctor Who..... My mind is blown, to say the least, but that's what Doctor Who does to you.

(edit: sorry about the randomness.... I figured someone out there might stand to learn something from my post, haha...)

Edited by Toa Fuffuloo, Sep 08 2012 - 04:08 AM.

[Booker DeWitt]

The more I think about Asylum of the Daleks, the more it seems to get worse.

Spoiler

The Dalek Prime Minister says that "it is offensive to us to extinguish such beauty" and then just shoots hundreds of thousands of missiles at the Asylum. On subject of that, how many times did a Dalek kill one of it's kind during Doctor Who's long run? How did anyone hear Oswin as a human even though she sounds like a Dalek when the Doctor arrives? If no being were to get to the Asylum, what was the point of surrounding the planet with nanoclouds? If the Daleks outside Oswin's door were classic Daleks, why didn't they use the models for the classic Daleks in that scene? Why did the Silence make her unable to have children (I mean, what if Melody was stillborn?)? Why didn't Amy and Rory just adopt a child? Whatever happened to River Song? Why didn't they make any attempt to get back together in the span of breaking up and signing those divorce papers?

What I do like about this episode is the direction and the lighting. The special effects were good too, in my opinion. Every time I watch the episode I enjoy it more and more than I initially did until I remember the plot holes and continuity errors.

Spoiler

The whole thing with the Daleks and the beauty thing can be put down to these being a different load of Daleks - one with a government and such - so they have different and quite non-Dalek values. But it doesn't make much sense for them to say that and then blow the planet up. And Oswin not being heard as a Dalek is indeed odd. And I assume the nanoclouds were just for extra defence. Also I assume that the classic Dalek voices at the start were different to the ones at the end, because Daleks can move around. I don't think the show needs to go into details of why Amy can't have kids, but if there's a load of aliens poking her around it's not too surprising. And they didn't adopt presumably because Amy split with Rory because she felt she couldn't give him what he wanted. And when people break up, they don't always try and get back together, so that's not surprising. And River wasn't in this episode, that's all.

Don't think we really need spoiler tags anymore.

- Tilius

Edited by Tilius, Sep 08 2012 - 12:03 PM.

[Toa of the Nova Corps]

I've just realised something.

The image of a Weeping Angel is itself an Angel, so if you look at the Angel in the eyes, it will create an image in your memory. At the end of Blink, Sally took some photos of the Angels along with the transcript. Seeing as Sally and Larry obviously remember the event (and the pictures), an Angel is going to jump out of the photo or their minds and kill them, or at least zap them into the past. Larry also might have looked at the angel in the eyes when Sally found the doors were locked in Blink, so he must be infected...

Dear God, no one is safe.

Edited by Toa of the Nova Corps, Sep 08 2012 - 07:52 AM.

[Booker DeWitt]

I never liked that image of an Angel stuff, it all becomes too complicated and is a bit silly anyway. It'd be okay if that was only the rule for the Angels in the Series 5 two-parter. Hopefully that's the case.

- Tilius

Edited by Tilius, Sep 08 2012 - 09:32 AM.

[Lord of Adders Black]

Isn't it a popular theory that the Angels in Blink had come from the pictures? Meaning that the Angels emerged from the pictures, sent the Doctor to the 1960s, then hung around until Sally Sparrow came and froze them, but took the photos that they emerged from in the first place which the Doctor then took back in time slightly ready for them to emerge and send him back in time?

[BenLuke]

Don't think we really need spoiler tags anymore.

Some of us don't get BBC in any form, you know, and therefore haven't seen it yet.


Also, I was able to find the episode on the internet a couple days back (HUZZAH), so now I can actually click on those spoilers. . .

[Ymper Trymon]

Yeah, I kind of won't be able to see these episodes until next year, most likely. Netflix is all about delaying things.

[Booker DeWitt]

Wow, really wasn't expecting Dinosaurs on a Spaceship to be that good. I thought it'd be one of those quite silly episodes with loads of stupidity and massive flaws, but it wasn't. It wasn't that silly, and it was just really good, and even better because I wasn't expecting it.

Better than last week's, IMO. Gotta love Rory, but I say that every week.

- Tilius

[Wotsiznaim]

How could anyone not love Rory?

Spoiler

Also, Vorex is convinced that RoryxEleven is now canon thanks to that kiss

Edited by Doctor Wotz, Sep 08 2012 - 03:04 PM.

[ChocolateFrogs]

Dinos:

Spoiler

Meh.
Unfortunately Episode 4 is also written by the same guy. (Who also wrote Hungry Earth/Cold Blood and 42. So that explains a lot.

Edit: Rewatching it now live on BBCA, and there are quite a few good lines. Like the Doctor having a Christmas list.
I'm hoping a second viewing makes it rub off onto me.

Also, a note on Asylum of the Daleks:

Spoiler

Oswald!Dalek was behind a door in the deepest section of the Dalek asylum, where all those Daleks were ones that had survived the Doctor. Hence, her being there. ;_;

-CF

Edited by Picard, Sep 09 2012 - 12:13 AM.

[Wotsiznaim]

Dinos:

Spoiler

Meh.
Unfortunately Episode 4 is also written by the same guy. (Who also wrote Hungry Earth/Cold Blood and 42. So that explains a lot.

Edit: Rewatching it now live on BBCA, and there are quite a few good lines. Like the Doctor having a Christmas list.
I'm hoping a second viewing makes it rub off onto me.

I liked 42 and Cold Blood

Also, a note on Asylum of the Daleks:

Spoiler

Oswald!Dalek was behind a door in the deepest section of the Dalek asylum, where all those Daleks were ones that had survived the Doctor. Hence, her being there. ;_;

Why didn't I notice that? That's the kind of thing I notice :/

Edited by Doctor Wotz, Sep 09 2012 - 03:54 AM.

[Alyska]

Finally got around to watching the Pond Life shorts today. They're adorable! Especially the second one, with the Doctor first barging in like a little kid telling Mummy and Daddy there's a monster in his bedroom, and then awkwardly trying to act like a responsible adult and assure them it's all okay...

Also, I'm a bit late on the Asylum of the Daleks talk, but...

Spoiler

When you think about it, the Daleks must have technology that can generate any sound they want, be it speech or otherwise, since Oswin was able to transmit not only a human sounding voice, but also the music she thought she was listening to. And Oswin was able to manipulate that sound technology subconciously and telepathically.

[CHTrilogy]

I thought I recognised the voice of Robert Webb in that last episode!!

Spoiler

Isn't it more sexist to say that they're not allowed to feel guilty? That they aren't allowed to have that emotional response?

Again, you're not quite understanding what I'm saying. Nowhere do I say she's not allowed to have that response. Some people just can't have children and its worse in Amy's case since its not a natural thing. But to feel guilty and ashamed purely because she can't give her husband anything he wants? Its something we've only just seen Rory wants and have never seen Amy want, we never see them go through options (bringing up adoption again), never see them talk about it, just that she can't have kids so she must divorce Rory. Which isn't how it goes if the people do love each other. So yes, its sexist

the actor who played the Dream Lord in that one episode of Doctor Who. He even, funnily enough, has the bow tie.

Toby Jones. He's also the voice of Dobby in the HP movies

And Mr. Batley in the ITV miniseries Titanic!