1201 replies to this topic

[Katuko]

Depending on how the powers turn out, Rahkshi may get some boosted stats. They were scheduled to be tougher than Toa, but after I added Chain Lightning they began to seem very powerful, so I lowered them again. Balancing everything is a slow process.

[Nevermore]

I think that when you use a power that if you hit the up key you will aim upwards a little and if you are in the air if you hit the down key then you will aim downwards.

[Nujanii: Kanohi Master]

Balancing is indeed a very slow process. Now, Katuko, what is planned for the cordak blaster? Or is it already programmed?

[Bulik]

i think the cordak should be like the toa of irons primary, but with explosive rockets and a larger distance

[Katuko]

I think that when you use a power that if you hit the up key you will aim upwards a little and if you are in the air if you hit the down key then you will aim downwards.

The problem with doing this is that flying then becomes even more useful than it already is. I might end up letting you aim slightly up and down (say, 30 degrees) but not more than that.

Balancing is indeed a very slow process. Now, Katuko, what is planned for the cordak blaster? Or is it already programmed?

i think the cordak should be like the toa of irons primary, but with explosive rockets and a larger distance

You're actually not that far off, bulik. I'm pretty sure the Cordak Blaster will feel like the Iron primary when I'm done. The rockets will have longer range and cause mini-explosions, as you say.

Obviously such a powerful weapon can't be too durable, but just lowering its item HP seems bad to me. Getting hit would then waste a lot of your ammo due to weapon wear. Therefore, I'm most likely going to introduce specific ammo for certain weapons. If it runs out, you're left with a slow "melee" weapon. You could get more ammo by picking up a dropped weapon of the same type. However:

In hand: 50 HP Cordak, 2 ammo
On ground: 23 HP Cordak, 12 ammo

After pickup: 50 HP Cordak, 14 ammo
On ground: 23 HP Cordak, no ammo

There would be a max amount of ammo you could carry.

Edited by Katuko, Oct 28 2011 - 01:07 PM.

[Bulik]

good idea. just dont put restictions of the quake breaker, because i (quite literally) tear my enemies to shreds with it

[alpha123]

I think that when you use a power that if you hit the up key you will aim upwards a little and if you are in the air if you hit the down key then you will aim downwards.

The problem with doing this is that flying then becomes even more useful than it already is. I might end up letting you aim slightly up and down (say, 30 degrees) but not more than that.

It couldn't be the up and down arrows though, since those should stay moving you. The [ and ] keys would probably be my first choice.
I'm against aiming powers (like you said, it makes flying very powerful). However, I think melee attacks should be aimable.

good idea. just dont put restictions of the quake breaker, because i (quite literally) tear my enemies to shreds with it

Actually, I think the Quake Breaker is a bit too powerful right now.

[Bulik]

hey, only in 1 player mode. in online matches nobdy would be such a fool as to run into it

[Katuko]

It couldn't be the up and down arrows though, since those should stay moving you. The [ and ] keys would probably be my first choice.
I'm against aiming powers (like you said, it makes flying very powerful). However, I think melee attacks should be aimable.

Moving wouldn't be a problem. You go up and down rather slowly, and just look at how Teleportation works. Firing off a shot takes barely a second, so you wouldn't even lose that much speed.


Regarding the Quake Breaker: I will buff and nerf as needed. bulik's got a point in that no player will run into it on purpose, but on the other hand it still does massive damage and may turn out to be utterly overpowered after all. We'll see.

[Bulik]

And do i need to mention that the quake breaker breaks easily? you can onlt get about 4 kills before it breaks, unless it repairs

[alpha123]

It couldn't be the up and down arrows though, since those should stay moving you. The [ and ] keys would probably be my first choice.

I'm against aiming powers (like you said, it makes flying very powerful). However, I think melee attacks should be aimable.

Moving wouldn't be a problem. You go up and down rather slowly, and just look at how Teleportation works. Firing off a shot takes barely a second, so you wouldn't even lose that much speed.

Makes sense.

And do i need to mention that the quake breaker breaks easily? you can onlt get about 4 kills before it breaks, unless it repairs

I've gotten way more than 4 kills with a Quake Breaker. Just up your strength. It takes maybe 10-15 weapon HP to kill someone with that thing with a strength of 10.



If it drained less weapon HP, the thing would be way overpowered. If it did less damage, it would be kind of useless because nobody's going to want to stand right in front of it. EDIT: which you pointed out.

Edited by alpha123, Oct 28 2011 - 08:35 PM.

[Bulik]

I get more kills with a quake breaker, mostly because my kiril repairs it, and usaully i am overcharged and on a spawn XD

[Katuko]

Given that the Quake Breaker isn't used for hitting per se, I'll probably make it work like this:

A regular hit does melee damage, possibly slightly less.
Activating it starts the chainsaw part. This deals a set amount of (high) damage not reliant on user stats.

[alpha123]

I like that idea, although why shouldn't the chainsaw damage be reliant on stats?

[Katuko]

Because its damage comes from sticking the chainsaw into someone, not from you actually bludgeoning them with the weapon.

[Chibinuva]

Because its damage comes from sticking the chainsaw into someone, not from you actually bludgeoning them with the weapon.

Makes sense, although then they could put a bunch of stats into other things if they mainly planned on using the chainsaw (such as Element and Mind, which would give them strong elemental powers, and would be good for if they used a Kiril.) That way the strength wouldn't really be needed unless they're a rahkshi that benefits from it (in which case they'd probably be using a rahkshi staff anyways,) or for just plain hitting people (which isn't very effective unless you have a power, like Life Blade, Ice Sword, or Quake Breaker.) Of course, I think it's probably fair, since you would have to drain your other stats to power up Element and Mind, not to mention people are just going to stand there and get sliced apart like AIs.

[Katuko]

Yeah, I can only figure this out via testing.

... By the way, did anyone notice yet that the laser weapons actually use DEX as their main damage stat instead of STR? I did it that way at first to explain why a weapon's projectile got stronger from your stats (it's your mad aiming/gun-slinging skills that does the trick), but I might make these weapons also have a set damage stat.

[alpha123]

By the way, did anyone notice yet that the laser weapons actually use DEX as their main damage stat instead of STR? I did it that way at first to explain why a weapon's projectile got stronger from your stats (it's your mad aiming/gun-slinging skills that does the trick), but I might make these weapons also have a set damage stat.

Didn't notice. Cool. So if they had a set damage stat, would you fire with F and would attacking with A do damage based on your STR?

[Katuko]

Most likely, F would be a toggle between slashing/shooting. Charcters are set to use different carry/attack animations based on the attack style anyhow, so a toggle would be best. Then you could hold your Laser Crossbow like a rifle while running, for example. In fact, I might add this regardless of if the ability becomes toggle-able.

EDIT: Speaking of animations, I began making some new ones today, like an off-hand attack for Rahkshi. Once I finish the new sprites, I can work on fixing the whole animation system to make it more flexible. I already got the mechanics of the system written down, so translating it into code will be more an exercise in patience than thinking ability.

Here's some updated staff heads, by the way.



I'm working on Disintegration, but it's giving me a lot of grief due the small size. Either it looks like a Staff of Poison (the one on the right was one of my attempt at Disintegration until I lengthened it somewhat), or it simply doesn't look right.

Edited by Katuko, Oct 30 2011 - 02:00 PM.

[Exo-Kahgarak]

Wow. You've put a lot of work into this since the BZP forums started their update. Um... I don't really have any complaints anymore (at least, not that people haven't mentioned). A few balance issues:
Toa:
Stone stuns you for a really long time. Once I modified a character to have 15 in every stat and I still only survived against an AI Toa of Stone by standing on a healing-pad thing.
Once shadow is fixed so that it blinds the AI instead of stunning them, I think it might almost be too weak. In combat with a Toa of Shadow, the screen never really darkens enough to prevent me from aiming at them.
Gravity seems very powerful, but this might just be because of Karda Nui's map layout.
Lightning also stuns you for a really long time, and you can't even really tell if you're stunned or not.
Rahkshi:
Disintegration seems really powerful. It destroys weapons and Kanohi and can often get a two-hit kill even against fairly strong Toa.
Poison seems slightly weak.
Hunger seems too powerful now that it drains elemental energy as well as health. Exo-Pyro is easy as long as there are Toa or Rahkshi near to drain energy from now and then. Toa and Rahkshi are laughably easy to kill because I have a constant source of health and elemental energy while they slowly lose health and die.
Quick healing is not so much overpowered as annoying. They have no way to attack you other than melee (which you can usually avoid fairly easily), but their ability to convert elemental energy into health makes them nigh-impossible to kill. It takes over a minute of straight blasting them with elemental powers to kill them, but you usually take almost no damage. Only hunger, with its ability to drain energy, has proven truly effective against quick healing.

[Katuko]

I just started coding again, and these are the current changes:

- Lightning should now count kills properly.
- Stun time reduced from 2 seconds (whoops ) to half a second.
- Shadow no longer blinds bots (until I can fix the issue). It still drains EP on hit.


For the rest of your concerns:

- Stone doesn't stun for that long (1 second). The problem really lies in that the rock fires at that interval, and it's rather easy to hit with. I've tried making the cooldown longer, but that makes it almost useless without me being forced to ramp up damage even further. Removing stun would remove half the point of Stone's passive power as well. It's meant to smack you about something fierce. Once I fix my knockback system I might remove stun and simply make powerful hits fling you around, though.

- Gravity is indeed a bit overpowered. You can hit someone with low gravity (forcing them into the air) then jump, float and push them down again. Fall damage easily kills them then. I was thinking of making Gravity less of a stream and more a burst (like Magnetism). That will force you to actually aim your attack instead of simply streaming the power. It would also allow me to better control the force of the gravity shifts.

- Disintegration must be tweaked. It will keep its power, but I will fix the actual disintegration part into not being so random. Massive item damage instead of random instant destruction sounds better, I think? With the new animation system there will be a small delay to the power firing as well, so that means you can see it coming and try to dodge. Right now it shoots of of thin air with no warning, and that's half the reason why it's so powerful.

- Hunger is also devastating, but it's designed to be. Try fighting any player with a projectile attack, however, and you're screwed. Fireball, Fragmentation beam, Rock Throw, Ice.. all powers that stop a Hunger Rahkshi in its tracks. You can even push it away with Magnetism or outrun it with a Kakama. Plenty of options to avoid close-range fighting with the master of close-range combat.

- In video games, all healers and defensive powerhouses are annoying. That's just how they roll. As you say, they got no other power. Just keep wailing on them and they die. Be cheap and freeze/stun-lock them to prevent the burst healing from taking effect. Bots activate their secondary power once they reach <25% health, IIRC. This heals them for as much as possible instantly, but at a higher EP cost per HP. So keep them stunned to prevent this from happening. If it does, however, they usually have no EP left afterwards.

[alpha123]

- Gravity is indeed a bit overpowered. You can hit someone with low gravity (forcing them into the air) then jump, float and push them down again. Fall damage easily kills them then. I was thinking of making Gravity less of a stream and more a burst (like Magnetism). That will force you to actually aim your attack instead of simply streaming the power. It would also allow me to better control the force of the gravity shifts.

I actually find Gravity pretty well balanced. While it's effective against Toa, it's rather useless against Rahkshi (or anything else that can fly). I do think a burst would be more appropriate for Gravity though.

- Hunger is also devastating, but it's designed to be. Try fighting any player with a projectile attack, however, and you're screwed. Fireball, Fragmentation beam, Rock Throw, Ice.. all powers that stop a Hunger Rahkshi in its tracks. You can even push it away with Magnetism or outrun it with a Kakama. Plenty of options to avoid close-range fighting with the master of close-range combat.

I think Hunger is fine too. One possible issue is if you're draining energy from a lot of people at once, you don't lose any EP and thus end up killing 4-5 people really fast and not even being worn out.

[Katuko]

My main beef with Gravity, personally, is the whole stream deal. It's almost impossible to miss with it, and it's got a lot of effect for just a glancing blow. Expect to see it become burst fire instead, with the stream reserved for other things. Maybe I could make it white and call it Sonics, that would save me some spriting...

Hunger does work well against groups, but bots don't scatter or even care about you as long as there is a closer target. I think it's safe to say that real players would be much harder to successfully drain.

... Which is why I need to hurry up with that multiplayer already. Yadda yadda yadda.

[Bulik]

*waves cane*
hurry up on that multiplayer young'in! I'm not gitting any younger here!

BD
so, will version 9.1 have a release date?

[Katuko]

No.

Here, have a gander at one of the new sprites instead.

Rahkshi off-hand attack!

I'm working on these so that I don't have to worry about shields switching hand anymore. Now I can make everyone attack with either hand. Speaking of shields, I still need a "I'm using my shield now" pose and/or animation.

Edited by Katuko, Oct 31 2011 - 01:12 PM.

[Nujanii: Kanohi Master]

How will the Komau be done? And I'm still getting the "default Toa/Rahkshi" respawn glitch.

[Katuko]

I have no idea how I will do the Komau, to be honest. I'm thinking of removing it from the list because it's power will either be overpowered, useless or just annoying.

I still don't know why that particular spawn glitch happens, but as I've said before I'm going to rewrite the spawn system sooner or later anyways. That will hopefully fix it.

[alpha123]

I have no idea how I will do the Komau, to be honest. I'm thinking of removing it from the list because it's power will either be overpowered, useless or just annoying.

IMO you should just remove it. Maybe replace it with the Arthron, which could display a little map in the corner with dots on it representing the players.

I still don't know why that particular spawn glitch happens, but as I've said before I'm going to rewrite the spawn system sooner or later anyways. That will hopefully fix it.

I wouldn't rewrite the spawn system at all if I were you. It works (except for the occasional default respawn), and rewriting it would take a lot of time that other things need *cough*multiplayer*cough*.

[Nujanii: Kanohi Master]

Yeah, better wait until beta before getting the respawn glitch fixed.

As for the Komau, I'd like to have it in there, but I see no way to get it in. Alpha's probably right in saying it just needs to go.

[Katuko]

I think you guys see respawn as being far more complicated than it really is. It consists of two parts: The settings and the player object. Settings are saved to a list upon character creation. The player object is then created and gets the stats applied to it. The problem most likely lies in that I've made the player object also perform some of the calculations. This is why you will sometimes spawn with less than full health.

Example: You raise your VIT, and the character also has a bonus to this stat due to its element or something. The game control spawns you with the stat-based VIT, but then the player object itself applies the item/element bonus, leading to the max Hp being correct but the HP you have when you spawn being wrong. This can be seen especially well if you "fix" a character file so it has very high stats. You may be entitled to 9000 HP, but you only get 200 when you spawn. :/

I should be able to fix it simply by moving the stat calculation from the player to the spawner. The only reason I haven't done it yet is that I then have to add another list to check the elemental bonuses when spawning.


Besides, do you honestly want me to code some complicated multiplayer stuff when half my system is broken?

Edited by Katuko, Nov 01 2011 - 06:40 PM.

[Nujanii: Kanohi Master]

A good point. I hadn't thought of that last point.

[alpha123]

Besides, do you honestly want me to code some complicated multiplayer stuff when half my system is broken?

Oh my.

Well, I guess you'd better fix that.

[Mehul]

Firstly props to Katuko for sticking around and developing this totally awesome game. I’ve followed this topic since its start, as a lurker none the less, and it’s been absolutely amazing the way it’s progressed.

Now onto the review of the game-

Character creation:

Spot on. I love all the options and customizability, something that I personally have not seen in other FCGs.

A minor suggestion, maybe make the player character in the box animated i.e. if I press an arrow key it plays the running animation if I press the shift key it plays the mask animation/effect and so on. I think this would help people create a character their satisfied with faster by familiarising them with what each button actually does and how the stats will affect their character.

Gameplay:

Fun and Addictive.

I spent about an hour as a rahkshi of chain lightning trying to get more than 30 kills without dying.
The bots seem smart to be smart enough to be challenging, en masse anyway, and I love how each element is being realised. I do think some things are a little OP, a gravity toa can for example just fling other characters both grounded an flying of the edge of cliffs, but I suppose these will be balanced as new things are added to the game.

The only things I’d suggest is that maybe there should be an option to turn bots on/off before starting a map. It can get really annoying when you destroyed all the exo toas but were too late to approach the boss as a random crowd of bots killed him. Also maybe make the mangai (sp?) map darkened for all players who don’t have night vision/x-ray powers.

Graphics and Sound:

Very neat and polished.

Always loved the way rayg sprites look and combined with the particle effects you’ve managed to make pretty good looking game. Music is nice and the sounds of the attacks sound right.
Also animated qwake breaker FTW.

Overall:

In a word- Incredible

~M

P.s.- I’ll admit I did not read all the planned features so sorry if I suggested something that is already going to be implemented.

[Katuko]

Thank you for your kind words. It's you guys that keep me going, so thank you to you to for playing and giving feedback.

Character creation:

Spot on. I love all the options and customizability, something that I personally have not seen in other FCGs.

A minor suggestion, maybe make the player character in the box animated i.e. if I press an arrow key it plays the running animation if I press the shift key it plays the mask animation/effect and so on. I think this would help people create a character their satisfied with faster by familiarising them with what each button actually does and how the stats will affect their character.

I was going to make the preview controllable, but I then felt that I had to make the box larger (to allow attacks). Making the sprite "run in place" should be simple enough, though. Expect to see this implemented along with equipped items actually showing in the preview as well.

Gameplay:

Fun and Addictive.

I spent about an hour as a rahkshi of chain lightning trying to get more than 30 kills without dying.
The bots seem smart to be smart enough to be challenging, en masse anyway, and I love how each element is being realised. I do think some things are a little OP, a gravity toa can for example just fling other characters both grounded an flying of the edge of cliffs, but I suppose these will be balanced as new things are added to the game.

Yes, hopefully I will be able to balance everything as we go along. One thing I've mentioned in this topic about Gravity is that it might become burst-fire rather than a stream. That would force players to aim the wave instead of just spraying it and being almost guaranteed to hit.

The bots are player objects with a sort of "key simulation" script added in. Basically, they pick the closest target and then "press" the button for going that direction. This includes up and down. They also activate their flight power if they are falling too fast or need to go higher, but they don't yet have "rules" for when to activate other powers. This leads to them picking up weapons if they lack one or their own is damaged, but are not capable of thinking "hm, I really need a projectile weapon" like a player would. They also don't care about cliffs, as I'm sure you've noticed. Jump off and they will follow, even if the fall is guaranteed to be fatal.

The only things I’d suggest is that maybe there should be an option to turn bots on/off before starting a map. It can get really annoying when you destroyed all the exo toas but were too late to approach the boss as a random crowd of bots killed him. Also maybe make the mangai (sp?) map darkened for all players who don’t have night vision/x-ray powers.

The first option is scheduled, along with turning the other creatures on/off. I simply haven't bothered to do it yet, ironically enough because it's so simple I would rather focus on more complex stuff that doesn't "insult" my programming skills.

Darkness will be implemented later, once the maps start having both light and dark areas. Mangaia is actually supposed to be the bottom half of a Kini-Nui map (concept image), so there would be light zones for those without said abilities.

Graphics and Sound:

Very neat and polished.

Always loved the way rayg sprites look and combined with the particle effects you’ve managed to make pretty good looking game. Music is nice and the sounds of the attacks sound right.
Also animated qwake breaker FTW.

I'm rather satisfied with the graphics myself. I'm still working on some parts: a new run animation for Toa, proper "hurt" animation for Rahkshi, custom sprites for using shields, axe swings, etc. I also really need to fix some attack graphics so they aren't just gradients. I shiver at Magnetic Repel because it looks so bad.

Overall:

In a word- Incredible

P.s.- I’ll admit I did not read all the planned features so sorry if I suggested something that is already going to be implemented.

There was a lot of discussion in the archived topic, but I don't expect anyone to actually read through it. I do have a long list of things to be done that I already know about, but don't be afraid to comment on things anyways. Come to think of it, I'll be back with said list soon, so you can all see it.

Edited by Katuko, Nov 03 2011 - 11:20 AM.

[Exo-Kahgarak]

Seeing your character in action would be nice, but that should probably be lower-priority.

Magnetic repel looks fine. It gets quite intimidating after the first time you get pushed off the Karda Nui stalactite as a non-flying character.

[Chibinuva]

I'd just like to agree with the gravity having a burst effect, since as fun as it is, that would require is to actually be aimed, and given how strong it is, making it slower and require accuracy would help balance it out. Oh yeah, and since it already looks like waves, you should just recolor it and use it for Sonics. Problem solved. Speaking of accuracy, what were you planning on doing for that, a targeting system for attacks perhaps?

[Katuko]

Accuracy will make the spread of some elements less as long as it is active, and add a slight homing effect to those attacks that are already accurate enough. I'll probably make it burn a lot of EP due the useful effect.

Here's another sprite test, by the way.

Edited by Katuko, Nov 06 2011 - 11:32 AM.

[Nujanii: Kanohi Master]

Pretty good sprite there. I just want to say that I want the shield to be in one hand and not switch to the other when the shield wielder makes a 180.

[Katuko]

That's what I'm working on. I essentially got the code already, but I need new sprites for attacking with the other hand.

I posted a preview earlier, here it is again:


EDIT: Here are some shield/blocking sprites. As you can see, they are not simply mirrors.


I will have to improve that shoulder...

Edited by Katuko, Nov 09 2011 - 02:38 PM.

[Nujanii: Kanohi Master]

Excellent. Might want to make the shields a little bigger though...