634 replies to this topic

[Legolover-361]

Have a problem with writing? Want to get advice from fellow writers such as myself? This is the place to ask your questions and discuss with fellow writers various tips, tricks, and pitfalls to creative writing.

To kick things off -- are any other writers out there planning to enter NaNoWriMo (National Novel Writing Month)?

[Jonestown Bartender]

Lets see if anyone can help me find a direction to take a less then BZP appropriate story. If you want to help say so and I'll PM it too you.

[Eduard Bernstein]

I'm not in the mood to start serious work, and 50,000 words or nobody cares how many there are in NaNoWriMo does count as serious work.

I might write something, but not anything over 5,000 words.
-Dovydas

[Lord Kaitan de Storms]

I hope to. But I'll need to get at least one of my conlangs up to par first, considering the story I plan to write.

[Eduard Bernstein]

Conlangs?

You just said the magic word, bro.

Tell us.
(about them, that is)
-Dovydas

[Lord Kaitan de Storms]

I actually just blogged about them as well, lol.

Basically, the one I am currently working on is the one spoken by the human civilization which is going to be the focus of the first part of the story. Both the language and the civilization are designed to seem generically Indo-European; they're the familiar region where I will start the story, before I move into more unfamiliar territory (involving elves, dwarves, orcs, and such, as well as a great many more conlangs).

The story itself will be, as with all my writing, fairly philosophical and with a moral to it; basically, the characters will start off with a fair number of prejudices (race, class, creed, gender; the standard medieval stuff) but increasingly find these views to be quite frankly absurd. The tragedy of war will also get quite a bit of focus; complete with a subversion of the "always chaotic evil race" trope. Although herein will lie some of the greatest tragedies.

The whole story is, in fact, part of a rather large and ambitious mythopoeia, which will encompass some five ages (prior to this sixth age); my story will be set in the Fourth Age of the world, which is after the spirits have left and magic has been removed.

[Eduard Bernstein]

Well man, seems like you've got a solid, well-developed world planned out ahead from what I hear.

Myself, I recently oversaw a giant rehash of a lot of material, annihilating anything from my world that didn't make sense, thus rendering it 75% better written.

... At the very least, I altogether destroyed a country and a race, making them ancient history as opposed to actually contemporary (in the timeframe sense of my novels, that is). In other words, initially, they would still exist during the timeframe that the books take place in, and now they won't. Knowing my books involved the main characters visiting that country, and the race that inhabits it consequentially, it's kind of a big change, but worth it, because the race being still alive during the time of my novels is just downright impossible or at least heavily improbable.

Plus, the race was a one big racial Mary Sue, just downright the Elves from Eragon (worst portrayal of a fantasy race ever)
-Dovydas

Edited by Dovydas the Nerevarine, Oct 14 2011 - 12:14 PM.

[Aedai Rivin]

I dabble in story writing, and here's one good piece of advice: music, music, music. Listen to music while trying to create a plot or writing; it'll really help you out. I suggest either Two Steps From ######, E.S. Posthumous, Nero, or just any band you like.

Also try to take a Creative Writing class if you can. Middle School is probably out of luck, but I know High School and college has them and I'm pretty sure they offer workshops for adults and such.

And finally, KEEP WRITING. The more you write the better you'll be.
Rivin

[Lord Kaitan de Storms]

Creative writing classes are definitely a good place for getting ideas, if nothing else.

Racial mary sues are perhaps my absolute favourite thing to subvert. I don't think I have one story with multiple races that doesn't subvert the concept of a perfect or at all superior race.

[GSR]

I always find myself with hints of a story floating around in my head but nothing really concrete enough to put pen to paper. I do have fun when I can seize upon a topic, though; I wrote a short autobiographical piece as an introduction for my American lit class this year that I felt very good about though it was limited to a page.

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

I need motivation to start writing a story I've been kicking around in my head for a very long time. The premise is a mixture of traditional fantasy and sci-fi. Early in the timeline, it's pretty typical: elves, dragons, magic, dwarves, etc. Later on, it's revealed that all of the fantasy races are not actually native to the humans' home planet.

It started as a parody of fantasy stories but the further I got into plotting, the more serious the story became.

The plan is to write 8 stories in 4 "books" (probably just web serials because the idea of publishing just doesn't appeal to me), with each "book" telling two stories in parallel. The first "book" will be #2 and #6 for an absurd combination of ancient and futuristic scenarios. (compounded by the fact that most of the interesting things in the future are due to the sudden return of magic)

So, yeah, I have a lot of material but nothing written down. Like I said, I just need motivation (and time) to start.

[Lord Kaitan de Storms]

I'm afraid I cannot offer much for motivation, except maybe NaNoWriMo.

[Necro]

A whole novel in one month?

I'm tempted to, but I don't think I have the time sadly.

[Despair]

A whole novel in one month?

I'm tempted to, but I don't think I have the time sadly.

Same here. Especially since it's in November. I'm going to be very busy that month... :l

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

Mostly it's just describing the story to someone else that motivates me So just by reading my post you've helped. I'll write up a prolouge or something and see if there's any interest.

First, a quick question:
How should I name the home planet of humans? Coming up with a name seems like I can't really do it justice. The only good human-home-planet name I've ever heard is Earth, and that's taken My only other idea is to name it after whatever nation emerged as leader when interplanetary conflict forced unity of the human race, but that would involve a lot of backstory to be written that doesn't affect the main plot.

Second random thought (how I love to ramble): Is fantasy as a genre dying? By fantasy I mean a story that takes place in a universe totally separate from ours. (i.e. Lord of the Rings, Star Wars) Sci-fi with aliens, I consider to be half-fantasy (Avatar, Star Trek) because they at least went through the trouble of inventing some planets, and I begrudgingly give the fantasy title to Chronicles of Narnia because although the main characters are from our universe, the majority of the story takes place in another world. Back on topic, I can't name a recent movie or novel in the fantasy genre that's been popular. Video games seem to be doing OK with fantasy.

[Despair]

It could simply be that more authors are trying to make their worlds more immediately relatable to the readers. After all, when you create a whole new world you will probably have to spend some time describing it.

At least that's what I was thinking when I chose the setting for my story.

[Joseph Joestar]

I've got the perfect storm of deterrents from updating Warrior of the Sun: Too lazy, Not sure how I'm gonna plan stuff out, too busy RPing, etc.

What do

[Eduard Bernstein]

Mostly it's just describing the story to someone else that motivates me So just by reading my post you've helped. I'll write up a prolouge or something and see if there's any interest.

First, a quick question:
How should I name the home planet of humans? Coming up with a name seems like I can't really do it justice. The only good human-home-planet name I've ever heard is Earth, and that's taken My only other idea is to name it after whatever nation emerged as leader when interplanetary conflict forced unity of the human race, but that would involve a lot of backstory to be written that doesn't affect the main plot.

Second random thought (how I love to ramble): Is fantasy as a genre dying? By fantasy I mean a story that takes place in a universe totally separate from ours. (i.e. Lord of the Rings, Star Wars) Sci-fi with aliens, I consider to be half-fantasy (Avatar, Star Trek) because they at least went through the trouble of inventing some planets, and I begrudgingly give the fantasy title to Chronicles of Narnia because although the main characters are from our universe, the majority of the story takes place in another world. Back on topic, I can't name a recent movie or novel in the fantasy genre that's been popular. Video games seem to be doing OK with fantasy.

It's not as much as dying as becoming an elite caste.

... For what I am grateful, let Twilight have all the noobs. You need a brain to understand, to submerge yourself in Fantasy - most people just don't have one.

Also, I dunno if that literally counts as being popular, but Andrzej Sapkowski's novels have spawned a videogame widely critically acclaimed as the best RPG of all time. Fantasy is not dying, again - genres come and go in waves, and right now, there's a literal flood of the vampire romance genre (that virtually inexceptionately sucks) - but idunno about you, but here, the vampire books are disappearing slowly and a lot of High Fantasy has popped up in bookstores.
-Dovydas

Edited by Dovydas the Nerevarine, Oct 15 2011 - 01:31 AM.

[Legolover-361]

I've got the perfect storm of deterrents from updating Warrior of the Sun: Too lazy, Not sure how I'm gonna plan stuff out, too busy RPing, etc.

What do

Sometimes you need a break from writing; perhaps that's the case here. I've taken breaks from writing before, only to come back more inspired than ever.

I'm afraid I cannot offer much for motivation, except maybe NaNoWriMo.

I'm actually doing NaNoWriMo to prove to myself I can write a novel. And speaking of NaNoWriMo...

I have a premise -- in a fictional English town in the 1980s, a novelist begins experiencing strange paranormal phenomena, and one of the few skeptics about the paranormal, who is a news reporter attempting to create the first reality show, investigates. I have vague outlines for the first two chapters. I even have a writing style picked, inspired heavily by British authors such as C.S. Lewis -- to be specific, his book Out of the Silent Planet -- as well as J.R.R. Tolkien and J.K. Rowling. Now I need to figure out a good climax to the story as well as several other important events.

Do you guys have any advice for formulating novels? Or would you say the typical "you need to read to write" advice would work here, too?

Edited by Legolover-361, Oct 15 2011 - 08:17 AM.

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

I actually had a theory as to the disappearance of fantasy: story writers, for some reason now more than in the past, feel like their stories must make sense, and that in order to make sense, they have to explain everything: how stuff works, where it came from, etc. (This attitude has even infected some recent fantasy! Case in point: Eragon/Inheritance) This also means that if it's not in our universe, they feel it doesn't make sense unless they explain where it came from; it's simply easier to set it on Earth, or on a semi-distant planet if they've really got to make their own world.

Different topic: (I seriously cannot stick to one discussion point per post) If I were to post a short story I wrote for an English class a few months ago, would you guys critique it for me? And where should I post it? Another topic, link to a google doc from within this topic...?
My chosen theme for the class was the Internet, so for a short story, I naturally used TRON as my primary inspiration.

[Legolover-361]

You could post that story as its own topic in Completely Off-Topic.

Speaking of stories, would anyone here care to review my two newly-posted original fiction stories whose links are at the top of my signature?

Edited by Legolover-361, Oct 15 2011 - 09:24 AM.

[Tom Mc. Israel]

To kick things off -- are any other writers out there planning to enter NaNoWriMo (National Novel Writing Month)?

Agh, shoot me. My best friend convinced me to do it, and I'm at a point in plotting right now to where I really don't want to back out, I just want to get it over with. XP

[Eduard Bernstein]

You could post that story as its own topic in Completely Off-Topic.

Speaking of stories, would anyone here care to review my two newly-posted original fiction stories whose links are at the top of my signature?

Well seeing as you're doing this


Guys, review (the new version of) Anathain here in COT please?
-Dovydas

[Zeppelin]

Since BZPower was my main source of writing, I've had a huge down time from it. And I'm ready to get back into it. I've had two story ideas that have been in my head. I'm trying to have them both deal with some actual issues and opinions. One of the stories are set in the future. It deals with robots being treated as slaves by the humans. I'm trying to have it bring up issues such as equality, revenge, emotions, and stuff like that.
The other story has this guy who somehow lives and dies, then comes back to life, as a cycle over a century. I'm still trying to figure out how I could make it work. It's supposed to be addressing changes in society and opinions over that century.
Unfortunately... I don't know if I could post either on BZPower.

[Spink]

To kick things off -- are any other writers out there planning to enter NaNoWriMo (National Novel Writing Month)?

Naturally, I've participated last year and a bit the year before, so I intend to participate once again. Though, I'll be using my first draft that I'm 30,000 words in, so I'll have to make a mark on the draft when NaNoWriMo starts and start counting from that point onwards. (Last year I think I made it to 20,000ish).

Otherwise, I haven't done much writing -- outside of notes on the above story and the occasional fleeting idea -- so I'm fairly out of practice. Although, one of the primary reasons why I play TBRPG's is to keep my writing as refined as I can while I'm not working on any stories. (Which has also created multiple characters I've used in stories, such as Reavri, Vex and Kit).

Though, I doubt anything I write in the near future would be posted here. Primarily because I either intend to refine some things and, possibly, get it published in one of many fiction magazines, or it's just not fitting for this 7+ atmosphere.

[Legolover-361]

Though, I doubt anything I write in the near future would be posted here. Primarily because I either intend to refine some things and, possibly, get it published in one of many fiction magazines, or it's just not fitting for this 7+ atmosphere.

I wish I knew a fiction magazine to which I could send writing... it'd be a big step toward becoming professional.

[Spink]

Though, I doubt anything I write in the near future would be posted here. Primarily because I either intend to refine some things and, possibly, get it published in one of many fiction magazines, or it's just not fitting for this 7+ atmosphere.

I wish I knew a fiction magazine to which I could send writing... it'd be a big step toward becoming professional.

There's a website called "duotrope.com" (which has no commenting system and, as far as I'm aware, is completely BZP-safe) and what this does is list magazines, with the use of a filter (genre, age range, sub-genre, payscale, rate of admission/decline) and it'll list magazines that are currently accepting submissions based on the criteria you selected. Of course, the magazines are incredibly picky and some have had submissions from famous authors (like Stephen King) and will be on the search for that quality, though those magazines are usually the ones that provide a professional-level payscale for the submission.

I believe this website is still free, though the last time I used it (a year ago) they were talking about creating a paid-membership due to costs of keeping the server running. (However, it seems to be free right now).

[~ShadowBolt~]

All I can think of is to just start writing. Start with small short stories and slowly get bigger. Don't think of where you wanna be, focus on the journey. And just write and let everything come to you.

[Gorag]

I just learned about NaNoWriMo from this topic. I'm Glad I did, sounds really fun, count me in.

Oh, tips... try to use different archetypes in your stories so they're each unique. It doesn't always have to be "Hero saves the world from Evil King".

[Eduard Bernstein]

Or alternately, try not to use archetypes at all.
-Dovydas

[Legolover-361]

Eh, it's darn near impossible to avoid archetypes altogether. I'd say that, while archetypes aren't necessarily evil, don't always try to include archetypes in your stories. No one wants to read the same thing over and over again; the same applies to writing.

[Tom Mc. Israel]

I have two general tips for writing:

1. Don't write for yourself, write for other people. This can mean a couple of different things - the two greatest interpretations, I'd say, is to write it for someone else so that they can enjoy it, or to write it for someone else to teach them something. You can't always teach something through the literature you write; and besides, I believe it's the reader's job to find the lessons as they apply to him (anagogical truth, (sorta)), not the writer to make the lessons. But although it just sounds like I contradicted myself, I would say that it is important to find a moral in your story and express it, whether it be speaking out against something, or showing how much life sucks if you go through it alone, etc. Not everyone takes the approach to write for someone else, which is perfectly fine - we all work differently. But it is a good idea not to be selfish, even in writing.

2. Read. Reading is like our personal training grounds for writing. It literally helps with everything - it can improve your vocabulary, it can change up your style if you're getting bored with it, it can make you think deeper about things which in turn folds back into tip #1, and even if you read for enjoyment, it still makes you think. But I'd definitely say that it helps the most with vocabulary and style. For example, after reading CS Lewis' Till We Have Faces, I wrote a novella in first-person perspective - I'd never written in first-person before, and I found it to be a very enjoyable experience, because I didn't have to describe everything as the narrator, I just had to describe what the main character was seeing and thinking and feeling and sensing. And if you think your vocabulary is suffering, read some Shakespeare or Dostoevsky. I realize that not everyone can pack through an enormous theological Russian novel, but they can be great reads just for the words alone.

[Gorag]

Eh, it's darn near impossible to avoid archetypes altogether. I'd say that, while archetypes aren't necessarily evil, don't always try to include archetypes in your stories. No one wants to read the same thing over and over again; the same applies to writing.

Aren't all stories based off archetypes, just presented in different ways (ie: the characters, setting)?

[Legolover-361]

1. Don't write for yourself, write for other people. This can mean a couple of different things - the two greatest interpretations, I'd say, is to write it for someone else so that they can enjoy it, or to write it for someone else to teach them something. You can't always teach something through the literature you write; and besides, I believe it's the reader's job to find the lessons as they apply to him (anagogical truth, (sorta)), not the writer to make the lessons. But although it just sounds like I contradicted myself, I would say that it is important to find a moral in your story and express it, whether it be speaking out against something, or showing how much life sucks if you go through it alone, etc. Not everyone takes the approach to write for someone else, which is perfectly fine - we all work differently. But it is a good idea not to be selfish, even in writing.

I partially disagree with this -- if you can't please yourself, chances are you won't be able to please other people. While you should write for others' enjoyment, remember that your primary objective is to allow yourself enjoyment.

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

Personally, I'm a fan of expanded archetypes. So while you can still have "Hero saves the world from evil king", I like to expand on it, add twists, add motivations. Maybe, just maybe, the hero isn't some legendary chosen warrior that can do stuff no one else can; maybe he's just the only one who cares. Why is the evil king actually in power; what gain does he see from ruling the world?

Basically, acknowledge what archetypes you're using, then build on them so you tell a new story constructed of old elements.
Unrelated: here's that short story I mentioned; it's a pretty quick read and there's plenty to critique.

[Eduard Bernstein]

Eh, it's darn near impossible to avoid archetypes altogether. I'd say that, while archetypes aren't necessarily evil, don't always try to include archetypes in your stories. No one wants to read the same thing over and over again; the same applies to writing.

Aren't all stories based off archetypes, just presented in different ways (ie: the characters, setting)?

Yeah, but those archetypes worm their way in on their own. I agree that it's impossible to have a story without archetypes, I just don't think you should go all, "Right, TVTropes, some page about I trope I generally enjoyed, let's now write a story about it".

... Yeah, I did that once. Kinda cool story worked out, but it also turned out not to follow that trope.

In other words, don't intentionally TRY to get archetypes in.

Tom Mc. Israel: I can't begin to describe how I disagree with you. MORALS IN STORIES ARE COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY. In fact, it's probable they'll tick off the reader and you'll come across as a stupid idealist trying to shove his thoughts down another's throat. My stories are moralless, written for the sake of writing them, and that's how people happen to enjoy them.
-Dovydas

Edited by Dovydas the Nerevarine, Oct 16 2011 - 01:33 AM.

[The Shouting God]

Oh boy it's this topic again.

Well, I've been focusing on keeping both my 'heroes' and 'villains' have decent motivations and flaws (I really hate black and white stories). I also like to subvert our morals a bit, focus on alien ones. For example, one of the antagonists murdered his father the King because he disapproved of his anti-mixed-species relationships, seeing as he loved someone of another species. His brother, one of the protagonists, is sided with the (now-deceased) King, as hybrid children are usually sterile, and so would probably spell doom for the future of the planet. This kinda just punches 'love triumphs above all' in the face, as if it did, then it kinda dooms the world.

Then again, this is a story for the later books, as the main series I'm working on right now focuses on a revolution by animal-human hybrids in the near-future, rather than the far future.

It has lots of railguns and flamethrowers. LOTS.

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

Tom Mc. Israel: I can't begin to describe how I disagree with you. MORALS IN STORIES ARE COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY. In fact, it's probable they'll tick off the reader and you'll come across as a stupid idealist trying to shove his thoughts down another's throat. My stories are moralless, written for the sake of writing them, and that's how people happen to enjoy them.
-Dovydas

Like you said about archetypes, morals will worm their way in, too. For example, if you're strongly against capital punishment, your story will include parts where a hero spares an enemy's life and simply imprisons them, or agonizing over a recent victory, wondering if it was self-defense or murder. You'll get your point across either way, but if you try to get your point across, you'll just sound preachy.

Even if your main character doesn't align with your personal moral beliefs (which would probably be really tricky to write, but I think I'll have to try it sometime as an exercise), you'll probably wind up creating another character to voice your opinion on the situation.

[Legolover-361]

Aesop-style morals are unnecessary. However, I do think, if possible, you should try to communicate some sort of idea. For example, Not everything is black and white is as good of an idea to include as Love conquers all. Heck, you could even have the idea be Technology is awesome and get away with it. My point is, an idea to the story adds an extra dimension that readers will surely enjoy.

[The Shouting God]

Aesop-style morals are unnecessary. However, I do think, if possible, you should try to communicate some sort of idea. For example, Not everything is black and white is as good of an idea to include as Love conquers all. Heck, you could even have the idea be Technology is awesome and get away with it. My point is, an idea to the story adds an extra dimension that readers will surely enjoy.

Mine has all 3.