216 replies to this topic

[Ra's al Ghul]

We don't play with Barbie's Tea-time Playhouse like guys think girls do.

What kind of seven year old boys do you talk to, lol.

[Peach 00]

We don't play with Barbie's Tea-time Playhouse like guys think girls do.

What kind of seven year old boys do you talk to, lol.

Excuse me? The guys I talk to are eighteen to over twenty. And actually, I can't take kids younger than ten, and don't talk to any beneath that age. There are a lot of older guys (Specifically guys over fifteen) I know that do think that girls older than twelve still play with Barbie dolls, but at least they can comprehend my point without thinking I'm an eight-year-old whining about immature seven-year-olds. Your point?

Edited by Peach 00, Apr 13 2012 - 08:36 AM.

[Hahli Husky]

I, um, I don't think he was being sincere.

No way, really?

[Peach 00]

I, um, I don't think he was being sincere.

No way, really?

How I love sarcasm.

(EDIT: This is shameless advertising, but in a second, I'm going to put this in the first post as a BIONICLE story. I haven't gotten any reviews for it, but here is the link to my story, Angel - I would really appreciate comments for it. Both advertising and putting it in the first post for creations, just an FYI to you guys - stories, art, and MOCs related to female BIONICLE characters are welcome, just put the link in your post and I'll put it in the first post. )

Edited by Peach 00, Apr 13 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[Ra's al Ghul]

We don't play with Barbie's Tea-time Playhouse like guys think girls do.

What kind of seven year old boys do you talk to, lol.

Excuse me? The guys I talk to are eighteen to over twenty. And actually, I can't take kids younger than ten, and don't talk to any beneath that age. There are a lot of older guys (Specifically guys over fifteen) I know that do think that girls older than twelve still play with Barbie dolls, but at least they can comprehend my point without thinking I'm an eight-year-old whining about immature seven-year-olds. Your point?

Um, then my point is that those guys act like seven year old boys, lol. That's stupid.

@Hahli: I just wanted us to all be on the same page.

[Peach 00]

We don't play with Barbie's Tea-time Playhouse like guys think girls do.

What kind of seven year old boys do you talk to, lol.

Excuse me? The guys I talk to are eighteen to over twenty. And actually, I can't take kids younger than ten, and don't talk to any beneath that age. There are a lot of older guys (Specifically guys over fifteen) I know that do think that girls older than twelve still play with Barbie dolls, but at least they can comprehend my point without thinking I'm an eight-year-old whining about immature seven-year-olds. Your point?

Um, then my point is that those guys act like seven year old boys, lol. That's stupid.

@Hahli: I just wanted us to all be on the same page.

Actually, you have that backwards. They're out of/in college, living out on their own, have a car, have a driver's license, and have a job. By thinking that people who actually have a good work ethic and have completed those parts of life are seven-year-olds, you're saying that you are smarter than they are because you haven't accomplished any of those things in life yet? I think you've got that wrong.

Nonetheless, even if they consider that, it's a small percentage of guys I know that think that. The point being, it crosses guys' minds, and it's an unjust stereotype about girls/women.

But we're off-topic. I'd like to discuss the different gender-oriented elements, a topic we discussed in the old thread. For instance, should it have been better if we had gender-neutral elements, or if we kept what we have now? I'd think there would have been a lot more creative characters if we had gender-neutral elements. Then again, there might have been too many insignificant characters, but the point is, there could have been a female fire-Toa leader, or something to that effect, or even male water-Toa, female Toa of Ice, et cetera.

Edited by Peach 00, Apr 13 2012 - 10:28 PM.

[Ra's al Ghul]

...Why are you not understanding what I'm saying, guys who think girls play with barbies post grade school are stupid, sad to report.

[Peach 00]

...Why are you not understanding what I'm saying, guys who think girls play with barbies post grade school are stupid, sad to report.

Let me undo this whole lie that has been wrought so far because you keep on forcing a rather immature point on me. First of all, I started out by saying that guys think we play with Barbie's Tea-time Playhouse, which you said that I talked to immature seven-year-old boys. Guys obviously think that, about girls under the teenage age group or above if those teenaged girls wish to stay in their childhood or for nostalgiac reasons. I was mainly referring to girls under the teenage group, but then I was put into the point that girls play with Barbies even after they're over twelve or thirteen, because you just kept on forcing you're point across to try to get me to shut up and admit that I'm some whiny eight-year-old who complains about immature seven-year-old boys.

Point is, I just can't take stereotypes that depict girls as females who are obsessed with the color pink, live in fantasy worlds, and obsess over Barbie. There are girls like that, I won't exactly say the stereotype is being untruthful, but my point is, I dislike the stereotype, even if it is true.

You started saying that guys I know that are a heck of a lot smarter than you are stupid and immature because they actually have opinions that aren't forced onto people. I was annoyed by this, so I defended my friends because you were insulting their intelligence, not to mention my own. I felt provoked into this argument, because you insisted on being slightly immature about your point.

So, to put it simply, because you're in that teenager 'I'm right I'm always right and you're just stupid and you're wrong so I'm the smartest person in the whole dang world' phase (Which, I'll be honest, I'm going through, too), you fired up an argument that could have been completely avoided had you not purposefully provoked me into arguing. I think the more significant portion of this discussion is, you went about the wrong way of making your point, which wasn't even necessarily essential to the discussion.

To actually end this reign of stupidity, I'd like to just bury the hatchet and say that neither of us were right or wrong, because we don't actually have the statistics to prove our assumptions. You can't prove my friends are stupid because you don't know them, and I can't prove I'm right that guys think girls older than twelve still play with Barbies.

Agreed?

Edited by Peach 00, Apr 13 2012 - 11:09 PM.

[Ra's al Ghul]

...first off, ]:

Second, if I can rephrase because as I am in my 'I'm always right' phase, I need to defend my ego, and I will do that by adding the words 'is', 'opinon', and other various grammatical fixes, which would leave me with the phrase: Thinking girls play with barbies post grade school is a stupid opinion.

third, y so much words...

[Peach 00]

...first off, ]:

Second, if I can rephrase because as I am in my 'I'm always right' phase, I need to defend my ego, and I will do that by adding the words 'is', 'opinon', and other various grammatical fixes, which would leave me with the phrase: Thinking girls play with barbies post grade school is a stupid opinion.

third, y so much words...

Indeed, that is the point of the 'I'm always right' phase. However, sometimes people defend their ego in a rather stupid fashion, which we were both on the edge of doing. I wouldn't consider it a stupid opinion, there is sense to that, but I think stupid would belong more in the place of 'it's stupid they're still playing with Barbies post grade school', not as much they think they still play with them after that time period, which would be stupid. Placement of words there makes a lot of difference, I guess. =P

Apologies, lol. I just wanted to get my point across, I just didn't think it'd end up being that long. Nonetheless, I apologize for being moronic about this argument, I think it was pointless for both of us to keep on going on about it.

[Ra's al Ghul]

...I think your in a phase.

Apology accepted, should move on with our lives and quit internetting anyways.

[Peach 00]

...I think your in a phase.

Apology accepted, should move on with our lives and quit internetting anyways.

Who knows. We probably both are, I deny I'm in it and I probably am.

Lol, agreed.

Anyway, I wanted to discuss the earlier topic suggested, discussing gender-neutral elements. Any thoughts?

[Ra's al Ghul]

Gender neutral elements would ruin the specialty of the water type, and if I recall, there were exceptions to that rule.

Kinda arises the question why is water so feminine?

[Tekulo the WindWriter]

... You two are adorable. XD

Just to clarify (though why in Karzahni am I bringing this up again?) I'm pretty sure Peach meant that it is entirely possible for adults to be well-educated and in their own careers and still be biased and believe in certain stereotypes (It's something I've noticed in the workplace as well, unfortunately). From what I understand, it's a part of human nature. Does that justify it? No, but you don't have to agree with everything your friends do. It's okay to disagree with your friends contrary to popular belief. Though, because you disagree, it doesn't mean you're better than they are, it just means you have a different view of the world, and there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, that's probably why debate exists in the first place, and a healthy debate is fine so long as it doesn't turn into a screaming match.

So, then, onto gender and elements. I would have been more interested in a female earth character, actually. Also, a female stone, a female air would just be amazing (because let's face it; air is the best element ever! -here's where that "disagree with your friends" comes into play. XP). A female toa of fire would be interesting because that character sounds more like Chiara; a non-fem fatal that has more of a strong-willed attitude which is something we haven't seen much of before in the Bionicle story. Still, I think the other personalities would be interesting to see as well.

I'd love to see a male toa of water that fit with what we've seen with characters such as Gali and Hahli. His name shall be Wali and he shall be awesome. XP The male characters did seem diverse (and Onua especially was calm, collected and peaceful, so a male toa of water wouldn't be too far of a stretch in my opinion), so I would have liked to see more options for the female characters as well.

[Taka Nuvia]

[...]

I'd love to see a male toa of water that fit with what we've seen with characters such as Gali and Hahli. His name shall be Wali and he shall be awesome. XP The male characters did seem diverse (and Onua especially was calm, collected and peaceful, so a male toa of water wouldn't be too far of a stretch in my opinion), so I would have liked to see more options for the female characters as well.

I'd love to see that, too. It would be rather interesting, and something different.
Also, 'Wali' is an awesome idea xD

[Tekulo the WindWriter]

I'd love to see that, too. It would be rather interesting, and something different.
Also, 'Wali' is an awesome idea xD

His romantic interest shall be a female toa of Plant Life named Ivah. XP

[Taka Nuvia]

His romantic interest shall be a female toa of Plant Life named Ivah. XP

...
This is incredible xD I would love to see it happen

[Peach 00]

Indeed, that was my point. Thank you for clarifying for me, Tekulo.

Ohmygosh I loved that movie. I would love to see that, it would be so cool. xD

But I'd love to see a female earth character, yes. A female earth character similar to Nuparu would be best, he seemed like a comic relief character in the '06 year.

[Judge Alex Humva]

Here's a question for you all; in my gender-swapped Toa story, involving Great Being trials and all that, I've hit something of a snag. I'm not sure how to get the Toa (hereby called Marcus until I figure out another name) to convince his friend (hereby called Brutus until I remember his name xD) that he is who he says he is, and not some random female Toa that Marcus pulled in? First draft had Marcus revealing this big uber secret of them killing someone, but then I realized that's not exactly the best way to go about things. So, suggestions?

(To anyone curious; the story arose from the previous BZPGC topic, in which we talked about the Great Beings being sexist. I proposed the idea that the GB behind the sexist routines were put on trial for bad science, and so the jury/council/whatever decided to take a Toa of Fire and turn this usually male Toa type to female, to see what happened, and of course, to see if the Body is a Plaything of the Mind holds true. The story's been in limbo for some time, but I'm getting the will back up to finish it.)

[Tekulo the WindWriter]

Oh dear. I smell shipping potential between Marcus and Brutus. XP

I'd do something intimate (knowing me anyway) like if they were both matoran, then a little anecdote about them sneaking off somewhere or breaking a minor rule (after all, matoran destined to become toa are special apparently, so I think a little adventure like that would be believable and could add to their characters). Kinda like a Jaller/Takua bromance thing like they did in the first movie, only the fate of the island didn't depend on it. That way the reveal isn't so dark and the story could develop the characters as well as paint a picture of the past how things used to be (Marcus has changed, so obviously that's a nice concept to work around in my opinion) and plus it would something so insignificant and personal that Brutus could be swayed by emotion as well as logic and memories.

But, that's the angle I'd go for. I'm a sucker for that kind of stuff. XD

[Judge Alex Humva]

In these stories, shipping is a must between former bromates.

That could work, though. Definitely could work. Keeps the light hearted and fun aspect I was hoping for, as well as the insanity that ensues. It'll be interesting when Marcus meets up with his former-form relationship. Interesting indeed.

[Pantera]

Great Beings sexist?

Interesting...

[Judge Alex Humva]

It's really the whole point of the story, actually. I feel it's unfair to call the entire race sexist, so what I'm doing is having having a few bigot scientists having introduced their ideals into the programming. Keeps the GB as a whole on a better standing.

[Pantera]

I love it so far. You're ideas, modern day office problems!

GENIUS, MY GOOD SIR!

[Scanty Demon]

First, why do people keep comparing Katniss everdern and Bella Swan. Those two have little to nothing in common except being female and sharing some physical traits (skin color etc.). Katniss makes things happen because she wants them to happen. Bella does things because the plot wants them to happen. In short Katniss is a way better female protagonist than Bella will ever be.

Back on the current subject, gender neutral elements would be interesting if were done well. To be honest I didn't really have a problem with gender oriented elements. I would've liked to see more than just three (four if you count Light) elements not to mention more than just one female character per team. Back to gender neutral elments, it would have to be more than just a Gali type character whose element isn't water but iron. She'd have to be unique and go through character development throughout the story. This kinda reminds me of the whole Orde controversy where the idea of a male Toa of Psionics would have been interesting until he turned out to be the hair trigger rage male stereotype that carries some unfortunate implications.

On the subject of female personalities, I think they really could've diversified the female characters seeing as the three female Toa (possibly Gaaki too) were pretty much the same. It was nice to a change to this with the Voya-Nui resistance Ga-Matoran and Kiina (who despite her cringe worthy Wahoo! I consider her a better female Bionicle character that was a good guy than Hahli, Gali, and Nokama because Kiina didn't have a motherly personality she was the town nut job) maybe Varian was a good character type as well. What are your thoughts on the female toa personalities in Bionicle?

Also I kinda have this story idea involving two female Toa who get transported to another would (they'd both be the Bionicle age equivalent of late teens) one is a Toa of Psionics who is essentially a teen rebel and a free spirit (admittedly I still need to flesh her a little bit more). The other one is a Toa of Lightning unfortunately I really don't have much of a personality but I want the Toa of Lightning's personality to clash with the Toa of Psionic's rebellious spirit. Any ideas?

(that was long hope everything I said made sense)

[Ra's al Ghul]

First, why do people keep comparing Katniss everdern and Bella Swan. Those two have little to nothing in common except being female and sharing some physical traits (skin color etc.). Katniss makes things happen because she wants them to happen. Bella does things because the plot wants them to happen. In short Katniss is a way better female protagonist than Bella will ever be.

They probably see something you don't. Hunger Games critique is almost never received well, if I can throw that out there.

[Alyska]

*cracks knuckles*

I have been gone waaaay too long...

@Alex Humva- On your point about education- I'm studying teaching at the moment, so I might be able to shed some light on the subject. Generally, the impression I get is that as a teacher, you need to be flexible enough to cater to the needs of your particular group of students. Now, you're obviously going to have a high degree of diversity within your class, but generally, most teachers often find particular interests or strengths that are common within a group, and that's something they can take into account when planning lessons.So, you do generalise, but it should be based on what you know about the students as people, not necessarily just on gender, (or race, ethnicity, culture, etc for that matter). Now, maybe that's harder to do in a high school environment as opposed to primary school (which is what I study), but even then, you should at least be trying to get to know the students and figuring out how to cater to the lot you've got.

As for segregation... generally, I think it's unnecessary, mostly because I think it's healthy for girls and boys to mix, but I can see some of the merits- eg, some all-boys classes with a male teacher providing a strong role model have been shown to produce good results in some of the "rougher" schools- but like I said, I think that it very much depends on the nature of the students, and it wouldn't be right for everyone. Hope that helps- I actually have a workshop about gender tomorrow, so I'll get back to you if I learn anything interesting.

As for all this talk of cyborg barbies and Hunger Games, Mattel presents...


Katniss Everdeen Barbie!

I am honestly not sure whether to laugh or cry...

[Peach 00]

Great to see you back in the topic, Alyska! ^^

@Scanty Demon: For the Toa of Lightning character, probably a very obedient character would be good. Kind of somebody who's been a sheltered person, never really seen much of the world, obeys every command - that type of character. Might seem a good personality for the psionics-Toa to interact with, I think, maybe I'm wrong. The character can still be interesting, she can make witty sarcastic comments as additions to her personality, but otherwise she'd have to appear dull to the Toa of Psionics.

I agree with Alyska on gender segregation, though, it doesn't seem necessary but it has advantages, although a range of disadvantages to boot.

Because I'm not a fan of Hunger Games, I think I'll be crying now.

[Taka Nuvia]

[...]
Because I'm not a fan of Hunger Games, I think I'll be crying now.

... and because I have no idea about the Hunger Games, I still don't know what to do xD

[Alyska]

There's good reason to cry even if you are a fan- it's just wrong on so many levels:

1. The Hunger Games has a bit of an anti-consumerist theme, thereby making ANY kind of merchandise a ridiculous idea.
2. Personality-wise, Katniss is about as far removed from Barbie as it's possible to get, and I think she'd be pretty peeved off about the existence of such a product.
3. The Hunger Games is about teenagers murdering each other for sport. Barbie is typically aimed at five to nine year old children. I think this doll is more aimed at adult collectors, but still...

On the plus side, Barbie's figure DOES somewhat accurately mimic that of a malnourished young woman whose family struggles to find food.

As for me, I think saying whether I "like' the book or not is... complicated. I think it is a very well written and engaging book, but I think that's different to liking it. It pushed all the right buttons, and left me feeling emotionally ruffled and disgruntled, which, I can only assume, was the point. I can't really say I liked it, but I get the impression that I wasn't meant to like it, and that simply liking it would be missing the point. But, then, so many other people loved it, so now I wonder whether I'm the one missing the point...

[Judge Alex Humva]

Alyska~You do definitely raise some good points, though, at least in my opinion, gender segregation just fails at a certain point. It does have supporting evidence for its cause, but if you weigh it against everything else, and all the wrongs that could happen... it gets rather iffy. But that's basically what you said, so yeah, I agree with you xD

And on the story front, I've managed to get back into the right frame of mind and get real writing done, so hooray and all for that. I am having difficulty with the middle though; I've got the beginning and end all nice and ready in my mind, but the middle... it's not going so well. Notably, I don't know what I should do; basically the story (not that many spoilers, if any of you care xD) follows the same track; Marcus finds out his change. Marcus tries to figure out who did it. Marcus figures out who did it and rants at the GB. More specifically, Marcus and Brutus set out to go and find the teleporter the GBs are using, thanks to Brutus' mask power giving them an idea of where to go. I don't know if they should meet up with the rest of the Toa team or just go straight there or what.

So yeah. Difficulties xD

[GSR]

First off, I'd just like to say, that Barbie's face is straight-up soulless. I mean, they all are, but there's something about that one.

Back on the current subject, gender neutral elements would be interesting if were done well. To be honest I didn't really have a problem with gender oriented elements. I would've liked to see more than just three (four if you count Light) elements not to mention more than just one female character per team. Back to gender neutral elments, it would have to be more than just a Gali type character whose element isn't water but iron. She'd have to be unique and go through character development throughout the story. This kinda reminds me of the whole Orde controversy where the idea of a male Toa of Psionics would have been interesting until he turned out to be the hair trigger rage male stereotype that carries some unfortunate implications.

On the subject of female personalities, I think they really could've diversified the female characters seeing as the three female Toa (possibly Gaaki too) were pretty much the same. It was nice to a change to this with the Voya-Nui resistance Ga-Matoran and Kiina (who despite her cringe worthy Wahoo! I consider her a better female Bionicle character that was a good guy than Hahli, Gali, and Nokama because Kiina didn't have a motherly personality she was the town nut job) maybe Varian was a good character type as well. What are your thoughts on the female toa personalities in Bionicle?

Also I kinda have this story idea involving two female Toa who get transported to another would (they'd both be the Bionicle age equivalent of late teens) one is a Toa of Psionics who is essentially a teen rebel and a free spirit (admittedly I still need to flesh her a little bit more). The other one is a Toa of Lightning unfortunately I really don't have much of a personality but I want the Toa of Lightning's personality to clash with the Toa of Psionic's rebellious spirit. Any ideas?

I've never been a huge fan of the gender-by-element thing, though speaking strategically it does help to have a mostly male cast in a series targeted primarily at younger boys. What might have worked better is certain elements being gender-biased; maybe Fire and Water would stay all-male and all-female respectively, while Earth and Stone leaned male and Ice and Wind leaned female or something. (Potential downside: if Lewa and Kopaka stayed male, it would be odd, whereas if they were female in this iteration, not only would that appeal less to the target audience, the shipping would increase exponentially.) Of course, that does play off the "men are physical-oriented, women are emotionally-mentally-oriented" thing if we go by how the elements are usually thought of, but Bionicle always did play it pretty safe with gender roles. Besides, it's not like there wouldn't be exceptions - as Tekulo said above, even in canon we got the generally calm and peaceful Onua, and later on the boisterous, big-picture Kiina.

Speaking of which, I also enjoy Kiina for breaking away from the typical 'motherly' mold Gali/Nokama/Hahli tended to fit. Instead she was at the end of the day a merc - one with some morals, but a merc. And her being the crazy lady of the village with aspirations of finding something better made her an interesting character - on my blog I compared her to a Doctor Who companion (probably Amy or Donna first and foremost.) So I wrote that story about her and Onua, and though a big part of that story was considering her relationship to Mata Nui, I tried to show that it wasn't that she'd fallen head over heels for him or anything like that, but rather that he'd given her a chance to realize her ambitions.

Peach's idea of the Toa of Lightning being fairly obedient/goody-two-shoes and naive might make for an interesting contrast with what lightning is usually associated with. You would have to make it reasonable, though - a doormat's no fun for anyone to interact with.

*cracks knuckles*

I have been gone waaaay too long...

@Alex Humva- On your point about education- I'm studying teaching at the moment, so I might be able to shed some light on the subject. Generally, the impression I get is that as a teacher, you need to be flexible enough to cater to the needs of your particular group of students. Now, you're obviously going to have a high degree of diversity within your class, but generally, most teachers often find particular interests or strengths that are common within a group, and that's something they can take into account when planning lessons.So, you do generalise, but it should be based on what you know about the students as people, not necessarily just on gender, (or race, ethnicity, culture, etc for that matter). Now, maybe that's harder to do in a high school environment as opposed to primary school (which is what I study), but even then, you should at least be trying to get to know the students and figuring out how to cater to the lot you've got.

As for segregation... generally, I think it's unnecessary, mostly because I think it's healthy for girls and boys to mix, but I can see some of the merits- eg, some all-boys classes with a male teacher providing a strong role model have been shown to produce good results in some of the "rougher" schools- but like I said, I think that it very much depends on the nature of the students, and it wouldn't be right for everyone. Hope that helps- I actually have a workshop about gender tomorrow, so I'll get back to you if I learn anything interesting.

Segregation of boys and girls in schools is an interesting topic - I think at least at an early age, societal norms may very well lead kids to 'self-segregate' during their own time ('girls have cooties' and all that), and it can be difficult to hold the interest of a diverse group, but like you said generalizations get us nowhere. It's probably a better idea to find a common interest amongst the majority of your students and appeal to that than to just split into boys and girls and have Ms. Alice teach the girls and Mr. Bob the boys.

Edited by GSR, Apr 15 2012 - 09:12 PM.

[Peach 00]

There's good reason to cry even if you are a fan- it's just wrong on so many levels:

1. The Hunger Games has a bit of an anti-consumerist theme, thereby making ANY kind of merchandise a ridiculous idea.
2. Personality-wise, Katniss is about as far removed from Barbie as it's possible to get, and I think she'd be pretty peeved off about the existence of such a product.
3. The Hunger Games is about teenagers murdering each other for sport. Barbie is typically aimed at five to nine year old children. I think this doll is more aimed at adult collectors, but still...

On the plus side, Barbie's figure DOES somewhat accurately mimic that of a malnourished young woman whose family struggles to find food.

As for me, I think saying whether I "like' the book or not is... complicated. I think it is a very well written and engaging book, but I think that's different to liking it. It pushed all the right buttons, and left me feeling emotionally ruffled and disgruntled, which, I can only assume, was the point. I can't really say I liked it, but I get the impression that I wasn't meant to like it, and that simply liking it would be missing the point. But, then, so many other people loved it, so now I wonder whether I'm the one missing the point...

Ahh, true. Even if it was right on all levels, it just is not right. =P I don't exactly get what Mattel's expecting from it, it won't be all that much of a money-maker due to the fact the book is oriented for 13-18. The point you made is right because Barbie is basically 5-12. Still, their Grace Kelly Barbies and their Barbie and Ken William and Kate Wedding set will be easier to get money off of than Katniss Everdeen. Then again, they sold Twilight dolls for awhile, no clue how those did, lol. Who knows what Mattel's thinking with this - just doesn't exactly seem practical.

To me, in any book series, the one thing that ruins it for me is that it's overhyped. It just ruins it for me, one because I have a feeling it's not as good as they people are saying it is, and if I read it, I'm probably going to be as annoying as these people are if I'm raving about it. It'd probably be that type of case if I read the book, although the more downside comments that have been made about it make me thing I would be completely bored when I read it.

One of the comments I recall about the book being made were that the author made too many fashion comments. I don't consider that being a bad thing - it says the author has class. Depending on the fashion, that is. But even then, I just don't get the point of the book series. One book series I know is probably twice as good as The Hunger Games, which is called Ranger's Apprentice. It's very popular in Europe, although the books have been in America since the series began. It's an 11 book series, and has ended, although I don't understand why it isn't popular. Probably because it doesn't involve teenagers killing each other.

But to actually get back on topic, I agree with GSR's point gender-oriented elements. Also, Kiina's character I wasn't all that big a fan of - that and the fact her character in The Legend Reborn was...loud, and a little too hyper. That's my opinion of her character, though.

[Tekulo the WindWriter]

The Hunger Games: Not a fan. No particular reason for that other than I haven't read the books. Fans of it can be a bit crazy in my experience, and when they tried to explain the plot to me... "So there was this war against the government and the government won and so there are these districts and to make sure the people don't riot again, the government pits two teens from each district against each other in a bloody battle to the death going 'haha we can kill your children.'"
... it kinda sounds annoying (not to mention kinda... uh, illogical and far-fetched. I'm pretty sure killing off innocent youths would only make people even more angry and prone to riot, but I digress).

Though, I've heard the main actress in the movie had critics calling her fat (which is kinda ridiculous because she's got a pretty normal stature). It bugs me, especially when girls call themselves fat. I've actually dealt with being overweight and let me tell you; calling yourself fat when you're a regular size is offensive. If you have low self-esteem that's your problem, but when you start insulting people who actually do have a problem right to their face, it's beyond annoying. >>

Not every girl does this (thank the spirits), but it is something I've noticed and it's something mostly girls do in my experience (I actually have met a few guys like that. XD Though, I was friends with them and I just joked around generally. It's far more offensive when I don't know the person as well).

[Taka Nuvia]

The Hunger Games: Not a fan. No particular reason for that other than I haven't read the books. Fans of it can be a bit crazy in my experience, and when they tried to explain the plot to me... "So there was this war against the government and the government won and so there are these districts and to make sure the people don't riot again, the government pits two teens from each district against each other in a bloody battle to the death going 'haha we can kill your children.'"
... it kinda sounds annoying (not to mention kinda... uh, illogical and far-fetched. I'm pretty sure killing off innocent youths would only make people even more angry and prone to riot, but I digress).

You know, that's pretty much EXACTLY the same way a friend of mine explained it to me. xD Except for the "haha we can kill your children" part. But apart from that... 99% the same.

Though, I've heard the main actress in the movie had critics calling her fat (which is kinda ridiculous because she's got a pretty normal stature). It bugs me, especially when girls call themselves fat. I've actually dealt with being overweight and let me tell you; calling yourself fat when you're a regular size is offensive. If you have low self-esteem that's your problem, but when you start insulting people who actually do have a problem right to their face, it's beyond annoying. >>

Not every girl does this (thank the spirits), but it is something I've noticed and it's something mostly girls do in my experience (I actually have met a few guys like that. XD Though, I was friends with them and I just joked around generally. It's far more offensive when I don't know the person as well).

Oooh the eternal battle between inner view and outer world...

I totally agree with you, though, partly because I've been there as well. :/

[Ra's al Ghul]

Though, I've heard the main actress in the movie had critics calling her fat (which is kinda ridiculous because she's got a pretty normal stature). It bugs me, especially when girls call themselves fat. I've actually dealt with being overweight and let me tell you; calling yourself fat when you're a regular size is offensive. If you have low self-esteem that's your problem, but when you start insulting people who actually do have a problem right to their face, it's beyond annoying. >>

That kinda stuff breaks my heart. Don't get me wrong, I am by no means a feminist, but society's portrayal of beauty is skewed and, to be redundant, heartbreaking.

[Papa Vinc]

Though, I've heard the main actress in the movie had critics calling her fat (which is kinda ridiculous because she's got a pretty normal stature). It bugs me, especially when girls call themselves fat. I've actually dealt with being overweight and let me tell you; calling yourself fat when you're a regular size is offensive. If you have low self-esteem that's your problem, but when you start insulting people who actually do have a problem right to their face, it's beyond annoying. >>

That kinda stuff breaks my heart. Don't get me wrong, I am by no means a feminist, but society's portrayal of beauty is skewed and, to be redundant, heartbreaking.

You want beauty? I think there's nothing more beautiful to me than a woman able to kick my asterisks.

Bella Swan: How important it is to HAVE A BOYFRIEND (And a daughter who is going to marry your ex, apparently)
Katniss: How important it is to LIVE. And be a mack-mommy and have two-dudes.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

...

The Hunger Games.


~TN726

[Alyska]

On the weight thing- it is considered fashionable- normal even, for a girl to be moping over some minor aspect of her appearance (There's a wonderful scene in the film Mean Girls that beautifully lampoons this). And there's that awful song that goes "You don't know you're beautiful/That's what makes you beautiful"- because high self esteem is just undesirable in a girl. I don't know whether any of you heard the story of the online columnist a few weeks ago that attracted so much backlash because she claimed that attractive people like herself don't have it so good. She got thousands of complaints calling her ugly, narcisstic, and plenty of other words that I can't write here- because HOW DARE she, a woman, think of herself as attractive?

Now, I'd be lying if I said I was 100% happy with my own appearance, but I generally don't feel the need to complain about it. I'd much rather complain about the social trends and institutions that make women (and, sometimes, men) feel this way. Like the fact that I am a perfectly healthy weight, but because I'm quite short with big hips, I find it difficult to buy jeans that fit without having to modify them- thus implying that my body shape is somehow "abnormal" (which it isn't), and that people my shape don't deserve to be catered to. Now I know why Pohatu doesn't wear pants.

So, Tekulo, I wouldn't put the blame entirely on the girls you speak of- they're just doing what's expected of them. When acting "fashionably insecure" starts to trump showing respect for the people around you, however, it's a sign that this is really starting to get out of hand- that people are encouraged to care more about their own appearance than they are about the feelings of other people... and I have seen it too, in my own friends, so I know where you're coming from, but I believe the quote in the above post is surprisingly applicable here, too:

"Don't hate the players, hate the game."

Also, speaking of the Hunger Games, one thing that bothers me is how people tend to overlook the basic premise. Like how my mum was surprised that I felt a bit down after reading it:
"Mum, it's about teenagers being forced to murder each other. Isn't it supposed to be depressing?"
"Oh, I didn't really get that vibe from it. I thought it was more about survival skills."
But, now that I think about it, I guess I did learn some important survival kills from it. like, if I'm ever fighting for my life out in the wilderness, starving to death with people trying to murder me, I should immediately start snogging the nearest boy, and a package of food will magically drop from the sky!

I'm not criticising the story at all- as I said before, it's a good premise and very well written. However, if you're going to enjoy something like that, I think you need to recognise the premise for what it is, and you should be prepared to recognise the horror of the situation. If you just get caught up in the glitz and the action... I think you might be missing the point.

[Tekulo the WindWriter]

Don't get me wrong, I don't normally hold that as a grudge or anything against the people who do that... But, when that topic comes up, the gloves come off with me. I don't care who is to blame; society, the game, whatever. People need to be more mature about it and it's our responsibility to grow up and stop whining like children over pointless things like weight and superficial appearances. So, when anyone starts with "fat talk" I don't care about pointing fingers; I'm going to hate that person's guts and I am going to speak up in protest (which isn't pretty in my experience).

Yes, it's personal and yes, I know people who defend themselves personally is beyond annoying to those who have no self confidence and want to whine about themselves all they want, but that's not going to stop me getting offended. Sure, maybe I won't win the game easily with protest, but this isn't a game; it's real life for crying out loud! The players need to grow up and that's not going to happen if they just continue to complain and whine without anyone telling them otherwise (which is beyond annoying).

Once in my school two actors came in to perform for us, and some girls were gossiping about the female actor.
"One of them's a girl?"
"Yeah, but she's not pretty, so you don't have to be nice to her."

I don't even remember who said this (like I said I don't really hold grudges with this kind of stuff), but those words stick with me to this day just because that attitude is sick, disgusting, backwards, irrelevant, pointless and it goes entirely against everything Marten Luther King Jr stood for; that people shouldn't judge each other based on outward appearances and that others should be judged by the content of their characters. He didn't say "judge by their weight" or "judge by their social standing" or "judge by their abilities." Judge by the content of one's character. Anything less to me is atrocious, stupid, moronic, barbaric, hideous, abominable, putrid, horrid and gruesome. I'm not about to just sit by and let someone call themselves fat when they're normal and not call them out about it because it's personal, because I'm offended, and quite frankly because that person is better than that and they should realize that themselves. Like I've been saying, it's just beyond annoying.

[Taka Nuvia]

... Tekulo, I agree with you completely. On everything.

That thing about the actors scared me. It simply scared me, because I can't understand what makes people think that way. However, it seems to be typical. I mean, I do not fit into the current standards of beauty, either, (No, I'm not saying I'm ugly.) and you know, I get comments a lot, too... Apart from the whole "You wear black so you must be Emo, and THAT means you have to be practising self-harm/you have to be depressed all the time/ etc. etc.)

People always judge others, if we want it or not. And getting to know someone is troublesome, so it's far easier to assume things about them based on their appearance.
Boys call other boys gay because they act a bit different than the majority, the 'norm'. Girls call other girls ugly or fat because they're not the norm... it's always been like that. =/

*end of mini-rant*