20429 replies to this topic

[The Snark Knight]

OOC A few questions:

What is the view on mutants outside of the USA? If they're countries out there more tolerant of them, why can't the mutants just emigrate?

Do the Enforcers have the right to operate outside of areas under legal US jurisdiction? Could they target a mutant that isn't a US citizen?

How does magic work in the Marvel Universe? It seems sort of strange to me.

 

Alright, the answers to these are a bit complex, so bear with me. 

 

The view of mutants outside the US hasn't really been covered much in the comics to my knowledge, so I am mostly offerring answers based on the explanations concocted for this game. There are likely countries that are more tolerable of mutants, but it hasn't as of yet been an issue in the game, because they haven't been traveled to. The reason that mutants can't simply emigrate is likely due to anti-mutant policies. The Enforcers are tasked with registering, capturing or killing unregistered mutants. So any unregistered mutant that tries to leave the country will either be arrested or killed, because both are equally legal. So the only ones even likely to be allowed across the border legally are the registered mutants, and it's possible even then there are restrictions.

 

Yes and no. The Enforcers cannot intervene directly in other countries. They can, much like our real life military, take action against certain targets with approval. Hence why Delts Squad was overseas. SHIELD, on the other hand, is able to attack pretty much anyone they want. They aren't anti-mutant, however.

 

Magic is complicated, and the way it works varies. A lot.

 

IC: Alex

 

The technopath let out a long sigh, closing his eyes for a moment, before reopening them. "You okay, Julia?"

[Constructman: Black Knight]

OOC Two other questions:
What is registering? Is it like in Civil War where each Superhuman/Vigilante had to register with the government so that they could be monitered?

And also, what if a non-registered mutant happened to be part of the government of another country, like say, one of the diplomacy staff working at an embassey, or even the ambassador himself?

IC Knower
"Not again," I said in shock. Turning to face Alyssa, I saw here go into trance mode.

Edited by Constructman, Jan 19 2013 - 05:22 PM.

[The Snark Knight]

OOC: The mutant registration isn't quite the same. In Civil War, super powered heroes had to register so the government could track them. In this case, it's more like census data. You go in, they take your personal information, and note your mutant status. Then you go into a big 'ol database that contains the data on all known mutants in the country.

 

Wouldn't happen. No matter how other countries feel, the US is at this time very anti mutant. So there would not be a mutant ambassador, and any foreign mutants that caused any trouble whatsoever would be deported. If they were lucky.

[Basilisk]

OOC: The mutant registration isn't quite the same. In Civil War, super powered heroes had to register so the government could track them. In this case, it's more like census data. You go in, they take your personal information, and note your mutant status. Then you go into a big 'ol database that contains the data on all known mutants in the country.

 

OOC: And the problem the Mutants have with this is?

 

....It seems pretty reasonable, considering the Mutants can do things that make an Earthquake look like small stuff. 

[The Snark Knight]

OOC: The problem arises when you consider the fact that said mutants are then treated as second class citizens, because employers and the like can ask for said status, and deny employment based on it.

[Basilisk]

OOC: I call that a fair trade off for...people not being killed in the streets. 

[Judge Alex Humva]

OOC
The problem is people are still being killed in the streets because criminal mutants are, well, criminals and don't really give a **** about a census.

[.:Advent Aeternale:.]

OOC: That's part of it. There's also the fact that because it's just short of publicly accessible, Villain types now have far easier access to information about everyone and everything the heroes hold dear. The potential for revenge is devastating.

 

IC: Seeing that the situation was resolved, regardless of the path taken, Spencer shrugged, and moved to watch some television.

Edited by .:Advent Aeternale:., Jan 19 2013 - 05:39 PM.

[Basilisk]

OOC: Suddenly the Enforcers seem very very reasonable. 

[Constructman: Black Knight]

OOC: I know it might be getting annoying but what if the mutant is NATO or UN?

 

IC: Spartan and NPC Hoplites

Passing by the hoplite training facility, Homer said "We're moving out. Threat level only medium but whoever's ready can come." About a dozen of the Hoplites in the training facility quickly fell in line behind him. Reaching the armoury  Spartan quickly suited up. Grabbing a javelin, a xiphos, and a shield off of the wall, Spartan continued to watch the live newscast as the suit folded onto his body. "I never get used to this," he muttered even as he dashed out, his red cape flowing behind his white and bronze ceramic armor.

 

OOC: Any Enforcers want to go take on Venom and Foreshadow?

Edited by Constructman, Jan 19 2013 - 06:21 PM.

[The Snark Knight]

OOC: The odds of that are very, very low. Because even though mutants might be more accepted in other countries, they're still chaotic, and mistrusted by the public at large. A mutant would be hard pressed to get into most military groups, and rising to any high rank is almost impossible.

[Floridian Citrus]

IC: Jesika

 

Jesika continued to skip along towards the Christmas tree, her mouth constantly moving as a never-ending stream of words flowed from her mouth. "Hi I'm Jesika and we're looking for my blue polka dotted ot pink wings so I can have wings like Nathan they're gonna be inside a present and we're gonna find it and they're going to be really pretty wings but not as pretty as Nathan's because his are the prettiest and you're wings are also pretty because they're green and they have leaves and it's like a plant with wings that look really cool almost as if you took a bird and ripped out its feathers and then made it grow leaves and then put them on your back I learned about leaves and how they photo-sink-the-size and can you photo-sink-the-size because that'd be cool because then you could eat the sun and I want leaves on my wings because then I could eat the sun too and..."

 

Jesika's mouth didn't stop moving as she continued to pull the two of them around the Christmas tree, her iron grip almost seeming to get stronger the faster that she moved.  And she didn't once use a comma in her sentence, let alone a period.

 

The scary thing was considering what would happen when she didn't find her wings.

[.:Advent Aeternale:.]

OOC: I do have a question regarding the mistrust thing. And before I ask this, know that I'm not trying to rain on a parade, or cast suspicion. It's pure curiosity, as I'm really enjoying the suddenly communicative vibe the RPG is taking on.

 

One, if mutants are so mistrusted by American society, how do characters such as Dallas manage to retain their fame and popularity? One would think that would be more of an uphill battle if even mutant politicians or other such beings with clout, assuming any even exist, have little to no sway due to public opinion. Wouldn't the X-Men and all of their associates receive worse reception simply for being such staunch mutant rights supporters?

 

And that moves right into my next question, what if the politicians/military personnel in question developed their mutant powers somewhat late, but have managed to keep them in check. Are they simply expelled from whatever position/group that they were once a part of?

 

And a third question, what progress has been made for mutant rights in the timeline of the RPG? Has there truly been no progression on that front?

 

IC: Plopped in front of the television, Spencer was casually flipping through channels (with not much by way of argument from others, as most people were preoccupied with holiday festivities) when he crossed onto the news. Spencer's jaw immediately dropped. "V-V-Venom?!" the arachnid mutant stuttered, immediately recognizing one of the more prominent nemeses of Spencer's own hero and idol, Spider-Man.

 

Venom's appearance caused Spencer's brain to reel with confusion. "Where did he even come from?"

[Basilisk]

OOC: Considering Mutants have been seen murdering people on TV. And then the X-Men were shown to have allied with them...I think that's a no. 

 

Really, if I was in charge of the government, I'd be throwing Black Helicopters at all mutants so fast it wouldn't even be funny. 

Edited by Basilisk, Jan 19 2013 - 07:02 PM.

[The Snark Knight]

OOC: Mutants like Dallas have had the unique combination of looks and popularity. He was present at the saving of Washington, and wasn't seen in the footage of the attack on Weapon X. Further, he naturally tended toward behavior that would lead to such popularity. In short, he was a combination of circumstance and personality that lead to his currents status.

 

He is, to summarize, the exception to the rule. He is IC the only mutant to attain such popularity, and such fame. Stark doesn't count because he is not known to be a mutant. And he keeps it secret because mutations lead to such horrific treatment, criticism, and overall lack of public support. Dallas also hasn't been known to have any real link to the Xmen for quite a while.

 

Military officials who developed late are indeed kicked from their organization. The exception, of course, is SHIELD, which allows mutant agents. I think there's actually a character backstory that deals with this, though I can't find it. Other countries may have different policies, but we haven't seen any of them in-game. Politicians don't lose their position, but they lose most of their popularity, and thus, their effectiveness. They lose their career as effectively as if it had been taken away.

 

As the game has shown, there has been no noticeable progress. The President is largely pro-mutant, but he has not enacted any changes, nor has he been able to.

[Basilisk]

OOC: Honestly, I'm having trouble understanding why I shouldn't be cheering on the Enforcers. Could someone explain it to me? If someone can level a block of a city, I'd be all for deploying giant robots to take him off the streets. 

Edited by Basilisk, Jan 19 2013 - 07:29 PM.

[Constructman: Black Knight]

OOC: human rights. Amnesty International would be raving about the innocents killed in hunting down the guilty. And from what I've seen, the Enforcers seem to go like "Mutant sighted: destroy destroy destroy" and then they proceed to destroy another half a city block to track the mutant down. They even attack SHIELD agents, and I had K nower give Incinerator a call but as soon as the Enforcers learned he was from SHIELD, they hung up. And Logan Canon once said “If you weren't with SHIELD I’d kill you all now, I don’t give a **** about the civilians, I’d be saving lives in the future by bringing you down."

Edited by Constructman, Jan 19 2013 - 07:30 PM.

[Basilisk]

OOC: What about the right to not have someone total your entire building, your block and your store because he felt like it? We don't let people run around with bombs that can total a city block. Why should let mutants do it? Yeah, it sucks for them. But I would think the right of some people to wonder around is outweighed by everyone else's right to not be slaughtered at will. 

 

There's something called the Godzilla Threshold, where something, say a mutant, can cause so much trouble and loss of life that deploying anything against it can be justified. 

 

The Enforcers being kill-happy and incompetent does ruin any support for them, but the point, Mutants are very dangerous and need to be watched or imprisoned for the good of everyone still stands. 

Edited by Basilisk, Jan 19 2013 - 07:43 PM.

[Varren Rehn]

OOC: I hate doing OOC posts.

 

I'd like to point out that the Marvel "Civil war" was fought for almost the same reasons ('cept without the mutant part). If that someone who leveled a block of city on accident, or they were fighting someone with much more evil intent who could, I don't know, level the whole city, I think that would be justified.

 

I'd like to point out, the reason nobody's done anything outside of the Enforcers, is that if a country declared war on Mutants, then the Brotherhood wins. Most, if not all, Mutants would swell the Brotherhoods ranks, and would probably end up with Humankind's destruction. Giant Robots don't do so well against armies of Super-powered beings who are all-too-willing to hunt your species to extinction.

 

Food for thought.

 

The Reason why this hasn't happened (while I'm sure some organizations are all-too-happy to actually have that happen), is because no matter the circumstances, the outcome would be the same. Everyone loses. The Sentinels wouldn't be able to get rid of all the mutants before they would all be taken off-line. Mutants are naturally in every country in the world. If for some reason, a racewar began, the mutants would have the upper hand of being everywhere, already. Any attempt to use any nuclear device would result in governments bombing their own citizens, and resulting in even more trouble.

 

M.A.D. by attacking a race nearly ten time better than you, or Detenté and actually being able to wake up in the morning?

Edited by Varren Rehn, Jan 19 2013 - 07:35 PM.

[Basilisk]

OOC: I'd think a couple of nuclear strikes in the right places would settle the mutant matter quite nicely. The mutants aren't a "better" species. They're weak. Know why? They don't have to work for their powers.  Humanity has to fight for everything it gets. That's what makes a species strong, not flashy powers, but determination. Willpower.

 

In my book at least. 

 

Again, on the nuclear strikes, Godzilla threshold. 

[The Snark Knight]

OOC: human rights. Amnesty International would be raving about the innocents killed in hunting down the guilty. And from what I've seen, the Enforcers seem to go like "Mutant sighted: destroy destroy destroy" and then they proceed to destroy another half a city block to track the mutant down. They even attack SHIELD agents, and I had K nower give Incinerator a call but as soon as the Enforcers learned he was from SHIELD, they hung up. And Logan Canon once said “If you weren't with SHIELD I’d kill you all now, I don’t give a **** about the civilians, I’d be saving lives in the future by bringing you down."

 

Logan's what's called an "extremist".

 

But also, you'll note that due to the way the Enforcers and Sentinels work, any mutant that gains their direct attention has already caused problems. If the Sentinels are brought in, they've already proven to be too hostile for the regular Enforcers to deal with. The regular Enforcers give an option to register or be arrested. And if they resist arrest, they're killed.

 

And as I said, any mutant that garnered the attention of the Sentinels is more dangerous alive than the city block is worth.

[Varren Rehn]

OOC: Again, I hate doing OOC-only posts.

 

You know what that sounds like? The whole "Mutants gotta be imprisoned or watched" thing?

 

Talking like that helped give rise to a man with the second-worst human rights record of all time. That's one of the reasons the UN was founded. Doubt any human rights organization would persecute any race that came from humans. Threat to security or not, in the long run, trying to imprison a race won't help anything. That'll just give them a reason to lash back.

 

EDIT: Also love how we're arguing over a fiction species, in a fictional world, in a game. =3

Edited by Varren Rehn, Jan 19 2013 - 07:44 PM.

[Basilisk]

OOC: I'd note that all other races can't destroy a city. There is a huge world of difference there. 

[The Snark Knight]

OOC: wait

this was an argument

oh

[Constructman: Black Knight]

OOC: We. Need. A. Discussion. Topic. Too. Many. OOC. Only. Posts.

 

IC: Gamemaster

"Okay, what do I do now?"

[Ilyusha Blokfase]

OOC: Auron, that edit is the problem what is being addressed. People act like they do towards mutants in-story because they view them as a seperate species. And you just basically implied that the were a seperate species from normal humans with that edit.

 

Shame on you.

 

IC-Sohail:

 

"I'd recommend you'd have just removed his head," Sohail growled, having watched Malus run off. "In the desert, such men as him can easily spread dissent, fear, and anger through an entire tribe, leading to its ruin-and when the tribe falls apart, then there is very low prospect for survival."

[Constructman: Black Knight]

IC: Hei

"Murder is punishable by law here."

[.:Advent Aeternale:.]

OOC: I'd think a couple of nuclear strikes in the right places would settle the mutant matter quite nicely. The mutants aren't a "better" species. They're weak. Know why? They don't have to work for their powers.  Humanity has to fight for everything it gets. That's what makes a species strong, not flashy powers, but determination. Willpower.

 

In my book at least. 

 

Again, on the nuclear strikes, Godzilla threshold. 

 

That's making the implication that Mutants don't have extraordinary will and determination, which seems pretty inaccurate considering the extreme majority of the mutant populace are simply mutated humans. This would imply that they have many of the same determining factors that make humans a strong species in conjunction with abilities that make them more powerful.

 

And being a fan of the Godzilla Threshold term, there are very few mutants in RP universe who warrant Godzilla Threshold levels of action. Godzilla Threshold implies we're taking up arms against the likes Dark Phoenix, at which point, anything short of the Godzilla Threshold will result in us being out of luck anyway, so why not.

[Basilisk]

OOC: We must have different levels of measurement for it. I consider it to be around the time where a mutant can slaughter a hundred or so people because he wanted to. And these mutants are all over the world.

 

We don't let people run around with rocket launchers, I just don't see why we should let people that dangerous run around willy-nilly. 

[.:Advent Aeternale:.]

OOC: Before I posit a response, I agree that there should be some form of discussion topic for this RPG.

 

Now.

 

It's not like all mutants are allowed to run around willy-nilly, but the ones who have done nothing wrong and/or have powers of a totally ignorable scale have no reason to receive the same levels of attention and persecution as criminals with the ability to achieve mass murder. I mean, it's not like the mutants have a choice in the matter. It's simply how they are. It's biological, not so simple as picking up a weapon of mass destruction, so it shouldn't be treated as such.

 

IC: Adrian sighed as he ran the towel over his lengthy hair for what felt like the thousandth time. As far as Adrian could see, this lone negative was the only bad thing about swimming. Or being wet in general. Drying long amounts of hair was simply too time consuming.

[Dallas Winston]

OOC: guys why don't we just create a massive group PM and talk about this there

 

chaaaaa

 

-Tyler

[Ilyusha Blokfase]

IC-Sohail:

 

"And he could easily be attempting to sow a lack of trust amongst the rest of us, that quite easily lead to murder on its own," Sohail replied, his voice dripping with condescension for one so narrow-minded as Kristy. "Or worse. Do you wish to take the chance that he could lead to the dissolution of the last standing group of so-called 'good' mutants, or would you rather remove him before he had the chance to make it so that the Brotherhood could have their own way with things?"

[Varren Rehn]

OOC: Pardon me, but there are group PMs?

 

o-o

[Ilyusha Blokfase]

OOC: Hey, look, somebody who doesn't read the front page news.

[Lord of Adders Black]

OOC: I'd think a couple of nuclear strikes in the right places would settle the mutant matter quite nicely. The mutants aren't a "better" species. They're weak. Know why? They don't have to work for their powers.  Humanity has to fight for everything it gets. That's what makes a species strong, not flashy powers, but determination. Willpower.

 

In my book at least. 

 

Again, on the nuclear strikes, Godzilla threshold. 

OOC: Except the nuclear option is going to take out a whole load of civilians. Especially if you take the fallout into effect. Not to mention the most active mutant presence is in New York City. You really think anyone is going to even consider nuking NYC? Maybe if every single person there was a mutant I could see them considering it, but only then

Plus, it seems to be in the Marvel universe that stuff like nuclear radiation actually causes X-Men type mutations like laser vision rather than normal type mutations like cancer. So nukes might make the problem worse

 

IC: "Only two?" M'Kus was of the opinion that if if you were going to use two guys in invasion they'd better be pretty good guys, but it seemed Krystal had taken care of them herself, "Scouts of some sort? Or just lunatics on an independent mission?"

 

 

IC: Anton sidled a little closer to Seigfried. He was one of the few people in SHIELD who didn't make the Serb look like a roided up freak. 

 

"So...how do you feel about Christmas? I know Christianity co-opted it, but its still considered Christian. Did the Norse have some version of their own?"

[Varren Rehn]

OOC: (There needs to be a discussion topic)

 

If you feel like explaining this to me over PM Otter, I'd enjoy listening =O

[Ilyusha Blokfase]

OOC: Just look in the news archives. Though basically, all it really is is that a premier member can now make a group PM with up to ten other people-where they can all get together and discuss stuff.

[.:Advent Aeternale:.]

IC: Siegfried smiled warmly and replied "Something like that. While here on earth, I would celebrate Christmas with my mother, so I'm quite familiar with the tradition. In Asgard, however, celebration is not so reserved, nor is it so sparse. There is likely to be a celebration within the Realm Eternal's hallowed halls once every earth week. Asgardians are very celebratory, being as long lived as they are. It ensures that a sense of appreciation is kept for all things, big and small. There are certainly some celebrations centered around the same things as the Christian holiday."

[Lord of Adders Black]

IC: "Any excuse to have some fine food and copious alcohol eh?" Anton grinned, "My kind of people."

[The Phoenix]

IC: Winter

 

"I can see why. You're really powerful." Winter said. "So I guess the sooner we leave the better."