405 replies to this topic

[bonesiii]

Spoiler

I'm theorizing "it" is working again because Velika made it work, enabling him to teleport where needed for the murders and preparations. And these lines and others seem to imply that Gaardus got his teleportation powers from the RS too; that he is able to call on the teleporter. And Velika is too. Since Velika repaired it (in my theory) or switched it on, Gaardus became able to teleport again. So the idea goes anyways.

Is it possible that he could be using the Spirit's Wish gate? It does have some connection with the Red Star.

That makes sense. Except you have to be near it as far as we know. Or maybe it calls on the same system in the same way Gaardus and Velika can, but they might not be actually using the gate.

Edit: Actually, here's a subtheory. Gaardus was altered to give him that ability, apparently, while Velika was not. But what if Velika physically traveled to the gate, and stole whatever machine is inside it that makes it work? If this theory is right, a character in the story could test it by going to the gate and seeing if anything's different, such as Tarduk. Running with the theory that Gaardus and the gate both call on an RS teleporter.

Also, if the teleporter's operation for Gaardus and the Kestora, etc. was off, and is now on, yet Tarduk & co. via the gate used it during that period, perhaps this machine contains a remote switch for it. Perhaps when Tarduk used it, it would switch the teleporter on, use it, then switch it back off. But Velika may have switched it on and left it on now. That would explain a lot.

Edited by bonesiii, Sep 02 2012 - 07:19 PM.

[The Iron Toa]

Spoiler

I'm theorizing "it" is working again because Velika made it work, enabling him to teleport where needed for the murders and preparations. And these lines and others seem to imply that Gaardus got his teleportation powers from the RS too; that he is able to call on the teleporter. And Velika is too. Since Velika repaired it (in my theory) or switched it on, Gaardus became able to teleport again. So the idea goes anyways.

Spoiler

Is it possible that he could be using the Spirit's Wish gate? It does have some connection with the Red Star.

Spoiler

That's just brilliant. Someone must have thought of that before, or Greg must have intended that. I mean, we get a story featuring a teleporting gate linked somehow to the Red Star, but then the story ends before more is explained. Then we start hearing more about the Red Star, including that it's linked to Gaardus's teleportation ability and recently started working again, plus Velika has managed to cover great distances very quickly. I know it's doubtful we'll see the serials ended, but if this is just a coincidence, I'll be disappointed.

[Makuta_of_Oz]

Spoiler

I wonder if Velika was the one who modified the Blade Burrowers.

[Toa Smoke Monster]

Spoiler

I wonder if Velika was the one who modified the Blade Burrowers.

Spoiler

He could've done that. BS01 says that the Great Beings tampered them though, not just one of them. And he may not of had the power to tamper with them while he was inhabiting the Matoran's body. But that would be just my guess.

Anyway, I have a question I wanted to ask. Is the Matoran that Velika is currently inhabiting still alive? Like, if Velika left the Matoran body, would the Matoran had originally had the body be dead, or would he return to be whoever he was before Velika began inhabiting him?

[Anti Nui]

Spoiler

I wonder if Velika was the one who modified the Blade Burrowers.

Spoiler

He could've done that. BS01 says that the Great Beings tampered them though, not just one of them. And he may not of had the power to tamper with them while he was inhabiting the Matoran's body. But that would be just my guess.

Anyway, I have a question I wanted to ask. Is the Matoran that Velika is currently inhabiting still alive? Like, if Velika left the Matoran body, would the Matoran had originally had the body be dead, or would he return to be whoever he was before Velika began inhabiting him?

Spoiler

I believe Greg said that the Matoran body Velika inhabited was never "alive" (as in, had a identity of its own) to begin with. Velika WAS the Matoran.

[bonesiii]

Spoiler

I believe Greg said that the Matoran body Velika inhabited was never "alive" (as in, had a identity of its own) to begin with. Velika WAS the Matoran.

Yes, he said that at whatever point the being who it was was made, the GB's consciousness became its mind. That does, though, still leave unanswered the question of what would happen.

Three main options I see.

One, the Matoran just dies.

Two, the Matoran lives on but with a blank mind. He would be much like someone who had a total mindwipe, like the Metruans when they went to Mata Nui.

Three, Velika has a stasis system for his original body (so one theory goes), so he switches which body is active and has his consciousness, and which one is blankminded and in stasis. So he could switch back and forth at will. I'd lean towards this, since it does seem likely he put his original body in stasis. Or some equivalent which could also have a back-and-forth option.

Then there's two subtheories of the third one; if he leaves behind a stasis body, that it's stored somewhere on Spherus Magna, or somewhere in the MU. I lean towards SM but no real idea why.

[The Iron Toa]

Well, SM is a lot bigger, and the body of a Great Being... well, it would attract attention anywhere, but I think more in the MU.

[Chro]

Spoiler

Well, I'm a bit late to the party on this, but I can't say I didn't expect it... that said it is nice to know that Greg is in contact with Erebus, so yay!

I wonder if Velika was the one who modified the Blade Burrowers.

Hmm. Interesting theory.

[Paleo]

Spoiler

I believe Greg said that the Matoran body Velika inhabited was never "alive" (as in, had a identity of its own) to begin with. Velika WAS the Matoran.

Yes, he said that at whatever point the being who it was was made, the GB's consciousness became its mind. That does, though, still leave unanswered the question of what would happen.

Three main options I see.

One, the Matoran just dies.

Two, the Matoran lives on but with a blank mind. He would be much like someone who had a total mindwipe, like the Metruans when they went to Mata Nui.

Three, Velika has a stasis system for his original body (so one theory goes), so he switches which body is active and has his consciousness, and which one is blankminded and in stasis. So he could switch back and forth at will. I'd lean towards this, since it does seem likely he put his original body in stasis. Or some equivalent which could also have a back-and-forth option.

Then there's two subtheories of the third one; if he leaves behind a stasis body, that it's stored somewhere on Spherus Magna, or somewhere in the MU. I lean towards SM but no real idea why.

Spoiler

He could also just kept the Matoran body, possibly rebuilding it.

[Dorek]

Spoiler

I think we're focusing a bit too much on what happened to the original body. The original explanation itself wasn't even that concrete:

When the Great Beings made Mata Nui ... one of them wanted to see, to know, exactly how their creation would function. So, without the knowledge of the others, he ... I guess the best word is "transferred" his spirit, his intellect, into one of the bio-mechanical beings they had made to inhabit the Great Spirit.

Obviously Orde couldn't explain it properly himself, so there might be no corporeal body as we understand it at all. As for the "original" Matoran, there never was one. It was just a robot at the point that Velika became the Matoran.

(this all would have been so much easier if Greg had just said "transformed into a Matoran form", but I digress...)

[bonesiii]

Spoiler

Obviously Orde couldn't explain it properly himself, so there might be no corporeal body as we understand it at all.

I did suggest that earlier. I was just responding to the question of what would happen if he left the Matoran form, under the theory that he left behind a body. Obviously there are many more alternatives. Still, the wording does strongly imply he left his body in stasis somewhere.

For the record, that Blade Burrower hidden GB theory has been floated in S&T before. It appears to be disproved since the plural GBs were said to do that, and he went there without their knowing, but we can't be sure that wording is precise. I lean against it though for that reason.


BTW, in a review topic of a fanfic, the question came up whether Matoran start their lives with any knowledge programmed into their brain, and I said it appears that they do get basic language and perhaps some others downloaded. Perhaps the building process has four main steps; build/grow the empty brain (we don't know which), download basics into the brain (plus perhaps a randomizer for personality differences), build the rest of the body including growing the organics, and finally start the heart (making them living). Not necessarily all in that order.

If so, then this would help explain how Velika enters the Matoran without it ever being "someone else." It's already known he could store himself as software in Mata Nui's systems, so he overrides the randomizer and enters while language and other basics are going in. Temporarily he would be 'dead' in that state (mind unable to process at all), but then step four starts the heart and he -- the Matoran -- begins that life. If that helps clear that up.

Obviously this would be easier to explain if it's just the GB's consciousness, not anything like a ghostly form, that is stored, just like software, which best fits the idea that it was transferred out of his original GB body. But it's possible of course that the body was turned ghostly, and followed along with his consciousness as software, and is attached to Velika still.

[Dark Hunter Ziy]

Oh my flipping Great Being.

Spoiler

Velika?!? I didn't see that coming.
I'm still anxious to see how the rest of the story pans out with this revelation.

Edited by Dark Hunter Ziy, Sep 03 2012 - 07:18 PM.

[fishers64]

Spoiler

I wonder if Velika was the one who modified the Blade Burrowers.

No, this one has been disproven.

Basically, it was confirmed that the GBs who put the Ignika where it was modified the Blade Burrowers. Further, modifying living beings is inconsistent with Velika anyway - we've never seen him do that. See below...

So here's a theory:

This is about Velika's motive for the murders. I see two key evidences; first, that he did something without or against the other GBs' will in going into hiding in the MU, second, the "delicious" line. What if he had major disagreements about how to design the MU from the beginning, and now that the mission is accomplished, he feels free to act on those disagreements? Spending so much time waiting for that might indeed be delicious to someone like that, and become an obsession that might override their caring about the beings being fully sapient.

With Tren Krom, perhaps he originally wanted him destroyed after his usefulness was up, rather than merely trapped. Now that his final usefulness is over, Velika would feel free to end him.

With Karzahni, perhaps he originally suspected or knew he was a bad repairer and disagreed with giving him that job. Or as others have pointed out he might have realized that only when he was sent to be repaired himself, and kills Karzahni not so much out of personal revenge but out of a desire to undo that mistake.

With the fortress beings, perhaps he disagreed with giving anybody in the MU great power, but wanted them all to be powerless like Matoran, using only machines in the MU, inventions, or tools with powers to accomplish whatever was needed. This would explain both why he mentions the beings of power in there, and why he chose to become a Matoran in the first place. It may also fit with his giving out information on how to shut down Toa power. And possibly he also let Marendar loose for that reason, though that might just have been a coincidence.

Thoughts?

Along with that, perhaps Velika believes that using organic or partially organic beings to solve problems is bad? Everything we've seen him use is a machine, whether it be the Red Star teleporter, Marendar, or the Toa turn-off machine, or the bomb he's using to take down the fortress. Maybe he went in there to gather data to prove to the GBs that machines work better, and believes that killing these beings which the GBs have created as an act of mercy.

On the other hand, perhaps Velika wants to show the other GBs that their organic method of fixing SM just caused more problems, and he figures that killing off the beings that have the most potential to cause problems will get him a hero's welcome when he gets back to the others.

The belief that machines are the best way to solve problems would be reinforced, not attacked, by the MU beings becoming sapient. Now they have more (powerful) sapient beings running around, just like the Element Lords, and he knows how well that worked out.

Except for the Battera, but maybe he thought that they were under-powered or there wasn't enough of them.

He said they were going to be tasty... Maybe he's absorbing the power of all the powerful beings to boost his own power, and in the process, it kills them. That would explain a lot.

There's little question that Velika needs energy. Transferring a consciousness from one place to another would require it, so it's possible that he's amassing energy to make the jump. Or to travel to where the GBs are. Or both. So absorption of energy would make sense. Of course, using a bomb to blow up the insane GB fortress is slightly off of that.

Although having an energy absorption device to absorb energy from the robot upon shutdown makes sense. It doesn't explain TK and Karz very well, because of how unusual they are.

EDIT: Woah, something just occurred to me: Velika wears a Mask of Mind Control, but since he's not a Matoran, perhaps he actually has the mental capacity to use it. That would make a lot of sense considering his desire to observe the other MU citizens in secret. If anyone started to question who he really was, he could simply direct them to "look the other way" on the matter.

It's not just a matter of mental capacity - the mask has to have a certain amount of energy to have an effect. If a Toa donned a Matoran mask, it wouldn't give him any power at all, regardless.

BS01 said it was mental capacity, so I went with that. If it isn't, then perhaps his mask simply isn't a Matoran mask.

FTR, I have a quote from the Metru Nui Official Guide:

Power levels 1-6 are made into Matoran masks, because the power leeches away in the mask-making process.

So if Velika actually had a Matoran mask, then it wouldn't have any power.

I also don't think that Velika had mental capacities above and beyond a normal Matoran, just knowledge that no normal Matoran would have. I find it unlikely that you can put a human consciousness into a bird brain, since there just isn't enough brain space (something will be lost). You can't put more data into a computer than it's memory and hard drive can hold. That could mean, possibly, that Matoran had the same mental capacity as a GB to begin with.

Or maybe Velika lost something, and he wants his revenge for his loss. Kinda like Vezok.

And @ the RS teleporter/gate thing:

Spoiler

I'm going to lean against the whole thing being linked, because if the Spirit's Wish gate was directly linked to the teleporter in the Red Star, then the gate would not work if the Red Star was not present, which it pretty much was not when Tarduk used it. However, it might be within Velika's purview to modify it to take him to the the Red Star, however.

And we don't know if the Red Star is involved here. Velika just might have stole some Karda Nui vechicles and equipped them with new weapons.

Edited by fishers64, Sep 07 2012 - 11:41 PM.

[Lewa Krom]

Spoiler

The slight irony of Velika being the one who killed Karzahni is rather funny in my opinion.

However, while I enjoy learning more, I kinda wish these things weren't released this way. I'd rather wait six more months for a chapter than have Greg reveal it in PM.

[Magnetic Vorahk]

Hey Erebus. Next time you talk with Greg, can you talk to him about when and if the next chapters are coming out?

Greg revealing the identities of the GB and the killer doesn't provide closure IMO, because there are so many unresolved story bits out there, like:

The Red Star, why it tells the future, why there are Kestora living in it, why Mavrah is there (and not dead)
The Toa Mahri and the Golden Fusion
The identity/nature of the green cloud in the Golden Fusion
Voporak and the Vahi
Current society of Spherus Magna, with the planet's reconciliation and integration of the nanotech
Greg's plans for the Barraki, Takadox, The Shadowed One, and Alternate Teridax

Edited by A10, Sep 05 2012 - 08:39 PM.

[Lielac]

The Red Star, why it tells the future

Now that is an annoying little plot hole. In Metru Nui the Ko-Matoran read the stars to find what Mata Nui had planned for the proper operation of his innards, but on the island of Mata Nui the stars are like Earth's and constellations are sheer dumb luck, so how?

My opinion on how to patch it, because spreading my headcanon is fun? Nixie can see the future, and the prophesies she sees are just visions connected with a future location of the Red Star. It's not that the Red Star being there means the thing will happen, it's that the Red Star will be there when the thing happens. It's a way to pin her visions to a when because she can chart where it will be, and maybe she has enough control over what she sees to get a matching constellation out of her crosswired dreams as well as flashes of the future.

I'll add another unresolved plot thread to the pile, too: Marendar and the EX-TER-MI-NATE ALL TO-A thing.

Edited by Lielac, Sep 06 2012 - 09:47 AM.

[bonesiii]

Now that is an annoying little plot hole. In Metru Nui the Ko-Matoran read the stars to find what Mata Nui had planned for the proper operation of his innards, but on the island of Mata Nui the stars are like Earth's and constellations are sheer dumb luck, so how?

How the Matoran read it is not a mystery; it moves to certain places to form altered constellations. It works with what it's got. What's a mystery is why it moves that way.

Which the obvious theory is that the Kestora or something in its design somehow know important destinies and move it so.

My opinion on how to patch it, because spreading my headcanon is fun? Nixie can see the future, and the prophesies she sees are just visions connected with a future location of the Red Star. It's not that the Red Star being there means the thing will happen, it's that the Red Star will be there when the thing happens. It's a way to pin her visions to a when because she can chart where it will be, and maybe she has enough control over what she sees to get a matching constellation out of her crosswired dreams as well as flashes of the future.

There's no hole to patch, though, because Bionicle has programmed destinies, which influence events to work towards fulfillment. The RS merely needs to read these programs to know what destinies to symbolize. Also, its motion is not a simple orbit; it would move up and down and around, etc. and then hover in place (probably a geosynchronous orbit).

[Flex Fiction]

Spoiler

Hmm so Velika is the GB and the murderer... interesting. One of the wiki now says that he used Lesovik's air sword to kill knock Gaardus out of the tree or whatever. What I want to know is why Lesovikk would of willingly parted with his Toa-tool? Did Velika somehow kill him? Overpower him? Mind control him? etc. Also with serial has Velika planting the bomb on the base? I barely remember that... Need to freshen up and re-read that one. And what is this Spirit Wish Gate people are mentioning? It doesn't ring any bells for me at all. It sounds like the RP teleporter can give beings the power to teleport, like it somehow did with Gaardus, and possibly Velika now. Velika seemed good when he was helping the Toa Inika on Voya Nui, was that all a front? Because he seems to be much more devious now... even a little insane how he says it will be delicious when he kills his targets.

[The Iron Toa]

The Spirit's Wish Gate is from the web serial Riddle of the Great Beings.

[KlakWest]

I have updated the first post with new relevant information concerning Velika:

Spoiler

1. The disguised Great Being was already named Velika before he inhabited the Matoran body. This brings the total number of currently known Great Beings to 3 (Angonce and Heremus)
2. Velika is indeed the killer of Tren Krom and Karzahni.

Enjoy!

Spoiler

I sort of expected the murderer part (I had my speculative suspicions ), but I definitely didn't expect the "That's his real name" part. O.o

Glad to see more awesome updates.

[King James]

Spoiler

So Velika IS the killer! Now all we need is a new chapter.

[Pachacamac]

Huh...I must say, that is probably the last individual I would have expected to be the Great Being.

[Magnetic Vorahk]

Is there going to be another update on this topic?

[Makuta_of_Oz]

Is there going to be another update on this topic?

Impossible to say. We don't know how busy Greg is, or how much contact he has with Erebus.

[The Mad Great Being]

Unfortunately, being an insane Great Being, I cannot figure out spoiler tags. Can the moderator of his great courtesy insert them, if he deems it needful?

Spoiler

Concerning He Who is Being Discussed, I would say that passing through Karzahni would not affect his sanity or mind at all. A mind of that order does not go daft quite that easily. In fact, I would hazard that Karzahni's decline occurred after Our Topic left. Before, he was so powerful he could invert the laws of nature, producing a sort of alternate version of physics. By the time the Matoran came, he only had mind-scanning powers plus control of Manas. Not to mention being already a bit deranged. My guess is that the Bad Great Being did it to him in revenge for bad rebuilding.
Further, a mind wipe would not work on a Great Being. If a Great Being is greater than Mata Nui in mental strength, then he would not be vulnerable unless he decided to be. The brain he inhabited was fully under his Great Being control, even if his body was built under the laws of Mata Nui universe and hence vulnerable to mind-wipes. His mind would have seen the mind-wipe as it acted, quietly detached his proper consciousness from the brain (like a trance), or maybe astrally projected himself till it was over. Then he would quietly repair any interior damage and just talk and act like the wipe worked. And for the record mind and brain are not interchangeable, whether said brain is a computer or not. It's like talking about a ghost in a machine; ghost is seldom harmed by change in machine.

Edited by bonesiii, Sep 12 2012 - 12:22 PM.

[bonesiii]

Spoiler

Concerning He Who is Being Discussed, I would say that passing through Karzahni would not affect his sanity or mind at all. A mind of that order does not go daft quite that easily. In fact, I would hazard that Karzahni's decline occurred after Our Topic left. Before, he was so powerful he could invert the laws of nature, producing a sort of alternate version of physics. By the time the Matoran came, he only had mind-scanning powers plus control of Manas. Not to mention being already a bit deranged. My guess is that the Bad Great Being did it to him in revenge for bad rebuilding.

Do we know he lost that ability? Or was he simply satisfied with the wacky physics he'd already produced? Actually, do we even know that was his doing?

Further, a mind wipe would not work on a Great Being.

Actually, Greg revealed that it would.

If a Great Being is greater than Mata Nui in mental strength, then he would not be vulnerable unless he decided to be. The brain he inhabited was fully under his Great Being control, even if his body was built under the laws of Mata Nui universe and hence vulnerable to mind-wipes. His mind would have seen the mind-wipe as it acted, quietly detached his proper consciousness from the brain (like a trance), or maybe astrally projected himself till it was over.

The fact that it's confirmed he would have been mindwiped shows that he has no special astral powers or whatever; it's just his consciousness in the Matoran's brain.

I do theorize that with the right spoken commands he can disable any power (though all we know of for sure is disabling elemental powers), but as I showed earlier, the idea that he could get out of this mindwipe safely is utterly debunked. It was part of the stasis power, and we've only seen on/off switches. So he would be locked in the pod, unable to get out, and not in stasis -- he would quickly suffocate. Or, he could single himself out by refusing to get in the pod, which is exactly the opposite of blending in -- and would probably bring powerful forces against him as they realized he was more than he seemed, until something worked and took him out.

Therefore, if he was Kapura or any other Metruan he could not plausibly have avoided the mindwipe. Let's also note that the shrinking to "Tohunga" form was another side effect so if he did avoid the pod and somehow avoid attention and stow aboard an airship to Mata Nui, he would still look like a Metruan. (But realistically Makuta would not let him get that far.)

Then he would quietly repair any interior damage and just talk and act like the wipe worked. And for the record mind and brain are not interchangeable, whether said brain is a computer or not. It's like talking about a ghost in a machine; ghost is seldom harmed by change in machine.

We have no evidence he is like a ghost inhabiting the brain; he is the Matoran's mind; there's no suppressed Matoran mind he's overriding. Really, taking some ghostly form like that would be very risky as well, as there are various ways to detect things like that. A Rode or Elda user for example. If Velika was like that, Axonn or Hahli might notice. If he was Kapura, Hahli might notice during 2008. No, he is stored in the brain the same way a normal Matoran's consciousness is. Therefore whatever happens to the brain, barring a plausible switch-off-power option, happens to him.

Edited by bonesiii, Sep 12 2012 - 12:45 PM.

[Nick Silverpen]

just curious, but when is the next podcast that this new info will be on?

[Dorek]

Wouldn't you like to know!

Should be pretty soon. We're antsy enough to release this info as it is.

[Magnetic Vorahk]

Do we even know there's going to be one?

[The Mad Great Being]

It is, of course, possible Karz had those powers--seriously, who else would make the land that way? and we know he was the one who made the seats that turn seaters into stone. However if he was slowly going crazy, he might have forgotten how to use them.

Since it has been confirmed that a G. B. would be vulnerable to mind wipes, I would have to say that they would not work on his TRUE memories and qualities; these would merely be forced dormant or latent in him like suppressed memories in us; he would also retain any Great Being powers that he could utilize without the use of his body. In the same way if there was a G. B. power that the G.B. needed his body to use--his proper body, that is--it would lie dormant until he got back said body.

Edited by bonesiii, Sep 13 2012 - 11:32 AM.
Uh, we can't discuss religious details here. Please keep the conversation about the fiction. -bones

[Magnetic Vorahk]

Do we know for certain that there is going to be a new chapter?

[Ice the Great]

Do we know for certain that there is going to be a new chapter?

Eventually. Just a matter of time. Still, I wish they'd drop HF and bring our series back.

[Magnetic Vorahk]

Do we know for certain that there is going to be a new chapter?

Eventually. Just a matter of time. Still, I wish they'd drop HF and bring our series back.

Yeah, really. But do we know for a fact that there will be one, or is it just speculation?

[bonesiii]

We do not know if there will be more story or not. It's certainly reasonable to think that eventually Greg will find time and have interest in finishing the ongoing serials, but only time will tell. My advice is to "hope for the best, prepare for the worst."

[darkslizer]

Good. I had a feeling it would be him. He always needed a bigger appearence after the whole riddle-speak thing. So, if he had gotten enslaved by the Piraka, would he have just un-enslaved himself and burst into his true form in some sort of godly explosion? I would totally pay to see that.

[Chro]

Oh, uh... do we still have to talk in spoilerspeak?

Good. I had a feeling it would be him. He always needed a bigger appearence after the whole riddle-speak thing. So, if he had gotten enslaved by the Piraka, would he have just un-enslaved himself and burst into his true form in some sort of godly explosion? I would totally pay to see that.

That... would be awesome. Although it would totally blow his cover. XD

[bonesiii]

Oh, uh... do we still have to talk in spoilerspeak?

Nice timing on that question -- I was literally just coming here to announce that spoiler tags are no longer needed.

[Toa Of Virtues]

I wonder what his "true form" is? I know that they prefer to keep their true form hidden and leave it up to imagination, but I wonder... Also, I wonder if he understands how sentient his creations are now, and looks at them more than just tools that can think. Seeing how he killed thoes two so quickly, probably not.

[Makuta_of_Oz]

I imagine his "true form" would be lying limp in some highly-secure chamber, if he transferred his spirit like Orde said.

[Toa Of Virtues]

Really? You would think a Great Being would want to look after their body. I see them as shapeshifters, and maybe never having one true form. But either way, I would assume that they are 100% organic, like Tren Krom. It may be possible that their true forms look like humans.