15 replies to this topic

[Constructman: Black Knight]

In MoL, when Takutanuva is opening the door to metru ui, after reviving Jaller, he loses his strength and gets crushed flatter than a fireflyer. Teridax's antidermis made it out alive, but Takanuva got disintegrated with only his mask making it out undamaged (This is proven by the piraka not finding Takanuva's body.) Then Vakama puts the mask in some sort of beam of light and Takanuva just rematerializes. How did that happen?

[XyzTheDay!]

I generally lean more towards the novelization's depiction of the event wherein Takutanuva was forced to defuse due to the strain put on him by holding the gate open; when it crashed, Teridax's armor was demolished (though his Antidermis managed to leak out) and Takanuva's body split from the fusion in the milliseconds before their body was completely crushed.

Edited by XyzTheDay!, Sep 20 2012 - 09:48 PM.

[Ballom]

Kanohi store some general data, if you will, on their user that lasts a short time after removal (or death). This was what allowed Jaller to properly be recreated from only his mask by Takutanuva, and it helped Takanuva in the same situation as well after he was crushed by the gate. I believe the energy forming his body was provided by the strong energies within the Avohkii, and his mind came from the copy in the mask.

~B~

[bonesiii]

To be clear, the 'canon' showed two conflicting explanations. The Kanohi revival thing (with some kind of machine in the ground of the UDD symbol) just like with Jaller. Or two, the "Takanuva separated" and Newtonian Makuta goes one way the Toa goes the other way explanation so that the door falls between them rather than on them, killing neither (then falling apart into rubble they can climb over).

It isn't really known which is canonically correct.

[TNT-Vezon with an Olmak]

I should think the novel one would be correct since Greg wrote it and there's no artistic license stuff going on.

Edited by TNT-DJ Vezon, Sep 21 2012 - 02:30 PM.

[~The 1st Shadow~]

I was always confused by that, as well. So, I checked Taka's BS01 page, and it states that the novelization version is what happened; that the strain was too much for the fusion, and they split at the last second, with Taka being smaller and more agile than the huge Makuta and got out of the way of the door in time, leaving Terry behind to get flattened. Personally, I find that more likely, as it also explains why the Piraka didn't find any gold armor and white body parts among Terry's armor.

[XyzTheDay!]

I was always confused by that, as well. So, I checked Taka's BS01 page, and it states that the novelization version is what happened; that the strain was too much for the fusion, and they split at the last second, with Taka being smaller and more agile than the huge Makuta and got out of the way of the door in time, leaving Terry behind to get flattened. Personally, I find that more likely, as it also explains why the Piraka didn't find any gold armor and white body parts among Terry's armor.

And yet Takutanuva's page lists the movie ending.

But in cases like these, I generally go with novels > movies, since Greg has often cited artistic license (as DJ Vezon pointed out) as the reason for canon contradictions (as in the "Aqua Magna fragment vs Bota Magna" dispute during the Battle of Bara Magna). Though to be fair, the MoL novel was a Hapka work, which are generally considered non-canon.

[~The 1st Shadow~]

And yet Takutanuva's page lists the movie ending.

Does it really?
*checks*
By jove, you're right, it does! Hm. Well, the description on Taka's page just seems more likely. Some carving in the floor glows and restores Takanuva?
Speaking of which, did anyone else notice that in that very same scene of the movie, just before Takanuva's body is regenerated, it shows Takua's form (very briefly) before being replaced by his Toa self? Probably of no importance, but it still seemed out of place.

[TNT-Vezon with an Olmak]

I did, I thought it was to show the transformation again. Or to symbolize that even though he is a toa, he is still the Takua everyone loves.

[~The 1st Shadow~]

I did, I thought it was to show the transformation again. Or to symbolize that even though he is a toa, he is still the Takua everyone loves.

Yeah, the second one is kinda what I was thinking.

[bonesiii]

Though to be fair, the MoL novel was a Hapka work, which are generally considered non-canon.

Semi-canon. NOT non-canon. Canon unless contradicted in a more canon source, much like MNOG.

Generally when it comes to movies, the movie portrayal is the most canon, unless Greg confirms it not to be. In this case, we simply do not know either way which is canon. It is not that books are placed above movies. It's that on some details where it's confirmed so, a part of the movie is artistic license, and if there is an alternate book portrayal the book is canon on it (if written by Greg).

So what it comes down to is that Greg would have to pick one of the two portrayals for us to know which is accurate, and if he picks the movie one to know whether that was a Reviver or a teleporter. I get the vibe that he does not consider Takanuva to have been revived. The story makes reference to Jaller dying and being revived, but as far as I know, never to Takanuva.

However, it still may be a teleporter.

I suspect Hapka's portrayal in this case may be correct, though, because the movie didn't show the door turning to rubble, but that was confirmed to have happened in 2006 because the Piraka found the antidermis among the rubble of the door. But we don't know for sure.

[XyzTheDay!]

Generally when it comes to movies, the movie portrayal is the most canon, unless Greg confirms it not to be. In this case, we simply do not know either way which is canon. It is not that books are placed above movies. It's that on some details where it's confirmed so, a part of the movie is artistic license, and if there is an alternate book portrayal the book is canon on it (if written by Greg).

So what it comes down to is that Greg would have to pick one of the two portrayals for us to know which is accurate, and if he picks the movie one to know whether that was a Reviver or a teleporter. I get the vibe that he does not consider Takanuva to have been revived. The story makes reference to Jaller dying and being revived, but as far as I know, never to Takanuva.

It just so happens that I dug up an old Greg quote on the subject while I was looking through the archives:

1. Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I was asking how the end of MoL really happened, did he die and get revived by symbols like the movie or did he get away in time like in the book.

1) I consider the movie to be more canon, because the book is based on an earlier version of the movie script than what was filmed.

[bonesiii]

I see. So that confirms both that the movie portrayal is correct, and that what it portrayed was a revival.

So that makes four total revivals prior to the Red Star reveal right? Or am I missing any? Jaller, Takanuva, Matoro 777, and Mata Nui. And Hydraxon is similar to a revival.

[Nick Silverpen]

I always thought that Matoro on the staircase was just him being cloaked by an invisibility device the Great beings installed, or some illusion just to show that a person going there would die, but not really needed to. There might be something in the old forums about it.

As far as Takanuva goes, if a Makuta can stir his essence in a Zamor or a robot (Exo-toa etc) why can't a Toa do otherwise?

[TNT-Vezon with an Olmak]

I always thought that Matoro on the staircase was just him being cloaked by an invisibility device the Great beings installed, or some illusion just to show that a person going there would die, but not really needed to. There might be something in the old forums about it.

As far as Takanuva goes, if a Makuta can stir his essence in a Zamor or a robot (Exo-toa etc) why can't a Toa do otherwise?

Because a toa isn't made of antidermis.

[bonesiii]

I always thought that Matoro on the staircase was just him being cloaked by an invisibility device the Great beings installed, or some illusion just to show that a person going there would die, but not really needed to. There might be something in the old forums about it.

Well, I re-read this part the other day, and the only way such a thing is possible is if the Great Being who recorded the system that spoke to them actually lied. He clearly confirms the person sacrificed was to die. And Matoro would have to be mentally fooled himself. I could type it up later if you wish.

Of course, we have no way of knowing Great Beings don't believe in lying, but the bottom line is that right now the only canon answer we have is that yes, he died and was revived. I do agree this is worth checking the old S&T for, but until we hear something to contradict the portrayal in the book, the by-far most likely answer is he died & was revived. We've seen confirmed death & revival before this point with Jaller, and GBs would certainly be capable of making a machine to do that, so there's really no reason for them to lie about it.

This is of course even more certain (that they have the ability to design such a device) now with the news that yes, Takanuva died, and about the Red Star.