8 replies to this topic

[~Legoman~]

So I've been practicing my writing by rewriting the main Bionicle story with some differences, depending on what I feel works. Thinking about how I am going to handle some things, I've run into questions that some of you may or may not be able to help with. Rather than make a bunch of topics over time, I thought of as many as I could and compiled them all at once.

1. I'm assuming the Turaga hid the Great Kanohi on Mata Nui, so why didn't Makuta just destroy the masks? The masks were unnecessary to awaken Mata Nui, and there was no need to give the Toa more power. Maybe it amused him to let the Toa search for a tiny bit more power knowing it would not help them in the long run? Pretty minor question with no real effect, I'm just curious.

Exo-Toa
2. What was the purpose of the Exo-Toa in the Bahrag lair? My personal theory is that they were supposed to protect the Bahrag while they were asleep, but I have no evidence.
3. Why would Exo-Toa prevent the use of elemental powers?
4. Why did the Exo-Toa in the Bahrag lair attack the Bohrok-Kal? Were they operating on the goals of the Toa Mata as the last people who used them?

A lot of the Bohrok Kal saga didn't make sense so I'll ignore it for now.

Suva
5. How did Tahu's Nuva symbol survive the destruction of the Suva? Did some quick-thinking guard grab it?
6. I assume the Suvas did not always exist on Mata Nui and the Turaga made them based on some prior knowledge?
7. The Suvas on Mata Nui seemed to be attached to the ground, so I assume the Toa/Turaga simply carried the individual masks and Nuva symbols down to Metru Nui?
8. Could multiple Toa use the same Suva?
9. Why didn't Lhikan use the Suva and abundance of masks in the Great Temple?

10. How did travel between Mata Nui and Metru Nui work? I never understood this. The Toa Metru were able to get to Mata Nui by boat, yet Mata Nui is directly above Metru Nui. I assume the airships were able to fly through some cave systems in Mata Nui Robot's face to come out on the surface, but I never understood how they were able to sail upward.

11. How did Vakama know the teleportation disk he launched at a fleeing Nuhrii would bring him closer and not send him further away?

12. What was the point of the Morbuzahk? I think I read on BSO1 it was supposed to drive all Matoran to the Coliseum where they would be encapsulated, but disguised as Dume, Teridax could just call an assembly to bring them all together, which is what he ended up doing, anyway.

13. Why didn't Makuta kill the Toa Metru? As far as I can tell, if all of the Matoran were encapsulated and the Metru dead, his plan would work just fine, and I don't think he should have had any trouble dispatching six inexperienced Toa. Instead he played a game of cross the street without getting hit by a car and got himself imprisoned.

14. When Avak trapped Kopaka in his mental prison, why didn't Kopaka attack Avak directly instead of focusing on the cage?

15. Are the powers listed for Axonn and Brutaka the full extent of their abilities, or is it unknown exactly how much they can do? Again, just curiosity.

16. I may have overlooked this while reading the books, but why did Makuta send the Piraka to Voya Nui? Was it just to get himself into a position where he could directly affect event when things weren't going exactly how he wanted them to?

Some Bigger questions:
16. How exactly did the Matoran's work in Metru Nui keep Mata Nui alive? They provided resources like tools, but they didn't seem to ever do anything that directly affected the Robot besides liquid protodermis purification and solid/molten protodermis reclamation. Because seriously, Po-Matoran carvers contributed absolutely nothing, as far as I can tell.

18. What was the purpose of any species other than Makuta, Matoran, and Rahi? Not including some one-offs like Karzahni, Artahka, Tren Krom, and some of the Hand of Artahka/OoMN members.

19. What was the purpose of Matoran outside Metru Nui? I assume maintenance, but we never saw that happening and if they were maintenance crews, wouldn't it have been better if they knew why and what they were maintaining (Big Robot).

20. Why didn't anyone know they were in a big robot? Was it to prevent anyone from getting ideas like Makuta?

21. Almost forgot. Does magnetism affect only magnetic substances (metals and magnetic rock)? So it would be mostly useless in a purely organic environment.

And while I'm making a long list of questions, I'm going to throw in some opinions as well:
Reidak's power is ridiculous and terribly defined.
Is anyone else frustrated by the fact that, in hindsight, the Toa Nuva never won? Every victory they had as a team was already predicted and expected/hoped for by Makuta. And they were the central characters of the story and were the most powerful Toa and everything. It's just kind of a downer whenever looking back at the story ever since Makuta took over the MU in 2008.

~Legoman

Edited by ~Legoman~, Oct 07 2012 - 08:04 PM.

[bonesiii]

1) The Turaga hid them, yes. (One of my first theories that later was shown correct, heh. ) The original justification given in the comics was that Makuta considered them imposters -- overconfidence, basically, but we now know he wanted them to "defeat" him at several points along the way to gaining power of the giant robot, so they'd think that awakening the robot meant awakening Mata Nui. If he destroyed the masks and they beat him anyways they might get suspicious.

2-4) I have no idear... lol.

5) Yes, Tahu's symbol and masks were taken from the Suva before the city sank.

6) Yes, they made the Suva (no plural s ) based on knowledge of how in Metru Nui (where they had one in the Great Temple).

7) Whether attached or not, they were too big to carry methinks, but not sure if the Toa could switch masks later.

8) I think so; Greg said at one point the Noble masks the Toa collected for the Turaga were usable by the Turaga from the same Suva.

9) Good question.

10) We sail upward all the time; all rivers flow downward. It was a subterraneann river (a leak from the Aqua Magna ocean flowing down a crack caused by the Great Cataclysm, until the Toa Metru sealed it). The airships went through the sunholes.

11) Gambled, I guess...

12) Well, he's a plans-within-plans, contingency kinda guy.

13) They protocaged him first. Not sure if he wanted them dead though, memfog.

14) The cage obviously prevented that. It took someone outside the cage attacking the generator of the cage.

15) Unsure.

16) I think you're essentially correct. He needed Mata Nui to be revived or else the robot would never get awakened and he'd be stuck as a mere Makuta. Yet he needed it to look like the Toa were fighting him and his agents or else they'd stop.

17 (you listed this as a second 16) -- Maintenance workers. Like if you had to keep a car going for a hundred years -- you'd have to replace parts as they wore out. It's rocket surgery. Much of what you're talking about that didn't appear to contribute was for the physical and mental health of other maintenance workers. (Just like how we have entertainment... like Bionicle... which doesn't at first glance seem important, but keeps our minds engaged, exercises imagination, etc.)

18) Various specific functions they were better designed for than Matoran, Toa, etc. Rahi in general were to keep Matoran away from dangerous areas, but usually weren't intelligent enough to actually do any repairs. So other species like Skakdi could fill in those voids in the system.

19) It's all mainenance. We didn't see enough of the other places to know very well, but presumably there were machines like the Metru automated skyscrapers that they kept working, without necessarily understanding what they did, beyond "the Great Spirit wishes it".

20) Well, the GBs didn't know they would have the capacity to get such ideas, but they may have believed they could glitch anyways and with that knowledge do something like it. But IMO it's more likely that very fact -- that they weren't supposed to be fully sapient -- that explains it. The GBs didn't think they needed to know. They just had to follow their programming.

21) Right, magnetism can't affect non-magnetic things. It can bend light too, as a minor effect. May also be able to affect some other powers. But since nearly all the beings included metal, there was rarely a purely organic environment.

@ Reidak -- Well, okay.

@ Nuva never won -- yes they did. Makuta thought his takeover would defeat good, but the GBs ultimately fooled him (through their destiny system; they didn't actually know he would turn evil), and his actions inadvertently helped reform Spherus Magna and provide a permanant safe realm for all the good guys. The Nuva's actions all along the way made that possible. It's only a downer if you stop following the story before its end! Would you do that with Lord of the Rings, for example? Just stop when Frodo says "The Ring is mine" and assume Sauron senses him and gets it? Of course not. The whole story is a whole.

Also, Tahu (though reverted to not a Nuva ) specifically defeated the Rahkshi army. And they saved Mata Nui's life, among various other good side accomplishments that wouldn't have been possible either had they just given up. If they had, things would have probably turned out something like The Kingdom -- possibly some good salvaged out of it, but not as good as a reformed Spherus Magna. But then, there's always a struggle between good and ill.

Edited by bonesiii, Oct 07 2012 - 08:40 PM.

[Meta-Mind]

So I've been practicing my writing by rewriting the main Bionicle story with some differences, depending on what I feel works. Thinking about how I am going to handle some things, I've run into questions that some of you may or may not be able to help with. Rather than make a bunch of topics over time, I thought of as many as I could and compiled them all at once.

1. I'm assuming the Turaga hid the Great Kanohi on Mata Nui, so why didn't Makuta just destroy the masks? The masks were unnecessary to awaken Mata Nui, and there was no need to give the Toa more power. Maybe it amused him to let the Toa search for a tiny bit more power knowing it would not help them in the long run? Pretty minor question with no real effect, I'm just curious.

It was confirmed that the Turaga hid the masks, which they took from Metru Nui. As far as why Makuta/Teridax didn't destroy the masks, I think the explanation back then was overconfidence. Now, though, we can safely say it's part of his Plan - perhaps to make the Mata's defeat of him seem harder (as they might subconsciously think things like "I couldn't have done that without my Golden Kanohi")?

Exo-Toa
2. What was the purpose of the Exo-Toa in the Bahrag lair? My personal theory is that they were supposed to protect the Bahrag while they were asleep, but I have no evidence.

As far as that goes, I think that they were placed there by Teridax in order to aid the Mata (remember, the Brotherhood had a large supply of Exo-Toa, and they were invented in the MU, not by the Great Beings).

3. Why would Exo-Toa prevent the use of elemental powers?

I don't believe any explanation has ever been given for this, though out-of-story it was obviously a way to get the Mata to realize "the power of TEAMWORK" again.

4. Why did the Exo-Toa in the Bahrag lair attack the Bohrok-Kal? Were they operating on the goals of the Toa Mata as the last people who used them?

That's actually the way I've theorized it, though Teridax could have ordered them to slow the Kal down in order to let the Nuva beat the Bohrok (after all, he was nearly or fully recovered by that point).

A lot of the Bohrok Kal saga didn't make sense so I'll ignore it for now.

Such as the Nuva Symbols and the random Kanohi Nuva everywhere?

Suva
5. How did Tahu's Nuva symbol survive the destruction of the Suva? Did some quick-thinking guard grab it?

Possibly. However, BS01 states that his mask was lost. Not sure why some guard would grab the symbol but leave the masks... unless it was a split-second decision and the guard was all but walking on lava.

6. I assume the Suvas did not always exist on Mata Nui and the Turaga made them based on some prior knowledge?

Although I don't think this was ever confirmed officially, there was a Toa Suva in Metru Nui. It's likely the Turaga based the Suvas off of that.

7. The Suvas on Mata Nui seemed to be attached to the ground, so I assume the Toa/Turaga simply carried the individual masks and Nuva symbols down to Metru Nui?

I'm unsure as to how exactly they did this, but it's possible that they just moved the Nuva's masks (except for Tahu's, as they were... lightly toasted ) to the Metru Nui suva.

8. Could multiple Toa use the same Suva?

Yes. If I remember correctly, the Mata Nui Turaga used extra Noble Masks from their villages' Suva.

9. Why didn't Lhikan use the Suva and abundance of masks in the Great Temple?

...I really have no idea. There's the possibility that he didn't want to claim any of the masks as his, though, and that he felt his Hau would be the most recognizable "face" for the Matoran.

10. How did travel between Mata Nui and Metru Nui work? I never understood this. The Toa Metru were able to get to Mata Nui by boat, yet Mata Nui is directly above Metru Nui. I assume the airships were able to fly through some cave systems in Mata Nui Robot's face to come out on the surface, but I never understood how they were able to sail upward.

The Lhikan essentially sailed up a slowly-winding-upwards passage, which was actually just a tunnel network in Mata Nui's face. The Airships could probably just fly through one of the sunholes and come up in Po-Wahi somewhere.

11. How did Vakama know the teleportation disk he launched at a fleeing Nuhrii would bring him closer and not send him further away?

There's the possibility that he just gambled on it, though I prefer the explanation that Teleportation discs get some general idea of their user's intent.

12. What was the point of the Morbuzahk? I think I read on BSO1 it was supposed to drive all Matoran to the Coliseum where they would be encapsulated, but disguised as Dume, Teridax could just call an assembly to bring them all together, which is what he ended up doing, anyway.

You know Teridax... all those schemes within schemes...
In other words, nobody knows.

13. Why didn't Makuta kill the Toa Metru? As far as I can tell, if all of the Matoran were encapsulated and the Metru dead, his plan would work just fine, and I don't think he should have had any trouble dispatching six inexperienced Toa. Instead he played a game of cross the street without getting hit by a car and got himself imprisoned.

According to Time Trap, Teridax was distracted by having to deal with Nidhiki, Krekka, and Nivawk's minds at once after absorbing them, so he wasn't thinking straight.

14. When Avak trapped Kopaka in his mental prison, why didn't Kopaka attack Avak directly instead of focusing on the cage?

I'm fairly sure that the prison prevented Kopaka from using his ice powers (though why he didn't just freeze Avak over without any kind of beam I have no idea).

15. Are the powers listed for Axonn and Brutaka the full extent of their abilities, or is it unknown exactly how much they can do? Again, just curiosity.

Axonn and Brutaka never really got fully defined abilities, though it can be assumed that Brutaka only has epic strength/Antidermis consumption naturally (though now he has a bunch of Makuta powers too...). It's also pretty safe to assume that Axonn can just turn his physical energy into any form of non-elemental energy, as he's only been shown to use various energy attacks (plus boomeranging axe, for some reason...).

16. I may have overlooked this while reading the books, but why did Makuta send the Piraka to Voya Nui? Was it just to get himself into a position where he could directly affect event when things weren't going exactly how he wanted them to?

He sent them there as pawns, I believe, to try (and fail) to get the mask, but to give the Inika a hard time so they thought Teridax was actually trying to get the mask.

Some Bigger questions:
16. How exactly did the Matoran's work in Metru Nui keep Mata Nui alive? They provided resources like tools, but they didn't seem to ever do anything that directly affected the Robot besides liquid protodermis purification and solid/molten protodermis reclamation. Because seriously, Po-Matoran carvers contributed absolutely nothing, as far as I can tell.

I'm fairly sure that there were some structures and such which were vital to Mata Nui's health (plus liquid protodermis purifaction and sollid proto reclamation, as you said), though the Metrutoran probably didn't know it.

18. What was the purpose of any species other than Makuta, Matoran, and Rahi? Not including some one-offs like Karzahni, Artahka, Tren Krom, and some of the Hand of Artahka/OoMN members.

I'm not really sure if that was ever answered, though they may have been meant as part of the Great Beings' "Failsafes-R-Us." I think Nektann actually wondered about that at some point as well.

19. What was the purpose of Matoran outside Metru Nui? I assume maintenance, but we never saw that happening and if they were maintenance crews, wouldn't it have been better if they knew why and what they were maintaining (Big Robot).

It was probably just maintenance, to be honest. Except for perhaps the Av-Matoran, who were apparently meant to become Toa (as stated by Antroz, who said something like "Av-Matoran have an unusually high potential to become Toa). (Ironically, there was only one Av-Toa who ever came into being )

20. Why didn't anyone know they were in a big robot? Was it to prevent anyone from getting ideas like Makuta?

Since the GBs didn't plan on the Matoran becoming sentient, it was more likely a "they don't need to know" factor.

21. Almost forgot. Does magnetism affect only magnetic substances (metals and magnetic rock)? So it would be mostly useless in a purely organic environment.

As far as I'm aware, yes. Of course, it's still massively overpowered, as almost every MU being both is made of and carries some form of metal.

And while I'm making a long list of questions, I'm going to throw in some opinions as well:
Reidak's power is ridiculous and terribly defined.

I've always thought that the Piraka's "extra powers" didn't get much thought. Reidak was totally invincible as long as he didn't die in one hit, Vezok could imitate as many powers as he liked, whenever he liked (and any powers, including elements), Avak could instantly and unbeatably imprison anyone as long as he knew their weaknesses and powers, Hakann could infinitely spam mental blasts and drive enemies insane at no cost to his own stamina, Thok could bring anything - even a mountain - to life, and Zaktan had no power but was made of a cloud of prodotites, which essentially made him immune to any attack he could anticipate and move enough of his body away from.

Is anyone else frustrated by the fact that, in hindsight, the Toa Nuva never won? Every victory they had as a team was already predicted and expected/hoped for by Makuta. And they were the central characters of the story and were the most powerful Toa and everything. It's just kind of a downer whenever looking back at the story ever since Makuta took over the MU in 2008.

Well, the Nuva eventually did win - in fact, Tahu overcame nearly all the Rahkshi in the MU in 2010's (confusing and rather dumb) story arc, and the Nuva's "interference" was instrumental in allowing Teridax to fufill his destiny.

[~Legoman~]

*snip*
5) Yes, Tahu's symbol and masks were taken from the Suva before the city sank.

*snip*
10) We sail upward all the time; all rivers flow downward. It was a subterraneann river (a leak from the Aqua Magna ocean flowing down a crack caused by the Great Cataclysm, until the Toa Metru sealed it). The airships went through the sunholes.

*snip*
17 (you listed this as a second 16) -- Maintenance workers. Like if you had to keep a car going for a hundred years -- you'd have to replace parts as they wore out. It's rocket surgery. Much of what you're talking about that didn't appear to contribute was for the physical and mental health of other maintenance workers. (Just like how we have entertainment... like Bionicle... which doesn't at first glance seem important, but keeps our minds engaged, exercises imagination, etc.)

18) Various specific functions they were better designed for than Matoran, Toa, etc. Rahi in general were to keep Matoran away from dangerous areas, but usually weren't intelligent enough to actually do any repairs. So other species like Skakdi could fill in those voids in the system.

*snip*
@ Nuva never won -- yes they did. Makuta thought his takeover would defeat good, but the GBs ultimately fooled him (through their destiny system; they didn't actually know he would turn evil), and his actions inadvertently helped reform Spherus Magna and provide a permanant safe realm for all the good guys. The Nuva's actions all along the way made that possible. It's only a downer if you stop following the story before its end! Would you do that with Lord of the Rings, for example? Just stop when Frodo says "The Ring is mine" and assume Sauron senses him and gets it? Of course not. The whole story is a whole.

Also, Tahu (though reverted to not a Nuva ) specifically defeated the Rahkshi army. And they saved Mata Nui's life, among various other good side accomplishments that wouldn't have been possible either had they just given up. If they had, things would have probably turned out something like The Kingdom -- possibly some good salvaged out of it, but not as good as a reformed Spherus Magna. But then, there's always a struggle between good and ill.

5. Just FYI, according to BS01, Tahu's masks did get destroyed.
10. Heh, that's embarrassing. I always imagined it as being a much shorter trip than that, but yeah a few corkscrews around the Barrier or a few sharp turns would have done the trick. I think what primarily confused me is that I got the impression that they came out of the tunnel in the middle of the ocean looking at the island in the distance, but reading back through I see there is absolutely nothing that suggests that.
17. Fair enough, it just seemed to me like the majority of Matoran jobs were rather unnecessary.
18. I was actually thinking specifically of the Skakdi when I asked that question, because they clearly did a great job at whatever it was they were supposed to do . I know, glitches, Makuta interference, etc.
@Nuva-- Logically, I'll probably have to concede this to you, but emotionally: all of those actions the Nuva did were planned by Makuta until the conclusion of 2008. I admit I didn't pay as close attention to the story 2010 as other years, but as far as I could tell with Tahu vs. Rahkshi, basically Tahu got dressed and all of the Rahkshi died. I don't remember how much of a role the other Nuva played in that, honestly I don't really care because I dislike the Golden Armor as an idea anyway. I don't see the whole destiny thing killing Makuta as a victory of the Nuva, as far as they know, they got really lucky. Don't remember what you mean by them saving Mata Nui's life.
I didn't mean to say they should have just given up, I was just missing a straight up "Toa Nuva get together and thrash Makuta as he tries to threaten them." Unreasonable on my part, but seeing a rematch of the 2001 battle giving the Toa some extra advantage so they would actually stand a chance and then having them beat him would have been very satisfying to me. Again, not sure how it could happen story wise, but I wanted the Nuva to have some kind of individual win that wasn't planned by the bad guy. I think this feeling stems primarily from how badly the Piraka beat them back in 06.

*snip*

A lot of the Bohrok Kal saga didn't make sense so I'll ignore it for now.

Such as the Nuva Symbols and the random Kanohi Nuva everywhere?

Suva
5. How did Tahu's Nuva symbol survive the destruction of the Suva? Did some quick-thinking guard grab it?

Possibly. However, BS01 states that his mask was lost. Not sure why some guard would grab the symbol but leave the masks... unless it was a split-second decision and the guard was all but walking on lava.
*snip*

9. Why didn't Lhikan use the Suva and abundance of masks in the Great Temple?

...I really have no idea. There's the possibility that he didn't want to claim any of the masks as his, though, and that he felt his Hau would be the most recognizable "face" for the Matoran.

*snip*

14. When Avak trapped Kopaka in his mental prison, why didn't Kopaka attack Avak directly instead of focusing on the cage?

I'm fairly sure that the prison prevented Kopaka from using his ice powers (though why he didn't just freeze Avak over without any kind of beam I have no idea).

*snip*

21. Almost forgot. Does magnetism affect only magnetic substances (metals and magnetic rock)? So it would be mostly useless in a purely organic environment.

As far as I'm aware, yes. Of course, it's still massively overpowered, as almost every MU being both is made of and carries some form of metal.

And while I'm making a long list of questions, I'm going to throw in some opinions as well:
Reidak's power is ridiculous and terribly defined.

I've always thought that the Piraka's "extra powers" didn't get much thought. Reidak was totally invincible as long as he didn't die in one hit, Vezok could imitate as many powers as he liked, whenever he liked (and any powers, including elements), Avak could instantly and unbeatably imprison anyone as long as he knew their weaknesses and powers, Hakann could infinitely spam mental blasts and drive enemies insane at no cost to his own stamina, Thok could bring anything - even a mountain - to life, and Zaktan had no power but was made of a cloud of prodotites, which essentially made him immune to any attack he could anticipate and move enough of his body away from.

@Bohrok Kal-- Yeah, that's pretty much what I was reffering to, though I've convinced myself to accept the Nuva Symbol=battery pack theory that I think I saw in the threads pertaining to it. My bigger issue is actually the Nuva cube itself.
5. That's why I was confused as well, maybe Tahu stopped trusting the Matoran and just carried it with him?
9. He could wear the Hau most of the time, just use the Suva whenever. I feel that as the last defender of Metru Nui, he could use all of the power he could get. I guess switching masks was just not something the story team wanted to deal with anymore.
14. I understand the cage likely would have prevented it, but Kopaka wasn't even shown trying.
21. I was just clarifying because in Makuta's Revenge/one of the Kal comics Gahlok Kal is shown magnetizing Lewa's feet to the ground so I wanted to make it was simply a magnetic field created wherever undergraound rather than a magnetic attraction between his feet and the ground.
@Piraka powers-- Very much agreed, but Reidak always struck me the most because of the scene where he's surrounded by the Nuva and he just won't stay down. That was just unfair. At least the rest of them would go down if they were hit hard enough (except Zaktan). Speaking of Zaktan, why did he bother with legs if protodites fly?

Anyway, thank you very much for the answers guys.

~Legoman

[bonesiii]

As far as that goes, I think that they were placed there by Teridax in order to aid the Mata (remember, the Brotherhood had a large supply of Exo-Toa, and they were invented in the MU, not by the Great Beings).

A nice theory!

3. Why would Exo-Toa prevent the use of elemental powers?

I don't believe any explanation has ever been given for this, though out-of-story it was obviously a way to get the Mata to realize "the power of TEAMWORK" again.

Been thinking about it -- here's a couple ideas:

1) Elemental energy coursing through it might interfere with its function so it shields most of its robotic parts including all around the body, and the elemental power has to basically zigzag and squeeze to get through the non-functional gaps in the shielding.

2) Maybe to power the increased robotic motion a sapient controller will typically make it do, it has to siphon off some elemental energy to convert to fuel usage.

3) Brotherhood safeguard for their Destral and other Exo-Toa that's just standard in the design, from the time when they were keeping their evil-ness secret, lest their Toa Hagah guardians discover this and try to wield the Exo-Toa against them to boost their effectiveness. The weakening effect would make this inefficient. Yet, Exo-Toa would still seem to have a function as they can increase physical strength -- which is of no use fighting Makuta with protosteel armor, of course.

4) Perhaps a nonstandard feature added in those ones to force the Toa Mata to look for another option in defeating the Bahrag -- the protocage.

Possibly. However, BS01 states that his mask was lost. Not sure why some guard would grab the symbol but leave the masks... unless it was a split-second decision and the guard was all but walking on lava.

His mask? You mean his other collected masks plural? But it may also have been a matter of how much weight they could carry and the like by the time someone got to it -- and there were active Rahkshi in the village at the time that they had to avoid while escaping. It's possible Vakama passed word not to bother with the masks, knowing those could be replaced, but he would have no idea how to replace the symbol.

Plus, as long as the Nuva are together, they don't even need their extra masks as they can each share the powers with all six. So, a matter of priorities.

I assume the Suvas did not always exist on Mata Nui and the Turaga made them based on some prior knowledge?

Although I don't think this was ever confirmed officially, there was a Toa Suva in Metru Nui. It's likely the Turaga based the Suvas off of that.

Not sure what you mean that you're not sure if was confirmed, but just to be clear, I'm sure Greg said the Turaga made them. If you mean that we're not sure they based them on that design, I suppose we aren't, but it's a pretty safe bet, as it's the only past example we know of.

Another interesting question would be which Turaga knew how to do that, though. As it apparently involves a power -- perhaps a Kanoka mixture is involved. That could be Vakama, Nokama, or perhaps Whenua, as the most likely candidates, methinks. (Mask forger, teacher, archivist.)


Noted re: Tahu's masks...

There's the possibility that he just gambled on it, though I prefer the explanation that Teleportation discs get some general idea of their user's intent.

Pretty sure Greg confirmed it's random. Not sure how random; if it was truly random you'd think there'd be about a 50/50 chance you would fuse any target into a wall, killing any living targets, which a Toa certainly wouldn't risk, so apparently it must have a rule about solids.

Assuming there is such a rule, then if a Matoran is fleeing down a tunnel, there's a 50/50 chance he gets nearer or farther.

I do think it would be much better as a fusion of "general idea" and random -- not sure if that's totally ruled out, so I guess all I'm giving here is food for thought.

I'm fairly sure that the prison prevented Kopaka from using his ice powers (though why he didn't just freeze Avak over without any kind of beam I have no idea).

Just to be crystal clear in case my earlier answer wasn't clear enough -- Avak's cage power is all about opposing whatever powers or abilities the cagee has. There's nothing Kopaka could have done, because the cage power automatically adapts to block whatever they try. And there's no way to freeze someone without a beam of invisible cold energy at least, or with a radiating control of outside cold and heat -- the cage blocks all transmission of power.

@Nuva-- Logically, I'll probably have to concede this to you, but emotionally: all of those actions the Nuva did were planned by Makuta until the conclusion of 2008. I admit I didn't pay as close attention to the story 2010 as other years, but as far as I could tell with Tahu vs. Rahkshi, basically Tahu got dressed and all of the Rahkshi died.

Well, we're not here to make excuses for LEGO's rush job on 2010. But as far as emotionally judging the -content- of the core plot throughout the whole series, it was actually a classic "bad guy lets the good guys do what they were destined to do, thinking he'll turn their work to his favor in the end" kind of trope. The point being, it wasn't really Makuta who planned most of that -- it was the GBs and Mata Nui and the Order planning the intricate and thorough safeguard missions for what they'd likely have to do if Mata Nui for any reason at all fell into a coma. Makuta just encouraged them at certain key points to continue along that predefined path. The preparation list the Order gave them, for example -- that didn't come from Terry.

Even his taking over the main robot wasn't his idea -- that was his destiny. If it hadn't been he probably could not have done it. The only serious deviations were the actual choice to be evil and the evil actions that led to that. The "trick the Nuva into letting me take power" was just a recombinations of elements of the GBs' plans and it worked out, overall, in the end to accomplish the GBs' goals.

Yes, bad things happened along the way, but it's a story of a struggle against good and evil. Would you really want the good guys to never suffer any serious losses or apparent failures? There'd be no suspense then. Incidently, the decision that garnered the most universal appreciation on here at least from what I have seen was the move to let Makuta appear to win. People were really impressed LEGO did that and seemed almost at a loss to explain how the good guys could win, yet the story continued and Mata Nui promised he would try. That was extremely fun.

And in the content of the grand finale, if you can get past the poor stylistic execution of it since it was rushed, you see how the GBs' plans (and thus the work of the Nuva actually enacting them) all paid off. Don't forget to tune your emotions into that, because that's the big key of what it was all building up to. ^^,


As for the Tahu Golden Armor thing, I don't know if there's anybody who's a major fan of how that was done. There was at least a tad of suspense with it in the Mata Nui Saga, as some of the enemy soldiers stole the pieces and he had to fight to get them back against impossible odds. The comics gave no sense of that though, and the total surprise of it obviously made it feel majorly Deus ex Machina. Would have been much better if it had been known about much earlier, perhaps without knowing what it could do, etc. (And I have an idea or two also but I'm saving them for my Paracosmos fanfics. )

Anyways, that was really only a tiny fraction of the 2010 plot IMO. The real force of the win was the superior planning of the GBs, faith of the other good guys that fighting for what was right, even when apparently turned into help for the enemy in 2008's end, is still the right thing to do as the bad guys will lose eventually if they keep fighting for what's right, adapting as they learn more, etc. and the strong focused work of Mata Nui. The Nuva made all of that work. Plus their distracting Makuta internally earlier was much more influential in the final battle being won -- if they hadn't, Makuta could have went to kill Mata Nui before he put the prototype back together and powered it up. If that had happened at almost any time before it did, it all would have been over as fast as you can snap your fingers, heh.

Tahu's Golden Armor tactic was really just mop-up, and at that it only destroyed part of the enemy forces. Had he not done it, the good guys probably still could have won, though with much heavier losses.

In other words, IMO it is a mistake to see the Golden armor as "2010". If that's all you got out of 2010, do please go look into it more.

I don't see the whole destiny thing killing Makuta as a victory of the Nuva, as far as they know, they got really lucky. Don't remember what you mean by them saving Mata Nui's life.

It's all about faith, like Tahu said back in 2001 in the MNOG. They knew they were doing the right thing when they did it; their mission was to awaken the Great Spirit. And they did that, it's just that he was displaced and had to fight a bigger battle against the mastermind villain than he expected (which is what can be expected from a mastermind ). They didn't know if it would turn out well, etc. But it did, because they never lost faith that doing the right thing as closely as you can, learning more about what that is as you go, and fighting to recover even from your own mistakes, will eventually bring good results.

Had the Nuva not done all the work you saw them do, none of the good that came out of that would have been possible. Like I said, admittedly it's possible some minor good could have been salvaged as in The Kingdom, but that's certainly no excuse for just rolling over and giving up!

With saving Mata Nui's life, if the Nuva hadn't defeated Makuta in 2001, leading to Takanuva and the return to Metru Nui, they couldn't have learned Dume's revelation that his life needed saving, or opened up the pathway for the Inika to actually save it. He would have just died irreversibly.

I didn't mean to say they should have just given up, I was just missing a straight up "Toa Nuva get together and thrash Makuta as he tries to threaten them." Unreasonable on my part, but seeing a rematch of the 2001 battle giving the Toa some extra advantage so they would actually stand a chance and then having them beat him would have been very satisfying to me.

Yeah, I can see that, and had they not rushed the end, that's possible. But for the most part that's a matter of execution of the end, and really isn't relevant to whether the Nuva helped. Nothing that happened in the end would have worked without the Nuva's actions all along. That giant bullet that thrashed Makuta in the end had their stamp of manufacture on it, so to speak.

Also, 2001 made it clear from the start this was really about a struggle between Mata Nui and Makuta, so I (and probably most others I'd think) expected the final battle to be between them. A lot of people were theorizing and speculating all along about how such a battle could go down, and the Nuva rarely played much a role in those ideas from what I saw.

All that said, how exactly could the Nuva have thrashed Makuta in any believable way, considering the ubersuperextramassiveginormouswowthatbehuge size of the Great Spirit machine?

Really, the only way would have been something very much like the Golden Armor, and indirectly that's kinda what Tahu did by thrashing Makuta's personal invasion army.

I understand the cage likely would have prevented it, but Kopaka wasn't even shown trying.

Not likely -- guaranteed. That was the whole point of the power. He was actually shown trying three times to destroy the cage, and Avak explained that it wouldn't work. The scene cuts off there. It doesn't disprove that he may have tried; you can probably take it as implied that he then went on to try whatever he could, but we do know that if so, none of it could have worked. There's no "likely" here.

I was just clarifying because in Makuta's Revenge/one of the Kal comics Gahlok Kal is shown magnetizing Lewa's feet to the ground so I wanted to make it was simply a magnetic field created wherever undergraound rather than a magnetic attraction between his feet and the ground.

Either just a magnetic field pulling him down (most likely) or there was enough metallic traces in the earth/rock below him to magnetize.

@Piraka powers-- Very much agreed, but Reidak always struck me the most because of the scene where he's surrounded by the Nuva and he just won't stay down. That was just unfair.

Unfair by what operator? The GBs for designing a world where such a thing is possible? (They weren't worried about fair fights, there weren't supposed to be any.) The Makuta for their tampering? (Villains.) Reidak for not rolling over? (Villain.) Greg / story team for making serious threats for antagonists? (Generally the more intimidating the villain the better in these kinds of stories, and it's realistic as 'unfair' advantages happen in real life, thus defeats of good guys do.) Destiny for allowing them to face that threat? (They weren't the ones destined; it was supposed to be the Inika, and they weren't killed, so I really don't see why it matters. Their pride was wounded, but so what? That's actually a good thing as a story.)

I agree the idea of Reidak's power is very frightening and I wouldn't want to fight him. But that's what makes him such a terrifyingly fun villain to see our heroes face (and get thwomped by ). (Now if only he would have been that minus the cheesy lines lol.)

Speaking of Zaktan, why did he bother with legs if protodites fly?

Probably something like the Man in Black in LOST, who when asked why he didn't just use the Smoke Monster form all the time as it's much more powerful in Season 6 said he liked the feel of the ground under his feet; it reminded him that he was once human.

Although I get the impression in Zaktan's case that the protodite form is much slower than walking, or maybe just a little. It's like a cloud of plankton swimming hard, sometimes against the current (wind), or two legs easily walking. Likely harder to concentrate on too.

Edited by bonesiii, Oct 08 2012 - 01:37 AM.

[Toa Nidhiki05]

So I've been practicing my writing by rewriting the main Bionicle story with some differences, depending on what I feel works. Thinking about how I am going to handle some things, I've run into questions that some of you may or may not be able to help with. Rather than make a bunch of topics over time, I thought of as many as I could and compiled them all at once.

1. I'm assuming the Turaga hid the Great Kanohi on Mata Nui, so why didn't Makuta just destroy the masks? The masks were unnecessary to awaken Mata Nui, and there was no need to give the Toa more power. Maybe it amused him to let the Toa search for a tiny bit more power knowing it would not help them in the long run? Pretty minor question with no real effect, I'm just curious.

Exo-Toa
2. What was the purpose of the Exo-Toa in the Bahrag lair? My personal theory is that they were supposed to protect the Bahrag while they were asleep, but I have no evidence.
3. Why would Exo-Toa prevent the use of elemental powers?
4. Why did the Exo-Toa in the Bahrag lair attack the Bohrok-Kal? Were they operating on the goals of the Toa Mata as the last people who used them?

A lot of the Bohrok Kal saga didn't make sense so I'll ignore it for now.

Suva
5. How did Tahu's Nuva symbol survive the destruction of the Suva? Did some quick-thinking guard grab it?
6. I assume the Suvas did not always exist on Mata Nui and the Turaga made them based on some prior knowledge?
7. The Suvas on Mata Nui seemed to be attached to the ground, so I assume the Toa/Turaga simply carried the individual masks and Nuva symbols down to Metru Nui?
8. Could multiple Toa use the same Suva?
9. Why didn't Lhikan use the Suva and abundance of masks in the Great Temple?

10. How did travel between Mata Nui and Metru Nui work? I never understood this. The Toa Metru were able to get to Mata Nui by boat, yet Mata Nui is directly above Metru Nui. I assume the airships were able to fly through some cave systems in Mata Nui Robot's face to come out on the surface, but I never understood how they were able to sail upward.

11. How did Vakama know the teleportation disk he launched at a fleeing Nuhrii would bring him closer and not send him further away?

12. What was the point of the Morbuzahk? I think I read on BSO1 it was supposed to drive all Matoran to the Coliseum where they would be encapsulated, but disguised as Dume, Teridax could just call an assembly to bring them all together, which is what he ended up doing, anyway.

13. Why didn't Makuta kill the Toa Metru? As far as I can tell, if all of the Matoran were encapsulated and the Metru dead, his plan would work just fine, and I don't think he should have had any trouble dispatching six inexperienced Toa. Instead he played a game of cross the street without getting hit by a car and got himself imprisoned.

14. When Avak trapped Kopaka in his mental prison, why didn't Kopaka attack Avak directly instead of focusing on the cage?

15. Are the powers listed for Axonn and Brutaka the full extent of their abilities, or is it unknown exactly how much they can do? Again, just curiosity.

16. I may have overlooked this while reading the books, but why did Makuta send the Piraka to Voya Nui? Was it just to get himself into a position where he could directly affect event when things weren't going exactly how he wanted them to?

Some Bigger questions:
16. How exactly did the Matoran's work in Metru Nui keep Mata Nui alive? They provided resources like tools, but they didn't seem to ever do anything that directly affected the Robot besides liquid protodermis purification and solid/molten protodermis reclamation. Because seriously, Po-Matoran carvers contributed absolutely nothing, as far as I can tell.

18. What was the purpose of any species other than Makuta, Matoran, and Rahi? Not including some one-offs like Karzahni, Artahka, Tren Krom, and some of the Hand of Artahka/OoMN members.

19. What was the purpose of Matoran outside Metru Nui? I assume maintenance, but we never saw that happening and if they were maintenance crews, wouldn't it have been better if they knew why and what they were maintaining (Big Robot).

20. Why didn't anyone know they were in a big robot? Was it to prevent anyone from getting ideas like Makuta?

21. Almost forgot. Does magnetism affect only magnetic substances (metals and magnetic rock)? So it would be mostly useless in a purely organic environment.

And while I'm making a long list of questions, I'm going to throw in some opinions as well:
Reidak's power is ridiculous and terribly defined.
Is anyone else frustrated by the fact that, in hindsight, the Toa Nuva never won? Every victory they had as a team was already predicted and expected/hoped for by Makuta. And they were the central characters of the story and were the most powerful Toa and everything. It's just kind of a downer whenever looking back at the story ever since Makuta took over the MU in 2008.

~Legoman

I know there have been some answers, but I'll clarify on a few ones that I think weren't 100% accurate:

2. The Brotherhood, while they were still 'good', placed them there to be used if the Bohrok were awakened prematurely.
16. For one, the power plant was used to supply energy to other islands. Other functions like mask making were essential as well.
21. Magnatism wouldn't be useless in that situation. You could launch an blast of magnetism at something (I guarantee you that would hurt), create a magnetic field, etc.

-TN05

[Katuko]

1. I'm assuming the Turaga hid the Great Kanohi on Mata Nui, so why didn't Makuta just destroy the masks? The masks were unnecessary to awaken Mata Nui, and there was no need to give the Toa more power. Maybe it amused him to let the Toa search for a tiny bit more power knowing it would not help them in the long run? Pretty minor question with no real effect, I'm just curious.

The more the Toa went around the island trying to get masks instead of searching for him (Makuta), the more chances he had to infect/hinder/delay them before they got to the Mangaia. Remember that Makuta needed the Toa because of their destiny, so he would keep them alive. At the same time, if they were infected, it would be so much easier to control them.

3. Why would Exo-Toa prevent the use of elemental powers?

The Toa can shoot their power out of their hands, and channel it through their tools. While sitting in the cockpit of a big mech suit, however, their arms are entirely encased in the robot. Unlike Makuta, whose essence fills the armorsuit, Toa might not be able to channel their powers through the arm of the robot or its gun (which came loaded with electric rockets, it wasn't simply a blade or similarly "channelable" weapon).

4. Why did the Exo-Toa in the Bahrag lair attack the Bohrok-Kal? Were they operating on the goals of the Toa Mata as the last people who used them?

I had this weird feeling that it was either the Order of Mata Nui or the Brotherhood of Makuta who placed them there. If they wanted to hinder the Bohrok in case they ran rampant, note how the Exo-Toa are only active after the Toa use them. Before that, they were dormant and might need a trigger to start operating.

5. How did Tahu's Nuva symbol survive the destruction of the Suva? Did some quick-thinking guard grab it?

I believe it was said that after the Bohrok-Kal raid the Toa moved their symbols to other, hidden locations away from the Suva. If not, the Symbol of Fire might simply be fireproof, unlike the regular protodermis Kanohi.

7. The Suvas on Mata Nui seemed to be attached to the ground, so I assume the Toa/Turaga simply carried the individual masks and Nuva symbols down to Metru Nui?

Either that, or the Suva are different than what we've come to expect. We never saw much of them apart from people placing masks in the slots. Maybe all the masks were just teleported to Metru Suva before the island's destruction.

10. How did travel between Mata Nui and Metru Nui work? I never understood this. The Toa Metru were able to get to Mata Nui by boat, yet Mata Nui is directly above Metru Nui. I assume the airships were able to fly through some cave systems in Mata Nui Robot's face to come out on the surface, but I never understood how they were able to sail upward.

I believe they crossed the silver sea and then abandoned the boat in favor of tunnels.

11. How did Vakama know the teleportation disk he launched at a fleeing Nuhrii would bring him closer and not send him further away?

Either he has amazing disk-reading skills, or he simply gambled. It's likely the latter.

12. What was the point of the Morbuzahk? I think I read on BSO1 it was supposed to drive all Matoran to the Coliseum where they would be encapsulated, but disguised as Dume, Teridax could just call an assembly to bring them all together, which is what he ended up doing, anyway.

It seemed more like a "mess with the Toa" plot to me. He never needed the Metru Toa, and he believed they were un-destined Toa as well, so he might as well send them off to fight a plant instead of himself.

13. Why didn't Makuta kill the Toa Metru? As far as I can tell, if all of the Matoran were encapsulated and the Metru dead, his plan would work just fine, and I don't think he should have had any trouble dispatching six inexperienced Toa. Instead he played a game of cross the street without getting hit by a car and got himself imprisoned.

I believe Mutran lampshaded their leader's ineptitude in his blog serial. Teridax did make a few bad calls.

14. When Avak trapped Kopaka in his mental prison, why didn't Kopaka attack Avak directly instead of focusing on the cage?

It might just be that the cage forced his attention to it, "perfect prison" and all. If I trapped you in a net and danced around outside it, you'd likely be forced to deal with that before you dealt with me.

15. Are the powers listed for Axonn and Brutaka the full extent of their abilities, or is it unknown exactly how much they can do? Again, just curiosity.

We can only assume that it is every power, but it's far from given, especially now that Brutaka is full of Antidermis.

16. I may have overlooked this while reading the books, but why did Makuta send the Piraka to Voya Nui? Was it just to get himself into a position where he could directly affect event when things weren't going exactly how he wanted them to?

He was in his antidermis state and could not influence the action directly, so he decided to send the Piraka there to uncover the Mask of Life for him. He needed that for his master plan, after all. Once the Piraka were gone and the mask in the sea, he went and possessed Maxilos instead so he could get it personally.

21. Almost forgot. Does magnetism affect only magnetic substances (metals and magnetic rock)? So it would be mostly useless in a purely organic environment.

Magentic fields can be created by the Toa anywhere, they'd have next to no effect on pure organics.

[fishers64]

6. I assume the Suvas did not always exist on Mata Nui and the Turaga made them based on some prior knowledge?

I doubt that they were natural features of the island. Matoran/Toa weren't supposed to be there.

So yes.

Edit: For the record, found this when OGD hunting...
QUOTE(bonesiii)
Can Matoran on Metru Nui make a new Suva for a new Toa? Or are they more mysterious than that?

QUOTE(GregF)
Good question. I will say yes, because I do not believe the Mata Nui suva existed until the Matoran built the koro.

7. The Suvas on Mata Nui seemed to be attached to the ground, so I assume the Toa/Turaga simply carried the individual masks and Nuva symbols down to Metru Nui?

That makes sense to me.

9. Why didn't Lhikan use the Suva and abundance of masks in the Great Temple?

He probably didn't need to for his final mission. Or he just didn't think of it.

10. How did travel between Mata Nui and Metru Nui work? I never understood this. The Toa Metru were able to get to Mata Nui by boat, yet Mata Nui is directly above Metru Nui. I assume the airships were able to fly through some cave systems in Mata Nui Robot's face to come out on the surface, but I never understood how they were able to sail upward.

Actually, the boat never actually went uphill; as evidenced from Voyage of Fear, the boat was dragged (and the Toa Metru went up a switchback-style thing to get up to a higher-level body of water during the whole Mavrah incident. Some thing like this:

(1)

The voyage of the Lhikan had followed a pretty straight and level course so far.

(2)

The Lhikan drifted aimlessly down the river.

(3)

The Toa of Fire was asking himself the same question. He had taken so many twists and turns he was not at all sure he could find his way back to the other Toa.

Vakama led the team through the tunnels and back to the transport. While the others got on board, Matau flew ahead to scout. He returned in a matter of moments with a rare piece of good news.

“All open-clear ahead” he reported. “This tributary bypasses the lake and the Rahi beasts and feeds back into the river.”

So this was the part I had completely forgotten about. Those twisting tunnels. Now I don’t know why the Kralhi would bother to drag something uphill through water; my guess is that they didn’t. Also, none of the Rahi escaped the lake to the ocean above, which suggests that the waterway there at the end of the lake was a steep upward sloping ramp that poured the water into the lake. How the transport got to the tributary and which way the maze of tunnels went – lateral or up is an open question. I believe the tunnels slope up because that’s where the Toa Metru ultimately went, Toa Vakama stopped on a rocky ledge to aim down at the Krahli which were behind him, and there is no mention in the book of the Vahki transport having to swim upriver (although the possibility isn’t ruled out that the tunnels are lateral).

Said tributary could join back in on the Metru side of the lake where Matau turned left and got burned.

(4)

Matau turned the transport and for the first time they saw the island that would be their new home.

12. What was the point of the Morbuzahk? I think I read on BSO1 it was supposed to drive all Matoran to the Coliseum where they would be encapsulated, but disguised as Dume, Teridax could just call an assembly to bring them all together, which is what he ended up doing, anyway.

Probably a distraction to keep the new Toa occupied while he set up his evil plan.

21. Almost forgot. Does magnetism affect only magnetic substances (metals and magnetic rock)? So it would be mostly useless in a purely organic environment.

Entirely useless.

Edited by fishers64, Oct 12 2012 - 07:54 PM.

[The Iron Toa]

21. Almost forgot. Does magnetism affect only magnetic substances (metals and magnetic rock)? So it would be mostly useless in a purely organic environment.

Entirely useless.

Well, don't forget in real life organic creatures have small amounts of magnetic minerals in them, perhaps a Toa of Magnetism could manipulate them. Maybe not, depending on how they're bound to other molecules. But either way, Spherus Magna creatures have naturally metallic bones. I imagine manipulating them would be trickier than controlling external armor, but quite possible. Also, you can add plasma and (at least certain kinds of) protodermic water to the list of magnetic substances. I think I read something about water being made magnetic in real life, too, but of course that's not normal.