113 replies to this topic

[Jean Valjean]

Can I talk about Makuta's merits as a villain within literature as a whole. Actually, I can, and he does stand high in the list of villains that I love for sheer enjoyment. Every once and a while, it's fun to have a Big Bad who's just plain evil, and he was really fun, especially with the persona that set him up in 2001-2003. It's unique and has this occult, Halloween-ish feel to it that I really relish. He certainly needed more attention from mainstream culture, and I would love it if DC somehow found ways to use him again, because if somehow he was brought into Superman's universe he would probably be one of the more interesting comic book villains of all time, especially with his 2001-2003 persona. I would rank him in my personal top five of DC villains.

24601

[TNT-Vezon with an Olmak]

Can I talk about Makuta's merits as a villain within literature as a whole. Actually, I can, and he does stand high in the list of villains that I love for sheer enjoyment. Every once and a while, it's fun to have a Big Bad who's just plain evil, and he was really fun, especially with the persona that set him up in 2001-2003. It's unique and has this occult, Halloween-ish feel to it that I really relish. He certainly needed more attention from mainstream culture, and I would love it if DC somehow found ways to use him again, because if somehow he was brought into Superman's universe he would probably be one of the more interesting comic book villains of all time, especially with his 2001-2003 persona. I would rank him in my personal top five of DC villains.

24601

o...m...g...
Teridax vs. Superman.
Nobody wins.
That might be one of the most staggering implications of all time if DC and BIONICLE crossed over (granted DC published the comics, BIONICLE isn't part of their universe). Just...woah...

[ZOMBI3S]

Teridax is pretty sweet, but in my mind in order to be a really good villain, you have to hate him. I almost rooted for him a couple times, so in that case, Grima Wormtongue from lord of the rings wins over Teridax

[Damaracx 7.0]

Teridax is THE greatest villian, he was a total mystery, extremely manipulative, cunning, and unlike other villians he ACTULLY reached his goal without having it back fire on him(for eample the serpentine reached thier , but it backfired on them), sure he was stoped, but still.

[Master Inika]

I think Teridax is definitely in the top ten. I think he and Palpatine (probably better than Teridax) mirror each other a lot. In their respective storyline's opening years, they were just kind of stereotypical villains (back when they were just the Emperor and Makuta), but eventually, in almost a retcon, became these infinitely insane, scheming antagonists. Even the sub-villains of their storylines (like Dooku and Roodaka) ended up just being pawns in Palpy's and Terry's master plots.

[Toa Cehk]

I don't know, there are many nice villains like Kefka from FFVI, Darth Sidious from Star Wars, Homunculus (Father) from Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, Dr. Weil from Mega Man Zero and many others, so I can't decide who is the best.

[KlakWest]

Teridax is pretty sweet, but in my mind in order to be a really good villain, you have to hate him. I almost rooted for him a couple times, so in that case, Grima Wormtongue from lord of the rings wins over Teridax

Oh, right. Teridax only made me hate him when he killed off so many characters in 2008, and even then.

[Cosmic Titan]

No. Teridax was an arrogant brat and a pawn of the Great Beings. His plan was going to succeed regardless of what happened.

[darkslizer]

Well, he is the best I can think of at the moment. Although, I have always had a soft spot for Vultraz. Its like a domestic terrorism thing. Wait no, its like basic crime, very unorganized, one person.

Teridax had the least cool death, though, which takes away serious villain points. He survived The Toa of Light, the most powerful warlords of all time, and generations of Toa, yet he was destroyed by a really big rock. FAIL.

[fishers64]

Teridax had the least cool death, though, which takes away serious villain points. He survived The Toa of Light, the most powerful warlords of all time, and generations of Toa, yet he was destroyed by a really big rock. FAIL.

He wouldn't have been hit by that really big rock if Mata Nui had not pushed him into that rock. It wasn't the rock that destroyed him, it was time, luck, and Mata Nui. A rock is just a rock. It cannot destroy anything.

[~Shockwave~]

I also like Van Klies. but that's just 'cuz he's a badaft.
than you have that awkward moment when the bad guys aren't really the bad guys and by fulfilling your goal you've just fulfilled their goals, and ultimately destroyed the entire universe. (Keys to the kingdom anyone?)

honestly the last one is ultimately better than teridax because they won. but it's debatable who the bad guys where.

[fishers64]

I also like Van Klies. but that's just 'cuz he's a badaft.
than you have that awkward moment when the bad guys aren't really the bad guys and by fulfilling your goal you've just fulfilled their goals, and ultimately destroyed the entire universe. (Keys to the kingdom anyone?)

honestly the last one is ultimately better than teridax because they won. but it's debatable who the bad guys where.

Hey, I read that series (Keys to the Kingdom). It was really odd because the bad guys won, and yet they didn't win. (The way they won played into the destiny of the universe and...) Probably need to reread that one sometime. It is a similar idea to Teridax's win, but yet not. But I don't think he was as successful as Teridax, because when he destroyed the universe he destroyed himself too. Thus he wasn't exactly that brainy.

[~Shockwave~]

but that was the goal. (I think, It's been awhile.) the system was broken, so they needed to start from scratch.

[fishers64]

but that was the goal. (I think, It's been awhile.) the system was broken, so they needed to start from scratch.

That was the goal of the good guys, though, although they didn't know it. The bad guys were trying to destroy the universe, and the good guys were also trying to destroy the universe so they could start over.

Except the some of good guys thought that they were trying to fix the universe, not scrap it and start over, and the bad guys believed that they were trying to do that. Thus, in attempting to destroy the universe, they were playing into the good guys hands, which means that they are not so bright for not figuring out that the good guys were tricking them.

And thus Teridax is better than them (IMO), because he was able to figure out how the universe works and take over, rather than letting the good guys trick him into doing what they wanted.

[~Shockwave~]

but that was the goal. (I think, It's been awhile.) the system was broken, so they needed to start from scratch.

That was the goal of the good guys, though, although they didn't know it. The bad guys were trying to destroy the universe, and the good guys were also trying to destroy the universe so they could start over.

Except the some of good guys thought that they were trying to fix the universe, not scrap it and start over, and the bad guys believed that they were trying to do that. Thus, in attempting to destroy the universe, they were playing into the good guys hands, which means that they are not so bright for not figuring out that the good guys were tricking them.

And thus Teridax is better than them (IMO), because he was able to figure out how the universe works and take over, rather than letting the good guys trick him into doing what they wanted.

good grief that was confusing....
who else is awesome?
fir lord ozi was pretty sweet. that last battle was bomb.
oh. and shockwave.

[Wazdakka]

I had to think about this for all of 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds.

Yes. Why?

He succeeded.

He is the only villain in fiction (and real life for what I can think of) who succeeded in his plan. He took over the universe.

He is probably one of my heroes...

This. But also the complexity of his plans, where he made planned defeats. I'm not going to go into any more detail as others above me already have. However, Darth Vader, The Emperor, Megatron... they all rank up there too.

[fishers64]

but that was the goal. (I think, It's been awhile.) the system was broken, so they needed to start from scratch.

That was the goal of the good guys, though, although they didn't know it. The bad guys were trying to destroy the universe, and the good guys were also trying to destroy the universe so they could start over.

Except the some of good guys thought that they were trying to fix the universe, not scrap it and start over, and the bad guys believed that they were trying to do that. Thus, in attempting to destroy the universe, they were playing into the good guys hands, which means that they are not so bright for not figuring out that the good guys were tricking them.

And thus Teridax is better than them (IMO), because he was able to figure out how the universe works and take over, rather than letting the good guys trick him into doing what they wanted.

good grief that was confusing....

What is confusing about it?

The good guys who know the true plan can have the other good guys who don't know the true plan do what they want without telling them said plan. The fact that the good guys who don't know the true plan don't know it tricks the bad guys who don't know the true plan either into doing what they want. Is that it? Sorry to have confused you, it's just that that statement makes perfect sense to me. Happens all the time in stories.

[~Shockwave~]

but that was the goal. (I think, It's been awhile.) the system was broken, so they needed to start from scratch.

That was the goal of the good guys, though, although they didn't know it. The bad guys were trying to destroy the universe, and the good guys were also trying to destroy the universe so they could start over.

Except the some of good guys thought that they were trying to fix the universe, not scrap it and start over, and the bad guys believed that they were trying to do that. Thus, in attempting to destroy the universe, they were playing into the good guys hands, which means that they are not so bright for not figuring out that the good guys were tricking them.

And thus Teridax is better than them (IMO), because he was able to figure out how the universe works and take over, rather than letting the good guys trick him into doing what they wanted.

good grief that was confusing....

What is confusing about it?

The good guys who know the true plan can have the other good guys who don't know the true plan do what they want without telling them said plan. The fact that the good guys who don't know the true plan don't know it tricks the bad guys who don't know the true plan either into doing what they want. Is that it? Sorry to have confused you, it's just that that statement makes perfect sense to me. Happens all the time in stories.

maybe confusing was the wrong word....
I should be used to that by now, being in the process of authoring my own story. the plotline is relatively straightforward, its when you get into how and why things work the way they do that it gets plain ridiculous, the web of theoretical science I've had to weave is pretty confusing.

not to mention my main villain is totally awesome. does that count?

[that guy from that show]

I must say Teridax is terribly underrated villain. It's a shame he's not more main stream. One day there might be a movie marketed to teenagers and young adults rather then children that could portray him as epically as he deserves. (No need to get into an inevitable talk about a movie, that was just theoretical)

There are some villains however that are certainly in his league. (Emperor Palpatine, Hannibal Lector, Magneto, and Ben Linus to name a few.)

[fishers64]

but that was the goal. (I think, It's been awhile.) the system was broken, so they needed to start from scratch.

That was the goal of the good guys, though, although they didn't know it. The bad guys were trying to destroy the universe, and the good guys were also trying to destroy the universe so they could start over.

Except the some of good guys thought that they were trying to fix the universe, not scrap it and start over, and the bad guys believed that they were trying to do that. Thus, in attempting to destroy the universe, they were playing into the good guys hands, which means that they are not so bright for not figuring out that the good guys were tricking them.

And thus Teridax is better than them (IMO), because he was able to figure out how the universe works and take over, rather than letting the good guys trick him into doing what they wanted.

good grief that was confusing....

What is confusing about it?

The good guys who know the true plan can have the other good guys who don't know the true plan do what they want without telling them said plan. The fact that the good guys who don't know the true plan don't know it tricks the bad guys who don't know the true plan either into doing what they want. Is that it? Sorry to have confused you, it's just that that statement makes perfect sense to me. Happens all the time in stories.

maybe confusing was the wrong word....
I should be used to that by now, being in the process of authoring my own story. the plotline is relatively straightforward, its when you get into how and why things work the way they do that it gets plain ridiculous, the web of theoretical science I've had to weave is pretty confusing.

not to mention my main villain is totally awesome. does that count?

Yes, I suppose the main villain being awesome would count.
And theoretical science of it shouldn't be confusing. Maybe to the characters and to the reader at first, but it should never be confusing to you the writer. At least in terms of writing your own works.

Maybe the better way to say this is that Teridax knew about the "theoretical science" of his universe and used it to his advantage, whereas the Keys to the Kingdom villains didn't and they got stomped by it.

[the last chronicler]

He's pretty evil. Not sure why getting hit by a planet-chunk isn't an awesome death.

[Takatu]

Yeah, I thought his death was great, I dunno why people are calling it "just a rock." The only way they could defeat him was with a high-speed planet and timing that could only be described as divine. I think that says a lot about his tenacity.

[TNT-Vezon with an Olmak]

Yeah, he was defeated by essentially luck, timing, and teamwork. People forget that Tahu had to kill a legion of Rahkshi just to make him a little light headed. Then Mata Nui slammed him into a passing celestial object (see, it sounds cooler if you say it like that instead of "a rock" ). Also, the only reason it was passing by was because of the gravity blast that happened to strike the two moons. If it had been off bye just a little bit, it would have been much different.

Edited by TNT-DJ Vezon, Nov 20 2012 - 12:48 PM.

[Cratak]

No, I didn't read through all of this topic's pages. So sorry.

I wouldn't say he's the best villain ever, but I also wouldn't say any other villain is the best ever. He is one of my favorite, and I think that he could outthink and outplan any other villain, and he was motivated out of spite for Mata Nui, unlike the typical "take over the city" or "take over the world" bad guy. Also, I found it good for the story that he was killed, unlike countless other villains who never die.

[~Shockwave~]

but that was the goal. (I think, It's been awhile.) the system was broken, so they needed to start from scratch.

That was the goal of the good guys, though, although they didn't know it. The bad guys were trying to destroy the universe, and the good guys were also trying to destroy the universe so they could start over.

Except the some of good guys thought that they were trying to fix the universe, not scrap it and start over, and the bad guys believed that they were trying to do that. Thus, in attempting to destroy the universe, they were playing into the good guys hands, which means that they are not so bright for not figuring out that the good guys were tricking them.

And thus Teridax is better than them (IMO), because he was able to figure out how the universe works and take over, rather than letting the good guys trick him into doing what they wanted.

good grief that was confusing....

What is confusing about it?

The good guys who know the true plan can have the other good guys who don't know the true plan do what they want without telling them said plan. The fact that the good guys who don't know the true plan don't know it tricks the bad guys who don't know the true plan either into doing what they want. Is that it? Sorry to have confused you, it's just that that statement makes perfect sense to me. Happens all the time in stories.

maybe confusing was the wrong word....
I should be used to that by now, being in the process of authoring my own story. the plotline is relatively straightforward, its when you get into how and why things work the way they do that it gets plain ridiculous, the web of theoretical science I've had to weave is pretty confusing.

not to mention my main villain is totally awesome. does that count?

Yes, I suppose the main villain being awesome would count.
And theoretical science of it shouldn't be confusing. Maybe to the characters and to the reader at first, but it should never be confusing to you the writer. At least in terms of writing your own works.

Maybe the better way to say this is that Teridax knew about the "theoretical science" of his universe and used it to his advantage, whereas the Keys to the Kingdom villains didn't and they got stomped by it.

You have to realize that I can't just ignore the physics/chemistry/biology that are already in play. being a sci-fi story, everything has to be in line with that. and I'm still working on making everything make perfect logical sense. not as easy as it sounds.

[fishers64]

You have to realize that I can't just ignore the physics/chemistry/biology that are already in play. being a sci-fi story, everything has to be in line with that. and I'm still working on making everything make perfect logical sense. not as easy as it sounds.

I agree.

[KlakWest]

I must say Teridax is terribly underrated villain. It's a shame he's not more main stream. One day there might be a movie marketed to teenagers and young adults rather then children that could portray him as epically as he deserves. (No need to get into an inevitable talk about a movie, that was just theoretical)

There are some villains however that are certainly in his league. (Emperor Palpatine, Hannibal Lector, Magneto, and Ben Linus to name a few.)

That would be fantastic, and it would give Teridax the credit he deserves.

Yeah, I thought his death was great, I dunno why people are calling it "just a rock." The only way they could defeat him was with a high-speed planet and timing that could only be described as divine. I think that says a lot about his tenacity.

Exactly, and like I mentioned earlier, it was the one thing he didn't plan for. The perfect solution.

[Vahima- The Toa of Time]

If you are talking about in history of villains, then yes.
If you are talking about in just BIONICLE, then no.
Miserix and Icarax are just awesome but prefer to go with brute strength.
And Miserix is a Bionicle Chinese Lung. WHAT IS BETTER?!!? (looks of course.
But with his cunning, smart and a short-fused and little bit cocky attitude, I think Teridax is like me. And his claw is pure awesome.

[~Shockwave~]

If you are talking about in history of villains, then yes.
If you are talking about in just BIONICLE, then no.
Miserix and Icarax are just awesome but prefer to go with brute strength.
And Miserix is a Bionicle Chinese Lung. WHAT IS BETTER?!!? (looks of course.
But with his cunning, smart and a short-fused and little bit cocky attitude, I think Teridax is like me. And his claw is pure awesome.

can you clarify, that's a bit of a parodox...

[.:Yio:.]

Teridiax was most definetly the most awesome villian I have ever come across in terms of BOTH power and cunningness there is no equal out there. *Look at Hero Factory* Nup
*Looks at DC Universe*. Defintely no
*Looks at Marvel Universe*. Ok maybe Thanos is coming close. Or Doctor Doom. And Deadpool is a totally different version of evil


One thing I don't like about Teridax's character. With all of these evil abilities, he still died. And whilst it was due to his arrogance and I suppose power might have gone to his head at that point, I still think he'd be more careful that getting himself mooned like that. Mind 2009-10 felt incredibly rushed in BIONICLE storywise, at least for me.

[Velox]

Also Teridax is nothing compared to the Dark Knight's Joker (or DCU Joker) and Dark Knight Rises' Bane.

This. So much this. And a bunch of other villains. Out of Bionicle villains...Teridax is pretty good. In terms of power, sure, he's probably the greatest. But in terms of personal opinion, I prefer The Shadowed One or the Dark Hunters. Then again, I'm probably basing most of that off of fanfiction (Lady Kopaka's Let the Flames Begin, anyone?), but still.

[Takatu]

Isn't that kind of apples to oranges, though? I'll give you Bane, he's kinda similar, but the Joker is an entirely different beast. Kinda like comparing Moriarty to Vezon, other than being bad guys I don't see much to compare. I think it's important to remember that very rarely do you get a villain with a vision the scale and scope that Makuta had, which is partly why I think he's up there with the best of all fiction. Sure, there have been countless villains that have attempted world domination, but Makuta came up with a genuinely workable plan that wasn't just "hold the world for ransom with a ray gun" or something, and it was cleverer than just marching armies of evil over everything.

Granted, I think a very important aspect of it all is that he was smart enough to not tell anyone the full details of it until he already succeeded.

[Norik The Student]

You can't compare some villains together. Joker was just crazy, and what he wanted was not world domination. Makuta Teridax is by far number 1 or 2 in Bionicle. Maybe not in all fiction, maybe, but in Bionicle, yes,but he has close contenders, like TSO, and Tuna too, except Tuma's character was not well-developed enough. I find it poetic(as somebody mentioned a few posts back) he gets killed by a completely random rock. He is great as he has plans for everything, so I find a death by random space rock very fitting. He could plan for everything, but chance won him in the end. That, and an extremely OP Tahu blasting Rahkshi, amd Mata Nui's well-aimed push. So his death does not put his villain points too low in my eyes.

I think his trade mark is his ability to plan well, and despite many set-backs he could put them aside and even use them as springboards for his eventual victory.

[KlakWest]

Teridiax was most definetly the most awesome villian I have ever come across in terms of BOTH power and cunningness there is no equal out there. *Look at Hero Factory* Nup
*Looks at DC Universe*. Defintely no
*Looks at Marvel Universe*. Ok maybe Thanos is coming close. Or Doctor Doom. And Deadpool is a totally different version of evil


One thing I don't like about Teridax's character. With all of these evil abilities, he still died. And whilst it was due to his arrogance and I suppose power might have gone to his head at that point, I still think he'd be more careful that getting himself mooned like that. Mind 2009-10 felt incredibly rushed in BIONICLE storywise, at least for me.

Yeah, 2009-10 felt rushed. I liked them, but they felt rushed. I guess this is likely due to the announcement of Bionicle's cancellation.

Isn't that kind of apples to oranges, though? I'll give you Bane, he's kinda similar, but the Joker is an entirely different beast. Kinda like comparing Moriarty to Vezon, other than being bad guys I don't see much to compare. I think it's important to remember that very rarely do you get a villain with a vision the scale and scope that Makuta had, which is partly why I think he's up there with the best of all fiction. Sure, there have been countless villains that have attempted world domination, but Makuta came up with a genuinely workable plan that wasn't just "hold the world for ransom with a ray gun" or something, and it was cleverer than just marching armies of evil over everything.

Granted, I think a very important aspect of it all is that he was smart enough to not tell anyone the full details of it until he already succeeded.

Yes, he kept his plans secret to himself. I don't think even Antroz knew the full extent of it.

And I do agree that the comparison isn't really fair in that sense. Character traits aside, not many villains want to become a universe.

Edited by KlakWest, Nov 29 2012 - 04:17 AM.