114 replies to this topic

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

Any advice for a first-time RPG host? (assuming it wins, of course)

~UNQUOTE~

 

A few things that I suggest, though keep in mind these are opinions, and some would disagree with me -

 

~ Remember that there are only two things that are important - the characters and the story. The setting is just a vessel for it, whatever the genre. The story is not static, either - it is moving, flowing. And the players should be able to influence it and its course. Some things should be predetermined - but players should be able to at least delay most of things these things, or possibly speed them up.

 

~ Player characters are the most important thing in the RPG. Never forget this. In my opinion, PCs should always be superior to the average NPC; some species will naturally have the advantage, such as a Skakdi NPC against a Matoran player, but a Matoran PC should triumph over an NPC as long as the player is acting smart. Only a few NPCs should be on the same level or greater than the players. Those who are should not commonly interact with the players. The greatest amount of power should be assigned to beings that are supposed to be beyond the PCs ability to defeat alone - principal antagonists or ancient monsters and the like.

 

~ There are good NPCs and bad NPCs. Good NPCs are those like the average members of society. Bad NPCs are those who are useless meatshields, or who are psychopaths for no reason. The idea of a PC controlled by the GM who is below -

 

~ You should only rarely ever tell players they can't go somewhere. Trying to keep a secret or saying that it's for a later point in the story is not an excuse. If players want to get somewhere, and have a way to do it, let them go in. You can make something almost impossible to reach from the start, but let them find that out themselves.

 

~ Don't put everything on a map or describe it. Leave some things open for exploration.

 

~ In my opinion, the GM should never make an PC who starts off with the powers or station reserved for an NPC. I do not believe that all NPCs in such positions should be fleshed out into PCs. If the GM wishes to have a PC, they can make a normal character with the exact same starting position as anyone else. Generally, I see having a PC in an RPG you GM as a bad idea, simply because it means not only does your absence kill the story, it also kills the non-story related activities of characters that PC adventures with - you're twice the risk.

 

~ Don't make a long list of things that are allowed/not allowed. Character approval should be hands-on by the GM on a case-by-case basis after the players follow the guidelines.

 

There's other things, but I'm too tired right now. There's just some stuff.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[BenLuke]

~ There are good NPCs and bad NPCs. Good NPCs are those like the average members of society. Bad NPCs are those who are useless meatshields, or who are psychopaths for no reason.

 

No room in-between?   

 

 Player characters are the most important thing in the RPG. Never forget this. In my opinion, PCs should always be superior to the average NPC; some species will naturally have the advantage, such as a Skakdi NPC against a Matoran player, but a Matoran PC should triumph over an NPC as long as the player is acting smart. Only a few NPCs should be on the same level or greater than the players. Those who are should not commonly interact with the players. The greatest amount of power should be assigned to beings that are supposed to be beyond the PCs ability to defeat alone - principal antagonists or ancient monsters and the like.

 
 
I really, really disagree with this. Too often in the games on here treat NPC's basically as complete incompetent that exist only to be killed/saved in the PC's petty disputes, without doing anything to defend themselves when realistically they would. They have the worst elements of, say, the general populace in the Marvel universe, only without the perfectly reasonable skepticism about trusting beings that can blow up your mind with a thought. The idea that a character will always win against another purely because of the fact the narrative choose to focus on them hardly makes sense from an in-universe veiwpoint, and I don't really think it makes the game anymore fun to play unless one of the themes of your game is making the player feel like a bad@#$, which not every game needs to do. A horror game would be boring if you would just kill any NPC monsters, and a (quasi-)realistic game with a focus on building your own whatever with a limited amount of resources would feel cheap. 

 

Really, there's no real difference between an NPC and a PC except one is an reality defying singularity posing as an living being  that can never be killed and dodges every attack though at while the other isn't, and the former is a result of badly designed rules in the first place. Games with power-fantasy elements were the PC are above the average NPC mortal  (As well as ones with no NPCs at all were everything is player driven. )have their place, but to insist that every game must have that is just plain not true!

 

In other words, NPC's are people too, dangit!

Edited by Javert, Dec 08 2012 - 01:32 AM.

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

I really, really disagree with this. Too often in the games on here treat NPC's basically as complete incompetent that exist only to be killed/saved in the PC's petty disputes, without doing anything to defend themselves when realistically they would. They have the worst elements of, say, the general populace in the Marvel universe, only without the perfectly reasonable skepticism about trusting beings that can blow up your mind with a thought. The idea that a character will always win against another purely because of the fact the narrative choose to focus on them hardly makes sense from an in-universe veiwpoint, and I don't really think it makes the game anymore fun to play unless one of the themes of your game is making the player feel like a bad@#$, which not every game needs to do. A horror game would be boring if you would just kill any NPC monsters, and a (quasi-)realistic game with a focus on building your own whatever with a limited amount of resources would feel cheap. 

 

Really, there's no real difference between an NPC and a PC except one is an reality defying singularity posing as an living being  that can never be killed and dodges every attack though at while the other isn't, and the former is a result of badly designed rules in the first place. Games with power-fantasy elements were the PC are above the average NPC mortal  (As well as ones with no NPCs at all were everything is player driven. )have their place, but to insist that every game must have that is just plain not true!

 

In other words, NPC's are people too, dangit!

 

~UNQUOTE~

 

NPCs =/= Monster. A monster can be an NPC, but the common monster is on a different level. With the horror example, your monsters do not follow this ruling.

 

And just because a PC is a superior doesn't mean NPCs are immediately un-thinking and act as easy cannon fodder. Did I not say cannon fodder NPCs are no-no?

 

Obviously if the player is acting stupid, or just making bad or ill-advised moves, they'll be killed or otherwise deal with the consequences. But the point of the matter is, a good story is not written with the principal protagonists and antagonists being killed by a random schmuck. Usually. The fact there might be exceptions means I won't say never.

 

As far as my RPGs are concerned, any player who wishes to lose to a normal NPC can do so. When they're writing it's about their characters, and as long as they don't do something that could make playing less fun for others, then they can let their character just die in a regular fight.

 

To add in my two cents on the horror RPG thing, the threat of death does not a horror story make. If it's stated that an RPG is going to be hard and scary because the PC could always die.... that's nice. But it's not the point. You should never be trying to kill your players. You should kill them if they slip up in a bad way. And making NPCs stronger won't change things one way or another.

 

Like I have said - what matters to me is telling the story. Trying to make PCs just regular members of society and not something special doesn't make a better story, in my opinion. But out of respect for yours I will cease my arguments now - I've already had one argument along the tune of story writing end up with a situation I would not like to repeat some three months ago.

 

 

 

No room in-between? 

 

 

I'll rephrase my point. There are NPCs that are bad, and there are NPCs that are not bad.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

Edited by Toa Levacius Zehvor, Dec 08 2012 - 02:16 AM.

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

Hmm, thanks for the advice. I would tend to take the middle ground - gameplay should never be sacrificed for realism, and so a PC will always have an edge over an NPC, simply because it's no fun if your character dies. But if a PC becomes an invincible superhero, then I'll have to intervene.

[Grantaire]

Hey guys, I'm back again. And so is Testing Conflict.

 

I'm tentatively looking for people willing to staff it.

[Replicant]

A quick comment on the subject of Testing Conflict; You state that Hunger, Silence, and Density Control Rahkshi are allowed, but in the Rahkshi section, they're nonexistant. 

[Zeal]

I finally have an idea for an RPG, and I have, what, twelve days to work on it?

 

Best get started.

[JL v2]

Ok. I'll start when I get home, and hopefully stop procrastinating for some time.

[ZHX]

Now that I think on it, I probably won't be submitting an entry.

 

I lack the actual drive to really do anything, and I'll probably be busy adjusting to the senior school next year.

[Bulik]

I don't think I'm going to make my entry anymore.  It lacks anything really unique about it, IMO.  Maybe next contest.

[JL v2]

Spent about 2 hours putting my entry into words while eating and playing Halo.

 

So, uh, any opinions on Beneath Their Eyes?

[Kryzath]

So, finally got around to refining and resubmitting Claustrophobia. That being said, Dystopian has my support regardless of if I make it to the finals or not, because it looks -awesome.-

[Lord of Adders Black]

Well you asked for it. So I'm bringing the Pain

 

Lets hope you guys actually vote for it this time

[Replicant]

PAIN PAIN PAIN

 

Don't worry Adder, it will earn my vote at least.

 

Dystopian support? I'm pleasantly surprised.

Edited by Giant of Lannister, Dec 12 2012 - 01:17 PM.

[Kaitholas Cage]

I had a pretty good idea (in my mind) but I'm thinking I'll save it till next time. I gotta finish a COTRPG and some other stuff too.

Who knows. Maybe I'll get my behind in gear.

[ZHX]

Ah, Island of Pain.

 

Instant victory for that RPG.

[Zeal]

Lord of Adders Black.

I have never loved you more than this very moment.

*hugs*

[Parugi]

Now I'm conflicted as to whether or not I should enter, what with IoP being back.

 

^{_{That and I haven't had time to get very far on mine but still}}

Either way, instant vote for Island of Pain. Hopefully it wins again this time.

Edited by Parugi, Dec 12 2012 - 07:23 PM.

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

Island of Pain?

 

....

 

Yes. This is a good thing.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[Meta-Mind]

Dystopian is a thing this contest?

 

...Voting for it, definitely in if it makes it through approval.  I'd even be willing to co-host it if I got the chance, come to think of it.

[Dreadheart]

Everyone.

 

Vote for Island of Pain.

 

And I will give you all a big hug.

[BZP Blade]

Island of Pain most certainly gets my vote. =D

Surprising lack of posts in this topic, though... I usually expect more for the RPG contests. 0_o

[Zakar0%]

Hey, look. I went ahead and entered something. Maybe you could go over and have a look?

 

On other things, perhaps it's just because I wasn't involved in the last Island of Pain, but I'm not sure why everyone's so excited about it. It just seems like another RPG to me...

I dunno. Try and convince me if you want, I just don't see the appeal.

Zakaro

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

Hey, look. I went ahead and entered something. Maybe you could go over and have a look?

 

On other things, perhaps it's just because I wasn't involved in the last Island of Pain, but I'm not sure why everyone's so excited about it. It just seems like another RPG to me...

I dunno. Try and convince me if you want, I just don't see the appeal.

Zakaro

 

I didn't see it as particularly awesome when it first appeared either. I've put it on number one in every time it's appeared since. Honestly, I don't know what made it work so well, but... it did. It just did.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[Replicant]

I think it may have had something to do with the Battle Royale-esque setting, and the sheer competitive fun of writing for characters on an island where everything and everyone wants to disembowel you and steal any weaponary you happen to own.

 

Oh, and the fact that, for a large portion of the game, there was a Toa of Shadow that literally killed/defeated a dozen or so other PCs.

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

I think it may have had something to do with the Battle Royale-esque setting, and the sheer competitive fun of writing for characters on an island where everything and everyone wants to disembowel you and steal any weaponary you happen to own.

 

Oh, and the fact that, for a large portion of the game, there was a Toa of Shadow that literally killed/defeated a dozen or so other PCs.

 

Pfft. I doubt he got close to a dozen characters. If he had been a more successful killer, there wouldn't be a group of close to twelve people who all had him marked down as public enemy number one.

 

Then I replaced him with a demon that may/may not one day become a talking sword.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[Replicant]

Speaking of succesful killing, I seem to remember you ranting once about your assassian character in that RPG being unable to pull of stealth kills as easily as he should be able to. If I remember correctly, he only killed one or two PCs, yet was supposed to be able to sneak attack like a boss.

 

Ah, the twisted world of RPing. 

[Parugi]

Perpetual is up. Be sure to give it a read and some critique, because I haven't gotten a chance to really iron out everything in it. =)

Edited by Parugi, Dec 15 2012 - 11:38 PM.

[Ilyusha Blokfase]

• Infection Forms: Small, balloon-like creatures, with dozens of small tentacles spilling out from their undersides. Infection Forms are the root of all the others—they burrow into dead bodies to create the Common Form, and hundreds or thousands can join together to merge into the Breakers and Leviathans.
• Common Forms: Dead bodies reanimated by Infection Forms. Generally, they are a corpse—of any species—with numerous deformations forced upon their bodies, including the twisted movement of their head and neck away from their natural positions, the presence of an Infection Form protruding from their chest, and a mutated left arm that has been transformed into a set of massive tentacles. Always decaying, Common Forms have been known to be incredibly strong, with some possessing the elemental powers that they had in life.

This has got to be the first time I've seen something so obviously inspired by Halo but still managing to be as awesome as all the rest of the post.

[BZP Blade]

Lev: I'd say he got to a dozen easily; our friend we're chatting with provided about half or more of those kills. =P Since Suicavel was basically the assassin character for those who left, which caused some to try and beat him to the punch and steal the stuff first. =P But yeah, he should've been more effective. The problem with the group thing, however, appeared early on, when it proved that lightning, was in fact strong against the shadow monster. =P

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

@ Darkon;

 

Yes. I noted that Arillan, who was developed as an assassin, could theoretically kill somebody from afart easily. This does not work in an RPG with other players the way its set up on BZP; the characters will survive due to supernatural luck. That annoyed me at the time, but now I've become a major advocate of the whole 'the characters have the advantage, and luck is on their side.... for now' philosophy. Anytime a character was 'retired' while Arillan was in the area, I'd kill them and take their stuff. Same with Suicavel - but he just nabbed stuff that looked interesting and left other stuff behind or dragged it to his cave for later. Two masks on the shoulder just because. Really, just there to provide some loot.

 

@ Blade:

 

Lightning is strong against everything.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[BZP Blade]

Indeed it is; which was Suicavel's downfall in the end, literally. =P

 

Say; whatever happened to the shoulder masks, anyway? I seem to recall us passing them over. 0_o

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

Say; whatever happened to the shoulder masks, anyway? I seem to recall us passing them over. 0_o

 

No. You took one of them for Blade.

 

The other I don't remember. The Avsa, of course, didn't survive.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

Edited by Toa Levacius Zehvor, Dec 16 2012 - 01:22 AM.

[BZP Blade]

Ah, that's right; I took the Calyx, IIRC; I nearly forgot about that. I'll have to look over the topic as a refresher, just to recall some things. ^^'

[Parugi]

 

• Infection Forms: Small, balloon-like creatures, with dozens of small tentacles spilling out from their undersides. Infection Forms are the root of all the others—they burrow into dead bodies to create the Common Form, and hundreds or thousands can join together to merge into the Breakers and Leviathans.
• Common Forms: Dead bodies reanimated by Infection Forms. Generally, they are a corpse—of any species—with numerous deformations forced upon their bodies, including the twisted movement of their head and neck away from their natural positions, the presence of an Infection Form protruding from their chest, and a mutated left arm that has been transformed into a set of massive tentacles. Always decaying, Common Forms have been known to be incredibly strong, with some possessing the elemental powers that they had in life.

This has got to be the first time I've seen something so obviously inspired by Halo but still managing to be as awesome as all the rest of the post.

 

Well, it is my staple. Thanks!

 

Zehvor/Blade: You two and your nostalgic discussion.

 

... darn, now I'm feeling nostalgic...

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

 
Then I replaced him with a demon that may/may not one day become a talking sword.
 
-Toa Levacius Zehvor
 

That must make him feel FURIOUS! OUTRAGED! FILLED WITH ANGER!

Sorry, couldn't resist. Ignore this post if you don't know what I'm talking about...

[BZP Blade]

Actually; that's awesome. Lev, whenever Techna returns, that sword needs to be able to get a form of it's own. That, or fully take over the mind of someone. =P *Would have volunteered my character for that last time, but a Matoran got in my way*

[Hurricane iBrow]

If Perpetual had a banner, I would use it. =P That said, I'll just campaign for it nonstop when voting begins. And possibly begin work on a character profile immediately.

I wonder if the Tumbler would survive after all that... hmm.

 

-ibrow

[Meta-Mind]

 

 
Then I replaced him with a demon that may/may not one day become a talking sword.
 
-Toa Levacius Zehvor
 

That must make him feel FURIOUS! OUTRAGED! FILLED WITH ANGER!

Let me guess: he'll then proceed to go on a millenia-long quest to "awaken his master," involving kidnapping the "spirit maiden" and thrwarting the "hero" - and when his "master" is crushed under a Colony Drop, he'll use a random Deus Ex Machina use for Telekinesis that he's never used before to pin everyone in place as he grabs the "spirit maiden" and randomly travels to the past, where he transforms back into his true self.

 

Sound about right?

 

And yes, Lev, Lightning is strong against literally every element ever.  Except for perhaps Earth and Stone.

[Ilyusha Blokfase]

Meta-Mind, if you're just responding to JKK's want for somebody to get his reference, good on you. If you're responding to Lev having a demon spirit trapped in a sword, you're seriously mistaken as to how Kopraga worked.

 

If I remember the name right.