54 replies to this topic

[Flaredrick: Forgotten One]

What was life about before the war. Was it peaceful, aggressive, horrid? Did Matoran really exist in the robots that housed them, like the one Mata Nui was? If so, the responses you give me will help reshape my story line of what happened 8,000 years ago before the Shattering. I'll enjoy reading your comments and reply to your comments, as soon as possible.

 

Oh and if this topic is already out please let me know so I may make the correction. Thank you.

Edited by The Forgotten One, Dec 09 2012 - 05:22 PM.

[Dual Matrix]

I think it was a paradise the GB's making awesome stuff and no dreaming plagues, wars and bone hunters: PEACE

Edited by Dual Matrix, Dec 09 2012 - 04:08 PM.

[Makuta Matata]

Before the Core War, there were no Matoran. The MU was made to help fix the world after the Core War, and the Matoran too. 

For the Agori and Glatorian, it was peaceful, but not much else is known. The Element Lords were basically in charge, and there were different sections of Spherus Magna, but the Agori seemed to be content with this. Also, there was the Iron Tribe disease fiasco. That's all I can think of. 

But to answer your main question, the Agori lived in villages, or something like villages. Not robots. 

[Flaredrick: Forgotten One]

I think it was a paradise the GS's making awesome stuff and no dreaming plagues, wars and bone hunters: PEACE

Could please tell me what the GS's are? I kind of having trouble understanding  But you are right about the peace and all.

[Dual Matrix]

I think it was a paradise the GS's making awesome stuff and no dreaming plagues, wars and bone hunters: PEACE

Could please tell me what the GS's are? I kind of having trouble understanding  But you are right about the peace and all.

Oops typo I meant GB(great beings)

[The Iron Toa]

It wasn't really a paradise, but it was fairly peaceful I think. There were disasters, and the Agori weren't always good to each other - for instance, when the Iron Tribe was afflicted by plague they were ostracized and left to die. According to the timeline on BS01, the Iron Tribe plague happened about 3000 years before the Core War. Since there wasn't an Element Lord of Iron because that tribe had been destroyed, the Element Lords must have been made sometime after that point. So 5000 years before the Core War, you'd have the seven tribes and no Element Lords. The pieces of the Prototype Robot would also be scattered across Bara Magna, because it was built and exploded 50,000 years before the war.

[bonesiii]

Most likely there were small wars in their history but no other "world wars" like the Core War, so they don't stand out enough in modern memory to make it into a mention in story-established-so-far. Especially considering the warlike nature of the Skrall, and violent natures of many others.

[Flaredrick: Forgotten One]

In my story line there have been feuds between a tribe of water agori that were with my toa's team. Also, a group of renegade skrall had a feud within their ranks.

Edited by The Forgotten One, Dec 10 2012 - 10:27 PM.

[Baron Von Nebula]

Either there weren't many problems, or the GB's were really oblivious, considering they spent their time doing things like mounting cannons on Skopio. 

[The Iron Toa]

You'd think they'd only do something like that when there weren't enough problems. Those wacky GBs.

 

The Agori lived in cities, towns, villages, etc. We have evidence they used to have much higher technology than they commonly possess now, too. The Core War seemed to mainly be fought with infantry, though (with high-tech weapons, still). Maybe they never developed aircraft and such, or became more primitive even before the war.

[toa kopaka4372]

I think technology was far more advanced before the war. Who knows, they could have had light sabers for all we know

[LordofBionicles]

We could talk about many different eras before the Core War, I think the latest one would be the Element Lords ruling Spherus Magna.

[The Iron Toa]

If you have any more questions, I'd take a look at BS01's article on Spherus Magna here and the timeline of Spherus Magna history here (the timeline doesn't have a whole lot of info, but it's what we have).

[bonesiii]

We could talk about many different eras before the Core War, I think the latest one would be the Element Lords ruling Spherus Magna.

Well, it seems we know of three major ones.

 

1) Pre-GBs. Because Annona referenced the coming of them (whether coming into existence or coming to the planet we don't know). Presumably this was a time with Agori, at least, and probably most of the basic other types including Glatorian.

 

2) A time when the GBs were recognized as the rulers of the Agori.

 

3) The Element Lords' rule, as you mentioned.

 

Theoretically there was a time before any of these in which the basic Agori kind was speciating out into the other types of native life.

[Katuko]

I wonder just what the Agori thought of the Great Beings during their time of rule, considering they did things like modify the sand tribe into Zesk. But I suppose if I could have a prehensile tail and it'd give me a benefit in life, I'd take it.

In my story line there have been feuds between a tribe of water agori that were with my toa's team.

I can see feuds happening even before The Shattering making resources scarce, but neither Toa nor the giant Mata Nui robot(s) existed until the Great Beings constructed them after The Shattering took place.

[bonesiii]

I wonder if the Vorox/Zesk de-smartification happened as a result of competitive fighting because they got those GB upgrades? Intelligence often goes along with a more gentle trait, and especially so in kids' storylines (dumb brute cliche lol). Although it would allow you to outsmart the violent less intelligent, you might eventually tire and/or get outnumbered.

 

So maybe the more violent among those two types both got more and more numerous until they wiped out the more intelligent, and then again until only very dumb and very animalistic were left?

 

That could help explain why the same basic process occurred in two similar but distantly related groups.

[Great Being #1]

I wonder if the Vorox/Zesk de-smartification happened as a result of competitive fighting because they got those GB upgrades? Intelligence often goes along with a more gentle trait, and especially so in kids' storylines (dumb brute cliche lol). Although it would allow you to outsmart the violent less intelligent, you might eventually tire and/or get outnumbered.

 

So maybe the more violent among those two types both got more and more numerous until they wiped out the more intelligent, and then again until only very dumb and very animalistic were left?

 

That could help explain why the same basic process occurred in two similar but distantly related groups.

 

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This sounds exactly like the plot to the movie idiocracy (am i allowed to say that? also very funny i would recommend the movie to anybody 16+) Seems legit but wouldnt some of the smart ones survive? Maybe in exile but i doubt all of the smart ones would've been wiped out. I mean it is survival of the fittest and i'm sure some of the smart ones would've adapted or fled.

[The Iron Toa]

What two groups are you talking about?

[Chro]

What two groups are you talking about?

Vorox and Zesk.

[The Iron Toa]

Oh. I thought they both regressed like that because they were part of the same civilization, despite being separate species.

[Baron Von Nebula]

Well, Vorox and Zesk retained their ability to speak Agori to a certain extent.  They also are smart enough to do things like plan ambushes and recognize Malum as their pack leader after not having seen him for some time.  Perhaps they decreased in intelligence because they didn't need advancement.  I don't see how intelligence could really improve their lives- while they live in the desert and are savages, I wouldn't say that the other Glatorian/Agori have done much better.

[bonesiii]

Oh. I thought they both regressed like that because they were part of the same civilization, despite being separate species.

Yes, but that doesn't explain how it happened.

 

I did think just now, though, that my explanation was kinda assuming (unintentionally) limited lifespans like ours so the intelligent ones would die of old age, but I guess that explanation would make it likely some survived, considering they do live so crazily long. And who knows, maybe that's possible. That one Vorox from Bota Magna seemed more intelligent than I felt the others were, but I could be wrong.

[Dralcax]

Actually, the Bota Magna Vorox are intelligent. I think they were smart enough to live in a resource-rich jungle and build a civilization, while the less intelligent desert dwellers lost intelligence in favor of animalistic abilities due to intelligence being worthless if all you ever do is kill mindless beasts for a meal without the resources to make anything more complex or useful than a crude blade.

[bonesiii]

Actually, the Bota Magna Vorox are intelligent. I think they were smart enough to live in a resource-rich jungle and build a civilization, while the less intelligent desert dwellers lost intelligence in favor of animalistic abilities due to intelligence being worthless if all you ever do is kill mindless beasts for a meal without the resources to make anything more complex or useful than a crude blade.

So you're thinking basically the intelligent ones migrated to the best land prior to the Shattering, and kinda kicked out their less clever cousins or something like that?

 

Incidentally, is there such a thing as a mindless beast? People use that figure of speech, but surviving animals tend to be quite clever. And survival in a desert situation can indeed take extreme cleverness. Even humans can die for lack of use of brains in them.

 

My guess would be, though, considering the lifespan thing, that the desert Vorox might have gotten so used to just doing the certain things necessary to survive that it became more like instinct, and they had no need to hold on to the ability to adapt. Even though finding food and water in that takes intelligence, once you know how to do all that, it could become kinda automatic.

[Great Being #1]

How did a question about life before the war degenerate into a discussion on Vorax ahaha? But i agree with bones humans have been know to go crazy from working on repetitive tasks for extended periods of time, especially with no outside perspective so i dont see why that wouldnt be the reason nor what other possibilities there are for why they became so beastial.

[Chro]

How did a question about life before the war degenerate into a discussion on Vorax ahaha?

I'd say it's probably because there is a lot of mystery around what the Vorox were like pre-Shattering, or before becoming savage at all (and why), for that matter.

[Great Being #1]

 

How did a question about life before the war degenerate into a discussion on Vorax ahaha?

I'd say it's probably because there is a lot of mystery around what the Vorox were like pre-Shattering, or before becoming savage at all (and why), for that matter.

 

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Ahaha yeah that's probably a good call, i wonder if there were any other species native to spherus magna before the arrival of the great beings, but i guess we would've heard of any of import (like annona).

[Floridian Citrus]

On the topic of the Vorox/Zesk, I wonder if they were always a bit more savage and primal compared to the other intelligent species on the planet (both before the Shattering and before the GBs did all that genetic mutation stuff to them).  Almost like living in mostly isolation in the desert after the Shattering pushed them over the edge.

[toa kopaka4372]

On the topic of the Vorox/Zesk, I wonder if they were always a bit more savage and primal compared to the other intelligent species on the planet (both before the Shattering and before the GBs did all that genetic mutation stuff to them).  Almost like living in mostly isolation in the desert after the Shattering pushed them over the edge.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they were always a bit primal/savage even before the Shattering, and the subsequent disaster totally ruined them. 

[Podu]

 

On the topic of the Vorox/Zesk, I wonder if they were always a bit more savage and primal compared to the other intelligent species on the planet (both before the Shattering and before the GBs did all that genetic mutation stuff to them).  Almost like living in mostly isolation in the desert after the Shattering pushed them over the edge.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they were always a bit primal/savage even before the Shattering, and the subsequent disaster totally ruined them. 

 

 

 

Ever wonder if that has anything to do with the Agori's/Glatorian's loss of ability to create new things after the Shattering?

Edited by Podu, Dec 12 2012 - 05:33 AM.

[Floridian Citrus]

Ever wonder if that has anything to do with the Agori's/Glatorian's loss of ability to create new things after the Shattering?

---

 

I bet it does.  There had to be major society shifts when their planet just broke apart.  Wonder if anything else happened to the other tribes.  Like the Rock Tribe and their super ordered system.

[fishers64]

You'd think they'd only do something like that when there weren't enough problems. Those wacky GBs.

 

The Agori lived in cities, towns, villages, etc. We have evidence they used to have much higher technology than they commonly possess now, too. The Core War seemed to mainly be fought with infantry, though (with high-tech weapons, still). Maybe they never developed aircraft and such, or became more primitive even before the war.

 

Well, even in today's world wars are fought with infantry. They could have had airplanes, cars, and computers. Especially with the GBs to invent them. Then the war and the Shattering destroyed everything. 

[Constructman: Black Knight]

Ever wonder if that has anything to do with the Agori's/Glatorian's loss of ability to create new things after the Shattering?

---
 
I bet it does.  There had to be major society shifts when their planet just broke apart.  Wonder if anything else happened to the other tribes.  Like the Rock Tribe and their super ordered system.

I never really got that. It just seems to... Surreal. I mean, creation of new technologies is/was an essential part of human survival, especially back in the old days where man needed to outfight/outsmart the bigger and stronger animals.

[Flaredrick: Forgotten One]

I'm loving your comments. Especially those over the Vorox/Zesk. No one knows why they just became all primal.

 

Either way,loving it.

[fishers64]

Ever wonder if that has anything to do with the Agori's/Glatorian's loss of ability to create new things after the Shattering?

---
 
I bet it does.  There had to be major society shifts when their planet just broke apart.  Wonder if anything else happened to the other tribes.  Like the Rock Tribe and their super ordered system.

I never really got that. It just seems to... Surreal. I mean, creation of new technologies is/was an essential part of human survival, especially back in the old days where man needed to outfight/outsmart the bigger and stronger animals.
 

See, I have a theory on that. When the technological advancement contributed to the war and destruction of the planet - after all, wars are more intense if you have technology - then the members of that society decided it wasn't worth it anymore.

Also, the GBs weren't there to help them anymore. They might have given up helping the Agori/Glatorian advance for the reasons I mentioned - it contributed to a greed for power, which led to destruction.

[Floridian Citrus]

See, I have a theory on that. When the technological advancement contributed to the war and destruction of the planet - after all, wars are more intense if you have technology - then the members of that society decided it wasn't worth it anymore.

Also, the GBs weren't there to help them anymore. They might have given up helping the Agori/Glatorian advance for the reasons I mentioned - it contributed to a greed for power, which led to destruction.

----

 

Now that makes sense.  I wonder if it was also because they were focused on surviving/staying alive, so they didn't have much time to put towards inventing new things.  That, or they were completely relient on the GBs for their technology, which might work a bit better with your theory.

[The Iron Toa]

Well, even in today's world wars are fought with infantry. They could have had airplanes, cars, and computers. Especially with the GBs to invent them. Then the war and the Shattering destroyed everything. 

 

Good point. And we know they had vehicles with advanced weaponry. It just seemed to me if they did have other such things, they would have been mentioned.

 

Now that makes sense.  I wonder if it was also because they were focused on surviving/staying alive, so they didn't have much time to put towards inventing new things.  That, or they were completely relient on the GBs for their technology, which might work a bit better with your theory.

 

I'd say a bit of both. A lot of Agori must have died during the Shattering, so if they had scholars and scientists a lot of them would have been lost. And because they're so busy just trying to stay alive, they can't do much more than scavenge what's left.

[Flaredrick: Forgotten One]

That is true. So many lives have been lost during the Shattering. But now they can stop surviving and start living a new life.

[jalar]

I think technology was far more advanced before the war. Who knows, they could have had light sabers for all we know

 

Remember that Atakus' blades were made with alien technology ! 

Edited by jalar, Dec 12 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[The Iron Toa]

BS01 describes the tech as 'alien to Bara Magna' and says the swords 'were found in a weapons cache near what the Skrall believed to be a Baterra encampment'. So I'd guess they're either the Great Beings' work or leftover tech from the Core War era or earlier. Speaking of which, do they do anything special except glow? Maybe they used to have special powers but ran out of charge - I believe that was the case with a lot of weapons from the Core War.