Votuko

OK. So by your logic, Jaller's Mask of Sonar has never been canon because he never used it in the story. Toa Jovan was never canon because he only ever appeared in the story as a Turaga. Most of the Rahi from the Rahi Beasts guide and Dark Hunters from the Dark Hunters guide were never canon. Many of Makuta's Kraata powers were never canon. And of course, nothing about the 2016 sets is canon because the Netflix series hasn't started.Sorry, but your argument is a joke, and not a funny one. Just because SOME things on the Bionicle website have been proven non-canon doesn't mean we have to assume EVERYTHING on the website is non-canon until it appears in the story. It makes far more sense to assume the story and character pages on the website are canon until proven otherwise.I find this response quite disappointing, really. This sort of tone and misrepresentation of other people's views is what drives new members away from the site, and turns discussions into one-sided echo chambers by dissuading people from posting their own opinions. Anyway, the post. All those things you list did appear in official BIONICLE books, as you admit (you even named two of the books), so of course they are canon according to "my logic", because the books describe what is in the story. I also did not say that everything on the site should be assumed non-canon until proven otherwise, and you know I didn't. That would be silly (and a bit like what certain people were saying about the Mask of Time not looking like the Vahi). I merely pointed out that the character descriptions on the site, particularly the pop-up boxes, are known to be unreliable and so don't make strong enough evidence alone to source a BS01 article, especially when they are contradicted by a book. Which brings me onto the main point of mine that you failed to acknowledge, that is that we have a book that features LoSS as the main antagonist, and it clearly shows how the Skull Spiders serve him, without any mask needed. The Skull Spiders make the choice to serve LoSS when he is unconscious, at which point he could not have been using a mask on them. (If the mask had previously been somehow controlling them, they would have been freed at that point and would have fled.)

Huh, I didn't realise BS01 allowed fanfiction on supposedly factual pages. They don't; it's sourced. That's their source? I could give a link to the equivalent section that "proves" that Kopaka's mask gets drained by a Skull Warrior. Except that isn't canon, because it isn't in the story.(And wasn't there a section on Skull Basher's "Shoulder Spikes of Doom"? It's almost as if they were just making stuff up to sell sets... ) The thing about the mask establishing the telepathic link (with the implication being that the mask isn't needed from then on, I suppose) isn't actually supported by that quote anyway. That's just somebody's theory. What the quote says is that LoSS uses the Mask to control the Skull Spiders, as in it is needed all the time. Which we know isn't true, from Revenge of the Skull Spiders.

Huh, I didn't realise BS01 allowed fanfiction on supposedly factual pages. Hopefully somebody fixes that. @Lyichir For something to be canon, first it has to appear in the story. Maybe it will in the future, although it seems unlikely since in Revenge of the Skull Spiders, but it hasn't appeared yet. The Golden Mask of Skull Spiders was just the start of the tradition (although we didn't know it at the time) of G2 masks being hyped up in product descriptions to sell sets, then never actually appearing in-story. I certainly wouldn't be against the non-canon masks being retroactively given story roles later on. Ekimu could forge the GMoSS to ensure the Skull Spiders never become a problem again, for example. But for the record, judging by Revenge of the Skull Spiders, it seems unlikely that the Skull Spiders were under any sort of "mind control" at all. They continue to serve LoSS when he is unconscious, and show surprising levels of sentience and autonomy (holding reasoned conversations amongst themselves of equal intellectual level to any other character). I would say that they merely follow LoSS because he is the biggest spider, and his telepathy allows him to communicate orders with his followers, which they follow of their own will.

I like the idea of the Unity Masks being made from two halves, with the creatures' heads being one of them. But we have to remember that Club Magazine has been known to just make stuff up about the sets, like saying that Skull Slicer was controlled by LoSS. Although, they were the source that revealed "Kulta", and they were right about LoSS not needing the Golden Mask of Skull Spiders to control the horde... (Reminds me I never got round to saying "I told you so" to those people who were so sure that the mask was canon. Consider yourselves told. )

A small thing to point out: Ekimu's eyes are back to being blue on the new image of him on the site, even though it is his (otherwise real-world-accurate) set appearance. I just wish they had sticked to blue eyes in the animations...

The backstory included was interesting.

Sorry, I can't resist the bait. *dives for cover through nearby wormhole*

No, it doesn't. You are just asserting that.I'd say the main point of the section is about the existence of a more complete version of the Mask of Time than has been already seen. At least I'm not throwing around ad hominem attacks, eh? (Sadly I didn't attend a "high-school debating society" so I find it quite surprising when people think that sort of thing is acceptable in a well-mannered discussion.) As you seem to accept, the burden of proof is with you so I need not provide any further evidence to maintain my position. Basically, because the graphic novel as a whole is finalised - it has been released!(Although it's not really assuming that everything is correct, as there will probably be the odd mistake. Just that if you pick one detail, it is pretty much certain that that detail is correct.) And Occam's Razor doesn't work for you, because my argument doesn't use any assumptions. I'm literally saying "the MoT looks like the image that has been released of it". Anyway, I think I will have to step away from this discussion for now, as I'm not a fan of the tone it's shifting towards. Have fun, everyone.

Nope, we're working with this magical concept known as "burden of proof". Let me explain how it works for the benefit of the people who don't seem to understand it: 1. When something like a graphic novel is released, all the information within it is initially assumed to be correct, because it is an official source. 2. If you wish to claim that a piece of information is in fact incorrect, you have to provide evidence as to why this is. 3. If the evidence is compelling enough then you have shown that the particular bit of information is incorrect. This process is easy for "green Narmoto" because we can compare to the sets and all other story media, which it does not match. Therefore that depiction is incorrect. But for the Vahi, there is no real evidence for it being incorrect. The manner in which the image was created is not evidence that the wrong thing has been drawn. Argument from incredulity (ie. you do not personally know how it could attach to the other half in-story so do not believe it will) is also a logical fallacy. (And even though the burden of proof does not require it, I can give further evidence for the image being correct in the form of the BIONICLE team revealing that the G1 Vahi is a half mask at NYCC - the interview should still be on YouTube.) The "Vahi on forehead" thing feels almost like trolling at this point, since I gave two possible solutions for that earlier (using my pro MS Paint skills ), including one way in which the Vahi could attach to the completed mask in the same place it usually attaches to the head (ie. over the mouth), while still being considered the "upper half". But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just didn't read any earlier posts. Another thing I've already answered earlier (I may have to stop responding to these if it's going to be the same things over and over). But since you asked nicely, I'll draw a diagram for you:

So the fact that they literally showed it to be the Vahi in the graphic novel isn't an "actual reason"? Or the story team saying that the G1 Vahi is a half mask all the way back at NYCC? It doesn't really matter whether the illustrator broke into an arcade in the dead of night to steal pixels from Pacman to make the Vahi image; the Vahi is still shown, rather than the mask being obscured by light or out of shot, implying that it is finalised. I'd be surprised if the MoUP wasn't saved for 2017, since we have three years for the three main masks. Is it possible for both half masks to attach to the head piece individually, though? Because sales-wise, it seems unlikely that they will release a mask that only attaches to a mask from the previous wave.

"The U/MoT can't look the same as the G1 Vahi because the G1 Vahi is from G1."Running out of actual arguments? Quick-fire responses:(Individual quotes broke the quote limit, so I did this.) (1) The U/MoT had one brief story appearance a year ago. Hardly on the level of the three main masks.(2) I agree - the completed MoT will be in a set.(3) In your opinion. But so far it is only confirmed that they "combine" in-story. Did the Great Disks physically slot together IRL to make the Disk of Time?(4) It was promised at NYCC, at which point G2 only had three years confirmed, so yes it does.(5) They are probably both finalised. The half the Protectors own is shown in the graphic novel. The silhouette illustrates the point that the Protectors have never seen the other half. like dis if u cri evry tim :'''''''''''''''''''(

In Island of Lost Masks, Bingzak attempts to access his mask's power at one point, suggesting that regular villager masks do have powers. The BIONICLE website also mentions that masks of many powers exist, such as speed and strength. The basic Toa masks appear to be powerless, seeing as the Toa do not perform any elemental control while wearing them. Their only function seems to be to avoid the weakness experienced if a character wears no mask (see how Lewa collapses immediately when his mask is removed in the animations). The golden Toa masks seem to act identically to G1 Nuva Symbols, in that the Toa can only control their element whilst posessing them, and that their elemental energy can also be drained through the masks. Since Tahu and Kopaka are allies, I would theorise that if the pair swapped golden masks there would be no change in their powers, since the masks would still be in friendly possession. (Assuming the Nuva Symbol comparison holds.) The Mask of Creation's power is presumably to do with making things. Kulta's energy boost came from the fact that he was draining the mask's energy like how Slicer drained Lewa's mask. (And that energy was drawn in from the forge, according to Island of Lost Masks.) One final point about masks is that, while in his coma, Ekimu could communicate telepathically with masks he had made; talking to the wearer or seeing through their eyes. That is how he knew of the skull villains when the Toa awoke him. (From an interview with the animation screenwriter.)

Well, the main arguments given for it being a placeholder are that it is the "wrong art style" or that it is "copy-pasted". Yet, by looking closely you can see it is a new image, so isn't copy-pasted. And as it was drawn specifically for this purpose, the art style is a deliberate choice, not a mistake. The fact that the Vahi covers the bottom of the face, not the top, isn't really relevant to whether it can form the upper part of the completed Mask of Time. I gave two examples of how this could be done in a earlier post. (eg "Upper" could mean that part has to be placed on top of the other part when you lie the masks flat.) I think the assumption that the Upper MoT (or even the Lower MoT) needs to fit the new head piece is not necessarily right. (Does anyone wear the Upper MoT in-story? Why not? Does it not fit them?) Personally, I don't expect either "half mask" to appear in sets. [@Regitnui Yes, it's the G2 Mask of Time. No, it doesn't need to fit the new headpiece.] At NYCC we were told we would get a completed MoT in G2. There isn't time before 2017 ends to get three MoTs in set form, so I expect only the completed mask will be released. The half masks are just plot devices. Lastly, the mystery silhouette almost certainly represents the Lower MoT, not the Upper MoT. It is to illustrate the point about the Protectors not knowing what the L/MoT looks like. tl;dr: There are no arguments left for the U/MoT not being the Vahi that have not been debunked. If anybody wants to claim that an aspect of official story material is non-canon, the burden of proof lies with them.

By the same logic, Lhikan didn't wear a Hau, because that had way more differences to the other hau we saw than that MoT has to the Vahi.When did I say it wasn't the Vahi? I think you misread my post - I was explaining why it is a new drawing of the Vahi, rather than something reused. Hence it isn't a placeholder image, and (that half of) the G2 Mask of Time really does look like the G1 Vahi.

With all this talk of "placeholders", I'd really like somebody to provide the original image / concept art that has supposedly been copy-pasted into the graphic novel. Because to me, the image looks like it was drawn new for the novel. Looking closely, it is definitely "drawn" and not the CG render available on BS01. It is also oriented correctly in relation to the altar that it floats above, which is unlikely to be accidental. But the main thing is, whether deliberately or accidentally, it isn't the same design as the prototype Vahi (or any other prototype Vahi I can find on Google images). This depiction has four horizontal "bars" on the mouth area, while all the prototypes (and finalised G1 version) have five. Assuming you mean either of the half masks, I'd be willing to make that bet.Would 10 000 widgets be high enough stakes?

Or, they copy-pasted the Vahi because they were told to include it, but didn't have the physical mask to hand to draw a new representation from. Or it is a deliberate stylistic choice to make the mask seem like it doesn't belong, seeing as it comes from another universe / generation (or not ). Um, what about at NYCC? The whole "Vahi is a half mask, you will get a whole Mask of Time in G2" thing?And now, we have a graphic novel saying the Mask of Time is split into two half masks. And it also shows that one of those masks looks like the Vahi. Are these things coincidences?

Doesn't stop it being the upper half of the completed Mask of Time. For example: Or the writers may have got their "upper" and "lower" mixed up. Why ridiculous? The Vahi (in G1) was pretty underpowered for one (half?) mask, while the MoUP in G2 seems to have too much power to contain in one (half?) mask. If you worked out you had half a powerful mask but it contained less than half its full power, it would make sense to want to avoid making the second half that contained the rest of the power in case it was hugely unstable and dangerous. And there you have the basis for the One Element Rule. Combining Vahi and MoUP could then give a way to stabilise the mask at the end of 2017. (Not that I totally believe this theory, but it does fit.) But possibly the main reason to believe that what is shown in the graphic novel is canon, is what was said at NYCC in 2014. Remember, we were told that the G1 Vahi is half a mask, and that there would be a whole Mask of Time in G2. Most people dismissed that as a comment on the Vahi's shape, but now that there being two literal half masks is confirmed, it seems pretty clear that one of them will be the Vahi. P.S. Also, time constraints. There isn't time to introduce three new Mask of Time designs between now and the end of 2017, and it wouldn't make much sense to do so if the MoT isn't even one of the main masks in the story. Out of universe, the "half masks" thing seems like story justification for the MoT looking like the Vahi now but being completely different when released in a set.

Why can't the G1 Vahi (or a mask with the same design as it) be the "upper half" of the MoT? Surely that is precisely what the graphic novel is saying? They have no issue leaving the Lower MoT's appearance a mystery for now. So the idea that the Vahi is only used as a "placeholder image" for the Upper MoT doesn't really make sense when they could have just not shown the mask at all (eg. hide it in light, or energy like the MoUP, or just not show that camera angle like in the animations etc.). Maybe some anti-connection people don't like the fact that the Vahi is part of G2? P.S. I'm calling it that the MoUP is the Lower MoT.

One observation: the Tahu mask with question mark silhouette (presumably representing the "true" Mask of Time's "bottom half") is very reminiscent of the Vahi silhouette on 2001 mask checklists. "Placeholder mask", right? But what if that really is the outline of the "lower half of the Mask of Time", like how the 2001 checklist really did show the outline of the "upper half of the Mask of Time"? And wouldn't it be amazing if it is later revealed that the missing "lower half" of the true Mask of Time is the "transparent Tahu mask" given out at NYCC (at the same time as the first hints released of the Vahi having a G2 counterpart) and has been under our noses all along? First prototype mask of the generation; originally intended for Tahu; seems familiar... Edit: Wait, why are people talking about the bottom half of the Mask of Time maybe being the Vahi? Surely we know the top half is the Vahi from what is shown in the graphic novel.

This is good news, regardless. If they don't want to reveal the Mask of Time's actual G2 design now, it suggests that it will be included in a future set, which they don't want competitors to get a preview of. At the very least, this confirms that the Mask of Time will have future story significance. Because if it didn't have, then LEGO would never have the chance to show the "full-face" design that was promised at launch.

BS01 has got their hands on a preview of Gathering of the Toa: http://fb.me/4IaP7UW5T Most interestingly (and perhaps surprisingly, given what was said at G2's launch) is that the G2 Mask of Time is shown to look the same as the G1 Vahi.

Yep, I meant Ekimu's Protector mask. They could have at least given a recolour (the preliminary pictures looked like the mask would be gold and trans orange, so maybe that was the plan originally). I can't. We've know it's the protector mask for ages now,, and we've known that activity books never have exclusive stuff for even longer. Simply looking it up would yield that information. There's really no reason for anyone to have expected any more, and thus no reason to be disappointed.The Amazon description explicitly says: So anyone who does not live on a BIONICLE fan site is likely to be misled. Also, TTV have found a preview for Revenge of the Skull Spiders on iBooks! It looks like the book will describe

I kind of wish the activity book had some new background information on Okoto, but I'm not surprised that it doesn't. The only thing that could be called "world building" (if it is canon) is an activity for translating some names written in runes, where the runes are not the Okoto Alphabet from Island of Lost Masks or the simplified rune strip from the animations. What is bad is that the "exclusive" mask included is just Ekimu's mask. I can imagine some people may buy the book based on the mask and be very disappointed when it is not actually "exclusive" as advertised...

A question about the Quest for the Masks Activity Book: Does anyone know its actual release date? Because on Amazon UK, it is listed twice, one listing showing the cover art with a release date of the 25th of November and the other without cover art giving a release date of the 5th. And although the listing with cover art seems like the more up-to-date one, both listings recently became available to preorder.

I may be misunderstanding what you are saying, but I'm pretty sure the X-Ray power would work additively with the scope, giving it a greater range than "sight range". For example, wasn't there a time when Gali used the X-Ray power to see inside the Red Star while viewing it through a telescope (just another type of scope). Or were you referring to the scope's magnification? Sure, you can see to the horizon, but does the scope let you discern individual trees, or a fly, or a microbe, etc.?