TakadoxMusic

The thing is that Ta-Matoran can actually resist heat in the first place, while De-Matoran are hurt by their own element no matter what. They have acute hearing, but what benefit is that if you don't have any protection against the dangers of sound? For survival purposes? How are you going to survive if attackers make loud noises that knock you unconscious because you're too sensitive to them? Every other Matoran group has powers that give them at least some slight physical advantage to living in their environment, like the intense heat of a volcano, the frigid cold of the mountaintops, the high heights of the trees, the depths of the ocean, that not every being can traverse. But a quiet place? Anything can show up at any moment and destroy them all. Being able to detect acute sounds while also not being sensitive to loud sounds would give them a better chance of survival, because they wouldn't be immediately stunned by the sounds attackers make. Not that they would be invincible, but they could resist louder sounds slightly better than other Matoran, while Toa of Sonics could resist far louder sounds. But from what I understand, even Toa of Sonics are sensitive to loud sounds, effectively making their own powers a hazard to themselves.

That's pretty similar to what I thought, although my original thought was that my Earth element would be similar to original Earth with the night vision and mining while Metal was more like the Stone element, but now that I think about it, it does make more sense for the miners to be the ones who use metal and engineer the necessary tools, while Earth would be more like original Stone. Either way, I imagine both of them helping each other out often. To think of Kopaka as the Toa of Air would be strange but interesting. I just imagine a green recolor of Mata Kopaka in my head, lol. As for a Wood element, I suppose it would be similar to Jungle but just in the aspect of plants that have wood? Interesting way to look at it. If I were to keep Plasma in a scientific manner (which was kind of my theme), plasma in real life is a state of matter, CAUSED by intense amounts of thermal energy but not DEFINED by it, so perhaps the element could involve that. I don't really know if original lore Plasma involved the state of matter instead of just super hot temperatures, they don't use it enough to make it clear, but I figured there only needs to be one element about actual heat energy, Fire, while Plasma, if it exists, just involves the matter. So it's sort of related to the way you put it, because plasma is naturally generated at the cores of stars, but that's how I would define it using technical terms. I hope that makes sense. To put it simply: Fire = thermal energy, Plasma = ionized gas. I just feel that it doesn't need to exist separately because the Fire element already has control of thermal energy while Plasma is actual matter that is much rarer, so it could perhaps be a sub-power of Fire when a Fire user superheats gas. I like this idea. I agree that a lot of Kraata powers are kind of a stretch, and in my personal opinion having 42 of them is also a stretch since we only ever see 7 of them being used in the story, but I agree that regardless of the number they should all involve powers that are actually negative and destructive in nature to symbolize the nature of the Shadow element. Also side note, you may be wondering why I would combine Earth and Stone but not Water and Ice, well my justification for that is similar to how Light and Shadow are the antithesis of one another, and also to how Fire and Plasma are different in the paragraph above. Water involves the actual liquid form, which includes moisture, while I like to think that Ice involves thermal energy itself, but REMOVING thermal energy rather than RELEASING it, which is Fire. I did state my theme was to keep the elements defined under scientific terms, but for the sake of keeping Ice as its own element, I would say that what gives Ice their ability to move Ice itself, as in frozen liquids, is if the substance is sufficiently cooled enough. This means it doesn't have to be water ice, but any substance that is normally a liquid at habitable temperatures. Touching back to what I said about Plasma being a Fire sub-power, if a Fire user heats gas sufficiently enough to become Plasma, they can then take control of the gas, it doesn't have to be air.

Started a new thread here

The conversation from this thread shifted into the topic of rearranging and changing the elements that exist within Bionicle, since we thought many of the less-common elements are obscure and almost don't make sense as elements. If I were to recreate Bionicle from scratch, these are the elements I would make: - Fire, Water, Ice, Light, Shadow, and The Green remain the same. - Stone and Earth (and Sand on Spherus Magna) are combined into a single Earth element. (Colors brown, tan, and black.) On Spherus Magna, the Vorox remain in the "Sand Tribe" but there is no Element Lord of Sand. - Iron, or Metal, will be the new sixth primary element. (Colors Black and grey.) - Lightning, Magnetism, and Gravity are combined into an "Aether" element (colors purple and gold), since electricity and magnetism are technically the same force, and electromagnetism and gravity are both fundamental forces. Taking a look at the BS01 wiki also shows that the common uses of Magnetism and Gravity elements are very similar. The two nuclear forces can be left out, as I don't see any practical way to use them as powers without it being totally overpowered. - The powers of Sonics exist as sub-powers within Earth and Air (since sound is just vibrations through any medium) - Plasma and Psionics don't need to exist at all. Plasma is just an extra-strong version of Fire, and Psionics powers are used by so many other miscellaneous beings and masks in the first place, that I don't see a point in it being an element. Mental manipulation is not a tangible thing like all the other elements. What do you think of these ideas? Or how would you re-do the elements?

Also, going back to that idea of an "Aether" element, it could probably just be an element that combines Gravity and Electromagnetism, since they are both two of the four fundamental forces of nature. I think that's substantial - it could leave out the two nuclear forces because I don't see how those can be used as powers.

That's exactly why a lot of these sub-elements seem kind of ridiculous to have as separate elements. For some reason, they felt the need to make almost every Bohrok-Kal power a full separate element, seems like they just did it without thinking it through. Seems like we shifted this thread to talking about how we would regroup all the sub elements, but to be totally honest if I were to redo the storyline I wouldn't even make most of them elements except for maybe electromagnetism, iron/metal, and jungle, but even then I feel like they just aren't necessary. We can start a new thread on this topic if someone wants to.

I like that post you made about the differences! It's definitely kind of a stretch but if you want to really try to separate the two elements further, I think that's an interesting way to do it. However I also kind of agree that it's overthinking a bit to try to separate them - it's better to just accept it as it is, with Earth being small particles and organic soil as well, and Stone being larger rocks. To be fair, Earth does have another aspect that differentiates it - night vision. However I still think Sand is dumb to have as a separate element on Spherus Magna, it should've just been called the Stone tribe and been the same thing as Stone in the Matoran Universe. Fair enough about it being possibly too powerful. I suppose having Electromagnetism and Iron as separate elements would make them more balanced. An Aether element would be really interesting. This is a really cool topic to talk about, thinking about how we would redo the elements if we could. For the most part, I wasn't trying to think about how I would redo them as the story stands, but if I were to redo the story as a whole, if that makes any sense, so it's not really related to how Onua and other Earth beings currently use their powers. Obviously if we were to add or change powers, it would probably change the entire lore as a whole. But it's fun to think about how it would be different.

Yeah, I would say they can serve as separate elements because I would say Ice involves the temperature more than the substance itself and can deal with other cold objects while Water can manipulate the liquid form which includes things like manipulating moisture. The thing is that Fire isn't just about the chemical reaction, it's really about heat overall which itself is just energy and can be found anywhere. All matter has a level of energy that can become heat. Meanwhile electricity is less common because not everything is able to conduct electricity. However I do like the idea of combining it with Magnetism because they are indeed caused by the same force. I suggested combining it with Earth because as I said before, the difference between Stone and Earth feels so vague that ideally I would make them just one element, however I wanted to think of a way to keep them separate while having unique differences, so I thought Stone could be for things like rocks and soil (essentially combining what Stone and Earth are now) while Earth changes entirely to involve the natural forces. I suppose metal is different enough from stone - perhaps you could combine Electricity, Magnetism, and Iron into one element since metals are sometimes magnetic and good conductors of electricity? Maybe not lightning, but just conductive electricity as a sub-power. Then Stone and Earth can become one element and just deal with the kinesis of rocks and soil, and Gravity could be a sub-power. Sonics is just air vibrations, which already kind of exists as a result of making earthquakes, it's the same exact thing just in a different medium. I also think Sonics, with air as the medium, can just be incorporated into Air as a sub-power. I also agree with your point about Psionics, I stated before that I don't see the point in it being an element when it's just a power used by so many miscellaneous beings and masks.

You know what, I'm going to edit this idea a bit. According to BS01, many Toa of Magnetism were killed by the Makuta because it could mess with their armor too much. So in order to avoid this problem, we could just not make magnetism an elemental power at all. Gravity can stay with Earth, but instead of Magnetism, the Earth element could incorporate the powers of Sonics and Lightning as well. Sonics involves waves of energy (sound) which could fit into the aspect of Earth dealing more with natural forces, while things like Iron fit into Stone because that deals with the actual physical material (Earth deals with physical material too but the difference between Stone and Earth was always a bit strange to me, so I think this would differentiate them better). And thinking about it more, Lightning seems like an interesting individual element, but it's more of a force than an abundant material like all the primary elements, so it would be cool to make it a limited sub-power of Earth. The Green is good because it involves an abundant thing, plant life, which can be created and manipulated like the other primary elements, and considering they even made it the replacement for Air in G2 entirely, I think it can stand as a separate element.

I agree. To be totally honest, I don't like most of the "secondary" elements that they have. A lot of them seem to just be powers of other elements. Like Plasma, which is basically Fire but on steroids. And Iron feels like a sub-power of Stone, dealing with strong materials and such. (I also think the Sand element on Bara Magna is dumb for this reason. It should be part of Stone.) Gravity and Magnetism should be part of Earth to help differentiate it more from Stone. And Sonics and Psionics are both elements that I just don't see a reason for being an element at all. Sound is just energy waves, and Psionics powers are used by so many other beings and masks in the first place that I just don't see the point in having it as a separate element. Lightning/Electricity and The Green are the only secondary elements that I think are justified. I can see both being used in unique ways.

The Matoran of Sonics (and Toa for that matter) must have been created as some kind of failed experiment, or maybe a sick joke by one of the Great Beings, I'm convinced of it. Every other Matoran/Toa has elemental powers that benefit them, but for the Sonics guys, their powers are actually a DETRIMENT to them.The fact that De-Matoran and Toa are sensitive to loud sounds and have to live in a quiet place is like if the Ta-Matoran were sensitive to heat and had to live in a cold place, or if the Ko-Matoran were sensitive to the cold and had to live in a hot place. I know that this is because they have acute hearing abilities, but you would think the logical thing to do would be to make them have acute hearing AND resistance to loud sounds. If their entire specialty is sound, I think it would make sense for them to amplify higher and more distant sounds in their ears, while louder and closer sounds would be decreased in volume. What do you guys think? Are the De-Matoran unfortunate, or could they have some kind of justification for their sensitivity?

I agree with this theory here. I feel like the real difference between male and female in the mostly-robotic Matoran Universe beings is akin to the difference between setting your Siri voice as male or female - a characteristic of aesthetic more than function. Since Glatorian and Agori can reproduce biologically, I imagine the Great Beings wanted to implement gender into the Matoran Universe somehow, even if it was through a different system, because it is likely a similarly important aspect of life to them as it is to people and animals on Earth. However they probably wanted to implement gender in a way that complements the uniformity they were going for within each elemental group, so they made some elements strictly male and others strictly female. However, Matorans' gender may actually determine psychological/personality differences between them. If we look at Orde's BS01 article, it says the Great Beings changed all Psionics Matoran to female after his bad temper proved dangerous "as the Great Beings believed females were more gentle than males."

He just posted a video of him drawing the original Three Virtues logo in the sand. He doesn't tag Rebel Nature or Rebel2020 in this one, so I guess there is still a chance it could be its own thing separate from Rebel Nature.

He's starting to tag every 14b2020 post with 2020rebel, so at this point I think it's safe to assume that whatever this Bionicle spiritual successor is, it may be a part of Rebel Nature. Either that or he just wants to keep promoting Rebel Nature at the same time as he keeps teasing 14b2020. Either way, with April 1st coming up, I'm excited to see what will happen that day, since the "14" clearly means April 1st, and it checks out since he first posted the 3IO teaser April 1st last year.

I'm convinced it's definitely some kind of new project/franchise in the works. Faber is creating his own "Rebel Nature" IP that he's been hyping up for YEARS now. Even if it's just a spiritual successor to Bionicle, I'm thinking it will be something substantial. And with the hashtag #14B2020 I'm assuming he will fully reveal it sometime within 2020.

Way too early in my opinion for an attempt at a G3. If Lego is going to bring back Bionicle again in the future, they should at least wait until the mid to late 2020s to try again. Gotta give things time to heal first before just jumping straight into the action again. A spiritual successor not branded as Bionicle would be more appropriate. They already did that with Hero Factory and it was much more successful than Bionicle G2. I think they should've actually continued Hero Factory for the rest of the decade instead of going straight into G2 in 2015, because even that was too early. Of course, Bionicle G1 has a certain magic to it that can't be fully replicated, so at this point it wouldn't be much of a surprise to me if this was really a hard G3.

By the way, the Bionicle storyline does have an "endpoint" as far as the main tenure goes but the story never really came to an end after that, because Greg F. kept writing the story long after the sets stopped releasing, and the story never came to a true ending. If they were to turn these serials into part of the movie series, it would open up a new possibility of turning them into visual media, since we never got comics for them or anything. I think a revival of the G1 story would allow Greg to continue writing the storyline until it does actually come to an endpoint, although the amount of continuation Lego actually had planned past 2010 would be enough to double the entire series' length. I agree here, I do think Star Wars would actually be a FAR better comparison to Bionicle in terms of story structure. I only mentioned the MCU because I had just watched Infinity War and it's an equally ambitious franchise as Star Wars; I was more so referencing its CGI and special effects than the structure of the series, but that can certainly be applied to Star Wars as well. I like these ideas. I do agree there's a lot of potential for spin-offs; whether they are movies or TV shows doesn't matter to me but I suppose a TV show format would fit some of the more fleshed-out spin-off arcs. As I said above, I also think the incomplete continuation of the storyline after Teridax's death would make for a great spin-off, if not an actual continuation of the main film series. I never thought about the entry points thing either, but I agree with that idea that having multiple arcs allows for multiple waves of fans to come in one by one - I think the original Bionicle G1 tenure allowed for that very easily. You have kids who grew up with the 2001-2003 Mata Nui story, the kids who grew up with the 2004-2005 Metru Nui story, and then younger kids like me who got into it after the 2006 story.

I totally agree with you here. You kinda misunderstood what I was getting at; perhaps I should have reworded it when I said "cinematic universe" but I didn't mean that as in literally being the same structure as the MCU. Hence the quotation marks, and why I referred to it as simply a "film series" in all other sentences. I do agree that Bionicle is a continuous story with a single endpoint, but the story was divided into arcs with each year of its run telling a different arc in the story, which would be fitting for a series of movies or a TV show. Similar to how the first four movies each covered a separate arc of the Bionicle storyline, but the idea here is if they were to tell the entire G1 storyline in a series of about 9 or 10 movies - not a total reboot of the franchise or creating a new storyline, rather, simply adapting the already established storyline into visual media.

Personally, I'm not much of a movie watcher. I haven't seen anything like Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, or even the MCU movies. However, I did watch Infinity War yesterday because my friend bought seven tickets to Endgame and I'd feel bad if I didn't make use of one of them, being one of his best friends. After seeing Infinity War though, and how incredible the CGI and motion capture is in that movie, it got me thinking - what if Lego were somehow able to fund a new Bionicle movie with this Hollywood level of production? I've seen others on this forum discuss that the Hollywood Transformers style of CGI would also be fitting for a high-budget Bionicle movie. In my opinion, I'd like to see an adaptation of the G1 storyline into a "cinematic universe" kind of like the MCU if they were to revive Bionicle in the form of a new media franchise, rather than a Lego Movie-style comedic spoof (would not be fitting for the serious tone of Bionicle - they could add some humor here and there but the overall tone of the films should be serious, which is what MCU is like as far as I'm aware). I would not want any live-action humans in the movie either, but I do believe motion capture could be used for many scenes, although full CGI could be implemented in cases where the stunts are too unrealistic (but so many things are possible in today's movies using motion capture that I don't think it would be too much of a problem). Of course, the budget would need to be super high for something like that, so I wouldn't mind if the entire movie were to be made in full CGI either, but just imagine the level of detail they could create with a movie in that style. Also, in terms of the story, if people can take Marvel comics and adapt them into cinematic legends, then I believe that adapting the Bionicle comics and story serials into a film franchise would be very easy to do, especially if Greg Farshtey were to have a major role in the screenplay. The only problem is that franchises like Marvel, DC Superheroes, Star Wars, etc have been around for decades and have formed massive legacies with undying influence on pop culture, whereas Bionicle is less than 20 years old, had a failed reboot recently, and is only popular in a niche audience, which would certainly affect a revival film franchise's success. Although I do believe a successful, well-produced cinematic revival franchise would draw in a considerable number of new fans. What do you guys think? What would you like to see if Lego were to revive Bionicle through a new movie series, or even a TV show? Edit: I am not referencing the structure of the MCU, as this would not be a good structure for the continuous Bionicle storyline - something like Star Wars would actually fit that structure much better. I am mainly referencing the CGI and special effects used in the high budget of the MCU movies.

Here's one I just whipped up, not sure if this has been done before

Scratch my last post, THIS is now my favorite

We can all hope and dream, but even if Bionicle G3 ever happens, it probably won't happen for at least another decade, and even then, it probably wouldn't be able to top the first generation because of nostalgia reasons. But for the kids of the future who potentially grow up with another Bionicle generation, let's hope there's just as much effort put into it as the first one so that they can have a good childhood as well. Although if that's the case then the story probably won't be anything like the first generation, because I don't think they'd retell the entire original story in the same detail all over again. They would probably create a completely original universe with new characters and everything.

https://imgur.com/hIHKZJS (image won't show up with the tool so here's just the link) I got into Bionicle in the later years, so Boggarak was my first set, followed by Toa Inika Nuparu and Matoro. Late 2007 was when I really began collecting them, as you can see. Ebay exists so I actually got the Vahki and Metrutoran in 2014, and I got the Piraka last November. There was a section for the Stars as well but I'm not a big fan of those. I do own Nektann but I'm considering on selling him as I don't have many memories with that set, even the 2009 sets mean more to me than that. Oh, and I'm sure we all know why Ehlek and Hahli Mahri are incomplete. I believe the total number is around 70 or so. I don't own any G2 sets. (Ironically, I own Carapar and Ehlek, but I never owned Takadox, despite him being my namesake.)

Not sure if this one's been posted in this thread before but this is my favorite

Since the mask was known as a legend before its creation, perhaps it was just the shape known by its legend, if there were ever pictures made of it. Or maybe if the shape had never been theorized, Vakama just made it however he wanted to, if there was no preset guideline on how it should look. The Vahi attempts likely kept breaking because he wasn't using the right disks, not because of the shape.