Torchflare1234

I meant any telekinetic, whether it's element-specific(Stone, Iron, etc.), nonspecific(Psionics and Matatu), or non-elemental (those for whom telekinesis wouldn't be a power, but a natural ability.) And actually, looking back at the quote involving the Matatu, Greg never said Nuju can't use it to lift himself, he said Nuju doesn't use it. However, the rest of the quote would imply that Nuju can't. So... I posted this in that topic in response to Meta-Mind. Think that might give us the answers we want?

Greg said a Toa of Iron can't fly by controlling his armor, not entirely ruling out levitation/flight by another means. We also never found a quote from Greg that said Toa can't lift themselves indirectly. We're mostly curious if a user of a Mask of Telekinesis can lift himself or herself indirectly like Pohatu did. Same with a Toa of Iron. A yes or no on these would provide a better answer for us. I'd also like to know if a Toa of Psionic's telekinesis works the same as the mask.

I think we'll find that most powers won't be a physics problem where protdermis is involved. At least, a problem we could answer with absolute certainty. The only one who could give us a solid answer is Greg. I, however, still believe that platform flight is achievable to every telekinetic capable of manipulating solid matter. Toa with energy based elements (with the exception of gravity and magnetism) would probably require a tool like Vakama's jet pack to fly. Air we know has flight as a capability, water is the only one I'm still questioning. Not that it's necessarily important, just something of interest, I was looking through here, your first reference source, and found this.

Well, technically what I'm talking about is converting the EE into kinetic energy, so that it is no longer available to turn into its element. This is done anyways to some extent with normal telekinesis of elements. Anywho, the math of it doesn't NEED to be more, and likely that detail is not something Greg would bother including one way or the other (unless he agrees adding a cost to self-flight is wise to avoid being overpowered and help explain its apparent rarity). But it would get around the "invisible arm" analogy. The analogy would be more like a hovercraft. Also, Toa have the ability to charge objects up with EE, and command it to trigger later. So technically they can leave EE unmaterialized for a while, but that's not really what I meant; I just meant that it wouldn't be like a rocket blasting physical stones downward. And that's where my confusion came in, I didn't realize the EE was being converted to kinetic energy. To call it EE was misleading to me, when I think of EE being used, I think of element creation. I was ignorant of EE's role in the manipulation aspect. It's actually just basic Newtonian physics, which have always been shown true in Bionicle. If you defy gravity, there's something physics-wise enabling it; it's not "just magic." The something isn't always defined by Greg, but it's reasonable to theorize among fans to help show how things could be plausible, to aid believability and thus enjoyment. Point taken. You're kinda overthinking this. Trying to figure out what Greg meant is basically what we're talking about here. Please, tell me something I don't know. I'll rewrite a sentence four or five times, sometimes deleting entire paragraphs before I make a post. Normally, just to wind up finding my foot in my mouth. Awesome emoticon, it's so perfect for the moment, I just had to use it. Yes, but that doesn't actually explain it. All I'm saying. I'm saying all of that, but also how it might work. Bottom line -- IMO it would be wise for Greg to say that elemental platform self-flight costs a bit more EE than normal element telekinesis, but if he doesn't, that's fine too. Either way, we do know that manipulation of existing elements without making more does spend some EE, so my reasoning is sound regardless. And that is what I didn't understand. I had forgotten that when the Toa Nuva lost their EE, that they lost their ability to manipulate their element, thus EE is needed for manipulation. Oh, explain, definitely! Way more fun. There's the invisible arm of energy analogy that we've been discussing here; this is the running popular theory for the Kanohi Matatu and Psionics telekinesis, because it helps explain easily why neither can lift themselves. However, the same theory has been applied to elemental self-kinesis until now, so maybe it needs rethunk? How does this sound, the telekinetic imbues a physical object with kinetic energy and controls the direction of this energy with his or her mind? Is the inablilty of direct self-telekinetic flight limited to Toa and users of the Kanohi Matatu or does it apply to every telekinetic? If it's exclusive to the Toa and Kanohi Matatu users, perhaps the Great Beings designed it that way for similar reasons it is not possible for Toa of Iron. If self-telekinesis is incapable of being done by any telekinetic, then the "invisible arm" analogy works fine for me. Considering that BZPower is probably the only place I know where people even consider talking like this, I'm really not surprised. Most people I know don't have the attention span or the patience to engage in these kind of lengthy discussions. I'm enjoying it, it's quite refreshing. Your understanding and knowledge of the physics involved obviously surpasses mine, which is rudimentary at its best, and to compensate I simplified it to fit my understanding at the time. So the more or better I understand the less confused/confusing I'll be. Most don't like to talk about things beyond their knowledge or understanding, myself included. I, at least, like to give it a try, whether I look like fool for doing so or not. (Waits for foot to land in mouth.)

That's an extremely good point. If Greg gave the nod to that as the explanation this would all be resolved easily, with the possible exception of it still seeming odd that Toa don't use platform flight all the time. Add to this -- maybe elemental control of your own body is physically dangerous to yourself; if your control slips a little you might accidentally decapitate yourself. Platform flight may not be the most practical method for getting around. A flying boulder would be a pretty big target for enemies, and getting sucker-punched in the air is the last thing I would want. The only problem with directly elementally controlling yourself being dangerous is still saying that it can be done although with the risk for self-injury. That's a better reasoning as to why they don't, rather than as to why they can't. Then it begs the question, does it matter whether their control is direct or indirect? Or is there something exclusive to Toa of Iron that prevents them from directly controlling the metal on them? Which would still allow them to manipulate their armor, an idea I love, but the Toa has to remove the armor first. Naturally. Isn't that always the case? It's more "Bionicle physics". Comic-book can mean a lot of different things depending on the story world in that book, and Bionicle is not really limited to comics anyways. There is some fictional physics, with a base of Earth physics. And basic gravity and kinetics always apply in Bionicle, so if something overcomes them, it is, as Greg said, science not understood yet (unless it's understood lol), not just nonsense magic. The "story world" would be Bionicle, of course. Fictional science by any other name, whether you call it magic, energon, protodermis, or some other "unknown" technology is still fictional, it just has to be believable enough to be accepted by the audience. Earth physics need not apply. Why leave the energy unmaterialized? Why not create just a pillar of said element and move it along the ground? Who says Toa even have the ability to leave EE unmaterialized? I don't think your theory would work. It relies too much on details that haven't been said to be true or capable. Bionicle is a fictional story with fictional physics where the only true rule is what Greg says can and can't be done. My theory about flight achieved through the Toa's element-specific telekinetic power, the psychic manipulation of the physical, is both believable story-wise and true. It's a power we know the Toa have, we know they're capable of levitating their elements through this power, and there is a in-story example of it being achieved. Shall we then try to explain how the power of telekinesis (both element-specific and non-specific) works or just accept that it does?

Think less real-life physics and more comic book physics.The pull of gravity is fought by the Toa's mental control of the element, simple as that. Good point. In that circumstance. What about Onewa? Were there ever any times we can think of when flight would have been more efficient for him? As I recall, most of Onewa's time as a Toa Metru was spent in Metru Nui which is full of tall buildings and other structures he could more easily swing from (like Spider-Man) or he was underground. The only time I can think of would be during the Toa Metru's search of the Island of Mata Nui, but then again, we dont know for certain how he got around on the island. I'm honestly against Nuva "powers", especially when it comes to elemental control. I believe any Toa could do it, but not without practice, and it would definitely be easier for a more experienced Toa. And as for Greg's answer, you found no quote that explicitly shoots down the flying elemental surfboard theory. Not sure I follow you here, but maybe you misunderstood me. I was saying, Pohatu could be flying with his jetpack, while elementally lifting the airtight sphere of stone around him. And Photok, standing on the floor of this flying room, would be lifted by Pohatu's power. We know that telekinesis can lift others; his not being alone was in fact my point. It's the self that is the problem, re: Greg's answers on telekinesis itself and on elemental self-telekinesis in the case of Toa of Iron. Looking it over again, I did misunderstand you. Regardless, Pohatu would still be inside the stone and levitating it and himself by extension. I'm not a fan of Greg's answer on self-telekinetic flight. However, let's not assume that a Toa of Iron lifting himself via a metal platform is the same as lifting himself by his armor. Either way, he'd still have to climb/fly down. Which we never saw and thus have no way of being certain of how he got down. The problem is, it should, then, also be easier for a Toa of Iron to lift themselves simply by telekinetically controlling their metal armor. But Greg said no, they can't. You're talking about controlling every piece of armor on a Toa's body versus a single piece of metal he's standing on? I'm not saying he couldn't, but not as easily as the single piece of metal. Let's not mince words. He's flying. (If the apparent meaning is accurate.) You're just talking about the method of flying, but all other flying Toa are using a method too. A bird flies with wings, just as a human flies with wings -- just not built-in wings. Well, yeah. But this method allows even a Toa of Iron to achieve flight without contradicting Greg's answer.

Photok started moving up, without understanding how, and had to figure out a cause. (The next sentence I left out identifies the cause, apparently, as the rock lifting them.) If he was using his own jetpack he would have to activate it himself intentionally. Although... I suppoooooose, the rock would lift Photok by my reasoning, so I suppose it could still be explained consistently if Pohatu alone was using his jetpack. I dunno... Except Pohatu wasn't alone. And any attempt to fly would either take too long or expose Pohatu and Photok to the mutatagenic swamp water. That makes a ton of sense, yeah. But what about when they were in a hurry, like seeking the Great Disks while Morby was causing chaos by the second? Nuju physically climbed to his, but a platform or the like could have been safer. The balance thing could be fixed by a sphere with some sighting/breathing holes in it, like a whiffle ball. Admittedly, the power drain logic still makes sense there, though. And we know they drained all the way in the fight with Morby, so it did matter there. I dunno. Maybe he didn't climb all the way but went to the nearest window, too. Technically speaking, Nuju slid and fell off a roof and grabbed an icicle that contained his Great Disk, no real climbing involved. Also, Nuju's first attempt to use an ice slide had failed miserably and instead he relied on jumping from the rooftops and making use of his crystal spikes during his search for the Ko-Metru Great Disk, not to mention that he and Whenua had to remain mindful of the Keerakh lurking in the area. A floating whiffle ball of ice would be way out of his league for a brand new Toa of Ice, especially under those conditions. "The Toa felt the slightest decrease in resistance to their movement, which told him they were out of the water and back in the air." If anything, it is easier in the air. But that was a small effect, and we know there's a limit to how much they can make at a time. This was described as a mountain of rock (on BS01 anyways). To lift that, I'd expect it would take a while. Then again, we don't know how much of the rock Pohatu fused. In fact come to think of it, it's quite possible only a small spheroid was actually being lifted and a pillar was being made by rearranging the other rock around it, with no new rock being made from EE at all. Only Photok, Pohatu, and the fused rock surrounding them were rising. The book makes no mention of a pillar of rock or anything like one and I would imagine it is easier and quicker to mentally lift just one big, hollow rock than move bunch of smaller rocks at the same time. I won't say Pohatu can fly this way, cause he wouldn't be flying, the rock would be flying, Pohatu would just be riding it. The same way you're riding in an airplane, but the airplane is the one actually flying. And flight is what we're talking about here. How about we just call it a limited form of flight?

In BIONICLE Legends #11: The Final Battle, after Gorast uses her Kanohi Felnas to disrupt Pohatu's elemental power, he and Photok sink down into the mud. Pohatu then fuses the stones together, levitates the stone and thus himself and Photok out of the swamp. I believe any Toa can find a way to use his or her elemental power to achieve some method of transportation, but I don't believe any Toa can achieve true flight without being aided by a Tool or Mask. Even BS01 says that Magnetism and Gravity achieve only a limited form of flight.

I don't like the gravity detection because it seems extremely useless except in a low gravity environment like outer space. A good sense of balance can be learned and is more of an ability than a trait, not to mention that Le-Matoran already have this kind of ability through their natural athleticism trait. In BIONICLE Legends 5: Inferno, it's implied that Toa of Water have a natural resistance to water pressure that's greater than others, I would imagine that this trait is more Element-specific than Toa-specific. And most comic book characters that are pressure resistant tend to be incredibly strong like the Po-Matoran or durable like the Fe-Matoran. Gravity manipulation is too much control for a Matoran and would be better suited for a Turaga of Gravity and to make a Ba-Matoran lighter in any way seems counter-intuitive to me, making them more like Matoran of Anti-Gravity. So I voted for naturally heavier. Buildings and vehicles that have to be reinforced to handle the weight, the notion of Ba-Matoran being difficult to move unless they want to, both literally and metaphorically is way more interesting to me.

I still don't understand how Av-Matoran are supposed to be more likely to become Toa, but there had never been a Toa of Light until Takanuva.

One of the purposes of writing this is to explain the past of the Skakdi with three in particular; Dronik; intelligent and scheming, but insane with a delight in seeing others in pain. Zaktan; the ruthless future self-appointed leader of the Piraka. Lupike; the "muscle" of the group and the most skilled in combat of the three. The story begins in the time before Makuta Spiriah's experiments on the Skakdi began. Together they are hired to steal important research from the Brotherhood regarding the Skakdi species. With the research information, the Skakdi species can be altered to become a powerful fighting force. While the research exists, the job itself is a set-up by the Dark Hunters to capture the three Skakdi for the reward placed on them by the Brotherhood. Should they succeed, the Dark Hunters gain important information and the reward for the Skakdi's capture. Should they fail; the Dark Hunters merely gain the reward. However, the three succeed in stealing the research, but Dronik, not wanting to split the profits, betrays Zaktan and Lupike. Lupike is believed to be dead and Dronik and Zaktan are captured, but before his capture, Dronik destroys the research. The Dark Hunters receive the reward placed on the Skakdi. Dronik is sent to Makuta Sinosis for the extraction of any information the Skakdi might remember from the research. Finding nothing and intruiged by the Skakdi's love for inflicting pain on others, Makuta Sinosis teaches Dronik the ways of torture and interrogation then sells him to the Dark Hunters. Without the fundamental research, Spiriah's experiments on the Skakdi species fail and he is exiled. Zaktan is sent to work in a proto mine until he is later found and recruited by the Shadowed One. Lupike wakes to find himself on the shores of Kamas Nui with a badly fragmented memory and no recollection of how he got there. The Skakdi is found by the local Matoran and amazingly enough, becomes a leading figure on the island, forming an impressive Matoran military. Just after the Great Cataclysm and the start of the Brotherhood/ Dark Hunter, reports of the death of Makuta Sinosis reach the Dark Hunters and a team of Dark Hunters is sent to investigate. Dronik, having been trained by the Makuta, is made a part of the team. After several confrontations with the island's new Toa team, Dronik is captured and he and Lupike meet. The encounter restores Lupike's memories and Dronik reveals the knowledge that he, Lupike, and Zaktan were actually the first and only Skakdi to be altered through the process described by the research they had stolen so many years ago. He continues to relate how they had killed the Makuta who mutated them and escaped, leaving only the research information as any clue to the Makuta's experiments. The Brotherhood placed a bounty on the three Skakdi for killing a Makuta without realizing their value. Matuka Sinosis having faked his death and infiltrated the Matoran society, overhears Dronik's story and reveals himself to capture the two Skakdi and reverse-engineer the mutation process. However, through the combined forces of the Toa Kamas and the Dark Hunter team, the Makuta is stopped and killed. I'd appreciate any thoughts on this, especially towards any possible conflicts with the canon story. Thanks!

I believe if Zaktan is still alive, it is because Teridax faked Zaktan's death much like he had with Miserix, using illusions to make witnesses believe he's dead, trapped, a painting on a wall, whatever Teridax wanted him to be. But that would only work if Zaktan was needed to create the Skakdi Fusion. Fish can survive out of water for a limited time and Zaktan would not need to be out for long. Also, before his pit mutation, Zaktan was capable of flight in his protodite form, and the mutation didn't revert his protodite form, so it would make sense that he would still be able fly.

What I love most about these is their simplicity, you really captured the essence of these two. Your first Prime is the best of the two, Breez's headgear is perfect for him, and combined with the coloration, it really sells it for me. Evo's would be okay, but I think his is too wide and the "ears" just aren't pointy enough.Now, your second Megatron is absolutely awesome. The red hero head really stands out against the white Rhino helmet and the larger cannon is great. To be honest, I hadn't even seen the cannon on the first one. And the purple hero core is a good stand-in for a decepticon symbol.Overall, a completely amazing pair.

It's been a while since I've posted anything, so I dug out my camera and took some pictures of this little beauty. Front Back Underneath(Landing gear down) Underneath(Landing gear up) Side Enjoy.

I think the best way to compare the two different eating methods is by looking at them as batteries. Eating the food through their mouths would be like using disposable batteries, where once the charge is used up, the battery is worthless and must be replaced with a new one. Absorbing the energy through their hands would be like using a rechargeable battery, when the charge is depleted, they simply recharge it by using a charger.Both methods work, so it's really just a matter of preference and/or availability. However, it's more likely that any organic food would be eaten and any absorption of energy would be done at an energy well, like the one mentioned in Brothers In Arms.Of course, we really should consider the cultures we're talking about here. The Matoran come from a land with more sentient species than you can shake a stick at and the Agori just recently witnessed a giant robot death match and their broken desert world brought back together and returned to its original environment. I don't think a difference in eating preferences is going to be that big of a deal to either culture.