toa kopaka4372

Off the top of my head, here's a list of the characters we know have been revived and those who are permanently dead, owing to cause of death (incineration, cranial damage, death outside the Matoran Universe, etc.): Revived: Lhikan Hydraxon Mavrah Botar Nocturn Maybe Revived, but unconfirmed: Ihu Jovan Permanently Dead: Kodan Nikila Naho Karzahni (Plant) Nidhiki Krekka Sidorak Reysa Matoro Ancient Carapar Tridax Spiriah Kojol Antroz Vamprah Chirox Mutran Icarax Krika Gorast Bitil Makuta of Stelt Karzahni (Being) Tren Krom Certavus Teridax

Ouch. This hurts. This hurts a lot. I never really got into G2, but I did try to give it a chance and I was eager to like it. I don't think its first year held a candle to G1's, and as a whole it just never compared...however, I knew it had just started and held out hope that the story would improve and eventually become the brilliant epic that G1 ended up being, warts and all. Besides, it was still BIONICLE, and I had waited a long five years for its return. So I bought the sets (which were consistently amazing and better than most of G1's, though they can't compare in nostalgic value), bought the books, and bought the graphic novels. I'm still watching JtO. And honestly, it really felt like 2016 was a step in the right direction. The second graphic novel provided some much needed backstory and helped make Okoto and its islanders feel a little more real, and I thought the conflict between Ekimu and Makuta was a great retelling of the Mata Nui-Teridax one from the original, keeping the essentials while still offering a fresh take on the classic tale. The character writing/world building still lacked, especially compared to G1's greatness, but the second year, boosted by a BIONICLE TV show (finally!) and fun graphic novels, really showed that this new line was capable of building a better story than that portrayed in the fun-and-cute-but-still-mediocre animations that formed the bulk of 2015's story. G2 could have become something. It could have eventually stepped out of the massive shadow of its 10-year-giant of a predecessor, no mere feat. But now it won't, and that's just heartbreaking. It's easy to rage and criticize how G2 was (mis)handled, and I do think it could have been better. But that doesn't take away from the passionate work of the new BIONICLE team, who dedicated themselves to it for the past two years and now have to deal with the unceremonious cancellation of their project. I do agree with some who say that the effort/creativity/imagination that went into the construction of G2's story often wasn't communicated in the final product we got. For example, the bios of the Toa Okoto paint vibrant images of these characters, again honoring the original Toa Mata while deepening their characters in a way that G1 wouldn't do until later in its run. And yet that depth never really came across in the animations, books, or JtO. Its baffling. Same goes for the world of Okoto itself. Abundant work and imagination, and yet so much of what was written in guides and on websites just didn't show up in the primary story vehicles. I get the impression of disorganization when regarding G2 as a whole. G1 suffered from some of that in its later years, but that was after it had already established itself as a quality line, a formidable seller, and a popular product. A line in its infancy, as G2 was, couldn't afford to make such mistakes. But alas. I'm still trying to come to terms with this. I'm not as devastated as the first time around, partially due to lesser investment in G2 and age, but it's still pretty sad to see the latest incarnation of a line that defined my entire childhood (and beyond) come to such a quick end, after all of the excitement two years ago. I suppose I'll go back to what I did during the five-year absence of BIONICLE: reliving the legend by rereading it, rewatching it, replaying it, and discussing it, this time with the addition of an extra two years worth of content that I'm grateful to have, regardless of my criticisms. If nothing else, G2 allowed me to re-experience the joy of buying a new BIONICLE set or new BIONICLE book as a college student, and for that I am thankful. So long, G2. Until G3.

Those were presumably Rahi though. I do not believe Rahi were sent up to the Red Star. EDIT: Heck, they don't have to be Rahi. They could have been organic beasts native to Aqua Magna, since the Pit was above the dormant Mata Nui robot. -NotS In addition to the above points, Matoro and the other Toa Mahri spent much of their time around Mahri Nui, in the ocean of Aqua Magna, which is beyond the bounds of the Matoran Universe; the Red Star does not revive biomechanical beings that die outside of the MU. So, all the Mahri Nui Matoran that died, for example, remained permanently dead. Matoro would have had plenty of corpses to use. Of course, as mentioned above, the important point is that Rahi are not revived and so their bodies are left behind, so Matoro would have had plenty of corpses to use even if he had been inside the Matoran Universe.

No problem! Glad to hear it.

Found it, top of the page (on my computer at least): https://community.lego.com/t5/LEGO-General/Chat-with-Greg-Farshtey/td-p/6605180/highlight/true/page/684

I'm not disputing that the organic and mechanical components of the bodies of MU inhabitants will eventually break down, leading to death; the point is that it hasn't happened yet. Helryx, the very first Toa, is just fine despite being around since the very beginning of the MU's existence. That tells us that the normal lifespan of an MU inhabitants exceeds 100,00 years. No one from there has lived long enough to die of old age yet, so that would have been a non-issue throughout MU history. You mentioned earlier that it breaks suspension of disbelief for them to be capable of lasting that long, but I don't see how that is the case; there's no reason to assume that organic and mechanical material in the BIONICLE universe behaves identically to ours. If the story says they can last that long and remains consistent with that assertion, then that's how it is. The inhabitants of Bara Magna are mostly organic, and yet Gresh, who is older than Mata Nui himself, is considered "young" among the Glatorian. One can only imagine how old you'd have to be on BM to die of age, and that's with people who have almost no mechanical components. Throughout 10 years of G1 story, we never saw someone actually being put in a grave or visiting a grave of a deceased person, and I recall Greg bringing this up back in 2011 around the time of the Red Star reveal, which was partially meant to explain what happened to dead bodies since the story always avoided the topic. As I mentioned above, though, we do know that Rahi didn't disappear (no RS transport for them) and so had to be buried, and we saw the Toa Hordika burying a bunch of dead Visorak in Challenge of the Hordika, so MUians understood and implemented the concept of graves, just not necessarily for themselves. As such, seeing mentions of them in the story isn't that odd. If I recall correctly, the Red Star broke down because Gaardus messed up the system during his time there. It was working fine before then (granted "before then" wasn't all that much).

Wonder how that held up when the guy reappeared two months later with the same mask and job. The guy wouldn't reappear. The Red Star malfunctioned very early in its existence, so that the people sent there never returned (hence the reason the Kestora started killing people on it in order to not "run out of room").

A topic defending the decanonization of romantic love in G1? Never thought I'd see the day. A few points, most nitpicky: 1) MU inhabitants can love just fine. Its romantic love specifically that they cannot feel (yet?). We see our beloved MU characters expressing love throughout the story all the time: love for friends, love for home, love of good, love of evil, etc. It's a distinction that's usually assumed in these kind of discussions, but I think it'd be nice to be more explicit /nitpicky. 2) I know Greg is the scapegoat to blame for the non-canon-ness of romance, and I know it's become a bit of a joke at this point, but I wonder if the general tendency to credit him for the lack of canon romance in the MU is yet another example of him bearing criticism that should be directed at the story team as a whole simply because he was its most prominent member. It's kind of unfair too, since he gave us canon couples/romance stories in Sahmad's Tale and with Kiina when he didn't have to. This isn't directed at you, by the way, just general commentary on attitudes I see in the fandom. 3) This is a nice way of looking at it, and I appreciate you writing this out. You might be interested to know that Greg has basically confirmed what you're saying in terms of Matoran evolving to acquire romantic love. I can't pull it up right now, but a while ago Greg suggested in a Lego Message Board answer (on the ask Greg topic, I'd recommend people check it out from time to time) that the Matoran, based on their interactions with the Agori, could develop romantic feelings. He basically left the door open for that to happen on Spherus Magna in the future, which is probably as close as he'll ever come to making MU romance canon. Kind of surprised that doesn't get brought up more often (though it's likely because so few are aware of it).

somehow. Eh... Not all beings. Most or many, but not all. Some beings DO age, but those beings aren't known in anything more than the Dark Hunters. yeah i was adding "somehow" cuz it suspends disbelief that they don't die of age, since death by age is about how well your body can hold up, and given the Toa rotted apart in their own canisters, i don't think Bionicle characters have systems capable of 10000+ years of constant labor. Pretty sure it was specifies that the Toa Mata rotted away from lack of activity. Most people in the MU would never have found themselves in situations where they remained inactive and immobile for tens of thousands of years, so I don't think that really serves as evidence that their bodies can't remain functional for that long. To answer the OP's question, we know that graves exist in the MU due to various references for them, but most graves don't seem to have been for actual inhabitants like the Matoran and the like. Rahi, for example, are not transported to the Red Star, so their bodies are left behind and rot away. This is consistent with all of the Rahi carcasses we have seen throughout the story (dead Rahi throughout Maze of Shadows, dead Visorak in Reign of Shadows, etc.). Also, the Toa Hordika bury a ton of dead Visorak in Challenge of the Hordika, so the concept of burial was known to them likely as a result of Rahi not disappearing upon death. In places like Mata Nui and Voya Nui (after the GC) where the Red Star wouldn't have reached (since they're outside the MU), normal Matoran and the like would have been buried as well. For the most part, though, most sapient beings were not buried since they were transported to the Star. I recall Greg saying at some point that there were some mystical beliefs that they had become one with Mata Nui, or something of the sort.

Thought this might be interesting to drop off here (a thread about a year old also started by fishers; it has some nice posts): http://www.bzpower.com/board/topic/18374-themes-of-the-bionicle-story/

If I recall correctly, Greg confirmed the Red Star only works within the interior of the Matoran Universe (that is, within Mata Nui's robot body). Since Mata Nui (the island) was outside of the Matoran Universe, the Red Star wouldn't have been able to revive any of its inhabitants. So probably not.

Yeah, Tuma was a superb character in the books and serials with a surprising amount of complexity; The Legend Reborn film really did him a disservice. Greg does his best to explain Tuma's odd incompetence/silliness in the novelization, with some degree of success. If you want to find some way to reconcile the TLR Tuma with the book/serials Tuma, the novelization is your best bet.

This ties into my biggest problem with the animations, which are the villains. Hands down the worst part of the webisodes, and of the 2015 story as a whole. They were villains because the story said so, and were presented in the most bland, cliche, generic manner possible. To top it all of, they got approximately zero characterization (which is especially disappointing in light of the decent characterization the webisodes managed to give the Toa).

I do have to say this is probably my opinion on the subject too, they build them up as being so powerfull with all those rahkshi powers n whatnot (actually, habing all the rahkshi powers is one of the few things i dislike about the makuta but whatever) and then when they show the eight makuta in karda-nui they're practically pushovers! I just warmed up to the karda-nui Makuta pretty quickly because they're vampires, bionicle vampires. u: I feel it's worth pointing out that the 2008 story explicitly acknowledged and explained this. The Makuta were only holding back because they needed the Toa Nuva alive to awaken Mata Nui so that the Plan could succeed. Once Mata Nui was awake, the Makuta could have killed them without issue, but of course the Energy Storms made that impossible. I recall the Toa Nuva wondering throughout that year about the fact that they were still alive and that the Codrex still existed (and therefore the key to awakening Mata Nui) despite the Makuta's power and obvious capability of destroying them and their hopes of awakening the Great Spirit.

Signed. This whole thing is pretty fun. I doubt anything will come of this particular effort, but hey, it would be really cool if something did.