Comic illustration quality

[Sir Kohran]

Looking through the comics, I couldn't help noticing that over the years, the characters' colours seem to lose a lot of richness, the backgrounds some complexity, and the figures seem to become increasingly wonky and out of proportion. Does it look this way to others?

 

Just to begin with an obvious example, compare Vakama in late 03 to late 07:

 

Edited June 14, 2013 by Sir Kohran

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Well, the artist for 2006-2007 had kind of a goofy and hard-to-look-at style.

[Toatapio Nuva]

Gosh, not the 07 Vakama again.

 

That... that just looks so horrible.

 

To answer your question, yes, the quality did become poorer in later years, because not so much effort was put into the line after 2005.

 

Also, Sayger has to be the worst Bionicle comic illustrator of all time.

[Aanchir]

Yeah, Stuart Sayger (the artist from 2006-2007 and also for some comics in 2009 exclusive to the graphic novels) had a very expressive style that tended to be heavily stylized compared to the sets. The earlier and later comic artists tended to stick much closer to the look of the sets.As far as colors are concerned, BIONICLE had a lot of different colorists, and as such the way the characters were colored could vary heavily. But I didn't notice any across-the-board shift to less rich colors. In fact, I think most of the 2009 and 2010 comics had much richer colors than many other years. But it's all according to the preferences of the particular artists and colorists, really. The 2008 to 2010 comics also tend to have the characters very well-proportioned, so there was no across-the-board shift.

[Sumiki]

I always thought the Sayger era was the most different. The early comics are similar to the later comics, with the '06-'07 stuff being the less set-accurate. Sayger's always seemed a polarizing figure - he's either at the top of bottom of the list, but never in the middle.

[Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen]

I got the chance to speak with Sayger a year or so ago, and his style was actually brought up. Turns out that Lego wanted him to draw in that certain style, as it was different, it was a new style as Lego was taking Bionicle in a new direction in 2006. So the reason it is like that is because it is grittier to fit the story better.

 

[LewaLew]

Your example can be explained by one name: Sayger.

 

His style was all his own, and it's all a matter of taste in that regard--not a matter of quality.

 

Post-Sayger, the colors were actually really good, I thought. Leigh Gallagher's art reminded me a lot of Carlos D'Anda, my favorite artist, in that the colors were so rich, and the characters went back to being based more closely to the sets. Pop Mhan was similar in that regard.

 

Sayger's pretty much the only one. He's not someone I would have wanted doing the entirety of BIONICLE's comics run, but he was well suited to the darker tone and return to mystery that was brought to the theme in 2006 and 2007. Any other years, and I think his art would have been out of place.

 

To answer your question, yes, the quality did become poorer in later years, because not so much effort was put into the line after 2005.

I don't think that was the case at all. If anything, more effort was put into BIONICLE after '05, particularly in 2006. Story serials, BIONICLE Heroes, Voya Nui Online Game, Glatorian Arena, the invention of the Inika building parts, the eventual abandonment of playsets in favor of Technic vehicles (which, in my opinion, are superior, and at the very least have the right masks on the right characters), and of course, The Legend Reborn. Sayger's art was a stylistic decision--not a lazy, money-saving one.

Edited June 14, 2013 by LewaLew

[Dralcax]

I liked Sayger's art for the most part. I can't say I liked how he handled Vakama (I barely recognized him), but for the most part, his art was amazing, and really captured the feel of those years.

[LordofBionicles]

Apart from Sayger having a different style, it is also highly possible that he didn´t count with a Turaga Vakama set from which he could base on when he had to draw him.

[Toatapio Nuva]

If anything, more effort was put into BIONICLE after '05, particularly in 2006. Story serials, BIONICLE Heroes, Voya Nui Online Game, Glatorian Arena, the invention of the Inika building parts, the eventual abandonment of playsets in favor of Technic vehicles (which, in my opinion, are superior, and at the very least have the right masks on the right characters), and of course, The Legend Reborn. Sayger's art was a stylistic decision--not a lazy, money-saving one.

 

Yeah, I should've included 2006 there... so after 2006 there was less and less effort put into Bionicle.

 

The serials were not a sign of working on the line: rather, they were an easy to way to slowly push responsibility of the entire story to Greg and free the other story team members to focus on other lines. This was a factor that eventually led to Bionicle's downfall.

 

BIONICLE Heroes was indeed a big project, but seeing the game itself, the game was not done with much care. It ignored canon in every possible way and made it a generci shoot-it-all game. But yes, it did require an investment from LEGO. They were more interested in making a game than telling the Bionicle story, though.

 

Voya Nui Online Game, same thing as with Bionicle Heroes. It turned out a nice game... and that was the last. After 2006, all games followed the same format. Glatorian Arena was not a very hard-to-make game, just in case you are thinking it is. Also remember that it was the only game in 2009, next to some promotional ones on other sites.

 

Ah, the Inika build. In 2006 it was a move of brilliance. After that it became a way for TLG to put little effort into Bionicle and use the same build over and over again.

 

The vehicles... can't really comment on those since I never got any myself.

 

Don't even get me started on The Legend Reborn. Greg was fully responsible for the production. Don't forget that 2009 was supposed to be a reboot, but it failed miserably.

[Just A Dot]

Some of Sayger's art looks great, but that Vakama is ugly. I liked his style. The edgier stuff fit in really well.

[Zestanor]

He drew him just fine on that image. I bet he didn't have a good reference for Vakama.

[Sir Kohran]

I bet he didn't have a good reference for Vakama.

 

How could he not? All the set images were available on fansites and databases.

 

And the image in question clearly shows the same parts that are in the set, so he obviously knew what Vakama looked like. He just drew him rather poorly.

[Aanchir]

Ah, the Inika build. In 2006 it was a move of brilliance. After that it became a way for TLG to put little effort into Bionicle and use the same build over and over again.

I would correct that and say the Inika build was a way for TLG to stop wasting effort on overspecialized torso designs that would be obsolete in a year or two and to actually stick with one that worked better than any of its predecessors.Let's also not forget that of all the series of sets using the Inika build, not a single series was as repetitive as the Bohrok, Bohrok Kal, Rahkshi, Vahki, Toa Metru, Visorak, Toa Hordika, or even Toa Nuva and Toa Mata. With the exception of the versions of Pohatu and (arguably) Onua in the first two series of Toa, all of these sets were "clone builds", with hardly any meaningful changes in construction between them. The Barraki signalled the end of clone builds in canister set series, and even the most basic Inika builds in later years had unique elements to their construction that set them apart from the other sets in their series and from other previous sets. I'd argue that a lot more effort had to go into canister set designs from 2007 than into many of the previous series, where the design strategy was typically "design one set and change its colors and weapons five times".

The vehicles... can't really comment on those since I never got any myself.

The vehicle sets from both 2008 and 2009 were stellar. So were the 2007 titan sets and the 2008 Takanuva.

Don't even get me started on The Legend Reborn. Greg was fully responsible for the production. Don't forget that 2009 was supposed to be a reboot, but it failed miserably.

"Greg was fully responsible for the production"? Umm, no, not at all. Not one bit. Greg was little more than a consultant for BIONICLE: The Legend Reborn, as with every other BIONICLE movie. The screenplay was handled by a professional screenwriter, and plenty of other voices at LEGO had input (Lena Dixen, BIONICLE's theme coordinator since at least 2002, was an executive producer). Greg didn't even have any credited role in the crew as far as I can tell.Let's also not forget that after 2005 there were frequent guidebooks filled with new content, four BIONICLE books for young readers with brand-new stories and professionally-drawn illustrations (compare that to most LEGO young readers books, which tend to rely on stock images of the toys and screenshots from various media), five promotional songs made downloadable for free on the BIONICLE website, and of course the same brilliant creative direction from the ADVANCE agency that there had been since the theme was first being conceived (check Faber Files, look at the post-2006 content, and tell me how that's any less effort than earlier years). 2008 also had the best CGI web videos of any year, telling more or less the entire story for that year in a condensed, cinematic form (way better than the 2005 "Search for the Mask of Light" animations).Overall it is extremely demeaning to trivialize the amount of effort that went into any creative work, as far as I'm concerned (in the very least you didn't utter the "looks like a ten-year-old could have made it" slur). 2008 was perhaps the most triumphant story year for BIONICLE in my opinion, finally bringing together seven years of foreshadowing into a revelation that to the majority of fans was completely unexpected. 2007 had some of the best sets of any year, finally eliminating clone builds from canister sets and introducing perhaps the most ingenious Matoran design ever. BIONICLE may have suffered in the eyes of some fans in later years, but no matter how much they might want to believe it, the creators never stopped trying their very best to craft a quality product with quality media tie-ins. Edited June 16, 2013 by Aanchir: Rachira of Time

[Bfahome]

I like the more stylized… style used in 2006.

 

It departed from the often frankly blocky look of set-accuracy and made the Piraka seem much more skeletal and villainous in appearance, which helped set the mood much better than the advertising campaign.

 

It also worked for the Barraki, though not quite as consistently given their different aesthetics.

 

As for Vakama, I actually prefer the one on the right. The '03 one looks like a box with limbs and a head, which is what the set boiled down to no matter how interesting it was. It's like having an emote-off between Keanu Reeves and anyone else.

[Toa Zaz]

The problem with Sayger is that he can draw stylized, dramatic art, but oftentimes he became really lazy and stops bothering with good lighting, coloring, proportions, detail, etc. In my opinion his first Bionicle comic had much better lighting and looked a lot better than the ones after. This and this and this sure looked a whole lot better than this or this.

 

Interestingly, from what I've seen of his non-Bionicle art the simplicity doesn't seem to be an issue. Maybe he just decided to concentrate more effort in those areas than the ones about Lego robots.

[Aanchir]

The problem with Sayger is that he can draw stylized, dramatic art, but oftentimes he became really lazy and stops bothering with good lighting, coloring, proportions, detail, etc. In my opinion his first Bionicle comic had much better lighting and looked a lot better than the ones after. This and this and this sure looked a whole lot better than this or this. Interestingly, from what I've seen of his non-Bionicle art the simplicity doesn't seem to be an issue. Maybe he just decided to concentrate more effort in those areas than the ones about Lego robots.

Incidentally, lighting and coloring typically are NOT the responsibility of a comic's primary artist. Separate colorists are typically employed. Sayger's comics were an exception. But even he had a separate colorist for All Our Sins Remembered, one of the exclusive comics from the graphic novels. This may be why you feel the Ignition comics had weaker lighting and colors.At the same time, there were many well-colored, well-lit scenes in the Ignition comics. It would be just as easy to cherry-pick a handful of less cinematic panels from the pre-Ignition comics and a handful of the more impressive panels from Sayger's comics. There are loads of amazing Ignition panels in this gallery (consider this, this, this, and this). Edited June 16, 2013 by Aanchir: Rachira of Time

[Just A Dot]

He drew him just fine on that image. I bet he didn't have a good reference for Vakama.

 

Dude, that is an amazing image.

 

I remember hating the newer art style as a kid, but it really has grown on me.

[Sir Kohran]

 

He drew him just fine on that image. I bet he didn't have a good reference for Vakama.

 

Dude, that is an amazing image.

 

I remember hating the newer art style as a kid, but it really has grown on me.

 

 

What I find odd is that in the top right of this close-up panel, the features on the staff (consistent with the set) disappear in the subsequent full appearance I posted at the start, in which Vakama instead looks like he's holding a large and very bent fork.

[Just A Dot]

 

 

He drew him just fine on that image. I bet he didn't have a good reference for Vakama.

 

Dude, that is an amazing image.

 

I remember hating the newer art style as a kid, but it really has grown on me.

 

 

What I find odd is that in the top right of this close-up panel, the features on the staff (consistent with the set) disappear in the subsequent full appearance I posted at the start, in which Vakama instead looks like he's holding a large and very bent fork.

 

The only detail on the staff there is the two red loopies (for lack of a better word), which appear in the image at the top.

[Sir Kohran]

 

 

 

He drew him just fine on that image. I bet he didn't have a good reference for Vakama.

 

Dude, that is an amazing image.

 

I remember hating the newer art style as a kid, but it really has grown on me.

 

 

What I find odd is that in the top right of this close-up panel, the features on the staff (consistent with the set) disappear in the subsequent full appearance I posted at the start, in which Vakama instead looks like he's holding a large and very bent fork.

 

The only detail on the staff there is the two red loopies (for lack of a better word), which appear in the image at the top.

 

 

Those two loops are too thin to be the protruding parts in the more distant view, which are clearly meant to be the solid outline of the flame bit.

 

If you compare the 03/07 images at the top, you'll see that the staff loops in the first are completely missing from the second.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Sir Kohran

[Collector1]

Think I didn't like about the 2006 through 2007 comics was the way Sayger would draw these weird looking Matoran with uncommon masks that were never explained inside the comic series.

[soularin]

I disagree that the art of the comics deteriorated over time. Just look at Pop Mhan from 2009-2010. He had a very detailed style that stuck to the sets for the most part. Also, Chistian Zanier who did stuff for the graphic novels. Incredible detail. Stuart Sayger definitely had the most abstract style of all of the artists, but I can't say it's bad. I liked it a lot actually, and the painted explosions and elemental powers from 2007 really stuck out to me reading the comics as a kid. So it's not that they've gotten worse in any sense, it's just that the styles have changed and varied over the years. I suppose the value of the style just depends on the viewer.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Toa Varen

[gunconvoy]

I thought they did that because Legod doesn't sell the product any more. I honestly never understood why the artiest drew it like that. It honestly bugged me.

[Aanchir]

I thought they did that because Legod doesn't sell the product any more. I honestly never understood why the artiest drew it like that. It honestly bugged me.

Not sure what you mean by that since LEGO continued selling BIONICLE sets months after the last comic was released. There were no new comics released after the LEGO Group stopped selling BIONICLE products in 2010.

[TechnicRage]

I like the later, more exaggerated art style as it gives more feeling and expression.

[LewaLew]

 

I thought they did that because Legod doesn't sell the product any more. I honestly never understood why the artiest drew it like that. It honestly bugged me.

Not sure what you mean by that since LEGO continued selling BIONICLE sets months after the last comic was released. There were no new comics released after the LEGO Group stopped selling BIONICLE products in 2010.

 

I think he was implying that Vakama was so off-model because LEGO no longer sold Vakama sets.

[Toa Zaz]

If nothing else, the art from the Sayger comics was dramatic. Check this out. As opposed to the old Randy Elliott art, which was more like this. Even if the level of detail declined, the newer art was partially superior in that it was more dynamic and lively.

[Gatanui]

Sayger's style felt a bit sloppy sometimes (especially the Mask of Life in 2007 ) but overall I really loved it. Personally, I like the 2004 and 2005 style the least, especially the colours.-Gata

[gunconvoy]

 

 

I thought they did that because Legod doesn't sell the product any more. I honestly never understood why the artiest drew it like that. It honestly bugged me.

Not sure what you mean by that since LEGO continued selling BIONICLE sets months after the last comic was released. There were no new comics released after the LEGO Group stopped selling BIONICLE products in 2010.

 

I think he was implying that Vakama was so off-model because LEGO no longer sold Vakama sets.

 

Yes that is what i mean, like they don't sell the set of Vakama at this point any more.

[Mehul]

I'll play devil's advocate and say that for 2006 at least Sayger's style was welcome change and suited the direction the storyline went with the piraka. That said the 2007 comics they were just... that ignika was, dunno wasn't the greatest.

 

However after 07 the comic art defiantly improved, I liked the comic artist from 08 and the one after him.

 

Also as someone who has most of the titans they defiantly got better with each year, even if the toa were a bit homogenised (which kinda makes sense in storyline as toa should be similar right?)

[Unauthorized Autobiography]

Well, the artist for 2006-2007 had kind of a goofy and hard-to-look-at style.

 

I see I'm not the only one who thinks so.

 

When I first saw the Ignition comics... well... let's say there was a huge quake because of my scream.

[Master Inika]

I love the way Sayger drew the Piraka and other villains, but it didn't fit with anyone else. It did have more emotion than D'Anda's works, which always seemed glorified out of nostalgia to me. My personal favorite artist was Randy Elliot. His style had a healthy combination of exaggeration and set accuracy.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

Yeah, art style definitely changed depending on the artist. D'Anda (2001-2002) had a really graphic-novel esque style. It was very stylized and had a nice mix between rich colours and a comic-like look which I really like.

 

Elliot in 2003-2005 had a more set-accurate look, which was okay in some frames but really boring in others. It didn't help that the colourist often miscoloured characters and/or used a more darker hue (I guess to fit Metru Nui's theme).

 

Sayger (2006-2007) was extremely stylized, utilizing really dark tones and heavy paint to make it very unique and artsy, but I guess this was hit and miss with the fans. Overall, I like his style, though some characters were total aberrations.

 

Then we had Mhan from 2008 to the end of the series, who was more like a mix between D'Anda and Elliot by having stylized the characters with rich colours and comic styles, but still remaining set accurate. Great style, though I felt his last two comics had sub-par art.

 

I believe Zanier also deserves a mention for his breathtaking art in the couple of graphic novel original comics he did, such as Hydraxon's Tale and the Baterra story in the Bara Magna graphic novel. Very detailed and organic - absolutely a pleasure to look at.

 

Overall, all of them have unique styles that reflect the artist, not necessarily the time frame. I feel that each one brought something radically new to the table, which made reading the comics a real blast. Ah, how I miss those comics.

 

-NotS

[Just A Dot]

Yeah, art style definitely changed depending on the artist. D'Anda (2001-2002) had a really graphic-novel esque style. It was very stylized and had a nice mix between rich colours and a comic-like look which I really like.

 

Elliot in 2003-2005 had a more set-accurate look, which was okay in some frames but really boring in others. It didn't help that the colourist often miscoloured characters and/or used a more darker hue (I guess to fit Metru Nui's theme).

 

Sayger (2006-2007) was extremely stylized, utilizing really dark tones and heavy paint to make it very unique and artsy, but I guess this was hit and miss with the fans. Overall, I like his style, though some characters were total aberrations.

 

Then we had Mhan from 2008 to the end of the series, who was more like a mix between D'Anda and Elliot by having stylized the characters with rich colours and comic styles, but still remaining set accurate. Great style, though I felt his last two comics had sub-par art.

 

I believe Zanier also deserves a mention for his breathtaking art in the couple of graphic novel original comics he did, such as Hydraxon's Tale and the Baterra story in the Bara Magna graphic novel. Very detailed and organic - absolutely a pleasure to look at.

 

Overall, all of them have unique styles that reflect the artist, not necessarily the time frame. I feel that each one brought something radically new to the table, which made reading the comics a real blast. Ah, how I miss those comics.

 

-NotS

 

Elliot was most accurate to the sets? I recall being so bothered by the Metru's lack of chestplates that were so very present on the sets. He was probably my least favorite, and, as you said, his colorist didn't help.

 

Zanier is always forgotten about, which is a shame, because his art does look really good.

[Gatanui]

Then we had Mhan from 2008 to the end of the series, who was more like a mix between D'Anda and Elliot by having stylized the characters with rich colours and comic styles, but still remaining set accurate. Great style, though I felt his last two comics had sub-par art.

Acually, Pop Mhan drew the comics in 2009 and 2010, Leigh Gallagher was the artist in 2008, though their styles are very similar.

Elliot was most accurate to the sets? I recall being so bothered by the Metru's lack of chestplates that were so very present on the sets. He was probably my least favorite, and, as you said, his colorist didn't help.Zanier is always forgotten about, which is a shame, because his art does look really good.

I guess Elliot got prototypes to work with.-Gata

[Master Inika]

I did like Zanier as well. His drawings were extremely well-done.

[Art Vandelay]

Although I preferred the style of Carlos D'Anda in the 2001-2003 comics, its not really fair to say that one is superior over the other. They're two completely different styles.

[Azani]

I’ve always believed, and still believe that Stuart Sayger was the best artist to ever illustrate the Bionicle comics. In avoiding the norm in artistic styles, Sayger introduced us, the fans to a rich and deep type of illustration that conveyed the expressions, moods, and dangers experienced by the characters like no other artist. There is also a lot to be said for his landscapes; no artist could possibly have evoked the feeling of Mahri Nui as a lost, underwater city better than Sayger. His art showed us the MU from an angle that made it seem more realistic than any artist before him than D’anda or Elliot had been able to manage. Who cares if the two tiny loops on Turaga Vakama’s firestaff are drawn, in order to portray him exactly as his set appears, anyway? Especially when you have Sayger’s expressions and moods.

 

By far, Carlos D’anda was the worst artist on the Bionicle comics, ever. I’ve read all nine issues that he illustrated, and he almost never attempted to show any expressions on the faces of the characters. All the Toa, Turaga, Rahi, and Matoran are completely static and unfeeling. He drew all of the Toa Mata’s weapons and masks exactly how they appear in the sets, when he easily could have added some actual fire to Tahu’s sword or actual frost to Kopaka’s mask. He also kept himself from drawing the characters in creative poses or maneuvers if the sets couldn’t b posed that way themselves. In 2001, the sets had very little articulation, so D’anda took a phenomenal number of possibilities away from himself by mimicking the sets exactly. D’anda limited himself by the sets, while Sayger built us a world. There were no movies or animations in 2006 and 2007 save the lackluster VNOLG and the 2007 Cryoshell music videos, which were non-canon, so Sayger’s art was the only canon visual medium for Voya Nui and Mahri Nui. And Sayger definitely delivered.

 

Sir Kohran, I’d like you to take another look at the two “obvious” examples of the loss of “richness” and “complexity”, and the rise of “wonky and out of proportion” figures that you’re suggesting. Which illustration of Turaga Vakama has the most richness in its coloring, the one on the left or the one on the right? I’m almost certain that we all know the answer to that question.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Artakha's Nephew

[-Windrider-]

Please check the date of the last post before posting - if it's been over sixty days, as in this case, it counts as topic revival.

 

Revived topic closed.