MNOG or MNOG 2....

[Art Vandelay]

Even in regards to the villages and Wahi, I feel MNOG was superior. Even if it's just because of the first person perspective, the villages in the first game felt more organic and real, as opposed to feeling like video game screens where you could only travel in the four cardinal directions. I also preferred the look of locations in the first game. For example, Ta-Koro in MNOG2 felt like a generic castle, whereas the gloomier, alien look of it in the first game inspired more wonder and awe.

 

I can't say which portrayed it more accurately or which one was more "canon". But Mata Nui in the first game felt more compelling, more unique, and more real than the comparatively lifeless portrayal in the sequel.

 

I agree. The Mata Nui in the second game looked like it was designed by computers. (Which of course it was, to an extent. ) But Mata Nui in MNOG looked like a pure creation of nature. It was beautiful. MNOG II was not, as much. Also, the first person view of MNOG made it all the more real and immersive.

 

I also hated the portayal of Ta-Koro in MNOG II it was ugly and quite boring, aesthetically. I loved the Ta-Koro in MNOG.

[Gatanui]

I must admit I didn't like the portrayal of Ta-Koro in MNOG II that much either, which felt kind of cold ironically. The one from MNOG was far more atmospheric. Though I imagine the main reason for this portrayal was to make it similar to the movie.-Gata

[Art Vandelay]

I must admit I didn't like the portrayal of Ta-Koro in MNOG II that much either, which felt kind of cold ironically. The one from MNOG was far more atmospheric. Though I imagine the main reason for this portrayal was to make it similar to the movie.-Gata

 

You're probably right about that. The one village I did like in MNOG II was Ga-Koro. Also, Ko-Koro wasn't too bad.

[Aanchir]

Another thing I noticed: When you ask Nokama "Who am I?" in MNOG, she gives a kind of inspiring response about finding your own destiny. When you ask Amaya the same thing in MNOG II, it's just, "Oh, you're Hahli. You make flax."

Well, I think that's sort of an important theme of MNOGII: the fact that Hahli lives a relatively mundane life and is called on to rise above it and "come out of her shell". Contrast that with the MNOG, where Takua starts out as an outcast. His narrative is about finding a place for himself, or a destiny, or a calling. And he achieves this by taking on responsibilities nobody else is prepared to tackle. He never quite gets to a point where he fits in with the other villagers, but in the very least the citizens of every village learn to appreciate him for his peculiar wanderlust and sense of adventure.MNOGII had more characters, larger villages, and lots of wonderful world-building (such as learning the guiding principles of each Koro, the virtues they are derived from, and the Kolhii skills they teach). In MNOGII, you get the impression that Hahli is on a quest for self-improvement, and as such that she is truly developing as a character through her quest to become a Kolhii champion. And you get a very deep look at Matoran culture in the MNOGII, learning what types of professions are favored in each village and what makes the cultures of those villages so unique.But MNOGII felt less immersive than MNOG due to its third-person perspective, and the map felt static and boring. The characters of MNOGII, depicted as fairly generic sprites rather than having unique looping animations like in MNOG, felt fairly lifeless. The objectives you had to fulfill involved lots of "grinding" in the various minigames, lots of repetitive item collection and crafting, and a solid memory of where you had to go and who you had to talk to for any particular item. The game's world felt almost too open from near the very beginning, never forcing you to really stick around in a particular village and soak in the experience. Also, the game had far fewer cinematic cutscenes than the MNOG, which meant there was very little to the experience other than its remarkably repetitive gameplay and occasional game-breaking glitches. There was never any sense of danger or urgency, which made the minigames occasionally feel simply frustrating rather than thrilling or engaging.Now, MNOG and MNOGII both were somewhat rushed in development in certain respects, but it showed a lot more in MNOGII. The cut content from MNOG, like the Kofo-Jaga in Onu-Wahi, did not leave any conspicuous or perplexing void. But in MNOGII, it was very noticeable that you hardly got to meet any Le-Matoran. There were very few bothersome glitches in MNOG, but MNOGII would glitch so regularly that it was almost impossible to play all the way through without knowing the debug code (KAPURA).All things considered, I feel that MNOG was without a doubt the game that offered a superior gameplay experience. Edited July 27, 2013 by Aanchir: Rachira of Time

[TakunuvaC01]

I suppose, looking back on it now, MNOG was probably a "better game" than MNOG 2.But at the time, what I enjoyed about MNOG 2 was all of the chores and so on, the fact that it felt more like you lived in the world than you were just the hero on an adventure. The rest of Bionicle was "the hero on an adventure", and I didn't really want more of the same, or to be the hero, necessarily- I wanted to know what life was like on the island. Which was what MNOG 2 offered.MNOG 2 tried to be an open world game, and I enjoyed it because of that. I realize I'm probably the exception though, since it seems most people in this thread would rather have been the hero.Not saying it was perfect though. Others have already pointed to various flaws, and it is true that even though I enjoyed the chores system at the time, it might get tedious quickly for me today. But I liked the overall idea.I recall my biggest disappointment with MNOG 2 was that every village outside Ga-Koro and Onu-Koro seemed very lacking in stuff to do. In Ga-Koro at least I could contribute to the economy in a fairly significant way. But it seemed like more and more content was cut as the other Koros were added over time. Which hurt the game a lot, I think, and reduced the "open world" feel of it.Still though, one of the things I preferred about 2001-2003 (and 2004, I guess) to later years was the emphasis on how the Matoran lived and how their societies were structured, and it occurs to me that it's thanks to the MNOGs we got to see a lot of that (even if they are semi-non-canonical). The second one just seems to try and emphasize those elements more.

[Chilli]

Hmmm... good question, probably MNOG portrayed Mata Nui the best.

[Gatanui]

MNOG 2 tried to be an open world game, and I enjoyed it because of that. I realize I'm probably the exception though, since it seems most people in this thread would rather have been the hero.

You are not alone. -Gata

[Lyichir]

MNOG 2 tried to be an open world game, and I enjoyed it because of that. I realize I'm probably the exception though, since it seems most people in this thread would rather have been the hero.

It's not so much about being the hero as "seeing" the hero. MNOG was almost like Forrest Gump in that you took the role of an absolute nobody, yet got to witness the entire 2001 story through a combination of courage, foolishness, and blind luck. My problem with MNOG II was that nothing really happened in it, except for at the very end.

 

The simulation of Matoran day-to-day life may have been fun on its own, like in Animal Crossing (a game I can't get enough of), if the gameplay were the slightest bit compelling. But even putting aside the glitchiness that has kept me from ever actually finishing the game myself, there's not much "game" there. Only running back and forth exchanging one item for another, occasionally playing a mind-numbing minigame repeatedly so that maybe, just maybe, you can win a Kolhii match and actually progress in the game. The game may have been more interesting if there were more interesting characters, yet even after every Matoran on the island of Mata Nui was named, most of them remained ciphers spouting the same line of dialogue every time you talked to them. And even if you managed to accomplish one of the goals, the world remained much the same, making it seem almost like Hahli was the only Matoran who actually ever did anything on her own.

 

A game can succeed as a life sim if and only if it offers some modicum of player choice, and some indication that the character you control matters. Some games give you that by allowing you to design your character, or exert your influence on the world they're in. Others place your character in a dynamic world that changes as you play and observe. Mata Nui Online Game 2 placed you in the shoes of a Matoran who had no interaction with the world save for the drudgery of manual labor and the boredom of training for a nigh-unplayable tournament. And from what I've read, that didn't change until the endgame. It simulated only a world I never would want to be a part of, where nothing ever happened.

[Gatanui]

And what about the charms and finding the crystals? I highly enjoyed that but nobody here even seems to mention it.-Gata

[Master Inika]

The charms and crystals were pretty cool.

[fishers64]

That was the only mysterious part of the entire game. But it was also confusing, which robbed it of the grandaur it could have had. And besides, it was so girly. Wrong audience.

Edited July 29, 2013 by fishers64

[Gatanui]

That was the only mysterious part of the entire game. But it was also confusing, which robbed it of the grandaur it could have had.And besides, it was so girly. Wrong audience.

I think most of the crystal temples had beautiful visuals. Particularly the Ga-Koro, Po-Koro and Onu-Koro temples come to mind.What was girly?-Gata

[fishers64]

 

That was the only mysterious part of the entire game. But it was also confusing, which robbed it of the grandaur it could have had.And besides, it was so girly. Wrong audience.

I think most of the crystal temples had beautiful visuals. Particularly the Ga-Koro, Po-Koro and Onu-Koro temples come to mind.What was girly?-Gata

Charms and crystals = girly. Anyway, yes, the crystal places had good visauls. I don't know about the Onu or Po-Koro temples, but the Ga one was definately pretty.

[Just A Dot]

And what about the charms and finding the crystals? I highly enjoyed that but nobody here even seems to mention it.-Gata

If they actually had some kind of story behind them, then I would agree, but they didn't, so they just felt lame to me.

[Aanchir]

 

 

That was the only mysterious part of the entire game. But it was also confusing, which robbed it of the grandaur it could have had.And besides, it was so girly. Wrong audience.

I think most of the crystal temples had beautiful visuals. Particularly the Ga-Koro, Po-Koro and Onu-Koro temples come to mind.What was girly?-Gata

 

Charms and crystals = girly.Anyway, yes, the crystal places had good visauls. I don't know about the Onu or Po-Koro temples, but the Ga one was definately pretty.

 

Not sure how either charms OR crystals are all that girly. Charms in the context of a "charm bracelet" could be considered girly, but these were almost more "charms" in a similar sense to a "good luck charm" — an item that has some sort of supernatural power or importance. Would it have been less girly if it had called them "talismans"?You could just as easily argue that the Lord of the Rings is girly because it's all about jewelry. Though I guess the Lord of the Rings didn't have a female main character (or even very many significant female characters whatsoever, for that matter).

[Gatanui]

 

 

That was the only mysterious part of the entire game. But it was also confusing, which robbed it of the grandaur it could have had.And besides, it was so girly. Wrong audience.

I think most of the crystal temples had beautiful visuals. Particularly the Ga-Koro, Po-Koro and Onu-Koro temples come to mind.What was girly?-Gata

 

Charms and crystals = girly.Anyway, yes, the crystal places had good visauls. I don't know about the Onu or Po-Koro temples, but the Ga one was definately pretty.

 

I can honestly say I don't have the slightest idea how your "charms and crystals = girly" equation makes sense in the slightest way, sorry. The only way I see any hint of sense in it is with a sexist motive, but even then I can barely wrap my head around it. -Gata Edited July 29, 2013 by Gatanui

[fishers64]

 

 

 

That was the only mysterious part of the entire game. But it was also confusing, which robbed it of the grandaur it could have had.And besides, it was so girly. Wrong audience.

I think most of the crystal temples had beautiful visuals. Particularly the Ga-Koro, Po-Koro and Onu-Koro temples come to mind.What was girly?-Gata

Charms and crystals = girly.Anyway, yes, the crystal places had good visauls. I don't know about the Onu or Po-Koro temples, but the Ga one was definately pretty.

Not sure how either charms OR crystals are all that girly. Charms in the context of a "charm bracelet" could be considered girly, but these were almost more "charms" in a similar sense to a "good luck charm" an item that has some sort of supernatural power or importance. Would it have been less girly if it had called them "talismans"?You could just as easily argue that the Lord of the Rings is girly because it's all about jewelry. Though I guess the Lord of the Rings didn't have a female main character (or even very many significant female characters whatsoever, for that matter).

First question, yes. But that would have been Native American IMO, which IMO doesn't fit with MNOG 2 (no offense to them intended). And the Lord of the Rings isn't girly. Guys wear rings, no? (Granted, not as often as girls, but the mention of rings need not make something girly.)I guess I've played one too many games aimed at girls where the prime objective was to collect the pretty power crystals. (Which surprises me, because I haven't played too many of those, and dislike those games much. This game doesn't qualify because the whole thing is mysterious and has a point, but whatever.)And absolutely no sexism intended. I don't see why my statement doesn't make sense. Edited July 29, 2013 by fishers64

[Gatanui]

And absolutely no sexism intended. I don't see why my statement doesn't make sense.

I can imagine you didn't mean it like that. I just don't see how the crystals and charms from MNOG II are in any way girly, but maybe that's just me.-Gata

[Lyichir]

 

And absolutely no sexism intended. I don't see why my statement doesn't make sense.

I can imagine you didn't mean it like that. I just don't see how the crystals and charms from MNOG II are in any way girly, but maybe that's just me.-Gata

 

Frankly, I just saw them as valuable artifacts a la the Makoki stones from 2001. Are the miners from Power Miners girly? That whole theme was about collecting crystals.

[Gatanui]

 

 

And absolutely no sexism intended. I don't see why my statement doesn't make sense.

I can imagine you didn't mean it like that. I just don't see how the crystals and charms from MNOG II are in any way girly, but maybe that's just me.-Gata

 

Frankly, I just saw them as valuable artifacts a la the Makoki stones from 2001. Are the miners from Power Miners girly? That whole theme was about collecting crystals.

 

Yeah, same here. I was just like wutz when I read fisher's post. -Gata

[fishers64]

 

 

 

And absolutely no sexism intended. I don't see why my statement doesn't make sense.

I can imagine you didn't mean it like that. I just don't see how the crystals and charms from MNOG II are in any way girly, but maybe that's just me.-Gata

 

Frankly, I just saw them as valuable artifacts a la the Makoki stones from 2001. Are the miners from Power Miners girly? That whole theme was about collecting crystals.

 

Yeah, same here. I was just like wutz when I read fisher's post. -Gata

 

 

Okay, I stand corrected . Would "Charms + crystals = girly" make more sense?

[Gatanui]

 

 

 

 

And absolutely no sexism intended. I don't see why my statement doesn't make sense.

I can imagine you didn't mean it like that. I just don't see how the crystals and charms from MNOG II are in any way girly, but maybe that's just me.-Gata

 

Frankly, I just saw them as valuable artifacts a la the Makoki stones from 2001. Are the miners from Power Miners girly? That whole theme was about collecting crystals.

 

Yeah, same here. I was just like wutz when I read fisher's post. -Gata

 

Okay, I stand corrected . Would "Charms + crystals = girly" make more sense?

 

Was it intended that you only replaced the "and" with a + ?-Gata

[fishers64]

 

 

Okay, I stand corrected . Would "Charms + crystals = girly" make more sense?

 

Was it intended that you only replaced the "and" with a + ?-Gata

 

 

Um...yes? *is confused*

Edited July 30, 2013 by fishers64

[Gatanui]

 

 

Okay, I stand corrected . Would "Charms + crystals = girly" make more sense?

Was it intended that you only replaced the "and" with a + ?-Gata

 

Um...yes? *is confused*

 

I see what you did there. -Gata

[fishers64]

 

 

 

Okay, I stand corrected . Would "Charms + crystals = girly" make more sense?

Was it intended that you only replaced the "and" with a + ?-Gata

 

Um...yes? *is confused*

 

I see what you did there. -Gata

 

 

What?

 

I have no idea what you're talking about. Seriously. For real. Could you please clarify?

[Gatanui]

 

 

 

 

Okay, I stand corrected . Would "Charms + crystals = girly" make more sense?

Was it intended that you only replaced the "and" with a + ?-Gata

 

Um...yes? *is confused*

 

I see what you did there. -Gata

 

What? I have no idea what you're talking about. Seriously. For real. Could you please clarify?

 

Err...now I'm confused as well. Earlier you said "charms and crystals = girly", now you replaced the "and" with a +. I thought it was to make your equation more mathematically correct or whatever, but now I'm noticing you probably actually meant to clarify that charms and crystals are not girly on their own, but when put together. Am I right?-Gata

[fishers64]

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, I stand corrected . Would "Charms + crystals = girly" make more sense?

Was it intended that you only replaced the "and" with a + ?-Gata

 

Um...yes? *is confused*

 

I see what you did there. -Gata

 

What? I have no idea what you're talking about. Seriously. For real. Could you please clarify?

 

Err...now I'm confused as well. Earlier you said "charms and crystals = girly", now you replaced the "and" with a +. I thought it was to make your equation more mathematically correct or whatever, but now I'm noticing you probably actually meant to clarify that charms and crystals are not girly on their own, but when put together. Am I right?-Gata

 

Yes.

[Gatanui]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, I stand corrected . Would "Charms + crystals = girly" make more sense?

Was it intended that you only replaced the "and" with a + ?-Gata

 

Um...yes? *is confused*

 

I see what you did there. -Gata

 

What? I have no idea what you're talking about. Seriously. For real. Could you please clarify?

 

Err...now I'm confused as well. Earlier you said "charms and crystals = girly", now you replaced the "and" with a +. I thought it was to make your equation more mathematically correct or whatever, but now I'm noticing you probably actually meant to clarify that charms and crystals are not girly on their own, but when put together. Am I right?-Gata

 

Yes.

 

Good. Though to be honest, I still don't feel that makes MNOG II in any way girly, but I think we've been arguing about this far too long already. Let's just forget about it. -Gata

[Arzaki]

I find it amusing that you say crystals are girly, yet you have translucent stones, sort of crystals, in your sig. Yes I know amethysts are gems, but still, amethysts are used in jewelry.

[Aanchir]

I find it amusing that you say crystals are girly, yet you have translucent stones, sort of crystals, in your sig. Yes I know amethysts are gems, but still, amethysts are used in jewelry.

Ummm... fishers64 is a girl. There's nothing contradictory about that at all.But I also don't think that made MNOGII seem particularly girly myself. Maybe I just interpreted "charms" differently.

[Gatanui]

But I also don't think that made MNOGII seem particularly girly myself. Maybe I just interpreted "charms" differently.

Same here, but really, I think this is getting out of hand. We all just thought of the charms and crystals in different ways and maybe we also have different opinions of what is girly or not (apart from personally feeling that the concept of something being "girly" is kind of stupid, but I digress). Let's just agree to disagree. -Gata Edited July 30, 2013 by Gatanui

[fishers64]

I find it amusing that you say crystals are girly, yet you have translucent stones, sort of crystals, in your sig. Yes I know amethysts are gems, but still, amethysts are used in jewelry.

I'm a girl, so I can get away with it. (I was actually wondering if anyone would say that lol.)I also can assure everyone here that my story has nothing to do with jewelry. Unfortunately I can't reveal the nature of the rock in the story, as that's plot spoilers. But anyway, getting back on topic, sorry to have confused everyone with my crazy statement. Going off of this, I think MNOG might have been slightly less wacky than MNOG 2 in respect to the village trips. In MNOG you get practical objects that make sense (sort of) whereas in MNOG 2 you get etheral objects that you don't know much about for most of the game.

[Gatanui]

But anyway, getting back on topic, sorry to have confused everyone with my crazy statement. Going off of this, I think MNOG might have been slightly less wacky than MNOG 2 in respect to the village trips. In MNOG you get practical objects that make sense (sort of) whereas in MNOG 2 you get etheral objects that you don't know much about for most of the game.

Apart from all the artifacts, as they were classified in-game, I think you got plenty of practical objects as well. What's more, you could actually see them in Hahli's hand and being used, while in MNOG all you could was drag and drop them and suddenly something happened with them.-Gata

[ToaKapura1234]

But in MNOG, you kept them. In II they glitched and vanished from your backpack, forcing you to restart the game.

[Gatanui]

But in MNOG, you kept them. In II they glitched and vanished from your backpack, forcing you to restart the game.

I've never experienced any items glitching disappearing from the backpack. Most glitches in the game were related to scenes not loading properly or files missing.-Gata

[Arzaki]

 

I find it amusing that you say crystals are girly, yet you have translucent stones, sort of crystals, in your sig. Yes I know amethysts are gems, but still, amethysts are used in jewelry.

Ummm... fishers64 is a girl. There's nothing contradictory about that at all.But I also don't think that made MNOGII seem particularly girly myself. Maybe I just interpreted "charms" differently.

 

Well, this is the internet. Most people on the internet assume others are male unless they have pigtails or something.

I also thought fishers was male because I don't think many girls don't like a game for being girly. But I'm a guy, soo....

[fishers64]

 

 

I find it amusing that you say crystals are girly, yet you have translucent stones, sort of crystals, in your sig. Yes I know amethysts are gems, but still, amethysts are used in jewelry.

Ummm... fishers64 is a girl. There's nothing contradictory about that at all.But I also don't think that made MNOGII seem particularly girly myself. Maybe I just interpreted "charms" differently.

Well, this is the internet. Most people on the internet assume others are male unless they have pigtails or something.I also thought fishers was male because I don't think many girls don't like a game for being girly. But I'm a guy, soo....

I was merely making an objective statement. I don't like or dislike MNOG 2 for being girly, or having girly charms and crystals. I was saying that, for a game that was trying to appeal to boys, having charms and crystals in it was out of place. And relax, you're not the first. I'm on a website dedicated to a toyline marketed to boys, so it comes with the territory. I just acknowledge it to avoid confusion, and don't trumpet it to avoid awkwardness. Edited August 1, 2013 by fishers64

[SarracenianKaijin]

MNOG I obviously had the better story, less obstuse gameplay, a better atmosphere and overall just a good Myst-esque game that helped shaped Bionicle in the early years.

 

MNOG 2 is, while kinda step down in many ways, I still kinda like. Mostly because I really liked the whole virtue and principle system it had. Hey, worldbuilding is always neat, and nothing says worldbuilding than an interesting religion and culture. That and Templar's style and graphics.

That and the hilarious names they chose for Matorans, half of it were essentially just Finnish words and names.

[emily]

The whole discussion over whether the game is "girly" reminds me of Templar's testing with children to determine whether or not they should identify Hahli's bag as a purse in the final game.

 

I always found the concept of the charms and crystals, and their link to the virtues and values of the villages, to be very intriguing and without a doubt the most interesting aspect of the game. The problem I have with them, though, as with the rest of the game, is that I do not think that they are explored nearly enough. These charms come out of nowhere, and little is done to adequately explain them, their history, or their purpose. Obviously, revealing everything about them is not necessary; that would spoil the air of mystery around them. But when it comes to the end of the game, we still have been given only vague ideas of what exactly the crystals and charms are. Placing them about the shrine on the Ta-Wahi beach somehow moves Hahli forward in time to the final battle with the Rahkshi at the Kini-Nui, which works well for keeping the game along the same timeline as Mask of Light, but is in most other ways confusing (what is worse, nothing actually happens once this occurs. We could have had some sort of conclusion to the story of the game if we could have seen what Hahli does at the Kini-Nui once she arrives there, but since Templar couldn't integrate scenes directly from the film the ending of the game feels confusing and unsatisfactory). Nokama claims that Hahli has dispelled the mystery of the crystals, but we are left frustratingly in the dark as to what it is we have apparently uncovered. The crystals' purpose did not need to be fully explained (and indeed I would prefer if it were not), but I feel that the way Templar presented them was somewhat too unexpected and inexplicable. A part of this may have been how late they were introduced. Having not only the charms and crystals, but great temples dedicated to them on the island, felt like something of a contradiction to the already established society on Mata Nui, to me at least.

 

The crystal temples were something of a disappointment to me as well. I feel that Templar had them going in a good direction with the Temple of Purity: once Hahli had reached the temple, she had to solve a puzzle in connection to the crystal's virtue in order to obtain it. Beyond that temple, though, this concept seems to have been dropped, allowing Hahli to simply enter into the chambers and claim the crystals.

 

As interesting as the charms and crystals (and in particular the Matoran concepts on which they were based) were, I believe that they just fell victim to time constraints and perhaps reprioritization on Templar’s part in regards to what things they were focusing on in the game. As a result, I feel that they weren't explored enough to justify their existence.

[Gatanui]

Yeah, the ending was a huge disappointment. I had no idea what happened and still don't. Nokama says that Hahli has unlocked the mistery of the stones, but the player has no idea how. :/The other temples would have been great with riddles as well, but at least they had fantastic visuals.-Gata