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#81 Offline BlueFire

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Posted Jul 17 2013 - 05:26 PM

Yes I would choose air for the followingVacuums Can force anything awayCyclonesVacuumsThus ends my post
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#82 Offline Tanu Toa of Earth

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Posted Jul 17 2013 - 08:57 PM

All of this scientific talk makes me wonder if there is an upper limit to how much Toa of Sonics, Gravity, Magnetism, and Lightning could hone their powers... Because a hypothetical team of these four Toa types with their powers at the an extreme level of fine control could do some pretty crazy things.


Edited by Tanu Toa of Earth, Jul 17 2013 - 08:58 PM.

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#83 Offline man774

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Posted Jul 17 2013 - 10:42 PM

A toa of gravity could use his powers as telekenisis. he could lower the gravity around a person and "toss" them around.


Edited by man774, Jul 17 2013 - 10:43 PM.

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#84 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 17 2013 - 11:47 PM

All of this scientific talk makes me wonder if there is an upper limit to how much Toa of Sonics, Gravity, Magnetism, and Lightning could hone their powers... Because a hypothetical team of these four Toa types with their powers at the an extreme level of fine control could do some pretty crazy things.

There probably is. Atomic level for example is probably out.


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#85 Offline Geardirector

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Posted Jul 18 2013 - 12:48 AM

A toa of gravity could use his powers as telekenisis. he could lower the gravity around a person and "toss" them around.

 

Gravity as a power has often been portrayed as a super-powerful telekinesis, think Graviton from the series premier of Avengers EMH, or Gravattack from Ben 10.

 

The problem, the way I see it, is how, exactly this ability is achieved. Does it work by becoming a center of gravity, by manipulating an object's personal gravity, or using through manipulation of gravitational pull and effect on the individual/object?


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#86 Offline Radagast367

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Posted Jul 18 2013 - 01:33 AM

There's also the combining of the elements E.g, water and wind.

Also, could a toa of ice make something very cold then take all that cold away to make it crack? And, in Avatar the last airbender, there is a "bloodbender" who controls the water in a persons body to make them move to her wish- would a toa of water be able this, I wonder, or would there not be enough water in a bionicle body?


Edited by Radagast367, Jul 18 2013 - 01:34 AM.

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#87 Offline Geardirector

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Posted Jul 18 2013 - 01:39 AM

Also, could a toa of ice make something very cold then take all that cold away to make it crack?

 

Don't you think taking away the cold would make the ice melt rather than crack.?


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#88 Offline Onarax

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Posted Jul 18 2013 - 02:13 AM

 

Also, could a toa of ice make something very cold then take all that cold away to make it crack?

 

Don't you think taking away the cold would make the ice melt rather than crack.?

 

I think he's referring to things that aren't water.

 

Hmm ... depends on the amount of liquid present inside that object.


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#89 Offline Tahu's Courage

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Posted Jul 18 2013 - 10:22 AM

All of this scientific talk makes me wonder if there is an upper limit to how much Toa of Sonics, Gravity, Magnetism, and Lightning could hone their powers... Because a hypothetical team of these four Toa types with their powers at the an extreme level of fine control could do some pretty crazy things.

Careful, such a dangerous idea would be capable of destroying an entire planet.


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#90 Offline Pikiru

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Posted Jul 18 2013 - 10:31 AM

 

A toa of gravity could use his powers as telekenisis. he could lower the gravity around a person and "toss" them around.

 

Gravity as a power has often been portrayed as a super-powerful telekinesis, think Graviton from the series premier of Avengers EMH, or Gravattack from Ben 10.

 

The problem, the way I see it, is how, exactly this ability is achieved. Does it work by becoming a center of gravity, by manipulating an object's personal gravity, or using through manipulation of gravitational pull and effect on the individual/object?

 

 

I dont think it would be becoming a centre of gravity, unless the Toa was using a Nova Blast (though I am not sure if they can do this). I would suspect that they would either alter the object/person's personal gravity, or manipulate the gravity around it/them. Though maybe they would just manipulate the mass of the object/person, thereby making it/them more or less heavy. 


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#91 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 18 2013 - 07:09 PM

A toa of gravity could use his powers as telekenisis. he could lower the gravity around a person and "toss" them around.

 

Gravity as a power has often been portrayed as a super-powerful telekinesis, think Graviton from the series premier of Avengers EMH, or Gravattack from Ben 10.

 

The problem, the way I see it, is how, exactly this ability is achieved. Does it work by becoming a center of gravity, by manipulating an object's personal gravity, or using through manipulation of gravitational pull and effect on the individual/object?

Understanding it is really easy as long as you understand what gravity is -- an energy that when it hits an object, pulls the object in the direction that the energy came in from. So, the short answer is that they would make sure enough gravity was hitting from the direction they wanted the object to move toward.

 

 

 

Long answer is that this can happen by bending the gravity that's already being emitted by a planet (using control rather than making new gravity; this would be most efficient), or by creating new gravity (best in outer space for example).

 

Asking about a "center" of gravity in that context is a bit misleading. Imagine a wavy line. If the wavy line hits you, what is its "center" of origin? If you assume it's just the direction it happened to hit you from, you would be wrong, as in that case it didn't travel in a straight line. In the example of bending a planet's gravity, the planet is still the gravity source, so you could call that the "center", but probably best not to because "center of gravity" as a simple mathematics term no longer applies.

 

Also, if they make new gravity, I would think it would be better to make a "laser" of gravity rather than radiating from a point, so each graviton has its own point of origin, and each one travels parallel to all the others. If there's a true center, that implies that most of the gravitons are heading off in all the wrong directions, wasting elemental energy.

 

 

Re: manipulating personal gravity -- it sounds like you may be confusing gravity in the sense meant by the Bionicle element with mass. Most objects do not emit enough gravity to have any noticeable effect, and if they did, they would attract other things to them, not the other way around, technically (assuming mass did not also increase). If you mean, manipulating the gravitons that are passing through an object, then yes (by changing the direction of approach before they hit).

 

In the last part, if you mean increasing how much pull each individual graviton has, it seems highly unlikely Toa could do that as you'd have to mess with the "base code of the universe" and it would probably destroy all existence or something. :P

 

 

 

There's also the combining of the elements E.g, water and wind.

Also, could a toa of ice make something very cold then take all that cold away to make it crack? And, in Avatar the last airbender, there is a "bloodbender" who controls the water in a persons body to make them move to her wish- would a toa of water be able this, I wonder, or would there not be enough water in a bionicle body?

1) Should be possible. Most things become more brittle the colder they are.

 

2) Spherus Magna beings yes definitely. MU beings probably -- it's confirmed they need to drink water. Of course (for MU beings at least) they don't actually have blood. It would be mixed with the organic molecules somehow. I only say probably because it's possible the protodermis molecules tear apart water molecules for various purposes or at least bond them to other things so they're no longer technically water. Still, some water should still be there "en route", even if either option is the case.

 

 

 

Also, could a toa of ice make something very cold then take all that cold away to make it crack?

 

Don't you think taking away the cold would make the ice melt rather than crack.?

 

I think he's referring to things that aren't water.

 

Hmm ... depends on the amount of liquid present inside that object.

More liquid would help for it but it's not entirely necessary, depending on the substance. Actually, it would be most likely to crack while very cold rather than while it's taken away, but yeah.


Edited by bonesiii, Jul 18 2013 - 07:10 PM.

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#92 Offline Onarax

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Posted Jul 18 2013 - 07:59 PM

A Toa of Plasma ... they have basically the power of the sun yeah?


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#93 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 18 2013 - 08:07 PM

A Toa of Plasma ... they have basically the power of the sun yeah?

The plasma part, yeah. Nuclear reactions not so much. :P


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#94 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jul 18 2013 - 09:17 PM

@Gravity: I would think I would be able to make myself heavier using that power, and redirect that "heaviness" so it goes in a different direction, right?
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#95 Offline Onarax

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Posted Jul 18 2013 - 11:39 PM

 

A Toa of Plasma ... they have basically the power of the sun yeah?

The plasma part, yeah. Nuclear reactions not so much. :P

 

Is it possible for a Plasma Toa to pull out cold plasma, seeing that there are cold stars out there?


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#96 Offline Arzaki

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Posted Jul 19 2013 - 08:12 AM

 

 

A Toa of Plasma ... they have basically the power of the sun yeah?

The plasma part, yeah. Nuclear reactions not so much. :P

 

Is it possible for a Plasma Toa to pull out cold plasma, seeing that there are cold stars out there?

 

Maybe with the help of some Ice Toa or Water Toa. 

On the note of Plasma Toa creating stars, could they cause a supernova? Or would that be something for a Toa of Gravity?


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#97 Online Gravity

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Posted Jul 19 2013 - 10:54 AM

[color=rgb(0,0,0);][font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"]@Gravity: I would think I would be able to make myself heavier using that power, and redirect that "heaviness" so it goes in a different direction, right?[/color][/font]

 

Seems to me to just be altering the direction that gravity is pulling you, definitely viable for gravity-users.  Using that, most beings with a moderate amount of control over gravity would easily be able to fly, at least in some sense, even if it would be more akin to "pulling" themselves through the air.


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#98 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 19 2013 - 11:46 AM

@Gravity: I would think I would be able to make myself heavier using that power, and redirect that "heaviness" so it goes in a different direction, right?

Well, what do you mean by "heaviness"? Like I said above, they can't actually change the mass of an object, most likely. But they can increase the amount of gravity hitting it, plus change its direction. (Of course, the powers of Levitation and Increase Weight probably don't actually change the mass either but do add a "heaviness" effect or take some of it away... so maaaybe...)

 

 

 

 

A Toa of Plasma ... they have basically the power of the sun yeah?

The plasma part, yeah. Nuclear reactions not so much. :P

 

Is it possible for a Plasma Toa to pull out cold plasma, seeing that there are cold stars out there?

 

Maybe with the help of some Ice Toa or Water Toa. 

On the note of Plasma Toa creating stars, could they cause a supernova? Or would that be something for a Toa of Gravity?

 

Re: cold plasma -- we were told that Plasma element = non-flammable gasses plus superheat. So I don't really see anything cold going into that, but on the other hand, "cold stars" as far as I recall is just a term for "not quite so ubersuperduperhot". Some materials also turn plasma at lower temperatures, with just electrical changes (flourescent lights, etc.), and the like. You probably mean something specific that I've forgotten, though. Some stars can get pretty weird.

 

Re: supernova -- if you mean make a little ball of plasma (little compared to a star), and then make it radiate outward (explode basically but under elemental telekinesis), then sure. If you mean point at Solis Magna, say "POOF" and destroy the star system... let's hope not!

 

 

[color=rgb(0,0,0);][font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"]@Gravity: I would think I would be able to make myself heavier using that power, and redirect that "heaviness" so it goes in a different direction, right?[/color][/font]

 

Seems to me to just be altering the direction that gravity is pulling you, definitely viable for gravity-users.  Using that, most beings with a moderate amount of control over gravity would easily be able to fly, at least in some sense, even if it would be more akin to "pulling" themselves through the air.

Well, all flying is by definition either pushing or pulling through the air -- sometimes a bit of both; a jet plane's wing-mounted engines are technically pulling the rear part and pushing the front, and the lift of the wings pulls the underside, landing gear, etc. up and pushes the rest up. So it's definitely flying. It's also fair to call it "falling up" and the like though too in this case.


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#99 Offline Null.

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Posted Jul 19 2013 - 12:25 PM

Re: supernova -- if you mean make a little ball of plasma (little compared to a star), and then make it radiate outward (explode basically but under elemental telekinesis), then sure. If you mean point at Solis Magna, say "POOF" and destroy the star system... let's hope not! 

 Maybe with the Nui stone. And I've always wondered if a Toa Nuva did a Nova blast with a Nui stone, how powerful would it be?


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#100 Offline badabababa obesity

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Posted Jul 19 2013 - 12:50 PM

A nova blast using the Nui Stone would be thirty times as powerful as a regular nova blast.
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#101 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jul 19 2013 - 01:02 PM

@Gravity: I would think I would be able to make myself heavier using that power, and redirect that "heaviness" so it goes in a different direction, right?

Well, what do you mean by "heaviness"? Like I said above, they can't actually change the mass of an object, most likely. But they can increase the amount of gravity hitting it, plus change its direction. (Of course, the powers of Levitation and Increase Weight probably don't actually change the mass either but do add a "heaviness" effect or take some of it away... so maaaybe...)

I was thinking that I would be able to attract more "gravitons" to myself, and then manipulate them so they go in a different direction. People above were talking about gravitational telekinesis, so I could pull a person toward me by making myself heavier and push them away by making myself lighter. If that makes any sense at all.I know that personal gravity is negligible. But I imagine (foolishly, perhaps) that a Gravity user could amplify that out of the negligible range by creating new gravity.

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#102 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 19 2013 - 05:42 PM

So you're talking about graviton lensing -- the same thing done to light fires with sunlight with a magnifying glass, but with gravity. Yeah, Toa of Gravity should be able to do that. I was going to mention that earlier but forgot, heh.

 

Re: amount of Nui Stone -- where'd the thirty times thing come from? I think it just depends on how much energy the stone has charged up... but there might be a maximum charge, I dunno.

 

Also there's almost certainly a range, even for users of the Nui Stone, so to literally make a real star go supernova they'd probably have to fly right at it... And I think it's generally safe to say it would be a suicide mission. Hm... I'm imagining some interesting "future interstellar SM society" sci-fi wars and extreme measures types of things. :P

 

Although please note I'm not saying it would work assuming real life physics would be in play; it's been a few years since I last studied star workings and I'm foggy on it. :) But in Bionicle physics, sure, why not?


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#103 Offline Onarax

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Posted Jul 19 2013 - 07:42 PM

I was wondering if Plasma Toa were capable of harnessing non-thermal plasma for their usage.


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#104 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jul 19 2013 - 11:31 PM

So you're talking about graviton lensing -- the same thing done to light fires with sunlight with a magnifying glass, but with gravity. Yeah, Toa of Gravity should be able to do that. I was going to mention that earlier but forgot, heh.

Well, since you brought it up, shouldn't Toa of Light be able to light fires then?I don't know about the 30x thing or the cold Plasma; that's Greg hunting material I don't have time to run right now.

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#105 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 21 2013 - 01:12 PM

I was wondering if Plasma Toa were capable of harnessing non-thermal plasma for their usage.

Still not entirely sure, but I think no. (Also, pretty sure the phenomenon cited at that link has nothing to do with cold stars.)

 

 

So you're talking about graviton lensing -- the same thing done to light fires with sunlight with a magnifying glass, but with gravity. Yeah, Toa of Gravity should be able to do that. I was going to mention that earlier but forgot, heh.

Well, since you brought it up, shouldn't Toa of Light be able to light fires then?

Yep.


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#106 Offline Norik Of Celtania

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Posted Jul 21 2013 - 10:23 PM

In order:

Psionics

Gravity

Air.

 

Psionics can do lots of stuff. Why do you think the BZPRPG banned it? Levitate any thing, read minds, illusions et cetera. In effect, you control everybody's mind. With one element, you manipulate all five senses. And Levitation.

Gravity, because you can make stuff float, fly, move around  get quashed, and with master control over it, you can manipulate the gravity around stuff to make them move about like levitation. But it's quite limited.

Air, because gases can compress and slither around objects, so in effect, a more weak and unreliable version of gravity powers.


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#107 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jul 22 2013 - 11:48 AM

@ Cold Plasma: Greg quotes below: 

3. Isn't a Toa of Lightning basically a Toa of Plasma? I mean, lightning is a form of terrestrial plasma.   3) Not to me, no. Lightning is electricity -- plasma is superheated ionized gas. The army is working on developing plasma weapons, but they already have weapons that can shoot electric bolts, so they must see a difference as well.

 

The subject of how fire differs from plasma has come up in an S&T topic now... wanted to clarify how you see this. Fire is the byproduct of combustion (usually between oxygen and something else and heat) and the matter in it shines because it is a plasma. (So in a sense it is a type of plasma.) That's the real world definition, and it seems to hold up in Bionicle. Plasma on the other hand is more like a category, and its definition is simply, matter heated so much it's in gas form and emits light and heat.       So, in Bionicle, fire is combustion-produced flames, while plasma is hot gas that shines. A plasma Toa wouldn't be able to directly produce a flame, or directly burn up wood; he'd have to shoot plasma at something to ignite it and cause fire. And a Fire Toa can't just shoot a beam of superhot shining air directly; combustion has to be involved. Possibly a Toa of plasma could heat solids into plasma too, such as stone (metal'd be much harder) proto. A common attack would send out what looks like a brightly glowing "cloud" beam, not with discernable flames.    That make sense?            ANSWER: Yup

 

1) A Toa of Plasma is basically very good at one thing -- melting things. And that he does very well. A Toa of Fire can do a lot of other things  besides just melt things.

 

* Could you explain the element Plasma ? I really don’t know what that is.1) Plasma is super-heated ionized gas

 

He seems to be pretty firm on it. It's hot. 


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#108 Offline Geardirector

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Posted Jul 22 2013 - 03:15 PM

Also, if they make new gravity, I would think it would be better to make a "laser" of gravity

 

Could you elaborate on this? I'm afraid I'm a little lost.  :dazed: 


Edited by Geardirector, Jul 22 2013 - 03:15 PM.

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#109 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 22 2013 - 03:23 PM

Also, if they make new gravity, I would think it would be better to make a "laser" of gravity

Could you elaborate on this? I'm afraid I'm a little lost.  :dazed: 

A laser is energy all going in the same (parallel) direction, right? As opposed to light radiating in all directions from a normal lightbulb. Same thing here; normally gravity radiates from a single point in all directions, but if you're trying to make "sideways gravity" or "up-gravity" to move things telekinetically, why make 99% of the gravity heading off in useless directions? More efficient to make it parallel, so you're just making the gravitons that will actually hit the object you want to affect.

 

Make sense? :)

 

Note that unless you're in space, this would probably be really bending the planet's gravity rather than making new gravity, but the end effect would be linear rather than radial as it hits the target object. Mata Nui's artificial gravity systems would, though, be massive, really wide "lasers" of gravity probably, so all the gravity goes in one direction, and Toa of Gravity could do the same thing if needed.


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#110 Offline Onarax

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Posted Jul 23 2013 - 02:04 AM

@ Cold Plasma: Greg quotes below: 

3. Isn't a Toa of Lightning basically a Toa of Plasma? I mean, lightning is a form of terrestrial plasma.   3) Not to me, no. Lightning is electricity -- plasma is superheated ionized gas. The army is working on developing plasma weapons, but they already have weapons that can shoot electric bolts, so they must see a difference as well.

 

The subject of how fire differs from plasma has come up in an S&T topic now... wanted to clarify how you see this. Fire is the byproduct of combustion (usually between oxygen and something else and heat) and the matter in it shines because it is a plasma. (So in a sense it is a type of plasma.) That's the real world definition, and it seems to hold up in Bionicle. Plasma on the other hand is more like a category, and its definition is simply, matter heated so much it's in gas form and emits light and heat.       So, in Bionicle, fire is combustion-produced flames, while plasma is hot gas that shines. A plasma Toa wouldn't be able to directly produce a flame, or directly burn up wood; he'd have to shoot plasma at something to ignite it and cause fire. And a Fire Toa can't just shoot a beam of superhot shining air directly; combustion has to be involved. Possibly a Toa of plasma could heat solids into plasma too, such as stone (metal'd be much harder) proto. A common attack would send out what looks like a brightly glowing "cloud" beam, not with discernable flames.    That make sense?            ANSWER: Yup

 

1) A Toa of Plasma is basically very good at one thing -- melting things. And that he does very well. A Toa of Fire can do a lot of other things  besides just melt things.

 

* Could you explain the element Plasma ? I really don’t know what that is.1) Plasma is super-heated ionized gas

 

He seems to be pretty firm on it. It's hot. 

So plasma seems pretty simple then, huh.


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#111 Offline Radagast367

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Posted Jul 23 2013 - 02:34 AM

Ide like to see what a nova blast from something like gravity or psionics would be like...


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#112 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 23 2013 - 03:59 AM

Ide like to see what a nova blast from something like gravity or psionics would be like...

Gravity would almost certainly be a black hole, as with Nuhvok-Kal.


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#113 Offline Onarax

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Posted Jul 23 2013 - 05:06 AM

A Psionics nova is probably some full on mental assault that leaves the target a vegetable.


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#114 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jul 23 2013 - 09:17 AM

Or a telekinetic burst that flattens everything in all directions.I don't know if I should bring this up, but I would almost think the versatility of Spherus Magnans who wield elements would be reduced. Organic systems tend to automatically regulate themselves and provide feedback to keep themselves from running out of energy, unlike mechanical systems which don't. This would leave a SM element user less energy to use at a time, and possibly make the powers more difficult to use.

Edited by fishers64, Jul 23 2013 - 09:28 AM.

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#115 Offline Isamu

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Posted Jul 25 2013 - 10:30 PM

Okay, so, you're a water toa walking through a dessert, you're all dried out and dehydrated, you can't see straight due to your dizziness. Each step takes a large amount of strength. Then, you realize, you're a water toa! You make a stream of water appear from thin air and start to drink from it, quenching your thirst.


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#116 Offline Geardirector

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Posted Jul 26 2013 - 01:55 AM

Here's one that's probably a little too farfetched, but meh, I'll post it anyway.

 

What if a Toa of Gravity could "sense" other objects around him, by "feeling" where Gravity is acting on an object. Like if somebody threw a rock, they could sense an object of that size and mass being thrown, and then get pulled down by gravity


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