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VNOG Kit

VNOG Kit

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#1 Offline The Phantom Terror

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Posted Jul 03 2013 - 06:19 PM

Well, I kept saying that I'd start this. So, after much procratination, here's what I've got. Feel free to add anything! Custom work is appreciated!

 

Character Sheet

Mask Sheet

Item Sheet

 

Most of these need to be re-sized, that's what I'll be working on next.

 

See ya!


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#2 Offline Damaracx Caratas Xarian

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Posted Jul 03 2013 - 08:14 PM

[color=#ff0000;]Ok......that's cute in all, but I don't think we're going to able to get actual sprite sheets for this unless we have a certain flash program, however, seeing as it won't get too far with out a little help I'll post a [/color][color=#ff0000;]Hakann walking[/color][color=#ff0000;].[/color]


Edited by Damaracx 7.0, Jul 05 2013 - 10:12 AM.

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#3 Offline The Phantom Terror

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Posted Jul 03 2013 - 08:18 PM

Thanks!


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#4 Offline Damaracx Caratas Xarian

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Posted Jul 03 2013 - 08:23 PM

Thanks!

[color=#ff0000;]I've got other walking poses, but I'll need time to put them in a sheet.[/color]


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#5 Offline Falcon Lord

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Posted Jul 04 2013 - 07:36 PM

This is awesome! I've always wanted a sprite kit for VNOG, I can't wait to start spriting with this.

Edited by Falcon Lord, Jul 04 2013 - 07:36 PM.

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#6 Offline Damaracx Caratas Xarian

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Posted Jul 04 2013 - 08:19 PM

I need to link this in my sig.

Edited by Damaracx 7.0, Jul 04 2013 - 08:20 PM.

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#7 Offline Nathan Evo

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Posted Jul 05 2013 - 04:29 PM

Ugh... Okay. What I'm about to say might be a little harsh, but I really wanted to just come out and say this.I am really, really sick of these "kits".This is, for all I care, part of a fad in which people rip sprites from a random LEGO flash game and call it a "kit". And frankly, I'm getting tired of it. These topics pretty much miss literally everything about what a "kit" is.First of all, I consider a "kit" to, at the very least, be usable in Microsoft Paint. I don't know if anyone's aware of this, but some people actually don't have Photoshop or GIMP; myself being one of them. How am I supposed to manually recolor one sprite with at least twenty shades? And don't suggest getting Photoshop or GIMP, because that stuff takes way too long for me to learn.Second, a kit should allow you to make custom characters that aren't just recolors of an existing character. Let's just say you want to make a character that looks like Jaller Inika but wears the "Vision Mask". That is virtually impossible, thanks to the horrible proportions of the sprites.I had something to say about the size of the sprites, but apparently you're working on that?But what bothers me the most about these "kit" is that I'm pretty sure you just took the images of the characters in the game from BS01, which is pretty much the only place I've seen the Hoto bug sprite, because according to BS01, it wasn't even in the game and could only be seen by changing your character into one by using a cheat code! Plus, the Hoto shown here has a bizarre yellowish glow by its legs, which I noticed in BS01's image of it and pretty much blew it for me.And don't compare this to the MNOLG kit just because it was based on an online game. Compare it to the useless MNOLG sprites or whatever, but not the kit by Matoran Onknu. I would actually go far enough to call that a kit, as it was customizable, usable on Paint (once you get the hang of it), and featured custom work (notably in the masks from later years that were not featured in MNOLG II) that actual effort went into!Look, I know I'm being harsher than I should, and I'm sorry for that. But to be honest, I'd much rather see sprites drawn by yourself rather than ripped from a game someone else designed in late 2005-early 2006. Or, if you think you're good enough, try simplifying the sprites so they're easier to manually recolor? Even if you're not that great, at least try making your own sprites.
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#8 Online Katuko

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Posted Jul 05 2013 - 05:34 PM

This is, for all I care, part of a fad in which people rip sprites from a random LEGO flash game and call it a "kit". And frankly, I'm getting tired of it. These topics pretty much miss literally everything about what a "kit" is.

A sprite kit is a comprehensive collection of sprite graphics used for making games and animation. Vector art can be sprites, easily. A lot of modern, high-quality sprites are high resolution and use anti-aliasing extensively.These graphics rips may be a bit limited still to be a proper "kit", but they can still be called kits in progress. Maybe they should be called "sheets" instead, but who cares. It's still the same: A collection of graphics. What I'd rather see is actually the original Flash/vector art in proper vector file form as an additional download, for even more flexibility.Plus, don't forget that despite you not wanting these graphics, they are still of high quality, and people like me - who can use them - they are more than good enough. 

First of all, I consider a "kit" to, at the very least, be usable in Microsoft Paint. I don't know if anyone's aware of this, but some people actually don't have Photoshop or GIMP; myself being one of them. How am I supposed to manually recolor one sprite with at least twenty shades? And don't suggest getting Photoshop or GIMP, because that stuff takes way too long for me to learn.

If you want to work with graphics, you have to stop using just Paint. It's that simple. Paint is fine and dandy for some things, but I will not stand by and watch good graphics be dragged through the mud just because someone can't bother to download a proper program that has layers and transparency support. It is the bread-and-butter of modern graphics.Paint.NET and GIMP are both free programs, and if you'd taken more than a minute to research them you'd realize that basically every raster image editing program out there builds on the same basics. Paint.NET does exactly what MS Paint can do, but it's got support for proper alpha values, layers, and it's got basic color-shifting tools. It's literally four clicks on a menu (Adjustments --> Hue/Saturation --> drag slider --> OK) and you've got your red shades shifted to blue shades, for example.Furthermore, Paint.NET has an interface quite reminiscent of MS Paint and is a very small download. If you want to keep using the "eraser trick" or an excessively tedious paint bucket method for recoloring stuff, fine by me, but don't blame it on the rest of us when we gladly accept smooth graphics for use with slightly more advanced programs. 

Second, a kit should allow you to make custom characters that aren't just recolors of an existing character. Let's just say you want to make a character that looks like Jaller Inika but wears the "Vision Mask". That is virtually impossible, thanks to the horrible proportions of the sprites.

This is correct. However, it is a limitation of the graphics as saved, not the ripper/uploader. The in-game graphics of the VNOG does not change the character model no matter what mask you put on, and does not include graphics for it. Still, anyone looking to use the VNOG characters for anything - no problem with using canon characters in a fan game or animation, after all - get what they need. 

I had something to say about the size of the sprites, but apparently you're working on that?

The original vector art would be splendid for resizing to any size, but I'm not sure if the VNOG used vector format (I think it did since it's still a Flash game) or if it used rendered PNGs like Inika Island Assault appeared to do with NPCs. 

But what bothers me the most about these "kit" is that I'm pretty sure you just took the images of the characters in the game from BS01, which is pretty much the only place I've seen the Hoto bug sprite, because according to BS01, it wasn't even in the game and could only be seen by changing your character into one by using a cheat code! Plus, the Hoto shown here has a bizarre yellowish glow by its legs, which I noticed in BS01's image of it and pretty much blew it for me.

You know what a "rip" is, no? Considering it is not in the game, BS01 had to rip it from the game files too. The basic poses featured in the files are also the most fitting to put in articles and image galleries, so of course we will see them first.I look forward to see more graphics ripped, so that something can be animated from this base sheet rather than them just being static images. As it is now, it is indeed more suited for basic avatar making more than any animation or game creation, but there's no reason to shoot the guy in the foot for such silly reasons as "I can't use MS Paint - pretty much the bottom of the barrel as far as image editing goes - to recolor and I don't want to learn a few clicks in any other free program available to me".So the answer to that question: "How am I supposed to recolor 20 shades" is basically "you don't, silly". You use a proper color-shift tool. 

And don't compare this to the MNOLG kit just because it was based on an online game. Compare it to the useless MNOLG sprites or whatever, but not the kit by Matoran Onknu. I would actually go far enough to call that a kit, as it was customizable, usable on Paint (once you get the hang of it), and featured custom work (notably in the masks from later years that were not featured in MNOLG II) that actual effort went into!

You work with what you got. The MNOLG and similar media had poses for mask-less beings and the masks separately, which Templar used to easily patch up a lot of different Toa and Matoran from the same bases. These graphics could be ripped and then expanded upon, and when made available to us we have pretty much what Templar worked with (except vector format) since most people around here don't have a clue what vector even is.VNOG featured many characters with unique builds, thus they got pre-composed character graphics, and that is all we have available at the moment. 

Look, I know I'm being harsher than I should, and I'm sorry for that. But to be honest, I'd much rather see sprites drawn by yourself rather than ripped from a game someone else designed in late 2005-early 2006. Or, if you think you're good enough, try simplifying the sprites so they're easier to manually recolor? Even if you're not that great, at least try making your own sprites.

Sprite rips are extremely common among fan games. Name a game, and the graphics will have been ripped and archived online. I'd actually say it was about time we started to get BIONICLE game rips. Heck, everyone is using Rayg sprites already, for example, and despite how good those sprites are it's nice to see some different graphic styles. Most every original sprite kit I see around here is underdeveloped or severely lacking in key compartments, for instance.

Edited by Katuko, Jul 05 2013 - 05:36 PM.

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#9 Offline The Legendary TNT

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Posted Jul 05 2013 - 08:16 PM

And don't compare this to the MNOLG kit just because it was based on an online game. Compare it to the useless MNOLG sprites or whatever, but not the kit by Matoran Onknu. I would actually go far enough to call that a kit, as it was customizable, usable on Paint (once you get the hang of it), and featured custom work (notably in the masks from later years that were not featured in MNOLG II) that actual effort went into!

Wait, are you separating MNOLGSCCK from my topic? Because if you just look around, they are exactly the same. The only reason I named it what I did is because I didn't think anyone would find a use at first. Plus, I felt a tad insecure back then, but that's kinda beside the point. But it's a hit! Heck, I even joke about the name on the front page. People often say "Thank you so much for bringing back the MNOLG Kit!" But, I try to keep it user friendly to MS Paint because that's how it started and that's how I started.

 

[color=#add8e6;]However, I think it's great that we finally have a VNOLG Kit due to how good the graphics were in the game. And now that I've had more experience with GIMP, I can do stuff like this. And whose to say effort can't go into this? Someone can easily make VNOLG styled graphics in GIMP if they just pay attention to the style.[/color]

 

I see not getting GIMP or some other free, yet powerful, program kinda like this: I want to build a house, but I don't want to have to learn how to use power tools, so I'll use handtools. Oh, look, my hands hurt from trying to use a screwdriver to screw in a screw.

 

[color=#add8e6;]What's so wrong with the power tools?[/color]


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#10 Offline Damaracx Caratas Xarian

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Posted Jul 05 2013 - 09:15 PM

Ugh... Okay. What I'm about to say might be a little harsh, but I really wanted to just come out and say this.I am really, really sick of these "kits".This is, for all I care, part of a fad in which people rip sprites from a random LEGO flash game and call it a "kit". And frankly, I'm getting tired of it. These topics pretty much miss literally everything about what a "kit" is.First of all, I consider a "kit" to, at the very least, be usable in Microsoft Paint. I don't know if anyone's aware of this, but some people actually don't have Photoshop or GIMP; myself being one of them. How am I supposed to manually recolor one sprite with at least twenty shades? And don't suggest getting Photoshop or GIMP, because that stuff takes way too long for me to learn.Second, a kit should allow you to make custom characters that aren't just recolors of an existing character. Let's just say you want to make a character that looks like Jaller Inika but wears the "Vision Mask". That is virtually impossible, thanks to the horrible proportions of the sprites.I had something to say about the size of the sprites, but apparently you're working on that?But what bothers me the most about these "kit" is that I'm pretty sure you just took the images of the characters in the game from BS01, which is pretty much the only place I've seen the Hoto bug sprite, because according to BS01, it wasn't even in the game and could only be seen by changing your character into one by using a cheat code! Plus, the Hoto shown here has a bizarre yellowish glow by its legs, which I noticed in BS01's image of it and pretty much blew it for me.And don't compare this to the MNOLG kit just because it was based on an online game. Compare it to the useless MNOLG sprites or whatever, but not the kit by Matoran Onknu. I would actually go far enough to call that a kit, as it was customizable, usable on Paint (once you get the hang of it), and featured custom work (notably in the masks from later years that were not featured in MNOLG II) that actual effort went into!Look, I know I'm being harsher than I should, and I'm sorry for that. But to be honest, I'd much rather see sprites drawn by yourself rather than ripped from a game someone else designed in late 2005-early 2006. Or, if you think you're good enough, try simplifying the sprites so they're easier to manually recolor? Even if you're not that great, at least try making your own sprites.

[color=#ff0000;]I was expecting something like this to happen.  I figured someone was going to get sick of it very soon.[/color]

 

[color=#a9a9a9;]This also might sound harsh, but you want to know what I'm sick of?  Comics with lazy authors.  I was once a lazy other too.  I look back my self in disgust that I didn't put more effort into my work, but you wanna know what?  I had people who patiently waited and supported me no matter bad I was.  They didn't murder my comic topic with hate comments and such.  The point is; you can't just look at something and drop the idea of it ever being a decent kit at first sight.  Also, back on to the lazy authors thing; having kits like these encourages comic makers to use image-editing programs.[/color]

 

[color=#ff0000;]So, yeah, this and what TNT said about getting GIMP or Paint.NET.[/color]

 

[color=#a9a9a9;]The Hoto Bug, is actually the only sprite I can rip completely.  I to am also bothered by the taking them from BS01 (which is why I personally would have waited to do something like this until there were actually good amount of sprites on the sprites sheets).[/color]

 

[color=#ff0000;]Useless MNOG was and is customizable.  It has a lot of sprites that can be used to customize characters and backgrounds.  It even has some custom made stuff.  I can see where you're going with the whole 'sprites that were never in VNOG that would make it go beyond what was actually in VNOG' thing because I have the same problem.[/color]

 

[color=#a9a9a9;]You're not being too harsh (I've seen way worse); you're simply speaking your mind, which is what kits like these need.[/color]


Edited by Damaracx 7.0, Jul 05 2013 - 09:37 PM.

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#11 Offline Lime Paradox

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Posted Jul 06 2013 - 02:05 AM

[color=#4b0082;][font="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, sans-serif;"]I'm kind of wondering how many of you here have actually read Gerlicky's stuff[/color][/font]

 

[color=#4b0082;][font="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, sans-serif;"]The guy is basically an MSPaint god and people saying he should use a more advanced program is really kind of hilarious[/color][/font]

 

[color=#4b0082;][font="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, sans-serif;"]ArtIII is basically full of people plunging headfirst into programs like GIMP and torturing their comics to death with sloppy and unnecessary effects because they're told it's necessary, while Gurky has been using Paint forever and his stuff generally looks more professional and stylish than probably all of modern ArtIII combined[/color][/font]


Edited by Lime Paradox, Jul 06 2013 - 02:16 AM.

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#12 Offline Nathan Evo

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Posted Jul 06 2013 - 02:14 AM

Okay, I should probably clarify. What bothers me the most is that this isn't a sprite kit. I'm aware of what a "game rip" is. Had this topic been named sonething like "VNOLG Sprite Project" or "VNOLG Sprite Collection" I probably would have easily disregarded it.

Wait, are you separating MNOLGSCCK from my topic? Because if you just look around, they are exactly the same. The only reason I named it what I did is because I didn't think anyone would find a use at first. Plus, I felt a tad insecure back then, but that's kinda beside the point. But it's a hit! Heck, I even joke about the name on the front page. People often say "Thank you so much for bringing back the MNOLG Kit!" But, I try to keep it user friendly to MS Paint because that's how it started and that's how I started.

I separated the two largely because 1. I hadn't really looked at it and 2. most of what I saw was direct sprite rips from the MNOLG games. (I just looked at it and actually noticed a mask expansion for the actual kit containing custom masks I remember making a long time ago, but that's beside the point.) It's not bad or anything.

Edited by Gerlicky, Jul 06 2013 - 02:15 AM.

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#13 Online Katuko

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Posted Jul 06 2013 - 05:20 AM

[color=#4b0082;][font="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, sans-serif;"]I'm kind of wondering how many of you here have actually read Gerlicky's stuff[/color][/font] [color=#4b0082;][font="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, sans-serif;"]The guy is basically an MSPaint god and people saying he should use a more advanced program is really kind of hilarious[/color][/font]

Being good with something doesn't mean you can really dismiss the viability of everything else. You can make excellent sprites in MS Paint, that is true. This is because classic sprites don't use transparency and are made with just the pencil tool at max zoom anyways. I have used this method a lot for my custom Rayg sprites, and it works. But when it comes to stuff like this - any graphics with a bit of AA and/or transparent parts - MS Paint is suddenly useless.Criticizing this topic for including only a few ripped graphics, that is fine. That is valid. Criticizing the images for not being MS Paint compatible when they were never supposed to be? That is just stupid. Especially when the reasoning is that he won't download a free program because he doesn't want to learn.EDIT: Ironically enough, Gerlicky's avatar seems to be made with GIMP or something after all, judging by the rotated sprite view. You can't rotate graphics like that in MS Paint.

Edited by Katuko, Jul 06 2013 - 05:23 AM.

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#14 Offline The Legendary TNT

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Posted Jul 06 2013 - 10:47 AM

Okay, I should probably clarify. What bothers me the most is that this isn't a sprite kit. I'm aware of what a "game rip" is. Had this topic been named sonething like "VNOLG Sprite Project" or "VNOLG Sprite Collection" I probably would have easily disregarded it. 

Wait, are you separating MNOLGSCCK from my topic? Because if you just look around, they are exactly the same. The only reason I named it what I did is because I didn't think anyone would find a use at first. Plus, I felt a tad insecure back then, but that's kinda beside the point. But it's a hit! Heck, I even joke about the name on the front page. People often say "Thank you so much for bringing back the MNOLG Kit!" But, I try to keep it user friendly to MS Paint because that's how it started and that's how I started.

I separated the two largely because 1. I hadn't really looked at it and 2. most of what I saw was direct sprite rips from the MNOLG games. (I just looked at it and actually noticed a mask expansion for the actual kit containing custom masks I remember making a long time ago, but that's beside the point.) It's not bad or anything.

 

Ok, I gotchya. Carry on, everyone, carry on.


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#15 Offline Nathan Evo

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Posted Jul 06 2013 - 11:34 AM

[color=#4b0082;]I'm kind of wondering how many of you here have actually read Gerlicky's stuff[/color] [color=#4b0082;]The guy is basically an MSPaint god and people saying he should use a more advanced program is really kind of hilarious[/color]

Being good with something doesn't mean you can really dismiss the viability of everything else. You can make excellent sprites in MS Paint, that is true. This is because classic sprites don't use transparency and are made with just the pencil tool at max zoom anyways. I have used this method a lot for my custom Rayg sprites, and it works. But when it comes to stuff like this - any graphics with a bit of AA and/or transparent parts - MS Paint is suddenly useless.Criticizing this topic for including only a few ripped graphics, that is fine. That is valid. Criticizing the images for not being MS Paint compatible when they were never supposed to be? That is just stupid. Especially when the reasoning is that he won't download a free program because he doesn't want to learn.EDIT: Ironically enough, Gerlicky's avatar seems to be made with GIMP or something after all, judging by the rotated sprite view. You can't rotate graphics like that in MS Paint.
Admittedly, that statement was stupid and unnecessary in retrospect. So, fine, it doesn't have to be Paint-compatible. But my main point still stands: this still isn't a kit.Also, it was made entirely in Paint and rotation like that actually is possible.

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#16 Online Katuko

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Posted Jul 06 2013 - 01:32 PM

Also, it was made entirely in Paint and rotation like that actually is possible.

May I ask where you find that option? The right-click menu only gives me 90 degree angles and mirroring, while the resize menu gives scaling and skewing but no rotation. Any combination of Ctrl, Shift, etc. I've tried so far hasn't changed the cursor into a rotational one either, like it does in other programs.Any MS Paint tutorials I've searched up only shows 90 degree rotation as well, with any non-90 rotation using copy/paste into a different program in order to achieve it.

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#17 Offline Mehul

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Posted Jul 06 2013 - 02:39 PM

Hmm I believe we are derailing from the main topic, the kit, but I'll contribute my two cents. 

 

WARNING IRRELEVENT PARAGRAPHS OF TEXT INCOMING:

 

@Gerlicky,

 

I wonder if you are perhaps indulging in a bit of trolling or just genuinely uninformed. In any case, given that you are a MS paint god, I shall assume the latter and try to inform you the best I can. Sprites were made for games. Many fans of these games "ripped" the sprites from these games to create sprite sheets and eventually these were used in fan created versions of the games, prime example being the megaman franchise. Now some people used these sprite sheets to create webcomics which were/are very successful. I would note here that none of these sprite sheets were created in paint originally. Infact recolouring some of the megaman sprites can be a royal pain.

 

Now to take the case of bzp indeed many of the popular sprite kits here are scratchbuilt and made for comics, however again if you take the case of rayg 2.5 it was largely expanded only so that it could be used in the FCG toa's quest and yet is still was used for comics as well. Heck, I made my own expansion for Katuko's Bionicle fighter.

 

What I mean is there isn't any way of defining kits solely on the basis of what tools you prefer to use or the intent of use of the kit for comics.

 

There is nothing wrong with using paint for spriting. There is nothing wrong with PS or GIMP. There is certainly nothing wrong with refusing to using anyone of them. What might be objectionable is trying to come to a topic just to say you find the kit "sickening" just because you cant use it. This kit can be relevant to many people who might want to make custom gifs or to create their own iteration of VNOLG. 

 

If you feel that this kit was not great and might be stealing the focus of other kits surely just not commenting and moving on might have been a better strategy.

As it stands now the topic is on the top of the list in the forum because of all the replies.

 

@Katuko,

 

To rotate something in paint its a rather cumbersome process but it can be done, first select object and skew it horizontaly the number of degrees you want. Then skew it vertically the negative of that number.

 

And viola! A simple process that takes seconds to do in every other program is done in under a minute with practice.

 

 

[font="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, sans-serif;color:rgb(75,0,130);"]I'm kind of wondering how many of you here have actually read Gerlicky's stuff[/font]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;] [/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;][color=rgb(75,0,130);][font="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, sans-serif;"]The guy is basically an MSPaint god and people saying he should use a more advanced program is really kind of hilarious[/color][/color][/font]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;] [/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;][color=rgb(75,0,130);][font="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, sans-serif;"]ArtIII is basically full of people plunging headfirst into programs like GIMP and torturing their comics to death with sloppy and unnecessary effects because they're told it's necessary, while Gurky has been using Paint forever and his stuff generally looks more professional and stylish than probably all of modern ArtIII combined[/color][/color][/font]

 

 

No one is telling anyone how to make their comic. They're just advising that this kit will require more advanced programs to be used effectively.

IRRELEVENT PARAGRAPHS OF TEXT OVER.

 

On topic the kit could be useful if it expands and more animation frames are added.


Edited by Mehul, Jul 06 2013 - 08:59 PM.

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Link to my comic :D

To anyone contacting me, I'm of to Uni soon so I might take time to respond.


#18 Online Katuko

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Posted Jul 06 2013 - 03:02 PM

On topic the kit could be useful if it expands and more animation frames are added.

Yes, bottom line. :P

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#19 Offline The Phantom Terror

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Posted Jul 06 2013 - 03:38 PM

I just did something that brings HF and BIONICLE together. (In Photoshop) it looks so different, yet the same.

 

Posted Image Brainified Iden

 

In fact, an Ogrum VNOG face could sprout from this!


Edited by Wasp, Jul 06 2013 - 03:46 PM.

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#20 Offline Nathan Evo

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Posted Jul 06 2013 - 06:08 PM

That's actually really neat. I take back pretty much whatever I said before. Good job.

Edited by Gerlicky, Jul 06 2013 - 06:09 PM.

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#21 Offline The Phantom Terror

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Posted Jul 06 2013 - 06:15 PM

That's actually really neat. I take back pretty much whatever I said before. Good job.

Thank you.

 

I've got a WIP of an Ogrum face concept for VNOG. Hopefully an entire body can follow!


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#22 Offline Damaracx Caratas Xarian

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Posted Jul 06 2013 - 07:03 PM

I just did something that brings HF and BIONICLE together. (In Photoshop) it looks so different, yet the same.

 

Posted Image Brainified Iden

 

In fact, an Ogrum VNOG face could sprout from this!

[color=#ff0000;]Holy Gahlok.......that's awesome......how did you even do that...[/color]


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#23 Offline The Phantom Terror

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Posted Jul 06 2013 - 07:54 PM

 

I just did something that brings HF and BIONICLE together. (In Photoshop) it looks so different, yet the same.

 

Posted Image Brainified Iden

 

In fact, an Ogrum VNOG face could sprout from this!

[color=rgb(255,0,0);]Holy Gahlok.......that's awesome......how did you even do that...[/color]

 

Simple:

 

1. Swap colors from beige to lime-green for the top.

 

2. Fill in the eyes with red.


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#24 Offline Damaracx Caratas Xarian

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Posted Jul 06 2013 - 08:59 PM

 

 

I just did something that brings HF and BIONICLE together. (In Photoshop) it looks so different, yet the same.

 

Posted Image Brainified Iden

 

In fact, an Ogrum VNOG face could sprout from this!

[color=rgb(255,0,0);]Holy Gahlok.......that's awesome......how did you even do that...[/color]

 

Simple:

 

1. Swap colors from beige to lime-green for the top.

 

2. Fill in the eyes with red.

 

[color=#ff0000;]Oh, I didn't realize the top of the head wasn't custom...[/color]


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#25 Offline Kahi

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Posted Jul 07 2013 - 01:33 AM

10/10 best kit will use for my comisc pls read them when theyre released! :) :)

 

(no but seriously though you rasterize ripped vectors and you don't make the sheet transparent? really?)


Edited by Kahi, Jul 07 2013 - 01:42 AM.

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#26 Offline Illustrious Var

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Posted Jul 07 2013 - 02:05 AM

Uh... How exactly is this a kit again?

All I'm seeing are sprites ripped from a game published by someone else, if it weren't for all the masks these images would be downright plagiarism.

 

How exactly do you expect people to be able to use this? I think you've missed the point as to what function a sprite kit is to serve, It is meant to be used as a tool to aid in ones creative endeavors. Therefore, your kit should heed to certain expectations so that it can be easily utilized in said endeavors.

 

First things first, You didn't sprite any of this. Like I said before, other then some masks there's literally nothing here that you have created on your own. 

 

Second, you have provided no actual way for people to use these sprites without copying them into Photoshop and cropping each individual piece themselves, which isn't something beginners really know how to do, so way to isolate the availability of the kit.

 

Third, You've provided a single pose for all these supposed "characters". Do you expect people to make a comic or game with sprites that just stand there? I mean sure, this is probably a work and progress and I noticed someone posting Hakann's walk cycle (which once again, isn't original work but something stolen from a game) but if that's the case you should specify in the title or description that this isn't finished yet and you'd probably avoid a lot of hostility. Word of the wise, it's best to actually finish your product before presenting it to the market. Fourth, and I'm going to sound like a broken record here but I must stress this since apparently people don't understand the meaning of accessibility. A kit is meant to be utilized as a tool. All the necessary bits and pieces that are required to customize and fully utilize the kit should be provided within kit itself, THIS IS WHY IT'S CALLED A KIT. If you expect users to actually know everything about shaders or have access to high end image programs then you aren't in the right place, that is not the purpose of a kit. If you have to edit the hue and saturation just to get a different color then you are doing it wrong. This should be able to be used on all image programs, even MSPaint. If people are to be expected to know how to edit hue levels then I am to assume they are fully capable cropping these sprites from the game themselves, ergo this kit is completely useless at this point. 

 

As someone who has invested months, years even, to crafting and improving my own kit, as well as being experienced with Photoshop for eight years, I find it truly hard to actually call this series of copy pasted images a "kit". 


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#27 Online Katuko

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Posted Jul 07 2013 - 04:55 AM

We've already been over this, Var. Bottom line is, it's on it's way to being a kit, and having the ripped graphics available can be useful for some. It is surely not as fleshed out as it needs to be a kit, but we got so few kits around here anyways that I'm glad to see even ripped graphics.Furthermore, such kits can be used in even the most basic of freeware program like Paint.NET (raster) and InkScape (vector), so not wanting to use a decent program to work with decent images is not an excuse in our time and age. If everyone thought like this we'd still be stuck with spray-paint "fire" for comic effects.

As someone who has invested months, years even, to crafting and improving my own kit, as well as being experienced with Photoshop for eight years, I find it truly hard to actually call this series of copy pasted images a "kit".

What is your kit? I can't find a topic for it.

If you have to edit the hue and saturation just to get a different color then you are doing it wrong. This should be able to be used on all image programs, even MSPaint. If people are to be expected to know how to edit hue levels then I am to assume they are fully capable cropping these sprites from the game themselves, ergo this kit is completely useless at this point.

You are apparently experienced with Photoshop, yet you fail to realize that1) Hue/Saturation adjustment is available in basically every image editing program except MS Paint, and it's an exceedingly simple action to learn after being told about it. It takes more effort to learn how to use and to apply the "eraser trick" in MS Paint, or to mess around with Skew values to "fake" proper image element rotation.2) There are lots of free alternatives to Photoshop. You don't need the industry standard for editing images, but I dare say one should at least have a tool that allows transparency (such as in these PNGs) and layers for easy editing. If presented with an image that uses transparency - such as vector art turned into PNGs - you use a program that can handle transparency. Simple as that. We're not asking you to start a nuclear reactor here, just to not whine about having to use a hammer rather than a paper roll to pound in a nail.3) A kit does not and should not be geared towards MS Paint. You know what anti-aliasing is, no? Try using that in MS Paint and you've messed up the image by bleeding colors into the background. Use a proper program with layers, however, and you can smooth the edges while still keeping the parts separated. These can then be saved into PNG sheets and keep their nic appearance. People insisting on using MS Paint just because that's what came with the computer is kind of a cancer as far as graphics go. MS Paint works for sprites and simple edits, but for anything beyond that you're far better off with a tool that is at least marginally better.4) Ripping sprites and images is something entirely different form editing them. Most people can handle being given a sprite sheet and then cut out a character from it. Ripping, however, is usually done by digging into game files of various formats and extracting data. Some emulators can do this for Game Boy games, presenting a texture page which can then be exported and edited into the sheet. Other emulators can dump textures used for 3D directly. Taking a screenshot of sprites and then cutting them out is a roundabout way of doing it, though it might work.It will not work on anti-aliased sprites, scaled sprites, vector art or similar, because a simple application of Print Screen dos not posess the ability to re-scale sprites before saving or to save alpha values along with the image. Ripping things like this vector art is therefore a matter not of just copy-pasting a screenshot, but to actually open the original Flash file (if it's an EXE this can become messy as well, and requires the right program) and then export the vector art to a proper image file format.Using MS Paint: Trivial. Useless or cumbersome in many situation, particularly with modern graphics. Ability to work with basic sprites: Good. Ability to work with transparency: Non-existent. Makes everything opaque if loaded.^ If this program is your choice, you have most of the basics but lack any ability to work with what I'd call essentials nowadays.Downloading a free program like Paint.NET: Marginal effort required. Not good for everything still, but miles ahead of MS Paint in certain aspects. Ability to work with basic sprites: Great. Ability to work with transparency: Good.^ If this program is your choice, you have all the basics and won't really need to go back to MS Paint, ever.Learning how to rip sprites oneself: Effort required. Needs special programs for opening flash or game files, as well as the knowledge of how different image formats work. It requires at least two different programs to do the job, and it is not as simple as basic image editing.^ A person doing rips has more control of what he or she is doing than one who merely edits what comes out of the ripping.Maybe someone versed in Photoshop is more keen on ripping than those muddling in MS Paint still, but I'd not compare the two. Being good at moving sprite parts around does not make you good at ripping sprites properly, as was clearly shown at the start of the earlier Inika Island Assault game rip. Ripping sprites takes an augmented set of skills beyond just the basic image manipulation of sprite sheets, and downloading a simple tool for dealing with graphics beyond MS Paint's capabilities does not compare to downloaded even more tools to rip the graphics yourself.

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#28 Offline Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen

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Posted Jul 07 2013 - 06:12 AM

Katuko, I'd like to address three things you said. I'll say flat out that I agree with Var and Gerlicky, so lemme start.

 

2) There are lots of free alternatives to Photoshop. You don't need the industry standard for editing images, but I dare say one should at least have a tool that allows transparency (such as in these PNGs) and layers for easy editing. If presented with an image that uses transparency - such as vector art turned into PNGs - you use a program that can handle transparency. Simple as that. We're not asking you to start a nuclear reactor here, just to not whine about having to use a hammer rather than a paper roll to pound in a nail.

 

 

I agree that you should have such a program. But if you're starting out and you wanna use a certain kit, you shouldn't be forced to. A kit should be able to right off the bat be used by Windows and Mac software, no eggscuses. And as far as transparency goes - it isn't here. I personally went ahead and tried to use this "kit". I took it into photoshop, found it that the files were not transparent, and when I tried to make them so... Well, have you ever tried to use a sprite after it was in a .jpg file? Yeah, that happened. AKA these are unusable. Insert snarky comment here.  

3) A kit does not and should not be geared towards MS Paint. You know what anti-aliasing is, no? Try using that in MS Paint and you've messed up the image by bleeding colors into the background. Use a proper program with layers, however, and you can smooth the edges while still keeping the parts separated. These can then be saved into PNG sheets and keep their nic appearance. People insisting on using MS Paint just because that's what came with the computer is kind of a cancer as far as graphics go. MS Paint works for sprites and simple edits, but for anything beyond that you're far better off with a tool that is at least marginally better.

 

I agree, it shouldn't be. It should be geared for MS Paint and whatever program the Mac has. And I'll say right now that you are, without a shadow of a doubt wrong about comics needing a higher capacity program. Look at Gerlicky's comics. Psycho Dogs and Carbonated Beverages (Before your time, I know, but look it up), and earlier comics made by Dark709 before he began using gimp. Comics are in no way hindered by MS Paint. If anything, I feel that comics are sometimes ruined by programs like photoshop and gimp. They lose their charm. And I repeat, these files have no layers, no transparency, and are not able to be used at all. Insert snarky, slightly witty comment here.

 

4) Ripping sprites and images is something entirely different form editing them. Most people can handle being given a sprite sheet and then cut out a character from it. Ripping, however, is usually done by digging into game files of various formats and extracting data. Some emulators can do this for Game Boy games, presenting a texture page which can then be exported and edited into the sheet. Other emulators can dump textures used for 3D directly. Taking a screenshot of sprites and then cutting them out is a roundabout way of doing it, though it might work.

 

 

I'd agree if that was what was going on here. Have you even tried using this, or are you related to the person who has made this and are trying to defend them? Lemme show you a gallery from BionicleSector01 that has relevance. Show me the difference between the "sprites" in that gallery and the ones shown here. I'd love to see 'em.

 

What you don't seem to get is that this isn't game ripping. This is a bunch of photos put into one file. And don't tell me to look at what it can become, because from what the "creator" of this "kit" seems to suggest is that aside from what we see, he likely won't get to any game rips any time soon. Now, what Damaracx posted (the Hakann walking poses) is usable. It has no white fuzziness around the sprites, and can be turned transparent for easy use.

Right now, the primary place that uses sprites and kits (Artwork 3) has a bunch of newer comic makers who are just getting into things. Like Var said, this "kit" alienates any new people. Heck, even anyone who has been around for a while and can use programs like photoshop and gimp (such as me) can't use this, because it isn't a kit. If you fully believe this to be usable, use it. Show me a proper usage of this kit. And if you can't use only what has been posted, find a way to use it and prove to me it can be used. I'll be quiet then.

 

Insert final witty, sarcastic, snarky comment here, and the clarification I can use and have used both Photoshop Elements 10 and Gimp... 2.5, I think. I've made comics using those programs and MS Paint for 6 years, and I continue to do so now.

 

And I don't mean to try and put down this guys spirits. I think he has an interesting idea and I'd love to actually see proper, usable game sprites. I think that'd be neat. What I am saying is that what he has posted so far isn't actually what I'd hoped it would be.

 

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#29 Online Katuko

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Posted Jul 07 2013 - 02:15 PM

I agree that you should have such a program. But if you're starting out and you wanna use a certain kit, you shouldn't be forced to. A kit should be able to right off the bat be used by Windows and Mac software, no eggscuses. And as far as transparency goes - it isn't here. I personally went ahead and tried to use this "kit". I took it into photoshop, found it that the files were not transparent, and when I tried to make them so... Well, have you ever tried to use a sprite after it was in a .jpg file? Yeah, that happened. AKA these are unusable. Insert snarky comment here.

You are correct in that this kit is actually on a non-transparent background. I was thrown off by the PNG extension and the fact that it is vector art, but you are right - it is then useless indeed.But I still hold that just because a kit or type of graphics uses any sort of transparent graphics, then users should not be up in arms about it not being MS Paint compatible. Friggin' MS Paint. Nowhere in the forum rules does it say that a kit has to restrict itself to the age-old idea of "one transparent color only", and neither should we, as people working with graphics, restrict ourselves to such ridiculous limits just because "oh noes no MS Paint". Heck, Mac doesn't even have a pre-installed Paint-esque program anymore. By your words we should thus not create any kits at all, because Mac users cannot use them!And heck, any simple program I find via a quick Google search - ones that are for Mac and which attempts to add Paint functionality - they use alpha channels and layers. MS Paint is stuck in the past, because it is not meant a serious tool. It is an extremely simple image editing tool added to make the OS more complete, but is not meant as a replacement for other programs that does what it can do and so much more. When we reached Windows Vista and 7, MS Paint got updated with some extra features such as anti-aliasing on brushes -- however much too late it is to save the program from "the scrap heap". Without alpha channels the AA bleeds into the background anyways and messes up the image.Stop using the existence of MS Paint as an excuse not to learn to keep up with the times. It's like watching someone refusing to wear shoes just because their feet "work fine" and you technically can make do without shoes if you take extra time and effort to avoid the sharp rocks. 

I agree, it shouldn't be. It should be geared for MS Paint and whatever program the Mac has. And I'll say right now that you are, without a shadow of a doubt wrong about comics needing a higher capacity program. Look at Gerlicky's comics. Psycho Dogs and Carbonated Beverages (Before your time, I know, but look it up), and earlier comics made by Dark709 before he began using gimp. Comics are in no way hindered by MS Paint. If anything, I feel that comics are sometimes ruined by programs like photoshop and gimp. They lose their charm. And I repeat, these files have no layers, no transparency, and are not able to be used at all. Insert snarky, slightly witty comment here.

I looked up the comic you mentioned. I did not find anything in it that stood out as particularly good quality. The jokes didn't appeal to me, and the art shows clear traces of just using the paint bucket or rectangle tool. Nothing that made this comic noteworthy enough for me to spend much time on. I read a lot of webcomics, including sprite comics, and this one does not reach up, sorry.MS Paint comics, however, are not inherently bad, not when the creators of those comics are decent at making them. But you are still dead wrong too, because Mac has no paint program anymore and because MS Paint can never do what better programs can do. You can not add transparency effects in MS Paint. You can not rotate objects freely in MS Paint without messing around with the skew settings. Yuu can not easily hue shift an image without going eraser/paint bucket for minutes where it should take seconds. You can not easily use a good background without committing fully - a mistake in the process forces you to start that image over, since you only have 3 undo actions and you cannot later shift (say) a character sprite sideways a bit without pulling the background along with it.You do not need alpha, or layers, true. Piling on fancy GIMP effects is just a way of making a comic bad in a different way. Half the comics we get around here are - quite frankly - not of good quality, regardless of what program was used. But you're a fool if you think layers and alpha channels and the hue shift tools are not useful, and you are even more of a fool if you think the scribblings of a few wannabe comic artists justify keeping the entire forum population in the stone age of sprite kits because they love MS Paint too much. 

I'd agree if that was what was going on here. Have you even tried using this, or are you related to the person who has made this and are trying to defend them? Lemme show you a gallery from BionicleSector01 that has relevance. Show me the difference between the "sprites" in that gallery and the ones shown here. I'd love to see 'em.

I have not used them. Until the provided imagery gets placed on proper transparent backgrounds and gets more fleshed out with character poses etc. I don't have any intention of using them either.Neither am I related to the member who posted this, and I don't care who posted this. I care about the others - those crying out because it's not "MS Paint compatible". Screw your MS Paint. Douse it in gasoline and light the match, if all you care about is that the images must be compatible with the lowest of low-end programs. Mac tossed out their native image editing when it became clear that any devoted freeware program could easily do the job better, since Mac programmers are focused on the OS and not the minor parts like image editing. There was no point in wasting time on developing it anymore. Windows stubbornly sticks with their mediocre image editing tool, which unfortunately causes an extreme amount of people to just stick with it and refuse to even touch another program. 

What you don't seem to get is that this isn't game ripping. This is a bunch of photos put into one file. And don't tell me to look at what it can become, because from what the "creator" of this "kit" seems to suggest is that aside from what we see, he likely won't get to any game rips any time soon. Now, what Damaracx posted (the Hakann walking poses) is usable. It has no white fuzziness around the sprites, and can be turned transparent for easy use.

Which is why I said it could become a proper kit if we get provided with more items in a proper format. I already described how game ripping is not the same as just taking a screenshot, and I lashed out more at the notion that we should limit ourselves to programs with limited functionality than the kit itself. The kit is pretty much irrelevant at this stage. 

Right now, the primary place that uses sprites and kits (Artwork 3) has a bunch of newer comic makers who are just getting into things. Like Var said, this "kit" alienates any new people. Heck, even anyone who has been around for a while and can use programs like photoshop and gimp (such as me) can't use this, because it isn't a kit. If you fully believe this to be usable, use it. Show me a proper usage of this kit. And if you can't use only what has been posted, find a way to use it and prove to me it can be used. I'll be quiet then.

I don't give a darn if it can be used or not. I do care about people desperately clinging to MS Paint, though, because there is no reason to. Do you honestly think that the people around here can't figure out the extra step of "this color is semi-transparent"? If Gerlicky was using Photoshop so many years ago as he says, he was around 10 or 11 when he started. And Photoshop is a lot more advanced than MS Paint. If a 10-yer old could handle it, then budding comic makers can -and should - learn how to use such simple things as layers. Especially when it can cut down on work time and actually improve the result. You can not tell me the ability to move an element after its initial placement is not a good thing to have. You can not tell me that if these images were properly transparent with AA intact, they wouldn't be vastly superior to the same art with jagged MS Paint edges. 

Insert final witty, sarcastic, snarky comment here, and the clarification I can use and have used both Photoshop Elements 10 and Gimp... 2.5, I think. I've made comics using those programs and MS Paint for 6 years, and I continue to do so now.

A line like this only shows that you are neither witty, sarcastic or snarky, you just wish you were. Quit it. 

And I don't mean to try and put down this guys spirits. I think he has an interesting idea and I'd love to actually see proper, usable game sprites. I think that'd be neat. What I am saying is that what he has posted so far isn't actually what I'd hoped it would be.

We can agree on this. But I do have to restate: What I am arguing here is not the viability of this kit - because it is in fact a horrid mess on a white background (see my post in the IAA kit topic for my explanation of what we need) - but the fact that MS Paint can not handle transparency and should not be used as a poor excuse for the inability to learn how to use a simple feature.

Edited by Katuko, Jul 07 2013 - 03:12 PM.

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#30 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 07 2013 - 02:22 PM

Guys, please try to stay directly on topic. I realize this topic is very borderline -- I was seriously considering closing it, but it is at least not a one-click-edit technically; it would take a little work to put those things in three images. So the topic is allowed, I have decided (whatever you want to call it). Although I would greatly encourage improvements to make it more like a standard Kit.

 

My point is, we really don't need lengthy speeches about tangential subjects -- discussion should be about the images in this topic directly.

 

Also, please stop arguing about what programs you like to use. Everyone has the right to use whichever ones they want, and it's fine to make suggestions for improving a kit to be more compatible with your preferred programs, but keep it as constructive criticism, not a fight. :) Also, I'd just like to point out that GIMP is free, so everybody can have it, and it is easy to use for color edits for this sort of thing (Colors Menu, Hue-Saturation and/or Colorize). But if someone really wants to stick with Paint, that's fine too.

 

My specific suggestions to Wasp:

 

1) Why not put them all in one image rather than three? That would especially justify this topic by making it completely easy to get these images with little work. Leaving in three separate images is only a little more convenient than leaving it in the many source files available already on BS01.

 

2) Would greatly recommend recoloring them all to some single color with a defined range as is normal for kits. (Probably keep the original colors for one copy and standardize a second copy of everyone.)

 

3) Technicality: It may indeed be better to call it something like a "sprite kit", as I believe technically these are printscreens of game sprites. I'm fine with the label kit because that is your main intention here; there's almost always some overlap between sprites and kits, but this would probably be less confusing to people (I'll edit the title if this is what you want). :)


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#31 Offline Aiwendil

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Posted Jul 07 2013 - 02:47 PM

currently working on a recolorable Iden. should get it up by next weekend or so


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#32 Offline The Phantom Terror

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Posted Jul 07 2013 - 05:47 PM

Here's my WIP on the Ogrum Face

 

Posted Image And here's the official Ogrum face piece:Posted Image

 

Ya know, A Brawl face could also come up...


Edited by Wasp, Jul 07 2013 - 06:19 PM.

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#33 Offline Aurora the cat

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Posted Jul 08 2013 - 09:38 PM

Guys, please try to stay directly on topic. I realize this topic is very borderline -- I was seriously considering closing it, but it is at least not a one-click-edit technically; it would take a little work to put those things in three images. So the topic is allowed, I have decided (whatever you want to call it). Although I would greatly encourage improvements to make it more like a standard Kit.

 

My point is, we really don't need lengthy speeches about tangential subjects -- discussion should be about the images in this topic directly.

 

Also, please stop arguing about what programs you like to use. Everyone has the right to use whichever ones they want, and it's fine to make suggestions for improving a kit to be more compatible with your preferred programs, but keep it as constructive criticism, not a fight. :) Also, I'd just like to point out that GIMP is free, so everybody can have it, and it is easy to use for color edits for this sort of thing (Colors Menu, Hue-Saturation and/or Colorize). But if someone really wants to stick with Paint, that's fine too.

 

My specific suggestions to Wasp:

 

1) Why not put them all in one image rather than three? That would especially justify this topic by making it completely easy to get these images with little work. Leaving in three separate images is only a little more convenient than leaving it in the many source files available already on BS01.

 

2) Would greatly recommend recoloring them all to some single color with a defined range as is normal for kits. (Probably keep the original colors for one copy and standardize a second copy of everyone.)

 

3) Technicality: It may indeed be better to call it something like a "sprite kit", as I believe technically these are printscreens of game sprites. I'm fine with the label kit because that is your main intention here; there's almost always some overlap between sprites and kits, but this would probably be less confusing to people (I'll edit the title if this is what you want). :)

Agreed, lets just drop the topic.  There are some forums that would consider the above flaming.

 

 

On a happier note:

Looking good :D 

 


Edited by Ora_unit_SR388, Jul 08 2013 - 09:40 PM.

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#34 Offline Damaracx Caratas Xarian

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Posted Jul 09 2013 - 12:30 AM

Here's my WIP on the Ogrum Face

 

Posted Image And here's the official Ogrum face piece:Posted Image

 

Ya know, A Brawl face could also come up...

[color=#ff0000;]Closer.....perhaps you could edit out the top of the Iden for the other mask?[/color]


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#35 Offline Loganto The Bo-Matoran

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Posted Jun 10 2014 - 09:15 PM

It is a kit! My goodness. These people and their complaints! If you don't wana customize a ripped character, just sprite one yourself! And if you can't, don't whine to us about it! Sheesh!

Sorry, had to get the wiggles out.

Now for the new later posts. Marvelous contributions! I love them all.

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