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How did the map of the Great Maze get on the Skrall sheilds?

Great Beings Great Maze Skrall sheild map

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#1 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jul 30 2013 - 05:13 PM

Did the Great Beings put it on there in case Mata Nui showed up? Did some ancient Skrall map the place?And why did the Skrall stick with the design? It's a rather eccentric design for a sheild, and probably costly to make. What significance would it have for them?
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#2 Offline Baron Von Nebula

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Posted Jul 30 2013 - 06:03 PM

The Skrall could have forgotten what it stood for, and it just became a tribal custom, like the patterns on their blades.


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#3 Offline Pikiru

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Posted Jul 30 2013 - 06:15 PM

I doubt that the Great Beings placed the design in the hands of the Skrall, because why would they give up the layout of their quite impenetrable fortress to a band of warlike beings who might try to invade the maze. I also doubt that some Skrall managed to map the place, because that maze is pretty hard to get through.

 

I personally think that the maze design is just supposed to give the impression of the maze, and that in the Skrall culture it could represent power, or wisdom, or bravery, or something. As we have seen the Skrall have a very strict social order that is set around the glory of battle and similar concepts, so I think it would be plausible that the Skrall adopted the Symbol and incorporated it into their culture just because to them it represents something significant.

 

And as long as it represents something significant they are going to continue to put it on there shields, no matter how hard they are to make, because just like with us humans if you give something meaning, people will hang onto it. If the design represents anything that I mentioned above, or anything similar, then I suspect the Skrall would do the same as us.


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#4 Offline Ghabulous Ghoti

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Posted Jul 30 2013 - 08:27 PM

I don't know how they got it, but I think price wouldn't be an issue, because the symbol is so friggin' epic that it would be worth it.

 

I doubt LEGO was really thinking about this too much when they designed the shield and decided it was a map of the valley. Perhaps they found it on the same or a similar coin to what Berix had? They could have made the shields before Bara Magna became Bara Magna and resources became scarce.


Edited by Ghabulous Ghoti, Jul 30 2013 - 08:27 PM.

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#5 Offline Infrared

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Posted Jul 30 2013 - 09:06 PM

As Pikiru said, it's likely that the symbol represented power and superiority, given that the inhabitants of SM saw the Great Beings that way and, as became evident later, those were virtues integral to Skrall society. Another possibility is that the Skrall claimed the Valley of the Maze at some point, maybe when they were living in the north and it had been abandoned by the GBs. Or, what the maze represented combined with the fact that they controlled it might have led them to put it on their shields. Regardless, I imagine that the symbol also influenced the design of the Skrall's swords, the centers of which are Skrall tribal symbols according to BS01.

 

I wouldn't imagine that the Skrall would worry about cost when they were making the shields. Pikiru's point about objects' meaning stands, but you should also remember that the Rock Tribe had access to slave labor during their time in Roxtus, if not before that.


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#6 Offline Takanuvainika

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Posted Jul 30 2013 - 09:54 PM

I don't think the difficulty of making the shields is much of a factor since they would probably last a long time considering they were know to shred other weapons.


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#7 Online Onarax

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Posted Jul 30 2013 - 10:06 PM

I really just assumed that the Skrall liked the design and shoved it on, probably because of its relation to the GBs.


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#8 Offline Toa of Italy

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Posted Jul 31 2013 - 01:38 PM

I have a theory on this issue.

 

We know that before the Core War the volcanic area surrounding the Great Volcano (around which the Great Beings later built the maze) was inhabited by the Fire Tribe and ruled by the corresponding Element Lord. However, the Fire Tribe lives in Vulcanus 100 000 years later, which suggests that at least a part of them abandoned the area.

 

After the Shattering, we also know that the Skrall moved into the area north of the Black Spike Mountains, which seems to correspond to this area (in fact, they might have forced the Fire Tribe out in the first place, though I also theorized in the past that the coming Shattering caused massive quakes in this volcanic region which forced the Fire Agori to relocate. If some Fire Agori had remained in the area it might also explain the Agori villages mentioned in Fall and Rise of the Skrall). 

 

Anyway, if the Skrall occupied the region (and BS01 actually says they fought some battles with the Baterra in the Valley of the Maze, though I don't know the source of that information), they might have felt pride that they controlled something which had once belonged to the Great Beings, even if they didn't no its significance and couldn't enter the fortress. The symbol of the maze might indicate their power, the power of a race which had managed to conquer the Great Beings' fortress itself.


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#9 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 31 2013 - 01:40 PM

I always thought it was a symbol of the quest for power that both the Element Lord of Rock and the Skrall in general wanted.

 

They were also the main group of the six cut off from their homeland in the Shattering (dunno if they had the shields before that though). So ELoR might have been more desperate for a while than the others to get the energy source in the center of the maze, to make up for this.

 

Also, given that they never did get that energy source, I assume the real maze must be MUCH, much more complex (you could solve the one on the shields in just a few minutes), so it would be only a symbol. I know one image uses a giant shield to represent the maze, and a Technic pin for the tower, but come on. :P Another image shows the maze as more linear, filling two sides of a narrow valley between the ends and the central tower. I figure something like the latter is more likely, as it portrayed the maze as more complex, but probably wider than that one or else it would also be easily solveable.

 

(I also presume, though, that there must be other defenses, or you'd think it'd have been solved long ago. Maybe the ELs, Skrall, etc. lost interest eventually.)


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#10 Offline boston100

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Posted Jul 31 2013 - 02:52 PM

i always thought the scrall found a map of the maze and thought hey this looks cool lets put it on our sheilds not knowing what it was


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#11 Offline Toa Talo

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Posted Aug 04 2013 - 07:22 AM

I read that the skrall found the swords from a cache of weapons they found maybe they also found the shields there.


Edited by Toa Talo, Aug 04 2013 - 07:27 AM.

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#12 Offline Baron Von Nebula

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Posted Aug 04 2013 - 08:43 AM

I always thought it was a symbol of the quest for power that both the Element Lord of Rock and the Skrall in general wanted.

 

They were also the main group of the six cut off from their homeland in the Shattering (dunno if they had the shields before that though). So ELoR might have been more desperate for a while than the others to get the energy source in the center of the maze, to make up for this.

 

Also, given that they never did get that energy source, I assume the real maze must be MUCH, much more complex (you could solve the one on the shields in just a few minutes), so it would be only a symbol. I know one image uses a giant shield to represent the maze, and a Technic pin for the tower, but come on. :P Another image shows the maze as more linear, filling two sides of a narrow valley between the ends and the central tower. I figure something like the latter is more likely, as it portrayed the maze as more complex, but probably wider than that one or else it would also be easily solveable.

 

(I also presume, though, that there must be other defenses, or you'd think it'd have been solved long ago. Maybe the ELs, Skrall, etc. lost interest eventually.)

I'm not sure if the complexity of the maze was made it so difficult- the traps/guards were probably the problem.  Mata Nui seemed to get through pretty easily, so maybe the maze's defenses work better at taking out larger groups/armies rather than individuals.


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#13 Offline Toa K

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Posted Aug 04 2013 - 11:40 AM

Or the defenses are programmed not to blow up the Ignika.


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#14 Offline fishers64

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Posted Aug 04 2013 - 11:54 AM

Or the defenses are programmed not to blow up the Ignika.

I doubt that - if the Great Beings believed the Toa could go rogue, they would definately suspect the Ignika to. After all, it gave a curse to one of their own!

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#15 Offline Toa K

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Posted Aug 04 2013 - 09:13 PM

But if the Ignika blows up it's like their's a life nova blast, the maze becomes alive and maybe tries to take over Bara Magna or something. Bad.


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#16 Offline Lewa Krom

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Posted Aug 04 2013 - 09:20 PM

Or maybe we're all just overthinking it?

 

If you look on the second page of Glatorian #5, it is shown that you can easily see the maze from above. (I would post a pick, but can't find any on the web ATM)

 

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Edited by Lewa Krom, Aug 04 2013 - 09:22 PM.

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#17 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Aug 04 2013 - 09:53 PM

Or maybe we're all just overthinking it?

 

If you look on the second page of Glatorian #5, it is shown that you can easily see the maze from above. (I would post a pick, but can't find any on the web ATM)

 

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Not sure if any of these are what you're referring to, but here's the ones I'm aware of (FTR, I stand by my earlier comments):

 

http://biosector01.c...of_the_Maze.png

 

That's the one i'm saying is almost certainly symbolic.

 

http://biosector01.c...ilding_Maze.png

 

That's the radically different one I suspect is likely more accurate (but I'd think it's also wider than this, so it's at least somewhat circular -- point is I suspect it's much more complex, although I do agree with the point that was raised that traps and other mechanisms in the maze may have as much to do with it as the maze itself).

 

While we're on the subject, here's the more detailed image of the tower which I take literally:

 

http://biosector01.c...tress_Tower.png

 

And a symbolic one:

 

http://biosector01.c...of_the_Maze.png


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#18 Offline fishers64

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Posted Aug 04 2013 - 10:06 PM

But if the Ignika blows up it's like their's a life nova blast, the maze becomes alive and maybe tries to take over Bara Magna or something. Bad.

True. But I'm sure there are ways of disabling the Ignika without blowing it up. The GBs would have made sure of that. I don't know if they would have put that in the Great Maze, though. It seems that the purpose of that thing was a giant failsafe in case the Ignika with Mata Nui in it ended up in Bara Magna - to have the information and the power source where he could get to them, but nobody else could. Thus the maze full of challenges and the UDD lock at the end. That's why, in my mind, Mata Nui got through. And the maze could be easily navigable, and the UDD lock could explain why nobody got in the fortress. But if nobody got in there, how did they know there was a ritzy energy source to be had? For the record, here's a picture of the Valley of the Maze (LK may be right): http://biosector01.c...of_the_Maze.pngAnd this search's second result is the second image bones mentioned: https://www.google.c...biw=320&bih=356EDIT: Ninja'd by bones.

Edited by fishers64, Aug 04 2013 - 10:08 PM.

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#19 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Aug 04 2013 - 10:23 PM

But if nobody got in there, how did they know there was a ritzy energy source to be had?

They may have simply gotten their hands on intel about why the maze was built. But BS01's wording suggests it was already stored there and the ELs knew it:

 

During the last stages of the Core War, the Great Beings ordered the Baterra to construct an impenetrable labyrinth around their fortress complex, designed to keep the Element Lords from acquiring the power source housed inside.

The ELs were made by the GBs and given authority, so they may simply have been informed about it prior to going bonkers over the EP and letting the power go to their heads. So then the maze may have been made as a response to their corruption.

 

Why they wouldn't just move it I dunno but maybe they feared it would be too easy to track. That makes me wonder if some simple machinery can be made to detect it as well.


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#20 Offline fishers64

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Posted Aug 05 2013 - 11:03 AM

 

But if nobody got in there, how did they know there was a ritzy energy source to be had?

They may have simply gotten their hands on intel about why the maze was built. But BS01's wording suggests it was already stored there and the ELs knew it:

 

During the last stages of the Core War, the Great Beings ordered the Baterra to construct an impenetrable labyrinth around their fortress complex, designed to keep the Element Lords from acquiring the power source housed inside.

The ELs were made by the GBs and given authority, so they may simply have been informed about it prior to going bonkers over the EP and letting the power go to their heads. So then the maze may have been made as a response to their corruption.

 

Why they wouldn't just move it I dunno but maybe they feared it would be too easy to track. That makes me wonder if some simple machinery can be made to detect it as well.

 

 

Nah, I doubt the Maze would be to keep the ELs out. Especially not the Rock EL, seeing as he could just blast through the maze walls and go straight to the fortress. Unless the walls were made of protosteel or something. 


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#21 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Aug 05 2013 - 06:03 PM

Well, I can doubt that too, but the BS01 wording clearly states it. The question is what source they get that from I guess. I see no real reason it can't be why they made it. Yes, the whole elemental control thing would normally be an issue but we're talking about Great Beings who can switch off elemental powers. I would presume the safeguard systems built into the maze handle that.


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#22 Offline Ghabulous Ghoti

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Posted Aug 05 2013 - 07:59 PM

Perhaps the maze was made of Earth so that none of the Elementals could have gotten through :P


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#23 Offline fishers64

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Posted Aug 05 2013 - 08:30 PM

Well, I can doubt that too, but the BS01 wording clearly states it. The question is what source they get that from I guess. I see no real reason it can't be why they made it. Yes, the whole elemental control thing would normally be an issue but we're talking about Great Beings who can switch off elemental powers. I would presume the safeguard systems built into the maze handle that.

*facepalm* Okay, that's probably true. 

 

Perhaps the maze was made of Earth so that none of the Elementals could have gotten through :P

 

Possible. Or just plain metal. Or a combo of metal and earth. It's possible that there would be machinery in there that would rearrange the maze to keep unwanted beings out of the center. :shrugs:


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