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Posted Aug 18 2013 - 05:39 AM
Posted Aug 18 2013 - 08:04 AM
In tale of the toa (which according to BS01 is the cannon telling of this event) the toa summoned each of their great kanohi in turn, without replacement, to trade for a golden kanohi.In dark destiny however, when the Toa Nuva's kanohi were stolen they were unable to summon replacements.
To answer this point - in the first case the Toa were already wearing one Kanohi when they summoned the others. I think GregF had stated that a Toa needs to be wearing a Kanohi in order to utilise their connection with a suva. Could be that wearing a mask enables that sort of mental link, or not wearing one makes a Toa too weakened to be able to focus on summoning another.
Posted Aug 18 2013 - 10:24 AM
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Posted Aug 18 2013 - 10:26 AM
Nothing wrong with that, from what I remember. I'm not too sure about this, but I think the noble Kanohi were given to the Turaga, though I'm not too sure about that.
The walls of karda nui are known to block Suva transmissions. But mata Nui's outer hull apparently did not. Gali was able to summon her Akaku to look into the red star before levying for karda nui.
Posted Aug 18 2013 - 02:10 PM
I guess Bonesii will be here shortly to make short work of these questions, but I'm gonna give them a shot if I can before...
How do the Suva work? Is there a hidden mechanism or is it all protopower.
Magic, pretty much, though protodermis properties also might come in. It is not known if the Suva were actually made from protodermis or regular stone lying around on the island, but my guess is protodermis. Toa Power is also known to be involved in the mechanism, if I'm right.
How did the turaga make the mata nui Suva.
They may have used some of their own power as Toa to give the Suva their unique properties, or then they just constructed them as Turaga and simply knew the mechanisms well enough to implement them.
Where did the Nobel kanohi go?
Do you mean to ask where in the Suva they were stored? There is no official answer for this, but my guess is that the Toa Mata replaced some of the empty slots in the Suva with noble Kanohi whent hey had not collected all the great ones yet. They were able to use them that way and when the Suva was filled with Great Kanohi, the Toa gave the noble Kanohi to the Turaga.
I remember Greg stating once that a Suva can hold more than 6 masks if need be, though. The Mata canister lids were simply set representations in order to give the cans a function.
How is the toa linked to their Suva?
Most probably a mental link, perhaps the same kind of link Gali made with Takua once. It needs Toa Power to work, that much is certain. The exact details are not known, though.
My main question is does the Toa (or Turaga) in question need to have a kanohi to trade for another on their Suva?
Yes, they do.
In tale of the toa (which according to BS01 is the cannon telling of this event) the toa summoned each of their great kanohi in turn, without replacement, to trade for a golden kanohi.
Actually that book is semi-canon, meaning that it's canon unless contradicted by another canon story source. Greg did confirm the Kini-Nui scene to be canon, though, but I'm pretty sure he did not remember the detailed text in it. So I'd say that them taking off masks and summoning more like that was non-canon, or at least a story inconsistency. The other option is what Kumata explained above.
In dark destiny however, when the Toa Nuva's kanohi were stolen they were unable to summon replacements.
Pretty much confirms the fact that Toa need Kanohi to use a Suva in the first place. Greg confirmed this once to me in a PM when I asked.
The walls of karda nui are known to block Suva transmissions. But mata Nui's outer hull apparently did not. Gali was able to summon her Akaku to look into the red star before levying for karda nui. Anyone got any idea how then?
I thought for a long while that Toa cannot access their Suva through the Great Spirit Robot barrier, but apparently I was wrong, if Gali could change to her Akaku. Though this might be another example of Greg's story inconsistencies, which are quite frequent. Perhaps it was the energy shield of Karda Nui that disabled Suva access? It wasn't a physical barrier that did it, it was energy.
Hopefully this added something to the conversation... but excellent questions, which I would like detailed answers of as well.
Listen to Vakama, he knows what he's talking about.
Posted Aug 18 2013 - 05:29 PM
How do the Suva work? Is there a hidden mechanism or is it all protopower.This was never actually revealed but it almost certainly involves the protopower of teleportation. It may be a single solid chunk of purified protodermis with the power of "Mask Teleportation for Toa and Turaga". Or it may have some components that handle the teleporting and others that handle the telepathic connection to the users. I lean toward one solid, but the LoMN portrayal of the Suva in the Ga-Metru Temple looks to at least have some machinery involved beyond this (which appears to be nonessential as it doesn't seem to be there for the Mata Nui ones).
In which case how did the turaga make the mata nui Suva.Either from airship parts (likely reforged Kanoka) or supplies brought on the airships.
Where did the Nobel kanohi go?At one point Greg insisted the Toa don't use Noble Kanohi (I asked him specifically), but this is contradicted in other sources so I tend to view this as probably incorrect as I still can't see a reason for it, other than possibly space. If he later changed his mind, I don't know.If you go with the Noble-included explanation, you could presume that there are really more slots around it than shown. They're shown inconsistently anyways in different sources, so this is possible. There's also the portrayals that had a room on the inside of them for extra masks. And it's also possible the Suva doesn't care where they're stored; so masks stored in a hut nearby could work too (after all, it can teleport them across an island, surely that wouldn't be hard).
Magic, pretty much, though protodermis properties also might come in.These two answers are essentially synonyms.
Perhaps it was the energy shield of Karda Nui that disabled Suva accessThis was confirmed. I'm actually a little surprised anyone would think this should be compared to the outer hull. We were never told of any forcefield there as far as I know. The only idea of one comes from theories, including one I had of a weak airshield that would prevent decompression in space if cracks like the ones from the GC happened. The KN one is specifically intended to contain energy, so it should be obvious this would stop teleportation.Yes, Greg unfortunately confirmed that to teleport a mask you must be wearing one. I always found this to be one of the bad decisions in the canon and I explicitly ignore it in my Paracosmos fanfics (though obviously I stick to it in my retelling, and I THINK we kept it in the EM...). It made Suva far less comforting as just one punch to the face and collecting all those other powers ends up being of no help. I don't recall if any explanation was ever given as to why, but I would guess that the halving of mental alertness from being maskless must mess up the mental connection to the Suva.Bringing up the question of the Golden Masks has been a can of worms in past discussions as it is something the canon also did fairly poorly with some obvious contradictions. The MNOG portrayal made sense with this face requirement; they went down into a room inside their own Suva and simply retrieved the Golden masks. But this has been confirmed non-canon, while the less sensible one called canon.I've got an idea to rescue this mess but I'm saving it for my retelling.
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