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Marvel Rebirth: Discussion

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#481 Offline A Magus With Class

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 01:01 PM

Well, problem with tanks is...

Tanks. Are. Slow. Or, at least slow compared to KMFs, Mobile Suits, and other stuff. If we could find a way to make tanks go at the speed of a racecar and turn just as well, it would be great.

Or better yet, dispense with the ground entirely! Super fighter jets, transformable ground-air mecha, and floating aerial artillery fortresses (like the Siegfried).

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#482 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 01:05 PM

....No. Tanks can actually be very very fast. That was kinda the whole point to the Blitzkrieg.

 

If you honestly think two legs are better for transportation then wheels and tracks, you need to do some serious reading.

 

See, legs are complex, difficult to design in terms of adding it to a mechnical device. They're also slower. Because metal, unlike organic muscle, isn't exactly meant to go at high speeds while moving around alot. How many devices, made purely of metal, have you seen being used to propel something? Engines don't count clearly, they're power sources, not what moves the vehicle.


Edited by Basilisk, Dec 08 2013 - 01:08 PM.

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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#483 Offline Simon the Digger

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 01:09 PM

Good god, I still can't leave you lot alone for a day.

Heeeeeeere is the sitch, though remember I'm speaking as the person who isn't running Hydra. Red Skull is insane. Period. Unfortunately, there's a method to his madness. For example, the Sleepers to any rational person would seem impractical as heck, and thus, no one prepares to deal with it when a skyscraper sized robot that they don't control comes to stomp around in their city. Hydra is like SHIELD in that their tech is way ahead of what the average citizen will ever even see, let alone what they have.

Bipedal robots also do have a precedence, in Marvel canon and game canon in the form of the Sentinels and the ENF models used by the Enforcers. In the real world, they'd be horrifically impractical, let alone feasible. If I had a keyboard, I could give an entire explanation on pseudo-tactics and why they're a bit more practical in the circumstances that they're used in here, namely the fact that most non-Hydra models were never designed for warfare, more like pest control, but unfortunately, I don't.

So I'll have to get back to you on that. :P

Auron; I hate you. :)

Hubert; I personally don't see any issues, but then again, I've always been a bit more accepting of the odd ideas than most. Seeing as we already have a precedence for characters being able to reach that scale for destruction, Michael +1.

Onarax; Katherine +1

Edited by The Snark Knight, Dec 08 2013 - 01:10 PM.

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#484 Online Engineer Alexandra Humva

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 01:12 PM

Just throwing it out there that, on road, the M1 Abrams gets 67 km/h, the Merkava IV gets 64 km/h, and the Japanese Type 10 gets 70 km/h. Offroad the speed usually halves. It's still pretty fast when you consider you're hauling ~70 tonnes of battle armor that tank shells literally bounce off of.


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#485 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 01:14 PM

...HYDRA is rapidly nearing "Mobile Infantry" levels of tactics.

 

For those of you who have seen Starship Troopers, you know exactly what that means.


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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#486 Offline Simon the Digger

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 01:16 PM

Hydra unfortunately has enough technology, troops, and advanced experiments to compensate, unlike our dear Mobile Infantry friends. :P
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#487 Offline brother-in-lawford

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 01:22 PM

You people are going to drive Erin into an apopleptic fit.

 

I brought him back, right?

 

I think I did.


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#488 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 01:24 PM

Yeah, but from what I'm seeing, their big terror weapons stand a good chance of being defeated by a 1930's tech level nation.

 

Honestly, if they have enough money to waste on those impractical monsters, they could have effectively bought the entire world out. Red Skull could literally crush his enemies under a wave of money.


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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#489 Offline A Magus With Class

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 01:25 PM

... so, how big are these mecha?

If they were only the size of the RX-78, that would be nice. If they were the size of EVA-01, that would be pushing it.

If they were the size of the Ideon, I would be calling ######.

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#490 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 01:28 PM

I've been more of less assuming they're around the size of the Statue of Liberty. Give or take.


Edited by Basilisk, Dec 08 2013 - 01:28 PM.

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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#491 Offline Ymper Trymon

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 01:31 PM

So basically, Stupid Chaotic Evil Stupid with a teaspoon of cunning. Red Skull sees that no one would expect skyscraper-sized robots, and so, without questioning why they wouldn't expect it, builds them as his ultimate sneaky terror weapon.

 

I mean, by his logic, since no one would expect him to salt everyone's flower gardens, he ought to get right on that.


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#492 Offline Au'Rehn Rising

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 01:38 PM

After all, nobody suspects the Nazi-Terrorist-Evil Inquisition Organization.


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#493 Offline A Magus With Class

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 01:47 PM

I've been more of less assuming they're around the size of the Statue of Liberty. Give or take.


Statue of Liberty from ground to torch is 93 meters tall.

... That's big.

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#494 Offline Simon the Digger

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 01:50 PM

I can't speak for Snelly, and ultimately his word on this is what is, but I've been thinking ~50-70m. Significantly bigger than anything a government agency has fielded in the past, but not Statue of Liberty big.
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#495 Offline Flex Till Death

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 03:43 PM

The size of the statue of liberty you say?

 

Anyone remember Mega Maid?

 

211361-megamaid_spaceballs_large.jpg


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#496 Offline Fabulous Sunshine

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 04:30 PM

"It's not just a spaceship, it's a Transformer!"

 

Also, the ENF-002 has been stated to be fifteen metres tall, which is around the height of a Valkyrie from Super Dimension Fortress Macross.

 

sentineljibraaiyl.jpg

 

And yes, I did just photoshop a Sentinel head onto a flying mecha. I have no regrets.


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#497 Online LONG LIVE TYLER

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 05:04 PM



The size of the statue of liberty you say?

 

Anyone remember Mega Maid?

 

211361-megamaid_spaceballs_large.jpg

 

I'm crying.

 

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#498 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 04:48 PM

It occurs to me that my comments could be taken as an attack against the person playing HYDRA, they weren't. I just want to make that clear. I have nothing but respect for A Billion Cats.

 

It's a billion cats. My favorite animals. I don't know how anyone could think otherwise. They eat the things that disagree with them! How can you not respect such no-nonsense problem solving?


Edited by Basilisk, Dec 09 2013 - 06:20 PM.

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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#499 Offline More Fierce Than Fire

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 05:28 PM

They eat the things that disagree with them! How you not respect such no-nonsense problem solving?

 

 

I dunno, when they don't eat the things and just let them loose to go crawl and die somewhere you can't reach, leaving a bad smell while its rotting and a horde of flies when the maggots have had their fill, that got old fast

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#500 Offline Ymper Trymon

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 05:30 PM

I think a billion cats would eventually resort to cannibalism, though. So that's a minus.


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#501 Offline brother-in-lawford

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 05:48 PM

There's more than a billion of our kind on this planet, and cannibalism isn't much practiced - it's a general taboo, let alone being fully illegal in other places.

 

And the cats generally seem smarter than us.

 

We wouldn't have to deal with Kitty Kannibalism, we'd have to deal with a bunch of cats taking over the world.


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#502 Offline Ymper Trymon

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 06:28 PM

If you put a billion of them in the same place, cannibalism will happen.


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#503 Online Princess Anna of Arendelle

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 07:27 PM

Jack, Katherine, and Michael +1


Also, you're all right about one thing, the mechas are more for the fear factor than the practicality. In all likelihood they aren't very efficient. 

 

Of course, you haven't seen what they can actually do yet, other than look really imposing. 

 

On a final note, I wouldn't eat myself. That's what bacon is for. :3 


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#504 Offline A Magus With Class

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 07:53 PM

... so, how big are they?

I would like to know if we could safely take one down without it falling down and crushing ten city blocks. What's its approximate height?

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#505 Online Princess Anna of Arendelle

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 08:23 PM

... so, how big are they?

I would like to know if we could safely take one down without it falling down and crushing ten city blocks. What's its approximate height?

 

I did say they were skyscraper size, why isn't that good enough? :c 

 

70m-80m is probably where it stands. Statue of Liberty is about 93 meters for reference. 


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#506 Offline A Magus With Class

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 08:43 PM

... So I should be using the AMX-002 Neue Ziel from Stardust Memory for side reference?
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#507 Online Princess Anna of Arendelle

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 08:45 PM

... So I should be using the AMX-002 Neue Ziel from Stardust Memory for side reference?

 

If I knew what the dickens that was I could answer that, maybe?


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#508 Offline A Magus With Class

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 08:50 PM

http://gundam.wikia....X-002_Neue_Ziel
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#509 Online Princess Anna of Arendelle

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 09:02 PM

Okay, for one thing, I wasn't really asking. Secondly, that really has nothing to do with this game and is kind of spam. Thirdly, I don't see anything about it that resembles my Sleepers. 


Edited by A billion cats, Dec 09 2013 - 09:03 PM.

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#510 Offline Ymper Trymon

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 09:02 PM

You know, I don't think you could very well safely take it down with it falling down and crushing ten city blocks. Would kind of put a crimp on the safety element, no?


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#511 Offline Commander Viral

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 09:04 PM

Doesn't that rather help out HYDRA? If their goal is to instill fear then collateral is good. 


Edited by Toa Onarax, Dec 09 2013 - 09:04 PM.

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#512 Offline Fabulous Sunshine

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 10:34 PM

What do the Sleepers look like, exactly?

 

Can't find any references to its appearance, or maybe I hadn't been paying much attention.


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#513 Offline A Magus With Class

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 10:39 PM

Ok, sorry for the spam.

That aside...

There's a piece of technology that I would like to introduce into the game, not just for my personal use, but for all players.

I'm currently calling it the High Speed Stealth Transport... But since it's looking a lot like a Lockheed Blackbird, maybe I should just call it the Mini-blackbirds?

This is would be an aircraft designed for speed and agility. Appearance wise, it would look like a smaller variant of a Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird with room for 2 people; however, its origins lie in S.W.O.R.D. stealth reentry pods used for discreet returns to Earth. The plane would be equipped with stealth technology superior to that of a B-2 Spirit. Its primary use would be to get S.H.I.E.L.D. agents quickly from one area to another with low chance of being detected if there were no other transport options, with two being stored in each Safe House.

Does that sound reasonable? (To be honest, I just thought this up as a way to get from Denver to New York within half an hour).

Edited by Man of Miracles, Dec 09 2013 - 10:40 PM.

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#514 Offline Simon the Digger

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Posted Dec 12 2013 - 10:23 AM

Yeah guys, I'm sorry I've been so inactive, but frankly, I just haven't had time. Debate has Ben eating up most of my free time. With any luck, I should be back up to speed very, very shortly.

EDIT: Speaking of jets, CM, the staff think that's fine.

Edited by Simon the Digger, Dec 12 2013 - 09:36 PM.

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#515 Offline Edea Lee

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Posted Dec 14 2013 - 12:57 PM

So how many S.H.I.E.L.D. agents will engage the Sleepers? Because if Vivus is going to do anything of the sort, I'd at least like him to have backup. Still not sure how he'd fare against a Sleeper. Though my guess is not very well. =P


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#516 Online Princess Anna of Arendelle

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Posted Dec 14 2013 - 01:03 PM

So how many S.H.I.E.L.D. agents will engage the Sleepers? Because if Vivus is going to do anything of the sort, I'd at least like him to have backup. Still not sure how he'd fare against a Sleeper. Though my guess is not very well. =P

 

I'd assume as many as they can spare. There really isn't a set number on anything. Anyone is free to engage the Sleepers. 


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#517 Offline Flex Till Death

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Posted Dec 14 2013 - 02:29 PM

 

So how many S.H.I.E.L.D. agents will engage the Sleepers? Because if Vivus is going to do anything of the sort, I'd at least like him to have backup. Still not sure how he'd fare against a Sleeper. Though my guess is not very well. =P

 

Anyone is free to engage the Sleepers. 

 

And die.


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#518 Offline A Magus With Class

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Posted Dec 14 2013 - 02:44 PM

Honestly, unless the Army has more of those ENFs in storage somewhere, all we can do is bombard the Sleeper with missiles and hope it actually does anything. Basilisk's plan of having tanks in the streets and utilizing the air force sounds good. I bet that most of the characters who do any damage to the thing will either be in a tank, a plane, or a mecha of their own.

Speaking of which, does S.H.I.E.L.D. have anti-gravity technology? Floating artillery fortresses anyone? Upgrade a Vimana to modern tech levels and use it as a flying missile base?

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#519 Offline Au'Rehn Rising

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Posted Dec 14 2013 - 02:47 PM

Construct, your plans are so silly.

 

I have a better plan, but none of you will like it~ =3


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#520 Offline More Fierce Than Fire

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Posted Dec 14 2013 - 02:50 PM

There's the old reliable plan of nobbling its joints somehow. If someone has a character capable of dumping loads of sand on the thing, someone with heat-based powers (I had Persephone in mind, since she's my character an all, but anyone with energy blasts would work just as well) could then vitrify that sand and encase bits of it in glass. You can freeze up its legs or something doing that


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The bells were ringing in the dale

And men looked up with faces pale

smaug.jpg

The dragon's ire more fierce than fire

Laid low their towers and houses frail





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