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Why Greg, WHY??? :'(

 

Boring through the entire moon and out into space makes even less sense. The core is the centre of gravity, so Pahrak-Kal should end up there if anywhere. (Even if it could melt through rock with absolutely no resistance, it would still end up in simple harmonic motion around the core, with the amplitude of oscillation being the distance from the core to Mata Nui...)

 

Getting further from the centre of gravity than when on Mata Nui requires Pahrak-Kal to have conjured kinetic energy out of thin air, in order to turn it into gravitational potential energy.

 

I don't really want to add "magical retcon trips into space that violate conservation of energy" to the list of things that Energised Protodermis has to be used to explain...

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I suppose that it could be possible that the MU's side of Aqua Magna was facing away from Bara Magna while this happened, and Pahrak-Kal was pulled out of the core by Bara Magna's gravity.

Unfortunately you'd have to be ignoring a lot of factors to make this work. The pull of BM would have to be unbelievably strong in order to have that great of an effect on Pahrak Kal. 

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Perhaps, then, BS01 will just exercise its editor's discretion and not mention this answer.  :lookaround:

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Unfortunately you'd have to be ignoring a lot of factors to make this work. The pull of BM would have to be unbelievably strong in order to have that great of an effect on Pahrak Kal. 

 

It pulled the Ignika in from the MU.

 

It could have done the same for Pahrak-Kal.

Edited by TheSkeletonMan939

 

 

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Unfortunately you'd have to be ignoring a lot of factors to make this work. The pull of BM would have to be unbelievably strong in order to have that great of an effect on Pahrak Kal.

It pulled the Ignika in from the MU.

 

It could have done the same for Pahrak-Kal.

Nah, the Ignika was launched into space by the MU. Wasn't just gravity.

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Unfortunately you'd have to be ignoring a lot of factors to make this work. The pull of BM would have to be unbelievably strong in order to have that great of an effect on Pahrak Kal.

It pulled the Ignika in from the MU.

 

It could have done the same for Pahrak-Kal.

Nah, the Ignika was launched into space by the MU. Wasn't just gravity.

 

Of course. But you could argue that the Ignika could have been pulled in to the planet, and not gone somewhere else, by the immense gravitational influence of Bara Magna.

Edited by TheSkeletonMan939

 

 

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The ignika apparently had escape velocity. Pahrak-Kal might not have.

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Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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The ignika apparently had escape velocity. Pahrak-Kal might not have.

The Ignika was probably fired out at a pretty fast speed, seeing that Teridax wanted to get rid of Mata Nui for good. The only for Pahrak-Kal would have had would have been from his downward falling, which might have been pretty taxing on his velocity in the first place, seeing that he was melting through rock. 

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Actually, I could see the Plasma Bohrok adding rocket power to his downward fall, but it seems like Greg's forgetting that he would melt himself, like the Gravity Kal imploded himself. Vacuum made sense not to destroy itself. Plasma? No.

 

(Really Vacuum should have been smashed to bits against the ceiling... or really survived just fine but suffocated everybody else in the room... but I digress... :P)

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Uh, Pahrak-Kal melted itself to a puddle IIRC. What crazy logic is this?

 

 

 

The Pahrak-Kal's armored body was glowing with a plasma fueled heat so intense that the stone floor started to melt beneath its feet.

 

"I will contain this power!" The Pahrak-Kal sounded drippy and slow, as if it too were melting. "I am Pahrak-Kal! I cannot be defeated!" 

 

But a moment later, the floor beneath the Pahrak-Kal gave way entirely, and the creature dropped away through it out of sight.

 

Memory illusion derp. Although I would just headcanon that the Pahrak-Kal melted itself to nothing somewhere in the middle of Aqua Magna. Problem solved. 

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Somewhere, under the ocean, lies a puddle of complaining bohrok, still thinking it can control Nuva-level power.

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Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Do we know when the nuva-enhanced powers of Pahrak-Kal gave out? It could be possible that he never fully made it to the center of AM, but rather somewhere underground or inside the MU.

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He should have been crushed if he made it to the core, he was not the one with gravity powers. And achieving escape velocity from the core of a planet would be exponentially more difficult than from the surface. And Toa Nuva have ridiculous powers compared to regular toa if they could burrow through an entire planet. Why couldn't Pahrak have just melted? Too violent for kids or something? Tell that to the Matoran that didn't get revived by the red star because there wasn't enough body left after the sharks got through with her (the one the Barraki killed)

Edited by ToaKapura1234
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He should have been crushed if he made it to the core, he was not the one with gravity powers. And achieving escape velocity from the core of a planet would be exponentially more difficult than from the surface. And Toa Nuva have ridiculous powers compared to regular toa if they could burrow through an entire planet. Why couldn't Pahrak have just melted? Too violent for kids or something? Tell that to the Matoran that didn't get revived by the red star because there wasn't enough body left after the sharks got through with her (the one the Barraki killed)

 

i mean, the barraki story was a long time after the B-kal, and they were also a whole lot more uh, grim? about their actions than 2003 cared to be. :0

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Why couldn't Pahrak have just melted? Too violent for kids or something? 

Well, seeing that there isn't a molten core of Aqua Magna, he couldn't have melted. Instead he sat in his hole for all of eternity, or was crushed by the gravity, depending on how deep he made it and how strong his Bohrok-Kal armor was. 

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Why couldn't Pahrak have just melted? Too violent for kids or something? 

Well, seeing that there isn't a molten core of Aqua Magna, he couldn't have melted. Instead he sat in his hole for all of eternity, or was crushed by the gravity, depending on how deep he made it and how strong his Bohrok-Kal armor was. 

 

 

"And Pahrak has to take a time out, in the time out hole."

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Why couldn't Pahrak have just melted? Too violent for kids or something? 

Well, seeing that there isn't a molten core of Aqua Magna, he couldn't have melted. Instead he sat in his hole for all of eternity, or was crushed by the gravity, depending on how deep he made it and how strong his Bohrok-Kal armor was. 

 

Uh, out of control plasma power = melting. 

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Why couldn't Pahrak have just melted? Too violent for kids or something? 

Well, seeing that there isn't a molten core of Aqua Magna, he couldn't have melted. Instead he sat in his hole for all of eternity, or was crushed by the gravity, depending on how deep he made it and how strong his Bohrok-Kal armor was. 

 

Uh, out of control plasma power = melting. 

 

Wasn't it sort of implied that his armor would be tough enough to resist his own element?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under that impression. 

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Why couldn't Pahrak have just melted? Too violent for kids or something? 

Well, seeing that there isn't a molten core of Aqua Magna, he couldn't have melted. Instead he sat in his hole for all of eternity, or was crushed by the gravity, depending on how deep he made it and how strong his Bohrok-Kal armor was. 

 

Uh, out of control plasma power = melting. 

 

Wasn't it sort of implied that his armor would be tough enough to resist his own element?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under that impression. 

 

It was meant to resist his own element at it's natural power level, not the power he had when he was full of the energy from the Nuva Symbols.

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Why couldn't Pahrak have just melted? Too violent for kids or something? 

Well, seeing that there isn't a molten core of Aqua Magna, he couldn't have melted. Instead he sat in his hole for all of eternity, or was crushed by the gravity, depending on how deep he made it and how strong his Bohrok-Kal armor was. 

 

Uh, out of control plasma power = melting. 

 

Wasn't it sort of implied that his armor would be tough enough to resist his own element?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under that impression. 

 

It was meant to resist his own element at it's natural power level, not the power he had when he was full of the energy from the Nuva Symbols.

 

Shoot, you're right. Wish I had remembered Nuhvok-Kal's fate before posting that. 

Anyway, does this mean that canon was never really changed? Pahrak-Kal was still melted under the surface of AM, which is what we were told originally, right? 

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bZpOwEr

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Uh, out of control plasma power = melting.

Wasn't it sort of implied that his armor would be tough enough to resist his own element?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under that impression.

 

It was meant to resist his own element at it's natural power level, not the power he had when he was full of the energy from the Nuva Symbols.

 

Yarr, but the floor wasn't designed to resist even his normal power level, let alone the enhanced one. So he would, logically, drop out of the floor first, then get melted. 

 

 

Anyway, does this mean that canon was never really changed? Pahrak-Kal was still melted under the surface of AM, which is what we were told originally, right?

In my mind, yes. The answer doesn't make too much sense. 

 

Pulling Greg quotes, here we go: 

 

2008

 

10. Is Pahrak-Kal destroyed yet? I mean, a Bohrok-Kal can't withstand the heat of the planet core, right?

 

10) I would think one way or the other, he is toast, yes

 

2010

 

2) When Pahrak-kal's power overloaded and he melted through the floor, did he burn through Mata-nui's face, or did he roll of his face into Aqua Manga?

3) If he did land in Aqua Magna, does that mean he is now on Spherus Magna? 

 

2-3) Regardless of whether he is in Mata Nui's head or in Aqua Magna, he would still be on Spherus Magna, since both are there.

That's confusing, but whatever. Going back in time...

 

Jun 9 2003, 11:05 AM

11. Q: What happed to Pahrak-Kal? Did he melt or fall through a hole?

 

A: His sheer. intense heat melted a hole in the floor which he fell through. I am sure he was falling for a while, since he was probably melting his way as he went.

 

23. What happed to Pahrak-Kal? Did he melt or fall through a hole?

 

His sheer. intense heat melted a hole in the floor which he fell through. I am sure he was falling for a while, since he was probably melting his way as he went. 

 

Mar 26 2007, 07:31 AM

 

4) What is the current status of the Bohrok and the Kal? I.e. Bohrok; back in nests, hives, or working for Matoran? Kal; I understand Nuhvok Kal is definitely dead, seeing as he collapsed into a singulaity-- But how about Panhrak? If he had necessary equipment, e.g. breathing pack etc. he could hypothetically still be alive, though lost in the cosmos?

 

4) Back in nests -- they returned to them during the Kal storyline in 2003. And Pahrak-Kal fell into the core of the planet, so even if he survived, it 's going to take him ages to climb back out again.

Unfortunately, the only burning answer is in reference to a superheated planet core. "One way or the other" could refer to the plasma power, but Greg has enough wriggle room to slip this one in without retconning anything.

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Not sure myself but maybe he is the core now? Well Until Aqua Magna returned to Spheres Magna that is. I mean it begs the question "How far can you go into the woods?" answer "Half way. And further and you'd be walking back out." This train of though works for a planet as well. Seeing as how you cannot fall up. Stands to reason that if he was falling due to the planet's gravity that he would continue to fall until he hit the center of gravity for the planet. Now seeing as how he was "burning" and possibly "Spinning" one could say that if Aqua Magna did not yet have a Molten core(It had a core of some kind already as the planet has an exact center of gravity) It does now in the form of Pahrak-Kal.

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Not sure myself but maybe he is the core now? Well Until Aqua Magna returned to Spheres Magna that is. I mean it begs the question "How far can you go into the woods?" answer "Half way. And further and you'd be walking back out." This train of though works for a planet as well. Seeing as how you cannot fall up. Stands to reason that if he was falling due to the planet's gravity that he would continue to fall until he hit the center of gravity for the planet. Now seeing as how he was "burning" and possibly "Spinning" one could say that if Aqua Magna did not yet have a Molten core(It had a core of some kind already as the planet has an exact center of gravity) It does now in the form of Pahrak-Kal.

While he would eventually end up in the center, it would not happen the way you said it would, assuming real physics.  I know that real physics don't apply in Bionicle but... oh, why not.

 

He would actually fall past the center of Aqua Magna and continue toward the other side of the planet.  As he did this, however, gravity would be pulling him back toward the center and his speed would decrease until he stopped near (BUT NOT QUITE AT) the other side of the planet.  Then, he would fall back toward the center.  Once again he would pass the center, and continue toward the surface, this time toward Mata Nui.  Once again he would slow down and stop before he reached the surface, but it would happen EVEN SOONER THAN LAST TIME.  This would keep happening, until he eventually settled at the core.

 

It doesn't really change your conclusion, but the way you came to it didn't make much sense.

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Fair enough. It is very possible that upon striking the core at an increased speed due to his own falling velocity added to the increase gravity of approaching the core could repel him much the same way scientist today use the gravitational pull of the outer planets to speed up their satellite for deep space exploration. So he could have "bounced" off the core and proceeded to try and escape the planet out the other side.

 

Still I think that due to the effects of gravity we may be talking black hole style. Where the closer you get to the center the faster you fall and the less chance you have to get out. Not to mention that you have to factor in not only the gravity at Aqua Magna's core but the sheer pressure of having the entirety of the planet on top of him. You know the law of Motion: "An object in motion will remain in motion until met with an equal or greater force." So adding in the weight pushing on his body times the force of gravity I still don't see him getting very far from the core once he finally reaches it.

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Fair enough. It is very possible that upon striking the core at an increased speed due to his own falling velocity added to the increase gravity of approaching the core could repel him much the same way scientist today use the gravitational pull of the outer planets to speed up their satellite for deep space exploration. So he could have "bounced" off the core and proceeded to try and escape the planet out the other side.

 

Still I think that due to the effects of gravity we may be talking black hole style. Where the closer you get to the center the faster you fall and the less chance you have to get out. Not to mention that you have to factor in not only the gravity at Aqua Magna's core but the sheer pressure of having the entirety of the planet on top of him. You know the law of Motion: "An object in motion will remain in motion until met with an equal or greater force." So adding in the weight pushing on his body times the force of gravity I still don't see him getting very far from the core once he finally reaches it.

If Aqua Magna is a sphere (which it might not be):

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/mechanics/earthole.html

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Well actually first he would get smushed into a super dense shape at the core (which would kill him) due to the ridiculously high gravity and then do that pendulum thing assuming he had enough plasma left to melt through the other side that is. But either way he could never escape the planet without and extra boost besides his momentum and gravity. And he would have been fatally crushed...

Edited by ToaKapura1234
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Wait a minute, it says you would be weightless in the center of gravity? Is that accurate? I mean I know larger planets have larger gravitational pulls so a smaller planet would... ok I am confused now...

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I dug out my old physics textbook to write this.  To make my life easier, this analysis assumes that Pahrak-Kal's plasma negates the resistance of the planet, and that he fell directly through the planet's axis of rotation.

When Pahrak-Kal initially loses control of his powers he is moving at zero meters per second. (duh)
He is accelerating downward at a constant rate of g.  On Earth this is 9.8 meters per second per second, but I do not know it's value on Aqua Magna.  We will leave it as g.  

His speed when reaching the core is defined as vf2 = vi2 + (2g)(s).  v= 0, so it's just the square root of 2gs.  s is the distance from the surface to the core.  I don't know the value, so we leave it as s.

Now, leaving the core his acceleration is -g and the initial and final speeds are flipped.  Everything else remains the same.  So, how far does he travel on the way back? We have another equation.  Accounting for gravity giving a negative acceleration:
vf2 = vi2 - (2g)(s|), where  s| is the distance he travels past the core.  

This time v= 0, and v= sqrt(2gs). so we get 0 = vi2  - (2g)(s|).  This simplifies to  vi = 2g(s|), then (sqrt(2gs))2 = 2g(s|).  The square cancels out the square root and you get  2gs = 2g(s|).  Divide both sides by 2g and we find out that with no resistance gravity ensures that Pahrak-Kal stops EXACTLY as far away from the core as he started, only on the other side.  

The process then repeats, with him falling back toward the robot.

When we factor in the resistance of the planet on the first pass, as well as air resistance on all of the others; s gets smaller and smaller each time, until he settles in the center.  

...Until of course, we realize that he never passes the center because the planet is rotating...

THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is why Greg doesn't bother with real-world physics.

Edited by N.S.M.8
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Well did you factor in the Planet's rotation And thus the resistance of bouncing back and forth in his own tunnel? Yeah that is a lot of math that I am not sure too many of the younger crowd is going to understand. From what I read on your link according to the math he would never actually settle in the core unless an extra outside force helps to slow him down. Kind of like them balls in a psychiatrist's office that perpetually bounce back and forth until an outside force stops them. He would forever be caught in limbo of falling back towards the core and being thrown out the other side only to fall again. Though this factors in a clean path through the planet. What is likely the case is the resistance of the planets crust/core helped slow him down enough(even if it took a little while) to become the core.

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honestly i'm drawn more towards the "climbed back out" answer mostly because it leaves a possible total of half the bohrok-kal alive and well(?) and that's cool with me. :U

Assuming he wasn't incinerated, his plasma shields would make good climbing tools.

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Well did you factor in the Planet's rotation And thus the resistance of bouncing back and forth in his own tunnel? 

At this point, he basically a large ball of plasma.  If the planet rotated (which it will) he wouldn't carve a tunnel toward the core.  He would instead burrow a curved path away from the core.

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Not to derail the Pahrak-Kal conversation, but could someone clarify to me about what happened to the Krana-Kal?

 

I know that at least some of them were able to escape from their shells before their destruction, but did all of them?

And what about the other 30 or so Krana-Kal that weren't in the Bohrak-Kal shells when they were defeated?  Do they exist somewhere else?

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Not to derail the Pahrak-Kal conversation, but could someone clarify to me about what happened to the Krana-Kal?

 

I know that at least some of them were able to escape from their shells before their destruction, but did all of them?

And what about the other 30 or so Krana-Kal that weren't in the Bohrak-Kal shells when they were defeated?  Do they exist somewhere else?

Personally, I'd say all the krana-kal except for Kohrok died in various ways, Kohrak's krana might have come out of the battle with tinnitus, hearing problems or loss, but I'm sure it's fine. 

 

I assumed there was only six seen in the story and the 48 variations of the krana-kal were collectibles that never showed up in the story. 

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Not to derail the Pahrak-Kal conversation, but could someone clarify to me about what happened to the Krana-Kal?

 

I know that at least some of them were able to escape from their shells before their destruction, but did all of them?

And what about the other 30 or so Krana-Kal that weren't in the Bohrak-Kal shells when they were defeated?  Do they exist somewhere else?

Personally, I'd say all the krana-kal except for Kohrok died in various ways, Kohrak's krana might have come out of the battle with tinnitus, hearing problems or loss, but I'm sure it's fine. 

 

I assumed there was only six seen in the story and the 48 variations of the krana-kal were collectibles that never showed up in the story. 

 

You could also include Gahlok-Kal in that, since it's armor was rendered unusable from simple collateral damage. If the Krana-Kal was able to leap out of its shell it would have been out of harm's way, since the flying Exo-Toa parts were en route to the armor, not the Krana-Kal. I also says on BS01 that Lehvak-Kal's Krana-Kal is separate from the armor, so I assume that means that it ejected while it was flying upward. If it survived the fall or not, that's unknown. 

Tahnok-Kal is trapped within an electrical cage, so its Krana-Kal couldn't have escaped. Pahrak-Kal probably didn't eject its Krana-Kal, since it would have been incinerated. And Nuhvok-Kal's Krana Kal wouldn't have been able to do anything to save itself since the gravitational field was crushing it. 

 

Coincidentally, the three that could possibly have saved their Krana-Kal are the ones that make Bohrok-Kal Kaita Ja, and the ones that couldn't have make Bohrok-Kal Kaitia Za. 

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Not to derail the Pahrak-Kal conversation, but could someone clarify to me about what happened to the Krana-Kal?

 

I know that at least some of them were able to escape from their shells before their destruction, but did all of them?

And what about the other 30 or so Krana-Kal that weren't in the Bohrak-Kal shells when they were defeated?  Do they exist somewhere else?

Personally, I'd say all the krana-kal except for Kohrok died in various ways, Kohrak's krana might have come out of the battle with tinnitus, hearing problems or loss, but I'm sure it's fine. 

 

I assumed there was only six seen in the story and the 48 variations of the krana-kal were collectibles that never showed up in the story. 

 

You could also include Gahlok-Kal in that, since it's armor was rendered unusable from simple collateral damage. If the Krana-Kal was able to leap out of its shell it would have been out of harm's way, since the flying Exo-Toa parts were en route to the armor, not the Krana-Kal. I also says on BS01 that Lehvak-Kal's Krana-Kal is separate from the armor, so I assume that means that it ejected while it was flying upward. If it survived the fall or not, that's unknown. 

Tahnok-Kal is trapped within an electrical cage, so its Krana-Kal couldn't have escaped. Pahrak-Kal probably didn't eject its Krana-Kal, since it would have been incinerated. And Nuhvok-Kal's Krana Kal wouldn't have been able to do anything to save itself since the gravitational field was crushing it. 

 

Coincidentally, the three that could possibly have saved their Krana-Kal are the ones that make Bohrok-Kal Kaita Ja, and the ones that couldn't have make Bohrok-Kal Kaitia Za. 

 

I believe it was stated on Biosector01 that all the Krana-Kal escaped, and later the Turaga went down into the tunnels and collected them to keep them "safe" like they did with the Bohrok's Krana.

 

Also yes there were actually 48 different Krana-Kal, the Bohrok-Va just kept the others on reserve when the Kal needed them replaced.

 

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Formerly Iron_Man5

 

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Not to derail the Pahrak-Kal conversation, but could someone clarify to me about what happened to the Krana-Kal?

 

I know that at least some of them were able to escape from their shells before their destruction, but did all of them?

And what about the other 30 or so Krana-Kal that weren't in the Bohrak-Kal shells when they were defeated?  Do they exist somewhere else?

Personally, I'd say all the krana-kal except for Kohrok died in various ways, Kohrak's krana might have come out of the battle with tinnitus, hearing problems or loss, but I'm sure it's fine. 

 

I assumed there was only six seen in the story and the 48 variations of the krana-kal were collectibles that never showed up in the story.

 

You could also include Gahlok-Kal in that, since it's armor was rendered unusable from simple collateral damage. If the Krana-Kal was able to leap out of its shell it would have been out of harm's way, since the flying Exo-Toa parts were en route to the armor, not the Krana-Kal. I also says on BS01 that Lehvak-Kal's Krana-Kal is separate from the armor, so I assume that means that it ejected while it was flying upward. If it survived the fall or not, that's unknown. 

Tahnok-Kal is trapped within an electrical cage, so its Krana-Kal couldn't have escaped. Pahrak-Kal probably didn't eject its Krana-Kal, since it would have been incinerated. And Nuhvok-Kal's Krana Kal wouldn't have been able to do anything to save itself since the gravitational field was crushing it. 

 

Coincidentally, the three that could possibly have saved their Krana-Kal are the ones that make Bohrok-Kal Kaita Ja, and the ones that couldn't have make Bohrok-Kal Kaitia Za.

 

I believe it was stated on Biosector01 that all the Krana-Kal escaped, and later the Turaga went down into the tunnels and collected them to keep them "safe" like they did with the Bohrok's Krana.

 

Also yes there were actually 48 different Krana-Kal, the Bohrok-Va just kept the others on reserve when the Kal needed them replaced.

 

After the destruction of the Bohrok-Kal, the Turaga captured several of the Krana-Kal which had managed to eject themselves from the shells before their powers destroyed them.

I believe that this implies that only some of the Krana-Kal escaped. I mean, how could Nuhvok-Kal's Krana-Kal have possibly ejected without being destroyed along with its armor?

Edited by The Irrational Rock
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bZpOwEr

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I think the official story canon is that all the Krana-Kal escaped (since this was 2003 after all and they wanted to avoid killing living creatures in the story), but really that doesn't make sense.  There was simply no way for most of them to eject in time.  Nuvhok-Kal was sucked into black hole.

idk man

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