Official Greg Compendium

[bonesiii]

Those (probably) aren't Ruki though. They are built differently, and BS01 has a picture of that fish in their "Unnamed Rahi" gallery.

Doesn't matter -- they're portrayed as biomechanical because being made out of pieces like that was the animators' way to show that.

 

I was under the impression they were Ruki though, because the set version was kinda ugly and they probably wanted them to look more like how they imagined Ruki would "really look". Might be able to test this by looking through graphics from the game and if there's a different fish that's clearly more like Ruki, it would be something else. (BS01 wouldn't call them Ruki without direct confirmation either way.)

[Irrie]

 

Were the Ga-Matoran fishermen on Metru Nui? If they were, then that could imply that Matoran could consume antidermis-based creatures, but not protodermis.

 

Why antidermis? The only known things made of antidermis are Makuta, Kraata, and (maybe) Rahkshi.

 

Rahi are made of antidermis. 

[N.S.M.8]

 

 

Were the Ga-Matoran fishermen on Metru Nui? If they were, then that could imply that Matoran could consume antidermis-based creatures, but not protodermis.

 

Why antidermis? The only known things made of antidermis are Makuta, Kraata, and (maybe) Rahkshi.

 

Rahi are made of antidermis. 

 

Huh?

 

 

BS01's Rahi page:

 

 

Rahi are the fauna of the Matoran Universe, biomechanical creatures composed of organic and inorganic Protodermis. 

And later

 

 

Most of the Rahi of the Matoran Universe were created by the Makuta, whose technique involved blending various Viruses in vats of Liquid Protodermis. 

BS01 has had errors before, so if you have a source for Antidermis Rahi, please share it.

[Irrie]

 

 

 

Were the Ga-Matoran fishermen on Metru Nui? If they were, then that could imply that Matoran could consume antidermis-based creatures, but not protodermis.

 

Why antidermis? The only known things made of antidermis are Makuta, Kraata, and (maybe) Rahkshi.

 

Rahi are made of antidermis. 

 

Huh?

 

 

BS01's Rahi page:

 

 

Rahi are the fauna of the Matoran Universe, biomechanical creatures composed of organic and inorganic Protodermis. 

And later

 

 

Most of the Rahi of the Matoran Universe were created by the Makuta, whose technique involved blending various Viruses in vats of Liquid Protodermis. 

BS01 has had errors before, so if you have a source for Antidermis Rahi, please share it.

 

Oh, looks like I was wrong. I must have mistook antidermis with the viruses. 

 

But I do remember that Greg once said that the Ko-Matoran would eat Muaka. I don't have the source on me, but it might be somewhere back in this topic. I suppose that the Rahi had something about them that allowed the Matoran to absorb them. Maybe it was in the viruses? 

Edited June 6, 2015 by The Irrational Rock

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

this feels like one of those times when bionicle's over-convolution corners itself, like:

 

Everything is Bio-mechanical, that is to say, part flesh part metal. and it's been shown beings need energy to keep living, even in bionicle's world, so the logical conclusion is matoran hunt the rahi and eat the flesh parts, a simple solution that doesn't even need explaining to make sense.

 

but, somehow we're at:

 

the beings of this universe are bio-mechanical- except both the Bio and the Mechanical are made of protodermis, so they're really 100% synthetic and metallic with little you could call "bio" on them. plus, matoran don't "eat" with their mouths, and can only absorb certain things with their fingers (for who knows what reason) and convert them into energy, (even though with "bio" components, having a stomach wouldn't be too world-shattering a thing? :0 )

 

 

To put this into perspective, the most logical conclusion the Bionicle story team came to is apparently that these humanoid beings just absorb metal fish completely through their hands.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Rahkshi Lalonde

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

I don't think it's ever been confirmed that all protodermis is metallic.

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

well pardon me for coming to the conclusion a material introduced as a metal and prominently shown as a silver-colored metal in essentially all story material is going to be metallic.

 

(sorry if that came out rudely. Bionicle's constant overcomplication of exceedingly simple concepts is just such a major frustration to me. :t)

Edited June 6, 2015 by Rahkshi Lalonde

[Sergei Rahkmaninoff]

I don't think it's ever been confirmed that all protodermis is metallic.

 

It's been confirmed, in fact, that not all Protodermis is metallic. The fleshy bits on MU inhabitants are supposedly 'organic Protodermis,' MU water is actually 'liquid Protodermis,' and Toa Seals are made of 'crystalline Protodermis.' Basically everything in the MU is some form of Protodermis.

 

I will agree that this is kind of confusing, but after all, this is the wondrous wackiness that is Bionicle.

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

 

I don't think it's ever been confirmed that all protodermis is metallic.

 

It's been confirmed, in fact, that not all Protodermis is metallic. The fleshy bits on MU inhabitants are supposedly 'organic Protodermis,' MU water is actually 'liquid Protodermis,' and Toa Seals are made of 'crystalline Protodermis.' Basically everything in the MU is some form of Protodermis.

 

I will agree that this is kind of confusing, but after all, this is the wondrous wackiness that is Bionicle.

 

 

It could still be a metal. After all, calcium is metal, but it's found in bones and dairy products.

 

That said, I'm still pretty sure it's not. It almost seems more like plastic. It's an artificial substance made (I believe) from energized protodermis, a natural resource that comes from the ground. Most modern plastic is petroleum-based, and petroleum comes from the ground, too.

 

But it seems pretty clear to me it's a fantasy substance. It can be pretty much anything from water to metal to stone, but it's still protodermis.

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

That said, I'm still pretty sure it's not. It almost seems more like plastic.

 

in the context of bionicle, that is a pretty interesting description...

 

also:

that was gonna be a lotta words, but this is easier. (it doesn't really override any canon either so...)

[bonesiii]

    Quote
    I do remember that Greg once said that the Ko-Matoran would eat Muaka. I don't have the source on me, but it might be somewhere back in this topic. I suppose that the Rahi had something about them that allowed the Matoran to absorb them. Maybe it was in the viruses?

Hm... I don't recall such a quote. Are you sure you're not thinking of something like him saying that Muaka eat meat? (And associating it with Ko because a Muaka was used in a famous Ko-Wahi animation in MNOG?) Because I do recall a quote like that.

He might also have changed his mind.

    Quote
    it's been shown beings need energy to keep living, even in bionicle's world, so the logical conclusion is matoran hunt the rahi and eat the flesh parts, a simple solution that doesn't even need explaining to make sense.

If you throw a massive "might" in there, I would agree, but it isn't logical to make such a huge jump. There are other factors to consider like morals they might have against it, or that their creators might have had in designing their limitations. (Seems like Greg's going more down the latter route.)

And there's a huge practical problem -- Rahi get replaced by Makuta making more directly. Before Makuta were known to be evil, that would be rather annoying to have Matoran ignoring easy technological and vegetable sources of energy to absorb energy from meat. After they were evil, maybe it would seem like the Makuta don't care, but the Matoran would probably think many Rahi made before that reveal were important for ecosystem balance and making them go extinct if the Makuta weren't going to do their jobs would be bad.

On Mata Nui Island, probably none were replaced at all, so they would presumably not want to eat any of them even though the technological sources of energy were gone -- at least, not if that ecosystem balance thing resulted in fruit or other plant matter being more stable. (They might if the Rahi were just eating all the plants that would grow just fine without them indefinitely... but it still doesn't fit their personalities to see them as wanting to make the local populations go extinct!)

As to what comes after, let's stay on-topic -- we're talking about eating fish because of that Greg quote, not rehashing the complexities of protodermis in general. We have the whole forum for topics on that. (And short answer is you're both probably right to an extent. )

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

well if the problem has to do with rahi not repopulating fast enough, that's another problem solved by, i dunno, letting rahi reproduce in canon? :t

[Irrie]

I suppose I won't be able to help you there. I've tried Googling a few keywords to see if I can find the quote but I couldn't locate it. There's also nothing on Biosector that implies that, so it might just be me misremembering or the quote was just never documented outside the LMB. I guess someone could ask Greg the question again for confirmation. 

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

I think it's more likely that Muaka ate Ko-Matoran than Ko-Matoran ate Muaka, personally.

[bonesiii]

well if the problem has to do with rahi not repopulating fast enough, that's another problem solved by, i dunno, letting rahi reproduce in canon? :t

And I figured you'd say that.

 

I kinda like the idea of a world that works differently, though, especially since they're artificial (and always seemed to be; they looked robotic). Why not expand our horizons by having a story about a fictional world where things work differently than here? I like having "food for thought" about problems to solve that aren't necessarily true here (though if we had biomechanical inventions like that, we might have to solve similar problems, and maybe someday we WILL!).

 

And they DO reproduce in a sense... by Makuta making more.

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

 

well if the problem has to do with rahi not repopulating fast enough, that's another problem solved by, i dunno, letting rahi reproduce in canon? :t

And I figured you'd say that.

 

I kinda like the idea of a world that works differently, though, especially since they're artificial (and always seemed to be; they looked robotic). Why not expand our horizons by having a story about a fictional world where things work differently than here? I like having "food for thought" about problems to solve that aren't necessarily true here (though if we had biomechanical inventions like that, we might have to solve similar problems, and maybe someday we WILL!).

 

And they DO reproduce in a sense... by Makuta making more.

 

 

but that's so much more nonsensically laborious on the makuta themselves! It would probably be a lot less effort on their part to just stick something under the hood to let the muakas make more baby muakas than to keep making millions more muakas by hand as they die off, (and also, how do the makuta know when a rahi dies somewhere else in the robot...? )

[fishers64]

 

 

well if the problem has to do with rahi not repopulating fast enough, that's another problem solved by, i dunno, letting rahi reproduce in canon? :t

And I figured you'd say that.

 

I kinda like the idea of a world that works differently, though, especially since they're artificial (and always seemed to be; they looked robotic). Why not expand our horizons by having a story about a fictional world where things work differently than here? I like having "food for thought" about problems to solve that aren't necessarily true here (though if we had biomechanical inventions like that, we might have to solve similar problems, and maybe someday we WILL!).

 

And they DO reproduce in a sense... by Makuta making more.

 

 

but that's so much more nonsensically laborious on the makuta themselves! It would probably be a lot less effort on their part to just stick something under the hood to let the muakas make more baby muakas than to keep making millions more muakas by hand as they die off, (and also, how do the makuta know when a rahi dies somewhere else in the robot...? )

 

Uh, no, because then you would have too many Muakas, and they would eat all of the Rahkshi armies every time that the Makuta needed to attack someplace. That would be very bad.

 

And that's probably why the Makuta didn't make reproducing Rahi. The small environment of the MU probably couldn't handle the extremes of carrying-capacity fluctuations. Instead, they determined how many Muakas were needed and made those in the Muaka Factory . Or something like that - it's possible that all Rahi were made by hand and that the MU just didn't need that many.

[bonesiii]

but that's so much more nonsensically laborious on the makuta themselves!

That's true -- and given the way the Makuta do it, I can see a case here. But then it also makes sense that something like it should be needed for things mostly made of metal, pistons, etc. And fishers' population limiting point makes sense too, plus, would they normally need replacement much anyways?

 

You can fix most of the problems with your argument, but seemingly it all ends up turning into the same pattern as real life -- you could take out the lifespans to make them need replaced more often, but how far can we really change it before being biomechanical at all becomes a problem? How it is (aside from the specific virus-reshaping-liquid method of making more) fits naturally with being machines with some muscle in them and so forth.

 

 

 

(and also, how do the makuta know when a rahi dies somewhere else in the robot...? )

 

Wouldn't they notice without any use of their powers if a particular type was being sighted less often? (Of course, they might let that kind go extinct and opt for a replacement that wasn't so weak, but yeah.) If birds were dying in serious numbers, I would be able to tell there were less birds around. (And probably somebody would be finding the bodies, especially with metal skeletons! Although not so much if they sink in the sea. )

 

Edit: And we're talking about people eating them, right? So it makes sense they wouldn't have special difficulty learning about it if Matoran took it as acceptable to eat Rahi. It's not like a Rahi disappearing from the middle of the Silver Sea and the skeleton sinking with nobody the wiser.

Edited June 6, 2015 by bonesiii

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

 

 

 

well if the problem has to do with rahi not repopulating fast enough, that's another problem solved by, i dunno, letting rahi reproduce in canon? :t

And I figured you'd say that.

 

I kinda like the idea of a world that works differently, though, especially since they're artificial (and always seemed to be; they looked robotic). Why not expand our horizons by having a story about a fictional world where things work differently than here? I like having "food for thought" about problems to solve that aren't necessarily true here (though if we had biomechanical inventions like that, we might have to solve similar problems, and maybe someday we WILL!).

 

And they DO reproduce in a sense... by Makuta making more.

 

 

but that's so much more nonsensically laborious on the makuta themselves! It would probably be a lot less effort on their part to just stick something under the hood to let the muakas make more baby muakas than to keep making millions more muakas by hand as they die off, (and also, how do the makuta know when a rahi dies somewhere else in the robot...? )

 

Uh, no, because then you would have too many Muakas, and they would eat all of the Rahkshi armies every time that the Makuta needed to attack someplace. That would be very bad.

 

And that's probably why the Makuta didn't make reproducing Rahi. The small environment of the MU probably couldn't handle the extremes of carrying-capacity fluctuations. Instead, they determined how many Muakas were needed and made those in the Muaka Factory . Or something like that - it's possible that all Rahi were made by hand and that the MU just didn't need that many.

 

 

Rahi have been known to eat each other on a regular basis, y'know. like animals do?

 

like, this whole thing (the matoran/fish thing) is just one big chain of some nut on the LEGO Bionicle story team going "well yeah but maybe that's too intimate for kids!" it's not about "worldbuilding" or "what-fi scenarios" it's literally just people deciding things like reproduction and digestive systems are too "grodey" for plastic robots to have. :t

[believe victims]

And there's a huge practical problem -- Rahi get replaced by Makuta making more directly. Before Makuta were known to be evil, that would be rather annoying to have Matoran ignoring easy technological and vegetable sources of energy to absorb energy from meat. After they were evil, maybe it would seem like the Makuta don't care, but the Matoran would probably think many Rahi made before that reveal were important for ecosystem balance and making them go extinct if the Makuta weren't going to do their jobs would be bad.

 

Wait, don't Rahi eat each other all the time? Unless we're about to call books like Rahi Beasts (a book written by Greg himself) non-canon, the Rahi would have gone extinct long ago simply from predating on each other. Presumably, they eat for energy, like any animal, so it's not like they would have stopped just because the Makuta stopped making more. We have no reason to believe Rahi populations were rapidly declining, so obviously there has to be some method by which Rahi reproduce without Makuta. By your own logic, they would otherwise go extinct.

[fishers64]

Rahi have been known to eat each other on a regular basis, y'know. like animals do?

 

like, this whole thing (the matoran/fish thing) is just one big chain of some nut on the LEGO Bionicle story team going "well yeah but maybe that's too intimate for kids!" it's not about "worldbuilding" or "what-fi scenarios" it's literally just people deciding things like reproduction and digestive systems are too "grodey" for plastic robots to have. :t

 

Erm, Muaka = top predator. I don't recall any Rahi eating Muaka, and if there are too many of those and there isn't enough food, they might decide that the Matoran might make good dinner. 

 

If I were a GB, I wouldn't want a bunch of out of control animal populations running around in my spaceship. 

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

Erm, Muaka = top predator. I don't recall any Rahi eating Muaka, and if there are too many of those and there isn't enough food, they might decide that the Matoran might make good dinner. 

 

If I were a GB, I wouldn't want a bunch of out of control animal populations running around in my spaceship. 

 

 

top predator? don't, like, doom-vipers or visorak or something else horrid Chirox made eat those though? there are a lot of rahi that are kinda "tied" for top predator slot in this theoretical food chain. :0

[N.S.M.8]

 

Erm, Muaka = top predator. I don't recall any Rahi eating Muaka, and if there are too many of those and there isn't enough food, they might decide that the Matoran might make good dinner. 

 

If I were a GB, I wouldn't want a bunch of out of control animal populations running around in my spaceship. 

 

 

top predator? don't, like, doom-vipers or visorak or something else horrid Chirox made eat those though? there are a lot of rahi that are kinda "tied" for top predator slot in this theoretical food chain. :0

 

I don't think that the Visorak can really be considered part of the food chain given that not only do they not exist in the wild, only; they don't eat other Rahi, but instead absorb energy from colony drones.  

 

Besides the Zivon preys on the Visorak, so they aren't really the top dogs (or spiders).

 

As for the doom viper, I really don't know.

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

As for the doom viper, I really don't know.

 

I don't think the eating habits of Doom Vipers were ever defined.

[believe victims]

 

Rahi have been known to eat each other on a regular basis, y'know. like animals do?

 

like, this whole thing (the matoran/fish thing) is just one big chain of some nut on the LEGO Bionicle story team going "well yeah but maybe that's too intimate for kids!" it's not about "worldbuilding" or "what-fi scenarios" it's literally just people deciding things like reproduction and digestive systems are too "grodey" for plastic robots to have. :t

 

Erm, Muaka = top predator. I don't recall any Rahi eating Muaka, and if there are too many of those and there isn't enough food, they might decide that the Matoran might make good dinner. 

 

If I were a GB, I wouldn't want a bunch of out of control animal populations running around in my spaceship. 

 

 

Our world is filled with "top predators", and for millions of years they've managed to keep their own populations from exploding to unmanageable levels. (Oddly, any exceptions are as the result of the most unbalanced top predator, humans.) I'd imagine similar natural processes are at work here.

[fishers64]

 

top predator? don't, like, doom-vipers or visorak or something else horrid Chirox made eat those though? there are a lot of rahi that are kinda "tied" for top predator slot in this theoretical food chain. :0

There are multiple top predators in real life, so not sure how that is an issue. 

 

 

I'd imagine similar natural processes are at work here.

Uh, the point is that they aren't, and the Makuta control it all by making all new Rahi. 

 

I expect that they probably have automated the process by the time the story begins, and probably release new hordes of ruki fish every year for the other Rahi to eat. Or something similar. 

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

but the overall artificiality of the situation doesn't work, and doesn't make sense either. it would, again, be less efficient to do it all the way it's being claimed to be done, than to make it closer to earth's self-sustaining ecosystems.

 

Rule of Sci-fi worlds: if it's too complicated to think about, fall back to earth standards.

 

 

 

top predator? don't, like, doom-vipers or visorak or something else horrid Chirox made eat those though? there are a lot of rahi that are kinda "tied" for top predator slot in this theoretical food chain. :0

There are multiple top predators in real life, so not sure how that is an issue.

 

 

I'm literally saying it isn't an issue, i was pointing out there are things that would eat Muaka, or are on-par with Muaka, and that it shouldn't be treated as a "top-of-chain" sorta thing (especially given how food webs are more practical...)

[fishers64]

My point is that is that this sort of population regulation doesn't work in a very small environment. Imagine that you put a small shark in a household-size fish tank. He would eat all of the other fish in the tank within the hour and go hunting for another food source. Unless there are humans who will give him food regularly, that is. 

 

That's about what we're looking at here - the Makuta feeding and caring for what are pets from their perspective, and the giant robot is the fish tank. It's not like our world, but rather an small aquarium/terrarium/zoo. Unlike our world with its wide expanses of land in which prey can hide from predators and all of that other things associated.

 

Or it's like taking, say, a pet cat or 5 on a spaceship. Same idea - the cats will eat any birds or mice on the ship in short order before they can get the chance to reproduce, leaving the cats dependent on their owners for food. 

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

My point is that is that this sort of population regulation doesn't work in a very small environment. Imagine that you put a small shark in a household-size fish tank. He would eat all of the other fish in the tank within the hour and go hunting for another food source. Unless there are humans who will give him food regularly, that is. 

 

That's about what we're looking at here - the Makuta feeding and caring for what are pets from their perspective, and the giant robot is the fish tank. It's not like our world, but rather an small aquarium/terrarium/zoo. Unlike our world with its wide expanses of land in which prey can hide from predators and all of that other things associated.

 

Or it's like taking, say, a pet cat or 5 on a spaceship. Same idea - the cats will eat any birds or mice on the ship in short order before they can get the chance to reproduce, leaving the cats dependent on their owners for food. 

 

that would make sense, if the robot-ship-thing wasn't spectacularly huge all the time. :0

 

(and if it didn't contradict the in-canon knowledge that Rahi run free, eat what they wish, and are basically wild animals.)

[believe victims]

 

 

I'd imagine similar natural processes are at work here.

Uh, the point is that they aren't, and the Makuta control it all by making all new Rahi. 

 

Right. Because the Makuta make new Rahi, ecosystems cease to function like ecosystems. Silly me.

[bonesiii]

 

 

it's not about "worldbuilding" or "what-fi scenarios" it's literally just people deciding things like reproduction and digestive systems are too "grodey" for plastic robots to have. :t

Except purely organic creatures have been around in the story alongside the biomechanical ones since 2001, working (at the time presumably, now confirmed) pretty much just like real life (albeit probably also with longer lifespans).

Much more likely they designed TECHNIC sets and wanted them to seem metallic and came up with the idea of biomechanical creatures as a result (probably connected to the founding analogy of the giant robot being a human dying of cancer), and then figured it would seem more naturally for those ones to need replaced rather than have biological reproduction due to the metal components being difficult to imagine as growing.

 

Wait, don't Rahi eat each other all the time?

I don't know how common it is, but some Rahi eat Rahi, yes.

 

the Rahi would have gone extinct long ago simply from predating on each other.

They were being replaced for most of history, though. I dunno about the last thousand years, but the Makuta were pretending to be good up until the GC, at least as far as Metru Nui knew. (Some people and undoubtedly regions had figured it out, like the Rahaga, though.)

More interesting is how any survived on Mata Nui considering there were Muaka, for example. I don't know if Greg ever weighed in on this, but they could be more like bears; omnivores eating usually the plants. Presumably Makuta weren't supposed to be making strict carnivores, although they probably did later on.

But this doesn't help make Matoran eating them work anyways -- if anything it makes it more of a problem if they do.



My guess as to inside the MU is the other Makuta and maybe Teridax too were still replacing them since they did want to rule over the world rather than just upset everything, but unsure (and it probably doesn't apply to Mata Nui).

Anyways, on Mata Nui they had other food sources that weren't vegetable-only since it was in the ocean of Aqua Magna, so it makes more sense to me they would limit their eating to those creatures, which do reproduce normally.

 

(and if it didn't contradict the in-canon knowledge that Rahi run free, eat what they wish, and are basically wild animals.)

Actually, that's probably the solution to Mata Nui -- a lot of them weren't free there. In the MU, they were, but were probably being replaced. On Mata Nui, weren't most Muaka infected? Makuta probably doesn't want them messing up the ecosystem, so might force them to eat the vegetable side of a bear-style omnivorous diet rather than meat.

(BTW, I'm presuming in all of this that the protodermic Rahi can't physically digest meat from the Aqua Magna creatures. Correct if wrong. )

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

They were being replaced for most of history, though. I dunno about the last thousand years, but the Makuta were pretending to be good up until the GC, at least as far as Metru Nui knew. (Some people and undoubtedly regions had figured it out, like the Rahaga, though.)

 

Mutran was still making Rahi in Karda Nui, so it's safe to assume at least he had been replacing Rahi (that was his specialty, anyway, unlike other Makuta like Icarax, who was more of a warrior).

 

 

(BTW, I'm presuming in all of this that the protodermic Rahi can't physically digest meat from the Aqua Magna creatures. Correct if wrong. )

 

Barraki frequently ate Aqua Magna creatures, including their own squid (especially Mantax), so I can't see why Rahi couldn't. However, different species have different processes. For example, humans and dogs are both fully-organic carbon-based life forms, but while grapes are good for humans, they're highly toxic to dogs.

[bonesiii]

Barraki frequently ate Aqua Magna creatures, including their own squid (especially Mantax), so I can't see why Rahi couldn't.

Did they eat them physically like Rahi? Matoran can "eat" the AM creatures (I presume) by absorbing energy, so could the Barraki's eating be like the Matoran's, since they're sapient MU beings too? (I have no idea, I don't recall this either way.)

[ToaKapura1234]

Matoran can also eat with their mouths, but it was viewed as disgusting among all but the Skakdi.

[believe victims]

More interesting is how any survived on Mata Nui considering there were Muaka, for example. I don't know if Greg ever weighed in on this, but they could be more like bears; omnivores eating usually the plants. Presumably Makuta weren't supposed to be making strict carnivores, although they probably did later on.

 

I don't have my copy of Rahi Beasts on me presently, but to my knowledge, many Rahi (like the Muaka) are given a favorite prey. For example, the Ranama hunts the Nui-Rama, and the Nui-Rama and Nui-Kopen are said to be in conflict because they hunt the same prey (which implies strict predatory diets). Even if these species were omnivorous, I see no reason to assume they ate nearly enough plants to avoid hunting their prey to extinction, especially considering a time span of 1000 years. (Not to mention some clearly have features made for hunting other creatures as opposed to eating plants; none would mistake Tyrannosaurus for a plant eater, for example.) Unless these creatures have more complex reason than canon sources have given us to assume, they would likely hunt their prey to extinction before turning to a primarily-herbivorous diet. They're called their favorite prey for a reason, after all.

 

I just don't see how there can be any predatory behaviors in Rahi without a majority of them going extinct, unless they can somehow reproduce without the aid of Makuta.

 

But this doesn't help make Matoran eating them work anyways -- if anything it makes it more of a problem if they do.

 

That's my point; current canon already doesn't support the idea of Rahi being unable to reproduce, because they already would have gone extinct from mere inter-Rahi predation. You cannot excuse one without excusing the other, or outlaw one without outlawing the other. Either the Rahi reproduce, which means that predation of any kind is a non-issue, or there is another method by which new Rahi come into being (for example, if Makuta made more when necessary), which I see no reason for it to solely apply to inter-Rahi predation. After all, why would the Makuta discriminate between a Rahi killed to be eaten by a Muaka and a Rahi killed to be eaten by a Matoran? It seems like a meaningless distinction; either way, there's a Rahi missing that needs to be replaced.

 

(Of course, the idea of predatory Rahi seems to fly in the face of the idea of Makuta being solely responsible for making new Rahi anyway; what motivation could they possibly have to make their jobs harder?)

Edited June 8, 2015 by Dina Saruyama

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

 

Barraki frequently ate Aqua Magna creatures, including their own squid (especially Mantax), so I can't see why Rahi couldn't.

Did they eat them physically like Rahi? Matoran can "eat" the AM creatures (I presume) by absorbing energy, so could the Barraki's eating be like the Matoran's, since they're sapient MU beings too? (I have no idea, I don't recall this either way.)

 

 

The Barraki ate with their mouths. Greg said they did back in 2007 if memory serves (which is also when we learned how Matoran eat, I believe, as he contrasted the two methods). And even without Greg's word, one of the books had a Barraki mentioning that eating blood snails gave Carapar bad breath. It's virtually impossible to gain bad breath by absorbing energy through your hands.

 

I'm not sure if this is completely new, but Turaga apparently actually oversee the births of Matoran. I guess I assumed it was a functionality of the robot. This makes me wonder: how do they "grow" the organic parts? With viruses like the Makuta do with Rahi?

Edited June 8, 2015 by Cheesy Mac n Cheese

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Lets see if I can weigh in here...

Prowl's take on Protodermis building blocks:
Ok, so we know that for whatever reason everything in the MU seems to be made up of some form of Protodermis. Be it normal or anti. Well we are carbon based life forms; all of us. Every species on Earth to our knowledge plant and animal is carbon based. Why I have no idea, do I look like a scientist to you? Anyway it stands to reason that in the MU the live forms are protodermis based instead of carbon based. Simplicity in itself. Though not sure how liquid proto fits in as I said I am no scientist. Anyway I kind of see the Matoran species as almost insect like in that they have an armored exoskeleton. Thus the metallic armor appearance. Protodermis is a more metallic compound then are carbon based ones even in its more organic state.

 

Prowl's take on Matoran eating habits:

I don't remember what movie/show it was from but I do remember an alien who use to drink through his finger and eat via his butt. Yeah in once scene he took a whole turkey and sat it on his chair before sitting on it. Then after some food enjoyment sound effects he returned the tray to the table with nothing but the bones left. So while we may see it as strange by our standards why couldn't a different species to our own have an equally different means of gaining the needed energy to function? Now true some of the species do eat via their mouths and Matoran even have that ability. Though I think it is seen as animalistic or uncivilized. Like seeing somebody eat with their hands instead of utensils or directly off the floor. This is why the Rahi can and do eat with their mouths. Even the goat rahi the Po-Matoran keep in herds do this.

 

Prowl's take on Rahi population control:

Well I don't know much about the story as a whole but I suspect the whole being created from viruses and viruses multiply like crazy with the right catalyst I suspect that once the Makuta of any region created them they could self contain their own ecosystem. Many species adapt based on predator and prey relationships. It would not surprise me in the least if the prey Rahi multiplied rapidly to try and counter the predator numbers. Though as others have stated the Predator rahi's numbers could be limited based on possible prey. Less prey less room for predators. Also the whole territorial aspect of the larger species. I mean even tigers in our world are not the most hospitable to members of their own species outside of mating season. So basically if there isn't enough food for one why bring in more competition for the limited resources? Thus if they can breed there wouldn't need to unless it was for species survival. Something that wouldn't happen with over crowding.

 

It is a natural cause and effect. Also I am not 100% but wasn't there word that the Po-Matoran breed and herd these goat rahi? If so then some freaky stuff is going on in the Matoran village of stone. Are there Dr Frankenstein type Matoran on Mata Nui? "It's ALIVE!!!" ... "Good. Now lets hit it with a rock. Then we'll eat it."

 

Is that all the topics that are being discussed right now?

[Regitnui]

"It's ALIVE!!!" ... "Good. Now lets hit it with a rock. Then we'll eat it."

That is brilliant. I love that mental image.

[Thormen]

How's about the Red Star revives those Rahi that were eaten? Of course you would think their bodies would be beyond repair after they were eaten, but that's supposing a digestive tract resembling that of real animals, and we haven't seen a digestive tract like that in canon. I could see a Muaka killing a Gukko with its bite, swallowing the Gukko whole and draining all of its energy in its stomach, after which the Gukko's body is teleported out of there by the Red Star. Same goes obviously for any biomechanical fish that were eaten by the Matoran, except it requires less assumptions since we already know the Matoran don't chew their food anyway.

 

The Makuta would still have to replace any Rahi that died after the Red Star broke of course, but it provides an explanation for why the Makuta would make predatory Rahi if those were going to cause trouble for them: they didn't originally anticipate the trouble, and when the trouble arrived it was already too late, the Muaka had already been created.

[believe victims]

I'm pretty sure Greg said the Red Star doesn't revive Rahi.