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#1 Offline the_void

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Posted Nov 22 2013 - 11:13 AM

After bionicle finished this site was in updation, for a long time when we needed it most so I did the math and found out this site has 47,680 members and under 600 have been on at once since the update so I am organising a event everyone who can will come online, january 1st at 18.00 in Britian but different places have different times so you'll have to find when it starts in your time zone, we will all stay on for 1hour just to make sure also make sure you tell everyone

Edited by the_void, Nov 22 2013 - 11:23 AM.

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#2 Online Reznas

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Posted Nov 22 2013 - 02:04 PM

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"][color=#008000;]Discussion of BZPower's activity would be better suited [/color][color=#008000;]here[/color][color=#008000;], in the dedicated tracker ticket. [/color][/font]

 

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"][color=#008000;]-Rez[/color][/font]


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#3 Offline Aanchir: Rachira of Time

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Posted Nov 22 2013 - 02:17 PM

Honestly, I don't really care whether this site ever becomes as popular as it once was. As long as it's popular enough for the admins to keep it running and for thoughtful discussions to take place, I'm happy with post-update BZPower.Not to say I'd complain if we started seeing more activity here... I just don't see any pressing need for the site to return to pre-update levels of activity, and actually like BZPower a bit better now that it doesn't take as much time and energy to keep up with the goings-on here.I don't have any idea what my plans are for January 1. But the time sounds like it should work all right for me, if I can remember.
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#4 Offline -Windrider-

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Posted Nov 22 2013 - 02:36 PM

I do appreciate that other members are concerned about the site's activity. However, I think the energy should be focused toward attracting newer members to the site. Longtime members may move on, and that's okay; it's only natural. The event you propose, at least in my opinion, won't solve the bigger issues surrounding this site's activity. (Of course, an event like the Mask of Light livestream that BZPower held had the benefits of getting older members "online" and positively affecting site interest. Perhaps you could think of something similar to propose?)

 

That said, Reznas is right: I'd welcome the suggestion in the Tracker ticket he linked to. :>


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#5 Offline InnerRayg

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Posted Nov 30 2013 - 07:48 PM

DV made a great suggestion which I still stand behind today - BZPower should become the home of all "storyline" Lego - currently there's no real home for people to discuss the stories of Lego themes like Ninjago, Chima, and so on. We could be that home. Constraction's too narrow of a focus.
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#6 Offline BobaFett2

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Posted Nov 30 2013 - 10:52 PM

DV made a great suggestion which I still stand behind today - BZPower should become the home of all "storyline" Lego - currently there's no real home for people to discuss the stories of Lego themes like Ninjago, Chima, and so on. We could be that home. Constraction's too narrow of a focus.

Personally, I see BZPower/BS01 (and BMP) as the last real homes of the BIONICLE fanbase online. I can see why you'd want that, but as long as BZPower can run without others, I think it would be best to preserve that. If you make it a hub for everything, it's loses that special aspect.


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#7 Offline InnerRayg

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Posted Dec 03 2013 - 04:33 AM

DV made a great suggestion which I still stand behind today - BZPower should become the home of all "storyline" Lego - currently there's no real home for people to discuss the stories of Lego themes like Ninjago, Chima, and so on. We could be that home. Constraction's too narrow of a focus.

Personally, I see BZPower/BS01 (and BMP) as the last real homes of the BIONICLE fanbase online. I can see why you'd want that, but as long as BZPower can run without others, I think it would be best to preserve that. If you make it a hub for everything, it's loses that special aspect.

Okay, but the bionicle fanbase doesn't really exist anymore. That's the whole point of this topic. There's nothing sustaining it and if we just stay stagnant the site will continue to dwindle.

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#8 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Dec 03 2013 - 07:36 AM

 

 

DV made a great suggestion which I still stand behind today - BZPower should become the home of all "storyline" Lego - currently there's no real home for people to discuss the stories of Lego themes like Ninjago, Chima, and so on. We could be that home. Constraction's too narrow of a focus.

Personally, I see BZPower/BS01 (and BMP) as the last real homes of the BIONICLE fanbase online. I can see why you'd want that, but as long as BZPower can run without others, I think it would be best to preserve that. If you make it a hub for everything, it's loses that special aspect.

 

Okay, but the bionicle fanbase doesn't really exist anymore. That's the whole point of this topic. There's nothing sustaining it and if we just stay stagnant the site will continue to dwindle.

 

I wouldn't say it's dwindling; I see new topics and posts almost every day. Sure, activity's not what it was when Bionicle was active, but that's to be expected, and overall I think the community has proven fairly resilient.


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#9 Offline BobaFett2

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Posted Dec 03 2013 - 08:55 AM

 

 

DV made a great suggestion which I still stand behind today - BZPower should become the home of all "storyline" Lego - currently there's no real home for people to discuss the stories of Lego themes like Ninjago, Chima, and so on. We could be that home. Constraction's too narrow of a focus.

Personally, I see BZPower/BS01 (and BMP) as the last real homes of the BIONICLE fanbase online. I can see why you'd want that, but as long as BZPower can run without others, I think it would be best to preserve that. If you make it a hub for everything, it's loses that special aspect.

 

Okay, but the bionicle fanbase doesn't really exist anymore. That's the whole point of this topic. There's nothing sustaining it and if we just stay stagnant the site will continue to dwindle.

 

It's not what it once was, but when I came back to the site I was expecting a ghost town. This is far from a ghost town. I've managed a few failing forums and this does not look a thing like any of them. There's still plenty of BIONICLE discussion going on, even. If that weren't happening, and the discussion were all Hero Factory, I could see reason to diversify (for then the BIONICLE community would really have been dead), but it's not like that.


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#10 Offline Lyichir

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Posted Dec 03 2013 - 01:26 PM

DV made a great suggestion which I still stand behind today - BZPower should become the home of all "storyline" Lego - currently there's no real home for people to discuss the stories of Lego themes like Ninjago, Chima, and so on. We could be that home. Constraction's too narrow of a focus.

YES. THIS. A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.

 

BZPower has a unique perspective on a variety of themes due to its history with Bionicle. All Lego fansites have set discussion, and most have places to post and discuss MOCs, but you'll be lucky to find a single topic on those sites for fan art, let alone a whole forum. Fan fiction, too, is conspicuously absent, and very little storyline or media discussion goes on either. BZPower already has the infrastructure in place for all of these things, and all it needs to do is take advantage of it.

 

Unfortunately, discussion of other Lego stories on BZPower still leaves much to be desired. Hero Factory seems to be one of the only non-Bionicle themes that has gotten sustained storyline discussion. Part of this is that a lot of the BZP userbase doesn't seem to care much about themes that aren't Bionicle, and Hero Factory happens to be the closest thing we have to that anymore. But I think BZPower could still do more to court members who want to discuss other Lego themes. More explicitly non-Bionicle contests and events could benefit the site, I think, and having more designated spaces for general discussion of other themes wouldn't hurt either. One thing BZPower has struggled with that I feel could boost its activity instantly is to try to get some of the people involved with the creation and story of Lego themes involved on BZPower, even if it's just for a limited time AMA-type event or even just a staff interview. The Ask Greg, after all, was one of BZP's most attractive features back in the day, yet currently I have better luck interacting with Lego staff on any fansite OTHER than BZP. I understand the issues that caused Greg to have to leave, but I don't know whether BZP's explored all of their options for getting around them.

 

Those are just a few ideas, and I don't know how well they'd work, having little experience with the management of a website or online community. But I do know that while BZP is far from in dire straits activity-wise, the site has the potential to be so much more.


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#11 Offline Sybre the Mental

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Posted Dec 03 2013 - 01:28 PM

Sadly, we're just a small bubble full of people. We're Mahri Nui, in a way. There's still so many BIONICLE fans out there that we have't found yet, so they haven't found BZPower. Hopefully, BZPower can really get off the ground again. Sure, I'd love t if old members decided to come back, but it's their decision. Like -Windrider- said, we need to focus on getting new members, but I guess our bubble is still pretty small to notice.


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#12 Offline InnerRayg

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Posted Dec 03 2013 - 05:23 PM

We're all talking about two different things - there's maintaining your userbase, and there's growing it. Let's be honest - there are not "new" Bionicle fans being made anymore. There may be people who nostalgically remember it but were never part of our community, but these aren't the kind of people who passionately join conversations - they might give a cursory glance, smile, and move on at best. Growing the userbase means finding new, and -young- people who are passionate and actively interested in discussion. 

DV made a great suggestion which I still stand behind today - BZPower should become the home of all "storyline" Lego - currently there's no real home for people to discuss the stories of Lego themes like Ninjago, Chima, and so on. We could be that home. Constraction's too narrow of a focus.

Personally, I see BZPower/BS01 (and BMP) as the last real homes of the BIONICLE fanbase online. I can see why you'd want that, but as long as BZPower can run without others, I think it would be best to preserve that. If you make it a hub for everything, it's loses that special aspect.

Okay, but the bionicle fanbase doesn't really exist anymore. That's the whole point of this topic. There's nothing sustaining it and if we just stay stagnant the site will continue to dwindle.

It's not what it once was, but when I came back to the site I was expecting a ghost town. This is far from a ghost town. I've managed a few failing forums and this does not look a thing like any of them. There's still plenty of BIONICLE discussion going on, even. If that weren't happening, and the discussion were all Hero Factory, I could see reason to diversify (for then the BIONICLE community would really have been dead), but it's not like that.

I didn't say it was failing, just dwindling, and that's not really debatable. It's a fact that activity is way down from where it was. Why? Because Bionicle as a franchise isn't attracting new fans in any real way. Hero factory is the next best thing, but for whatever reason I don't see the enthusiasm for that line here like there was for Bionicle. You know where the enthusiasm is? Ninjago. Kids love it. They love it so much the entire line came back from the dead, which is a rare thing. If we could provide a really good place to discuss the story I'd bet we'd see a significant increase in population. I don't know if Chima has the same popularity yet - it did take a year or two for Ninjago to get cemented, probably the same case here, but if we really got on the ball with it I could see it paying off significant dividends.There are thousands of Lego sites out there - we have to provide something that they don't. The way I see it, we were so successful because back in the day we did that in two ways - We provided a space that focused on the Technic/Constraction/whatever you want to call it style of building that was ignored by a large portion of the community, and a serious and in-depth place for people to discuss and examine the story, with up to date information and insight you couldn't find anywhere else. You don't see that anymore. Perusing the news gives you a few announcements of showtimes and reviews of sets you can find anywhere across the internet, without much in the way of real looks at the various shows, books, comics that are being produced to promote these lines, an area that was once our area of expertise. We still have the constraction focus, but these days other communities are much more willing to lend space to buildable action figures, and the more they do the more it chips at our share of the audience.

Edited by InnerRayg, Dec 03 2013 - 05:29 PM.

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#13 Offline Aanchir: Rachira of Time

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Posted Dec 03 2013 - 09:58 PM

The real question I have about courting fans of other story themes is how to do it. Part of the reason BIONICLE needed its own discussion forum in the first place was because it was so radically new and different. Most "traditional" LEGO fans and fansites wanted nothing to do with it. And kids of that generation needed a place they could count on to be safe and welcoming — this was before the rise of "social networking" sites, so you pretty much needed a fandom-specific website to provide that.These days, I feel like kids are even more involved online than they used to be. While there obviously isn't a whole lot of KFOL activity on sites like Eurobricks and Brickset, which hold tight to their AFOL focus, there are plenty of younger Ninjago fans gathering on non-LEGO-specific sites like deviantART and Tumblr. Even the LEGO Message Boards, as much as we might scoff at them, have a much stronger community than back in BIONICLE's infancy — after all, back then, the LEGO Message Boards had not been around for many years themselves.If we want to court these fans, we need to show that they need a site like BZPower. How do we do that? Some of my brother's suggestions, like more focused theme-oriented contests and engagement in some capacity with LEGO writers and designers, might be a good step. But I don't know if BZPower's userbase is a stable foundation for these kinds of things. Eurobricks tends to have "theme months" with building contests, reviews, and discussions focused on one theme or another, but with how fragmented the BZPower userbase's interests can be now that BIONICLE is a thing of the past, how many people would turn out for a ninja-related art, story, or MOC contest? We attempted a Ninjago writing contest a while back, but I don't seem to recall a whole lot of participation, certainly not compared to the BIONICLE or general LEGO contests.Covering these themes in the news in more detail is another big step. Back in the day, new BIONICLE books and movies were a big deal, but when we DO see news about books related to other themes, it's just one post about all the LEGO books due for release in the next four to six months, and only the Hero Factory books and TV episodes seem to get a lot of news attention even though there are so very few of those. New BIONICLE concept art from Christian Faber and Hero Factory teaser videos from Advance get top billing, while Ninjago concept art and teaser videos from WilFilm rarely even get a mention.Honestly, I don't know if BZPower has a chance at becoming THE place people come for this kind of discussion. It was a little bit too late to the party when it came to becoming a hub for Ninjago fans, I think. And while I KNOW Chima has been popular from all the parents talking online about how their kids love it, I don't know if there exist a lot of KFOL Chima fans looking for a Chima discussion hub. Still, we can do our best. It's funny, for as much as we go on about the story being what made BIONICLE special, it seems that story themes other than BIONICLE don't make a big difference to a lot of BZPower members if they don't have that essential robot-action-figure component.
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#14 Offline Justin Bieber

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 12:10 PM

I think it would be a great idea to expand BZP's focus to other lines, such as Ninjago and Chima, and to place a greater emphasis on Hero Factory. That's what kids are into these days (lol i sound like an old fart), which means they'll be attracted to a place where they can discuss and debate and create with other people who like the same thing.

 

And it's not like we would suddenly switch the theme of the site to Kim Possible: it would still be LEGO, so it's not like BZP would be changing drastically. We would just be removing focus from a dead line, which really is nothing more than common sense. We're not catching any fish with this bait, so let's switch the bait.

 

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#15 Offline Kopekemaster

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 12:29 PM

Yeah, it would be nice.

But hey, while we are talking about hypothetical things, it would be nice for Bionicle to come back also.

 

I agree with most people that BZPower should expand its horizons and get more popularity that way.


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#16 Offline UngluedBike

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 12:36 PM

To be honest, I think that I prefer the way the site is. It's a small community with, I'm guessing, around 600 active users, it's a little bit like a village where everyone knows everyone. I like it like that.


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#17 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 01:50 PM

I think it would be a great idea to expand BZP's focus to other lines, such as Ninjago and Chima, and to place a greater emphasis on Hero Factory. That's what kids are into these days (lol i sound like an old fart), which means they'll be attracted to a place where they can discuss and debate and create with other people who like the same thing.

 

And it's not like we would suddenly switch the theme of the site to Kim Possible: it would still be LEGO, so it's not like BZP would be changing drastically. We would just be removing focus from a dead line, which really is nothing more than common sense. We're not catching any fish with this bait, so let's switch the bait.

 

-jb

 

I think there are several major roadblocks to a switch of focus working:

 

- BZPower has been known as an exclusively Bionicle website for over ten years. To change that perception now would be very difficult.

 

- In the cases of Ninjago and Hero Factory, the time to attract all the new fans has passed as the lines are now established.

 

- Bionicle had an extensive storyline and complex universe that provided a rich source of discussion. Current themes have moved away from that setup to focus on action and comedy, leaving little potential for discussion.

 

- Bionicle was a constraction line whereas Ninjago and Chima are System-based. Very few FOLs like both, which would lead to a division among MOCers.


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#18 Offline fishers64

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 01:56 PM

*sigh* Here we go again. 

 

Someone posts a topic about BZP's low activity level. Then all sorts of new ideas get proposed to try to broaden the site's focus and get new members in here. Then all the objectors stand up and complain say that this or that idea would or wouldn't work. 

 

Nothing ever happens. The site keeps getting slower, and everyone is still staring at the Bionicle Mafia topic waiting for someone else to post. :P

 

Forget it. If you want to talk Ninjago, start a Ninjago topic. Pose some questions. If you want to talk Chima, start a Chima topic. You get the drift. I don't care if you're a staff member or not. There's a lot worse things that could be going on here than a staff member starting a Chima topic and it dying a postless death. That would be better than all of us sitting around here postulating what-ifs and complaining about what everyone else isn't doing.

 

But I think if you start the topic, and revive it every time it dies, then eventually people will join the site who want to talk about it.  That's just a theory. Don't call it a fact. But I think it's worth a try. 

 

But if you don't want a change, join the party. Not many of us want to talk about HF or Chima or Ninjago...we came here to discuss Bionicle. We might as well start more Bionicle topics. Except that new Bionicle information to start them with is at a premium these days. Fewer people on the net, besides us, want to talk about it. And then the older members leave...

 

Fewer members = fewer topics = fewer members = fewer topics...cue postitronic death spirial of inevitable doom. Unless Bionicle comes back. Good luck with that. 


Edited by fishers64, Dec 04 2013 - 01:57 PM.

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#19 Offline UngluedBike

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 01:59 PM

 

I think it would be a great idea to expand BZP's focus to other lines, such as Ninjago and Chima, and to place a greater emphasis on Hero Factory. That's what kids are into these days (lol i sound like an old fart), which means they'll be attracted to a place where they can discuss and debate and create with other people who like the same thing.

 

And it's not like we would suddenly switch the theme of the site to Kim Possible: it would still be LEGO, so it's not like BZP would be changing drastically. We would just be removing focus from a dead line, which really is nothing more than common sense. We're not catching any fish with this bait, so let's switch the bait.

 

-jb

 

I think there are several major roadblocks to a switch of focus working:

 

- BZPower has been known as an exclusively Bionicle website for over ten years. To change that perception now would be very difficult.

 

- In the cases of Ninjago and Hero Factory, the time to attract all the new fans has passed as the lines are now established.

 

- Bionicle had an extensive storyline and complex universe that provided a rich source of discussion. Current themes have moved away from that setup to focus on action and comedy, leaving little potential for discussion.

 

- Bionicle was a constraction line whereas Ninjago and Chima are System-based. Very few FOLs like both, which would lead to a division among MOCers.

 

If this site wasn't focused around bionicle, then there would be nowhere for many fans to go. I would feel a little annoyed, as I am not fond of HF or Ninjago, and this site is the only real fanbase left. It's a little sad. If lego brought bionicle back, but with more advanced sets, like the earlier ones, this site would be popular again no doubt.


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#20 Offline Aanchir: Rachira of Time

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 02:53 PM

- Bionicle had an extensive storyline and complex universe that provided a rich source of discussion. Current themes have moved away from that setup to focus on action and comedy, leaving little potential for discussion.


Ninjago's storyline is very extensive, actually. Its universe isn't as complex as the BIONICLE universe, in that there aren't things like giant robots housing entire universes, alien materials that have lots of different forms, or tons of magical powers with complex rules about how they affect things. It doesn't need an "Ask Greg" as badly as BIONICLE did because it isn't quite as bewildering and convoluted. But there's still a wealth of things to discuss, including some things BIONICLE lacked almost entirely, such as shipping.
 
There's a lot of action and comedy, sure. The same holds true of plenty of BIONICLE media. But it doesn't take the place of complex storytelling — rather, it enriches it. And as I said, it certainly doesn't limit discussion. There's tons of Ninjago discussion taking place every day on sites like deviantART, Eurobricks, Tumblr, the LEGO Message Boards, and various LEGO-related blogs.
 

If this site wasn't focused around bionicle, then there would be nowhere for many fans to go. I would feel a little annoyed, as I am not fond of HF or Ninjago, and this site is the only real fanbase left. It's a little sad. If lego brought bionicle back, but with more advanced sets, like the earlier ones, this site would be popular again no doubt.

BIONICLE fans wouldn't have to leave just because the site expands its focus. There's plenty of discussion of things other than BIONICLE on sites like Youtube or Eurobricks, but that doesn't stop fans from congregating there. The idea that expanding the site's focus would somehow "drive away" BIONICLE fans is downright ridiculous. If anything it gives them more of a reason to stay, since it would provide them with new things to discuss and new people to discuss them with.

Edited by Aanchir: Rachira of Time, Dec 04 2013 - 02:54 PM.

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#21 Offline Dragonstar7

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 03:11 PM

Nothing ever happens. The site keeps getting slower, and everyone is still staring at the Bionicle Mafia topic waiting for someone else to post. :P

Ouch...(just kidding)

 

 

Forget it. If you want to talk Ninjago, start a Ninjago topic. Pose some questions. If you want to talk Chima, start a Chima topic. You get the drift. I don't care if you're a staff member or not. There's a lot worse things that could be going on here than a staff member starting a Chima topic and it dying a postless death. That would be better than all of us sitting around here postulating what-ifs and complaining about what everyone else isn't doing.

 

But I think if you start the topic, and revive it every time it dies, then eventually people will join the site who want to talk about it.  That's just a theory. Don't call it a fact. But I think it's worth a try. 

 

But if you don't want a change, join the party. Not many of us want to talk about HF or Chima or Ninjago...we came here to discuss Bionicle. We might as well start more Bionicle topics. Except that new Bionicle information to start them with is at a premium these days. Fewer people on the net, besides us, want to talk about it. And then the older members leave...

 

Fewer members = fewer topics = fewer members = fewer topics...cue postitronic death spirial of inevitable doom. Unless Bionicle comes back. Good luck with that. 

We could post the links to the topic here, maybe, if anyone's possibly interested. But it's true, very true.


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#22 Offline -Windrider-

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 03:24 PM

Forget it. If you want to talk Ninjago, start a Ninjago topic. Pose some questions. If you want to talk Chima, start a Chima topic. You get the drift. I don't care if you're a staff member or not. There's a lot worse things that could be going on here than a staff member starting a Chima topic and it dying a postless death. That would be better than all of us sitting around here postulating what-ifs and complaining about what everyone else isn't doing.

 

It's true - some of the onus is on the members. Apathy is mortal. So is inaction. However, I really don't want to see all of this turn into an us vs. them affair. I understand that hoping for a perfect unity that would support BZPower's activity is in vain. Some have already expressed that they prefer BZPower the way it is. Others might wish for the site's growth, but stay in silent hope. That is fine. I don't think, however, that we can rely solely on the efforts of the current BZPower population to keep the site alive. And really, most of the onus falls on the administration. I know Black Six cares deeply about the site and wants to get our name out there. Sure, change has a history of moving slowly here, so it doesn't hurt to give a nudge every now and then - but, I do know that the site's death is not desired in any way. While it is true that going off and posting will help maintain BZP's current activity for a little while longer, it is not a sustainable action. Proposing suggestions to help increase BZPower's active population may seem to be in vain, but in the long run, it is not - provided that the suggestions be viable.

 

 

 

But if you don't want a change, join the party. Not many of us want to talk about HF or Chima or Ninjago...we came here to discuss Bionicle. We might as well start more Bionicle topics. Except that new Bionicle information to start them with is at a premium these days. Fewer people on the net, besides us, want to talk about it. And then the older members leave...

 

Fewer members = fewer topics = fewer members = fewer topics...cue postitronic death spirial of inevitable doom. Unless Bionicle comes back. Good luck with that. 

 

I don't expect any changes made on BZPower to have universal appeal. To me, at least, the essence of this site - community - is something that I don't want to see perish, be it one that discusses Bionicle, or one that discusses LEGO in general. I think Aanchir is right: Bionicle fans should never feel and would never be excluded from BZPower.


Edited by -Windrider-, Dec 04 2013 - 04:29 PM.

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#23 Offline UngluedBike

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 04:49 PM

Well, I still really like this site and have only been a member since just before the server purge, but I like it enough that I'm buying lifetime premier. If people like me are still willing to pay to keep this place running then there should be no problem.


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#24 Offline turtleman

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 04:52 PM

Well first off: The plan the OP proposed wouldn't make the site popular again, it would cause a server crash if enough people participated :P

Besides that, I think BZP is a home for constraction themes and should stay focused on them. Sure some system is incoporated and discussed, but mainly BZP is for bionicle and HF which isn't as bad as people think.

We need more HF discussion because it does allow for a lot of imagination. I'm not saying Bionicle is an unimaginative theme for building and writing, but HF leaves alot for you to decide and is way less complicated. I love Bionicle, I'm sure everyone here does too, but HF is awesome too. Just because its not an insanely detailed plot of epicness doesn't mean its bad. 

Furthermore, i don't think its too late to get HF fans, its still going on. Its too late to get Bionicle fans because that theme has died, but we still fondly remember and add to the corpse. HF is continuing. People who like constraction themes, HF, can be converted to Bionicle fans and the site grows and becomes a home for both HF and Bionicle.


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#25 Offline Lyichir

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 05:37 PM

Well first off: The plan the OP proposed wouldn't make the site popular again, it would cause a server crash if enough people participated :P
Besides that, I think BZP is a home for constraction themes and should stay focused on them. Sure some system is incoporated and discussed, but mainly BZP is for bionicle and HF which isn't as bad as people think.
We need more HF discussion because it does allow for a lot of imagination. I'm not saying Bionicle is an unimaginative theme for building and writing, but HF leaves alot for you to decide and is way less complicated. I love Bionicle, I'm sure everyone here does too, but HF is awesome too. Just because its not an insanely detailed plot of epicness doesn't mean its bad. 
Furthermore, i don't think its too late to get HF fans, its still going on. Its too late to get Bionicle fans because that theme has died, but we still fondly remember and add to the corpse. HF is continuing. People who like constraction themes, HF, can be converted to Bionicle fans and the site grows and becomes a home for both HF and Bionicle.


While I appreciate your love for Hero Factory (I like the theme, too), I don't think Hero Factory alone can or should form the backbone of BZPower discussion going forward. For one, Hero Factory often has hardly enough story to discuss. I agree that the theme is easier to expand with your own characters and settings than Bionicle was, but in terms of concrete story details, Hero Factory doesn't have a lot. What it has had are TV specials (which currently are being done at a rate of one every year), comics (the few of which we've had covered the exact same ground as the TV specials), chapter books (which are apparently not continuing this year), and online games (which have never and probably will never match the Mata Nui Online Game in terms of worldbuilding and storytelling). Hero Factory is, on the whole, shockingly less media-heavy than Bionicle was, and if we continue to focus on that theme alone, the media and story discussion forums on BZPower will continue to be a shell of what they once were.

 

I'm of the opinion that at this point, limiting BZPower's focus to constraction themes is as foolhardy as limiting it to Bionicle alone would have been after that theme ended its run. Bionicle was a constraction theme, but its deep, original storyline was what made it revolutionary and set it apart from other themes. Now that storyline focus has been adopted by a number of other Lego themes, yet most Lego websites treat the stories these themes tell as an afterthought, or just as the means to the end of having cool Lego sets. I continue to think that the best thing BZPower can do to improve its activity level is to open its doors to fans of these other themes, which so often have been forced to do without a hub of story discussion. Will it be easy to attract fans of other themes to BZPower from distant corners of the net? Far from it. But it's still the most promising direction for the site to take if we want to attract new members and replenish the site's dwindling userbase.


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#26 Offline Wazdakka

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 09:09 PM

 

 

DV made a great suggestion which I still stand behind today - BZPower should become the home of all "storyline" Lego - currently there's no real home for people to discuss the stories of Lego themes like Ninjago, Chima, and so on. We could be that home. Constraction's too narrow of a focus.

Personally, I see BZPower/BS01 (and BMP) as the last real homes of the BIONICLE fanbase online. I can see why you'd want that, but as long as BZPower can run without others, I think it would be best to preserve that. If you make it a hub for everything, it's loses that special aspect.

 

Okay, but the bionicle fanbase doesn't really exist anymore. That's the whole point of this topic. There's nothing sustaining it and if we just stay stagnant the site will continue to dwindle.

 

If there's no Bionicle fanbase left, why are you here? 

I agree with Aanchir... you've got to ensure a place for Bionicle fans, and BZPower should be such a place. 


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#27 Offline Dragonstar7

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 09:14 PM

Um, Wazdakka, did you see his other post?

We're all talking about two different things - there's maintaining your userbase, and there's growing it. Let's be honest - there are not "new" Bionicle fans being made anymore. There may be people who nostalgically remember it but were never part of our community, but these aren't the kind of people who passionately join conversations - they might give a cursory glance, smile, and move on at best. Growing the userbase means finding new, and -young- people who are passionate and actively interested in discussion. 

 

 

 

DV made a great suggestion which I still stand behind today - BZPower should become the home of all "storyline" Lego - currently there's no real home for people to discuss the stories of Lego themes like Ninjago, Chima, and so on. We could be that home. Constraction's too narrow of a focus.

Personally, I see BZPower/BS01 (and BMP) as the last real homes of the BIONICLE fanbase online. I can see why you'd want that, but as long as BZPower can run without others, I think it would be best to preserve that. If you make it a hub for everything, it's loses that special aspect.

 

Okay, but the bionicle fanbase doesn't really exist anymore. That's the whole point of this topic. There's nothing sustaining it and if we just stay stagnant the site will continue to dwindle.

 

It's not what it once was, but when I came back to the site I was expecting a ghost town. This is far from a ghost town. I've managed a few failing forums and this does not look a thing like any of them. There's still plenty of BIONICLE discussion going on, even. If that weren't happening, and the discussion were all Hero Factory, I could see reason to diversify (for then the BIONICLE community would really have been dead), but it's not like that.

 

I didn't say it was failing, just dwindling, and that's not really debatable. It's a fact that activity is way down from where it was. Why? Because Bionicle as a franchise isn't attracting new fans in any real way. Hero factory is the next best thing, but for whatever reason I don't see the enthusiasm for that line here like there was for Bionicle. You know where the enthusiasm is? Ninjago. Kids love it. They love it so much the entire line came back from the dead, which is a rare thing. If we could provide a really good place to discuss the story I'd bet we'd see a significant increase in population. I don't know if Chima has the same popularity yet - it did take a year or two for Ninjago to get cemented, probably the same case here, but if we really got on the ball with it I could see it paying off significant dividends.There are thousands of Lego sites out there - we have to provide something that they don't. The way I see it, we were so successful because back in the day we did that in two ways - We provided a space that focused on the Technic/Constraction/whatever you want to call it style of building that was ignored by a large portion of the community, and a serious and in-depth place for people to discuss and examine the story, with up to date information and insight you couldn't find anywhere else. You don't see that anymore. Perusing the news gives you a few announcements of showtimes and reviews of sets you can find anywhere across the internet, without much in the way of real looks at the various shows, books, comics that are being produced to promote these lines, an area that was once our area of expertise. We still have the constraction focus, but these days other communities are much more willing to lend space to buildable action figures, and the more they do the more it chips at our share of the audience.

 


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#28 Offline Justin Bieber

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Posted Dec 06 2013 - 04:53 PM

I don't know why people think that broadening BZPower's focus to include Ninjago and Chima would leave no place for the BIONICLE fans. We're not talking about changing the focus: we're talking about broadening the focus. BIONICLE would still be included; we'd just be adding Hero Factory, Ninjago, Chima, and possibly others. BIONICLE will always be a part of BZPower.

 

I recognize that some people say BZPower has always been a place for BIONICLE fans, and they feel threatened by a change, but I'll be honest: it's irrational to refuse necessary change just because it's uncomfortable. If we don't broaden our focus, BZPower will eventually die, because more members are leaving the forum than joining. And that's happening because our focus is on a dead line. If we want BZPower to stick around, we need to be willing to look at change, and judge it based on its positive and negative attributes, not immediately dismissing it because "it's not BIONICLE so we don't like it."

 

Said change (broadening our focus) would have the effect of bringing in new members, thereby extending BZPower's life, which means BIONICLE fans would still have a place to congregate. If we refuse to change, however, BZPower will eventually fade away, and then where will you go to discuss BIONICLE? 


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#29 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Dec 07 2013 - 09:11 AM

Please explain how you intend to focus on the current lines. What is there about them that the members of this site would discuss? Would the S&T crowd want to discuss their simple, light-hearted, episode-contained stories? Would the Technic/constraction MOCists want to discuss System sets? I think if the desire to do this was really there, the members would've done it by now.

 

If the staff want to try to turn this place into HFPower or ChimaPower or LegoStoryThemesPower or whatever else, then I'm happy for them to make the attempt. I just don't think it'd be a success.


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#30 Offline InnerRayg

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Posted Dec 07 2013 - 09:35 PM

In response to a few points made - it's not making topics about stuff that attracts people, it's the news and information. That's our hook. If we had any kind of focus in our news stories on the actual media being produced by the Lego company - books, television, games, whatever, we'd attract the kids looking for that information on the internet. Then they join looking to discuss it further. I don't know about y'all but I certainly found BZP because I wanted to know more about the Rahkshi. Same theory here.

And more generally, let's not get so high and mighty pretending Bionicle was ever somehow not as lighthearted and simple as any of the other lines Lego is producing. Go back and watch any of the Bionicle movies and you'll see it's all pretty much on the same level as any given Hero Factory, Chima or Ninjago episode. The only part of it that ever had real 'complexity' to it was the books, and guess what? exact same dude is writing all the books now as back then. I haven't read them, but I bet he's still adding just as much into it as he always was. We just don't hear about it.

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#31 Offline UngluedBike

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 04:36 AM

if this site is near the end of its life, then do I really want lifetime membership?


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#32 Offline BobaFett2

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 09:19 AM

In response to a few points made - it's not making topics about stuff that attracts people, it's the news and information. That's our hook. If we had any kind of focus in our news stories on the actual media being produced by the Lego company - books, television, games, whatever, we'd attract the kids looking for that information on the internet. Then they join looking to discuss it further. I don't know about y'all but I certainly found BZP because I wanted to know more about the Rahkshi. Same theory here.

And more generally, let's not get so high and mighty pretending Bionicle was ever somehow not as lighthearted and simple as any of the other lines Lego is producing. Go back and watch any of the Bionicle movies and you'll see it's all pretty much on the same level as any given Hero Factory, Chima or Ninjago episode. The only part of it that ever had real 'complexity' to it was the books, and guess what? exact same dude is writing all the books now as back then. I haven't read them, but I bet he's still adding just as much into it as he always was. We just don't hear about it.

I strongly disagree. The movies (at least the first three) are far less lighthearted than just about any LEGO theme. I've watched Hero Factory and Ninjago. Ninjago is very lighthearted, and Hero Factory is pretty tame. BIONICLE may not be an ultra-dark theme, but it has the least lighthearted themes of any theme, I think.

 

The complexity of BIONICLE...perhaps. The themes which can accurately be compared to BIONICLE are about as complex as BIONICLE was in its early years. It got a lot more complex than other themes later on. Also, if MNOG and MNOG II were canon, it would definitely have been more complex.

Edit: Saved too early.


Edited by BobaFett2, Dec 08 2013 - 12:08 PM.

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#33 Offline Aanchir: Rachira of Time

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 11:13 AM

Please explain how you intend to focus on the current lines. What is there about them that the members of this site would discuss? Would the S&T crowd want to discuss their simple, light-hearted, episode-contained stories? Would the Technic/constraction MOCists want to discuss System sets? I think if the desire to do this was really there, the members would've done it by now.

But what you seem to be missing is that people ARE having these kinds of discussions. They're just not having them here, on BZPower. This isn't about the members we currently have, it's about the people we COULD be trying to attract to the site. People who are every bit as dedicated to the story and sets of themes like Chima and Ninjago as BIONICLE fans were to that theme's story.

And I'm not sure, have you watched the Ninjago TV series all the way through? Because it's extremely continuity-heavy. Just because every episode tells a more or less complete story, rather than ending on a cliffhanger like the typical BIONICLE comic, doesn't make the overarching story less complex or intricate.

The book and graphic novels mostly tell stand-alone stories that are sometimes difficult to fit into the timeline of the show, but in some respects that's just another thing to discuss. Furthermore, they still drop some pretty heavy continuity from time to time. Kai: Ninja of Fire and Zane: Ninja of Ice were the first pieces of Ninjago media that dealt with Zane's mysterious origins. "Tomb of the Fangpyre", the first graphic novel, has some information on the origins of the Serpentine that does an incredible job tying the series' first three story arcs together as the machinations of one entity.

As far as set discussion is concerned, I don't know why the difference between System and Constraction should be a terribly huge issue. After all, there are plenty of BIONICLE fans who had little to no interest in the sets, and who were concerned only with the story and media. And they played a big role in driving the site's activity back in the day. Anyhow, plenty of LEGO sites succeed just fine without focusing narrowly on just one building style.

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#34 Offline Agnes Oblige

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 05:00 PM

As far as set discussion is concerned, I don't know why the difference between System and Constraction should be a terribly huge issue. After all, there are plenty of BIONICLE fans who had little to no interest in the sets, and who were concerned only with the story and media. And they played a big role in driving the site's activity back in the day. Anyhow, plenty of LEGO sites succeed just fine without focusing narrowly on just one building style.

 

I agree with this wholeheartedly - focusing on one over the other doesn't make sense, and in all honesty if it is one over the other, it should be System.

 

Perhaps some visual overhaul of the site (mainly/especially the main page) to coincide with the "Invasion from Below" set release in March? In North America that'll be when the target audience starts looking them up an all, so if BZPower was right up on the search results advertising for Invasion from Below discussion and news, they'll click it - and if, say, the front page was themed to Invasion from Below, it'll trigger an "oh cool, this site is all about this latest line of sets I really like!". 


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#35 Offline InnerRayg

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 07:01 PM

In response to a few points made - it's not making topics about stuff that attracts people, it's the news and information. That's our hook. If we had any kind of focus in our news stories on the actual media being produced by the Lego company - books, television, games, whatever, we'd attract the kids looking for that information on the internet. Then they join looking to discuss it further. I don't know about y'all but I certainly found BZP because I wanted to know more about the Rahkshi. Same theory here.

And more generally, let's not get so high and mighty pretending Bionicle was ever somehow not as lighthearted and simple as any of the other lines Lego is producing. Go back and watch any of the Bionicle movies and you'll see it's all pretty much on the same level as any given Hero Factory, Chima or Ninjago episode. The only part of it that ever had real 'complexity' to it was the books, and guess what? exact same dude is writing all the books now as back then. I haven't read them, but I bet he's still adding just as much into it as he always was. We just don't hear about it.

I strongly disagree. The movies (at least the first three) are far less lighthearted than just about any LEGO theme. I've watched Hero Factory and Ninjago. Ninjago is very lighthearted, and Hero Factory is pretty tame. BIONICLE may not be an ultra-dark theme, but it has the least lighthearted themes of any theme, I think.


Perhaps, but the differences in the level of lightheartedness is imperceptible on anything but a tiny scale. They all were very simple in their themes, their characters were not complex, and their conflict was clearly defined. They were, in a word, kid shows. Not that this is a bad thing, which is really the overarching point I'm trying to make here. These kinds of shows would still fit into the mold we've formed here.

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#36 Offline BobaFett2

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 07:49 PM

 

 

In response to a few points made - it's not making topics about stuff that attracts people, it's the news and information. That's our hook. If we had any kind of focus in our news stories on the actual media being produced by the Lego company - books, television, games, whatever, we'd attract the kids looking for that information on the internet. Then they join looking to discuss it further. I don't know about y'all but I certainly found BZP because I wanted to know more about the Rahkshi. Same theory here.

And more generally, let's not get so high and mighty pretending Bionicle was ever somehow not as lighthearted and simple as any of the other lines Lego is producing. Go back and watch any of the Bionicle movies and you'll see it's all pretty much on the same level as any given Hero Factory, Chima or Ninjago episode. The only part of it that ever had real 'complexity' to it was the books, and guess what? exact same dude is writing all the books now as back then. I haven't read them, but I bet he's still adding just as much into it as he always was. We just don't hear about it.

I strongly disagree. The movies (at least the first three) are far less lighthearted than just about any LEGO theme. I've watched Hero Factory and Ninjago. Ninjago is very lighthearted, and Hero Factory is pretty tame. BIONICLE may not be an ultra-dark theme, but it has the least lighthearted themes of any theme, I think.

 


Perhaps, but the differences in the level of lightheartedness is imperceptible on anything but a tiny scale. They all were very simple in their themes, their characters were not complex, and their conflict was clearly defined. They were, in a word, kid shows. Not that this is a bad thing, which is really the overarching point I'm trying to make here. These kinds of shows would still fit into the mold we've formed here.

 

 

Again, I strongly disagree.

 

The only lightheartedness present in BIONICLE is stuff associated with Le-Matoran/Toa of Air (plus Pohatu once or twice when he's bugging Kopaka) through 2004, after which nothing is lighthearted - the Visorak are a monstrous plague, Mata Nui is dying and he has to be saved (and the Matoran on Voya Nui are held captive by murderous brutes), even more powerful and evil sea creatures are trying to take the Mask of Life, and then the Toa have to face off against beings of shadow, the embodiments of evil in the Matoran Universe. The only real exception before 2009 is Mata Nui Online Game (MNOG II is pretty calm and fun but doesn't have that same sense of humor that MNOG did) - which isn't even canon, and in 2009 the only exception is Berix. Bara Magna definitely isn't light-hearted.

 

Compare that to any Ninjago episode. I can't say for sure with Hero Factory as I've only seen the first two seasons (and it was a while ago) - maybe that isn't lighthearted, but just about any other LEGO theme is (the other exception I can think of off the top of my head is Alpha Team).

 

BIONICLE was clearly for kids but it was not your run-of-the-mill theme.


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#37 Offline Lyichir

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 09:51 PM

 

 

 

In response to a few points made - it's not making topics about stuff that attracts people, it's the news and information. That's our hook. If we had any kind of focus in our news stories on the actual media being produced by the Lego company - books, television, games, whatever, we'd attract the kids looking for that information on the internet. Then they join looking to discuss it further. I don't know about y'all but I certainly found BZP because I wanted to know more about the Rahkshi. Same theory here.

And more generally, let's not get so high and mighty pretending Bionicle was ever somehow not as lighthearted and simple as any of the other lines Lego is producing. Go back and watch any of the Bionicle movies and you'll see it's all pretty much on the same level as any given Hero Factory, Chima or Ninjago episode. The only part of it that ever had real 'complexity' to it was the books, and guess what? exact same dude is writing all the books now as back then. I haven't read them, but I bet he's still adding just as much into it as he always was. We just don't hear about it.

I strongly disagree. The movies (at least the first three) are far less lighthearted than just about any LEGO theme. I've watched Hero Factory and Ninjago. Ninjago is very lighthearted, and Hero Factory is pretty tame. BIONICLE may not be an ultra-dark theme, but it has the least lighthearted themes of any theme, I think.

 


Perhaps, but the differences in the level of lightheartedness is imperceptible on anything but a tiny scale. They all were very simple in their themes, their characters were not complex, and their conflict was clearly defined. They were, in a word, kid shows. Not that this is a bad thing, which is really the overarching point I'm trying to make here. These kinds of shows would still fit into the mold we've formed here.

 

 

Again, I strongly disagree.

 

The only lightheartedness present in BIONICLE is stuff associated with Le-Matoran/Toa of Air (plus Pohatu once or twice when he's bugging Kopaka) through 2004, after which nothing is lighthearted - the Visorak are a monstrous plague, Mata Nui is dying and he has to be saved (and the Matoran on Voya Nui are held captive by murderous brutes), even more powerful and evil sea creatures are trying to take the Mask of Life, and then the Toa have to face off against beings of shadow, the embodiments of evil in the Matoran Universe. The only real exception before 2009 is Mata Nui Online Game (MNOG II is pretty calm and fun but doesn't have that same sense of humor that MNOG did) - which isn't even canon, and in 2009 the only exception is Berix. Bara Magna definitely isn't light-hearted.

 

Compare that to any Ninjago episode. I can't say for sure with Hero Factory as I've only seen the first two seasons (and it was a while ago) - maybe that isn't lighthearted, but just about any other LEGO theme is (the other exception I can think of off the top of my head is Alpha Team).

 

BIONICLE was clearly for kids but it was not your run-of-the-mill theme.

 

 

Okay, let's see. The Visorak are akin to the Serpentine, including (in the case of the Fangpyre) the ability to mutate and corrupt innocents. The death of Mata Nui is essentially an apocalypse, the likes of which The Overlord and Great Devourer threatened Ninjago with. Powerful snake-men, undead skeletons, and invincible stone warriors face the Ninja and try to take the Golden Weapons, Fang Blades, or whatever other plot trinket is currently in play, not unlike the modus operandi of almost every Bionicle villain. The Ninja have faced shadow doppelgangers of themselves, corrupted versions of each other, and of course the Overlord, the embodiment of all that is evil in the world. That's not even taking into account non-show Ninjago stories like those in the chapter books or graphic novels (and Bionicle's darkest points were, probably not coincidentally, mostly confined to the comics and chapter books).

I admit Bionicle did take itself mega-seriously, aside from the occasional light-hearted banter between Toa. But this was almost more of a failing than a virtue, and it's no wonder that the "non-canon" Mata Nui Online Game is considered by a vast number of fans to be a high point of the series, and one of the aspects of it that has aged best. I don't even know why you bring up Berix at all; he's no more light-hearted than any Matoran or Toa, so I'm assuming you're talking about his nasally voice, which gets an undue amount of hate.

 

Lego media is often, at its core, light-hearted. That doesn't prevent it from presenting serious stories with amazing characters and dynamic and engaging universes. And I think those were the aspects of Bionicle's story that made it ripe for discussion; not necessarily the grimdark tone it began to adopt more and more in later years.


Edited by Lyichir, Dec 08 2013 - 09:53 PM.

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#38 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 10:07 PM

 

 

 

In response to a few points made - it's not making topics about stuff that attracts people, it's the news and information. That's our hook. If we had any kind of focus in our news stories on the actual media being produced by the Lego company - books, television, games, whatever, we'd attract the kids looking for that information on the internet. Then they join looking to discuss it further. I don't know about y'all but I certainly found BZP because I wanted to know more about the Rahkshi. Same theory here.

And more generally, let's not get so high and mighty pretending Bionicle was ever somehow not as lighthearted and simple as any of the other lines Lego is producing. Go back and watch any of the Bionicle movies and you'll see it's all pretty much on the same level as any given Hero Factory, Chima or Ninjago episode. The only part of it that ever had real 'complexity' to it was the books, and guess what? exact same dude is writing all the books now as back then. I haven't read them, but I bet he's still adding just as much into it as he always was. We just don't hear about it.

I strongly disagree. The movies (at least the first three) are far less lighthearted than just about any LEGO theme. I've watched Hero Factory and Ninjago. Ninjago is very lighthearted, and Hero Factory is pretty tame. BIONICLE may not be an ultra-dark theme, but it has the least lighthearted themes of any theme, I think.

 


Perhaps, but the differences in the level of lightheartedness is imperceptible on anything but a tiny scale. They all were very simple in their themes, their characters were not complex, and their conflict was clearly defined. They were, in a word, kid shows. Not that this is a bad thing, which is really the overarching point I'm trying to make here. These kinds of shows would still fit into the mold we've formed here.

 

 

Again, I strongly disagree.

 

The only lightheartedness present in BIONICLE is stuff associated with Le-Matoran/Toa of Air (plus Pohatu once or twice when he's bugging Kopaka) through 2004, after which nothing is lighthearted - the Visorak are a monstrous plague, Mata Nui is dying and he has to be saved (and the Matoran on Voya Nui are held captive by murderous brutes), even more powerful and evil sea creatures are trying to take the Mask of Life, and then the Toa have to face off against beings of shadow, the embodiments of evil in the Matoran Universe. The only real exception before 2009 is Mata Nui Online Game (MNOG II is pretty calm and fun but doesn't have that same sense of humor that MNOG did) - which isn't even canon, and in 2009 the only exception is Berix. Bara Magna definitely isn't light-hearted.

 

Compare that to any Ninjago episode. I can't say for sure with Hero Factory as I've only seen the first two seasons (and it was a while ago) - maybe that isn't lighthearted, but just about any other LEGO theme is (the other exception I can think of off the top of my head is Alpha Team).

 

BIONICLE was clearly for kids but it was not your run-of-the-mill theme.

 

 

Lightheartedness isn't a bad thing. Terraria never takes itself seriously and I love that game.

It was actually quite lighthearted and kid-ish other than what you mentioned. But I won't bother to list all of that.

It's not about what happens, but how it's handled. I think you should make yourself more informed before you start using blanket statements like the ones you did. And you can describe anything in that way (as the poster above me did) and make it seem as dreary or lighthearted as you please.


Edited by ~Shockwave~, Dec 08 2013 - 10:13 PM.

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#39 Offline BobaFett2

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 10:13 PM

 

 

 

 

In response to a few points made - it's not making topics about stuff that attracts people, it's the news and information. That's our hook. If we had any kind of focus in our news stories on the actual media being produced by the Lego company - books, television, games, whatever, we'd attract the kids looking for that information on the internet. Then they join looking to discuss it further. I don't know about y'all but I certainly found BZP because I wanted to know more about the Rahkshi. Same theory here.

And more generally, let's not get so high and mighty pretending Bionicle was ever somehow not as lighthearted and simple as any of the other lines Lego is producing. Go back and watch any of the Bionicle movies and you'll see it's all pretty much on the same level as any given Hero Factory, Chima or Ninjago episode. The only part of it that ever had real 'complexity' to it was the books, and guess what? exact same dude is writing all the books now as back then. I haven't read them, but I bet he's still adding just as much into it as he always was. We just don't hear about it.

I strongly disagree. The movies (at least the first three) are far less lighthearted than just about any LEGO theme. I've watched Hero Factory and Ninjago. Ninjago is very lighthearted, and Hero Factory is pretty tame. BIONICLE may not be an ultra-dark theme, but it has the least lighthearted themes of any theme, I think.

 


Perhaps, but the differences in the level of lightheartedness is imperceptible on anything but a tiny scale. They all were very simple in their themes, their characters were not complex, and their conflict was clearly defined. They were, in a word, kid shows. Not that this is a bad thing, which is really the overarching point I'm trying to make here. These kinds of shows would still fit into the mold we've formed here.

 

 

Again, I strongly disagree.

 

The only lightheartedness present in BIONICLE is stuff associated with Le-Matoran/Toa of Air (plus Pohatu once or twice when he's bugging Kopaka) through 2004, after which nothing is lighthearted - the Visorak are a monstrous plague, Mata Nui is dying and he has to be saved (and the Matoran on Voya Nui are held captive by murderous brutes), even more powerful and evil sea creatures are trying to take the Mask of Life, and then the Toa have to face off against beings of shadow, the embodiments of evil in the Matoran Universe. The only real exception before 2009 is Mata Nui Online Game (MNOG II is pretty calm and fun but doesn't have that same sense of humor that MNOG did) - which isn't even canon, and in 2009 the only exception is Berix. Bara Magna definitely isn't light-hearted.

 

Compare that to any Ninjago episode. I can't say for sure with Hero Factory as I've only seen the first two seasons (and it was a while ago) - maybe that isn't lighthearted, but just about any other LEGO theme is (the other exception I can think of off the top of my head is Alpha Team).

 

BIONICLE was clearly for kids but it was not your run-of-the-mill theme.

 

 

Okay, let's see. The Visorak are akin to the Serpentine, including (in the case of the Fangpyre) the ability to mutate and corrupt innocents. The death of Mata Nui is essentially an apocalypse, the likes of which The Overlord and Great Devourer threatened Ninjago with. Powerful snake-men, undead skeletons, and invincible stone warriors face the Ninja and try to take the Golden Weapons, Fang Blades, or whatever other plot trinket is currently in play, not unlike the modus operandi of almost every Bionicle villain. The Ninja have faced shadow doppelgangers of themselves, corrupted versions of each other, and of course the Overlord, the embodiment of all that is evil in the world. That's not even taking into account non-show Ninjago stories like those in the chapter books or graphic novels (and Bionicle's darkest points were, probably not coincidentally, mostly confined to the comics and chapter books).

I admit Bionicle did take itself mega-seriously, aside from the occasional light-hearted banter between Toa. But this was almost more of a failing than a virtue, and it's no wonder that the "non-canon" Mata Nui Online Game is considered by a vast number of fans to be a high point of the series, and one of the aspects of it that has aged best. I don't even know why you bring up Berix at all; he's no more light-hearted than any Matoran or Toa, so I'm assuming you're talking about his nasally voice, which gets an undue amount of hate.

 

Lego media is often, at its core, light-hearted. That doesn't prevent it from presenting serious stories with amazing characters and dynamic and engaging universes. And I think those were the aspects of Bionicle's story that made it ripe for discussion; not necessarily the grimdark tone it began to adopt more and more in later years.

 

 

I actually meant some of the stuff related to his "collecting". I don't mind his voice.

 

The Visorak's powers may somewhat resemble the Serpentine, but the comparison ends there. The Serpentine are ridiculous oafs who cannot do anything right. They behave childishly the only capable ones are the leaders - only the big leader has any real ability or intelligence. Every scene the Serpentine are in, they do something stupid or mess things up.

 

The Visorak, on the other hand, are deadly spiders who entrap creatures and mutate them into monstrous, crazed forms. They cover everything in their webs and are incredibly deadly.

 

Ninjago may do some things that BIONICLE does, but in Ninjago it was always filled with jokes and intended to be humorous. In BIONICLE, the fate of the city/island/world rested on it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In response to a few points made - it's not making topics about stuff that attracts people, it's the news and information. That's our hook. If we had any kind of focus in our news stories on the actual media being produced by the Lego company - books, television, games, whatever, we'd attract the kids looking for that information on the internet. Then they join looking to discuss it further. I don't know about y'all but I certainly found BZP because I wanted to know more about the Rahkshi. Same theory here.

And more generally, let's not get so high and mighty pretending Bionicle was ever somehow not as lighthearted and simple as any of the other lines Lego is producing. Go back and watch any of the Bionicle movies and you'll see it's all pretty much on the same level as any given Hero Factory, Chima or Ninjago episode. The only part of it that ever had real 'complexity' to it was the books, and guess what? exact same dude is writing all the books now as back then. I haven't read them, but I bet he's still adding just as much into it as he always was. We just don't hear about it.

I strongly disagree. The movies (at least the first three) are far less lighthearted than just about any LEGO theme. I've watched Hero Factory and Ninjago. Ninjago is very lighthearted, and Hero Factory is pretty tame. BIONICLE may not be an ultra-dark theme, but it has the least lighthearted themes of any theme, I think.

 


Perhaps, but the differences in the level of lightheartedness is imperceptible on anything but a tiny scale. They all were very simple in their themes, their characters were not complex, and their conflict was clearly defined. They were, in a word, kid shows. Not that this is a bad thing, which is really the overarching point I'm trying to make here. These kinds of shows would still fit into the mold we've formed here.

 

 

Again, I strongly disagree.

 

The only lightheartedness present in BIONICLE is stuff associated with Le-Matoran/Toa of Air (plus Pohatu once or twice when he's bugging Kopaka) through 2004, after which nothing is lighthearted - the Visorak are a monstrous plague, Mata Nui is dying and he has to be saved (and the Matoran on Voya Nui are held captive by murderous brutes), even more powerful and evil sea creatures are trying to take the Mask of Life, and then the Toa have to face off against beings of shadow, the embodiments of evil in the Matoran Universe. The only real exception before 2009 is Mata Nui Online Game (MNOG II is pretty calm and fun but doesn't have that same sense of humor that MNOG did) - which isn't even canon, and in 2009 the only exception is Berix. Bara Magna definitely isn't light-hearted.

 

Compare that to any Ninjago episode. I can't say for sure with Hero Factory as I've only seen the first two seasons (and it was a while ago) - maybe that isn't lighthearted, but just about any other LEGO theme is (the other exception I can think of off the top of my head is Alpha Team).

 

BIONICLE was clearly for kids but it was not your run-of-the-mill theme.

 

 

Lightheartedness isn't a bad thing. Terraria never takes itself seriously and I love that game.

It was actually quite lighthearted and kid-ish other than what you mentioned. But I won't bother to list all of that.

It's not about what happens, but how it's handled. I think you should make yourself more informed before you start using blanket statements like the ones you did.

 

I agree, it isn't a bad thing.

 

I exaggerated a bit, but I stand by my point. Ninjago is far more lighthearted and joking than BIONICLE, even in its early years (and there's no question that around 2005/2006 things started getting a lot more serious).


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#40 Offline Aanchir: Rachira of Time

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 10:21 PM

All the stuff I always see about BIONICLE being super dark and mature makes me think that if BIONICLE did one thing differently than other themes, it was appealing to a demographic that felt a desperate need for self-validation. These claims always seem to me like they're trying to make excuses: "sure, it's a comic book about a kids' toy, but there's so much more to it than that!" Unlike, say, the brony community, the BIONICLE community seemed too deep in denial to take a brightly-colored magical robot adventure story at face value, and any time the theme embraced that inherent sense of fun and adventure, as in the case of the movies, there was backlash from fans who didn't like having their taste for all things dark and macho and edgy challenged that way.

That's one thing I like about themes like Ninjago and Hero Factory. They explore VERY dark themes like apocalypses and mutations and corruption from time to time, like a lot of cartoons aimed at that demographic. But they don't let that distract from the fact that they're really just lighthearted adventure stories about good friends facing evil together as a team. And you know what? There's an audience that eats that stuff up. Just look at the brony community, or at fans of other kid-oriented brands like Pokémon. These communities are, for the most part, well aware that the shows they enjoy are colorful and cute and humorous and targeted primarily towards young kids... and they aren't under any illusion that those are things to be ashamed of. They have all kinds of deep online discussions about the more serious parts of the stories they enjoy, but generally they don't feel like they need to groan at every bit of comic relief or every cheery message about friendship or teamwork. I think BIONICLE fans could learn a thing or two from communities like those, and that's just one more way attracting fans of other LEGO themes like Ninjago could help improve the BZPower community.

Edited by Aanchir: Rachira of Time, Dec 08 2013 - 10:23 PM.

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