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#41 Offline Lyichir

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Posted Dec 08 2013 - 10:28 PM

 

 

 

 

 

In response to a few points made - it's not making topics about stuff that attracts people, it's the news and information. That's our hook. If we had any kind of focus in our news stories on the actual media being produced by the Lego company - books, television, games, whatever, we'd attract the kids looking for that information on the internet. Then they join looking to discuss it further. I don't know about y'all but I certainly found BZP because I wanted to know more about the Rahkshi. Same theory here.

And more generally, let's not get so high and mighty pretending Bionicle was ever somehow not as lighthearted and simple as any of the other lines Lego is producing. Go back and watch any of the Bionicle movies and you'll see it's all pretty much on the same level as any given Hero Factory, Chima or Ninjago episode. The only part of it that ever had real 'complexity' to it was the books, and guess what? exact same dude is writing all the books now as back then. I haven't read them, but I bet he's still adding just as much into it as he always was. We just don't hear about it.

I strongly disagree. The movies (at least the first three) are far less lighthearted than just about any LEGO theme. I've watched Hero Factory and Ninjago. Ninjago is very lighthearted, and Hero Factory is pretty tame. BIONICLE may not be an ultra-dark theme, but it has the least lighthearted themes of any theme, I think.

 


Perhaps, but the differences in the level of lightheartedness is imperceptible on anything but a tiny scale. They all were very simple in their themes, their characters were not complex, and their conflict was clearly defined. They were, in a word, kid shows. Not that this is a bad thing, which is really the overarching point I'm trying to make here. These kinds of shows would still fit into the mold we've formed here.

 

 

Again, I strongly disagree.

 

The only lightheartedness present in BIONICLE is stuff associated with Le-Matoran/Toa of Air (plus Pohatu once or twice when he's bugging Kopaka) through 2004, after which nothing is lighthearted - the Visorak are a monstrous plague, Mata Nui is dying and he has to be saved (and the Matoran on Voya Nui are held captive by murderous brutes), even more powerful and evil sea creatures are trying to take the Mask of Life, and then the Toa have to face off against beings of shadow, the embodiments of evil in the Matoran Universe. The only real exception before 2009 is Mata Nui Online Game (MNOG II is pretty calm and fun but doesn't have that same sense of humor that MNOG did) - which isn't even canon, and in 2009 the only exception is Berix. Bara Magna definitely isn't light-hearted.

 

Compare that to any Ninjago episode. I can't say for sure with Hero Factory as I've only seen the first two seasons (and it was a while ago) - maybe that isn't lighthearted, but just about any other LEGO theme is (the other exception I can think of off the top of my head is Alpha Team).

 

BIONICLE was clearly for kids but it was not your run-of-the-mill theme.

 

 

Okay, let's see. The Visorak are akin to the Serpentine, including (in the case of the Fangpyre) the ability to mutate and corrupt innocents. The death of Mata Nui is essentially an apocalypse, the likes of which The Overlord and Great Devourer threatened Ninjago with. Powerful snake-men, undead skeletons, and invincible stone warriors face the Ninja and try to take the Golden Weapons, Fang Blades, or whatever other plot trinket is currently in play, not unlike the modus operandi of almost every Bionicle villain. The Ninja have faced shadow doppelgangers of themselves, corrupted versions of each other, and of course the Overlord, the embodiment of all that is evil in the world. That's not even taking into account non-show Ninjago stories like those in the chapter books or graphic novels (and Bionicle's darkest points were, probably not coincidentally, mostly confined to the comics and chapter books).

I admit Bionicle did take itself mega-seriously, aside from the occasional light-hearted banter between Toa. But this was almost more of a failing than a virtue, and it's no wonder that the "non-canon" Mata Nui Online Game is considered by a vast number of fans to be a high point of the series, and one of the aspects of it that has aged best. I don't even know why you bring up Berix at all; he's no more light-hearted than any Matoran or Toa, so I'm assuming you're talking about his nasally voice, which gets an undue amount of hate.

 

Lego media is often, at its core, light-hearted. That doesn't prevent it from presenting serious stories with amazing characters and dynamic and engaging universes. And I think those were the aspects of Bionicle's story that made it ripe for discussion; not necessarily the grimdark tone it began to adopt more and more in later years.

 

 

I actually meant some of the stuff related to his "collecting". I don't mind his voice.

 

The Visorak's powers may somewhat resemble the Serpentine, but the comparison ends there. The Serpentine are ridiculous oafs who cannot do anything right. They behave childishly the only capable ones are the leaders - only the big leader has any real ability or intelligence. Every scene the Serpentine are in, they do something stupid or mess things up.

 

The Visorak, on the other hand, are deadly spiders who entrap creatures and mutate them into monstrous, crazed forms. They cover everything in their webs and are incredibly deadly.

 

Ninjago may do some things that BIONICLE does, but in Ninjago it was always filled with jokes and intended to be humorous. In BIONICLE, the fate of the city/island/world rested on it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In response to a few points made - it's not making topics about stuff that attracts people, it's the news and information. That's our hook. If we had any kind of focus in our news stories on the actual media being produced by the Lego company - books, television, games, whatever, we'd attract the kids looking for that information on the internet. Then they join looking to discuss it further. I don't know about y'all but I certainly found BZP because I wanted to know more about the Rahkshi. Same theory here.

And more generally, let's not get so high and mighty pretending Bionicle was ever somehow not as lighthearted and simple as any of the other lines Lego is producing. Go back and watch any of the Bionicle movies and you'll see it's all pretty much on the same level as any given Hero Factory, Chima or Ninjago episode. The only part of it that ever had real 'complexity' to it was the books, and guess what? exact same dude is writing all the books now as back then. I haven't read them, but I bet he's still adding just as much into it as he always was. We just don't hear about it.

I strongly disagree. The movies (at least the first three) are far less lighthearted than just about any LEGO theme. I've watched Hero Factory and Ninjago. Ninjago is very lighthearted, and Hero Factory is pretty tame. BIONICLE may not be an ultra-dark theme, but it has the least lighthearted themes of any theme, I think.

 


Perhaps, but the differences in the level of lightheartedness is imperceptible on anything but a tiny scale. They all were very simple in their themes, their characters were not complex, and their conflict was clearly defined. They were, in a word, kid shows. Not that this is a bad thing, which is really the overarching point I'm trying to make here. These kinds of shows would still fit into the mold we've formed here.

 

 

Again, I strongly disagree.

 

The only lightheartedness present in BIONICLE is stuff associated with Le-Matoran/Toa of Air (plus Pohatu once or twice when he's bugging Kopaka) through 2004, after which nothing is lighthearted - the Visorak are a monstrous plague, Mata Nui is dying and he has to be saved (and the Matoran on Voya Nui are held captive by murderous brutes), even more powerful and evil sea creatures are trying to take the Mask of Life, and then the Toa have to face off against beings of shadow, the embodiments of evil in the Matoran Universe. The only real exception before 2009 is Mata Nui Online Game (MNOG II is pretty calm and fun but doesn't have that same sense of humor that MNOG did) - which isn't even canon, and in 2009 the only exception is Berix. Bara Magna definitely isn't light-hearted.

 

Compare that to any Ninjago episode. I can't say for sure with Hero Factory as I've only seen the first two seasons (and it was a while ago) - maybe that isn't lighthearted, but just about any other LEGO theme is (the other exception I can think of off the top of my head is Alpha Team).

 

BIONICLE was clearly for kids but it was not your run-of-the-mill theme.

 

 

Lightheartedness isn't a bad thing. Terraria never takes itself seriously and I love that game.

It was actually quite lighthearted and kid-ish other than what you mentioned. But I won't bother to list all of that.

It's not about what happens, but how it's handled. I think you should make yourself more informed before you start using blanket statements like the ones you did.

 

I agree, it isn't a bad thing.

 

I exaggerated a bit, but I stand by my point. Ninjago is far more lighthearted and joking than BIONICLE, even in its early years (and there's no question that around 2005/2006 things started getting a lot more serious).

 

I have no illusions of Ninjago being less lighthearted than Bionicle. My point was that most if not all of the elements of Bionicle that you brought up as evidence of its serious story have analogues in Ninjago. Bionicle's seriousness was often a misheld pretention, since it had plenty of ridiculous or even cheesy elements (like a dystopian city where the regular laws of physics didn't apply), and the only real distinction at times was that the characters approached ridiculous situations without any sort of self-awareness or humor at all. The fact that Ninjago makes jokes at the expense of some of its villains, or that its heroes sometimes don't take their duties 100% seriously, should not keep serious discussions about the characters or the universe they live in from being able to take place.


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#42 Offline Booker DeWitt

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 01:39 AM

The only way to get this site active again is to BRING BACK BOINCLE.

 

We must all UNITE to achieve this goal.

 

“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
― J.K. Rowling, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

“All for one and one for all.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Three Musketeers

“The Destiny of Man is to unite, not to divide. If you keep on dividing you end up as a collection of monkeys throwing nuts at each other out of separate trees.”
― T.H. White

“If everyone helps to hold up the sky, then one person does not become tired.”
― Askhari Johnson Hodari, Lifelines: The Black Book of Proverbs

“Unity is vision; it must have been part of the process of learning to see.”
― Henry Adams, The Education of Henry Adams
 

Only TOGETHER can we resurrect the Bionicles, yet we stand here DIVIDED in PURPOSE, some of us with no hope at ALL.

 

Ask yourself - IS THIS WHAT THE TOAS WOULD WANT FROM US?


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#43 Offline fishers64

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 02:42 PM

I have no illusions of Ninjago being less lighthearted than Bionicle. My point was that most if not all of the elements of Bionicle that you brought up as evidence of its serious story have analogues in Ninjago. Bionicle's seriousness was often a misheld pretention, since it had plenty of ridiculous or even cheesy elements (like a dystopian city where the regular laws of physics didn't apply), and the only real distinction at times was that the characters approached ridiculous situations without any sort of self-awareness or humor at all. The fact that Ninjago makes jokes at the expense of some of its villains, or that its heroes sometimes don't take their duties 100% seriously, should not keep serious discussions about the characters or the universe they live in from being able to take place.

I think the problem is simply this: Ninjago and Chima are kid's toylines. 

 

Most of BZP's current base is older, more serious, and more mature. Therefore we do not appreciate the wonders of Ninjago and Chima. 


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#44 Offline Gatanui

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 03:06 PM

I have no illusions of Ninjago being less lighthearted than Bionicle. My point was that most if not all of the elements of Bionicle that you brought up as evidence of its serious story have analogues in Ninjago. Bionicle's seriousness was often a misheld pretention, since it had plenty of ridiculous or even cheesy elements (like a dystopian city where the regular laws of physics didn't apply), and the only real distinction at times was that the characters approached ridiculous situations without any sort of self-awareness or humor at all. The fact that Ninjago makes jokes at the expense of some of its villains, or that its heroes sometimes don't take their duties 100% seriously, should not keep serious discussions about the characters or the universe they live in from being able to take place.

I think the problem is simply this: Ninjago and Chima are kid's toylines. 
 
Most of BZP's current base is older, more serious, and more mature. Therefore we do not appreciate the wonders of Ninjago and Chima.

Are you sure about that? I know quite a few members who do.

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#45 Offline Dragonstar7

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 03:35 PM

The only way to get this site active again is to BRING BACK BOINCLE.

 

We must all UNITE to achieve this goal.

 

“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
― J.K. Rowling, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

“All for one and one for all.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Three Musketeers

“The Destiny of Man is to unite, not to divide. If you keep on dividing you end up as a collection of monkeys throwing nuts at each other out of separate trees.”
― T.H. White

“If everyone helps to hold up the sky, then one person does not become tired.”
― Askhari Johnson Hodari, Lifelines: The Black Book of Proverbs

“Unity is vision; it must have been part of the process of learning to see.”
― Henry Adams, The Education of Henry Adams
 

Only TOGETHER can we resurrect the Bionicles, yet we stand here DIVIDED in PURPOSE, some of us with no hope at ALL.

 

Ask yourself - IS THIS WHAT THE TOAS WOULD WANT FROM US?

I, as much as I would like it back, can obviously see that Lego isn't going to reverse a big decision just because of one single fan site. True, we could make a huge petition/whatever but it's simply not gonna work. Lego is Lego and we are a bunch of fans that are next to insignificant to them.


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#46 Offline fishers64

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 04:00 PM

 

 

I have no illusions of Ninjago being less lighthearted than Bionicle. My point was that most if not all of the elements of Bionicle that you brought up as evidence of its serious story have analogues in Ninjago. Bionicle's seriousness was often a misheld pretention, since it had plenty of ridiculous or even cheesy elements (like a dystopian city where the regular laws of physics didn't apply), and the only real distinction at times was that the characters approached ridiculous situations without any sort of self-awareness or humor at all. The fact that Ninjago makes jokes at the expense of some of its villains, or that its heroes sometimes don't take their duties 100% seriously, should not keep serious discussions about the characters or the universe they live in from being able to take place.

I think the problem is simply this: Ninjago and Chima are kid's toylines. 
 
Most of BZP's current base is older, more serious, and more mature. Therefore we do not appreciate the wonders of Ninjago and Chima.

 

Are you sure about that? I know quite a few members who do.

-Gata signoff.png

 

 

Yeah, but if we do we don't want to talk about it. At least, not here. 


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#47 Offline Gatanui

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 04:36 PM

I have no illusions of Ninjago being less lighthearted than Bionicle. My point was that most if not all of the elements of Bionicle that you brought up as evidence of its serious story have analogues in Ninjago. Bionicle's seriousness was often a misheld pretention, since it had plenty of ridiculous or even cheesy elements (like a dystopian city where the regular laws of physics didn't apply), and the only real distinction at times was that the characters approached ridiculous situations without any sort of self-awareness or humor at all. The fact that Ninjago makes jokes at the expense of some of its villains, or that its heroes sometimes don't take their duties 100% seriously, should not keep serious discussions about the characters or the universe they live in from being able to take place.

I think the problem is simply this: Ninjago and Chima are kid's toylines. 
 
Most of BZP's current base is older, more serious, and more mature. Therefore we do not appreciate the wonders of Ninjago and Chima.

Are you sure about that? I know quite a few members who do.

-Gata signoff.png

 
Yeah, but if we do we don't want to talk about it. At least, not here.

Perhaps that's one thing that needs to change.

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#48 Offline fishers64

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 05:25 PM

 

 

 

 

I have no illusions of Ninjago being less lighthearted than Bionicle. My point was that most if not all of the elements of Bionicle that you brought up as evidence of its serious story have analogues in Ninjago. Bionicle's seriousness was often a misheld pretention, since it had plenty of ridiculous or even cheesy elements (like a dystopian city where the regular laws of physics didn't apply), and the only real distinction at times was that the characters approached ridiculous situations without any sort of self-awareness or humor at all. The fact that Ninjago makes jokes at the expense of some of its villains, or that its heroes sometimes don't take their duties 100% seriously, should not keep serious discussions about the characters or the universe they live in from being able to take place.

I think the problem is simply this: Ninjago and Chima are kid's toylines. 
 
Most of BZP's current base is older, more serious, and more mature. Therefore we do not appreciate the wonders of Ninjago and Chima.

 

Are you sure about that? I know quite a few members who do.

-Gata signoff.png

 

 
Yeah, but if we do we don't want to talk about it. At least, not here.

 

Perhaps that's one thing that needs to change.

-Gata signoff.png

 

Well, that's the problem - how do you change it? 

 

(I made a Ninjago topic last week or something, and got three replies or something out of it. Topics about HF or the Lego Movie get a lot more mileage, and Bionicle is like three times that amount. :shrugs: So that's not going to work...)


Edited by fishers64, Dec 09 2013 - 05:26 PM.

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#49 Offline Aanchir: Rachira of Time

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Posted Dec 09 2013 - 07:49 PM


 

 

 

 

I have no illusions of Ninjago being less lighthearted than Bionicle. My point was that most if not all of the elements of Bionicle that you brought up as evidence of its serious story have analogues in Ninjago. Bionicle's seriousness was often a misheld pretention, since it had plenty of ridiculous or even cheesy elements (like a dystopian city where the regular laws of physics didn't apply), and the only real distinction at times was that the characters approached ridiculous situations without any sort of self-awareness or humor at all. The fact that Ninjago makes jokes at the expense of some of its villains, or that its heroes sometimes don't take their duties 100% seriously, should not keep serious discussions about the characters or the universe they live in from being able to take place.

I think the problem is simply this: Ninjago and Chima are kid's toylines. 
 
Most of BZP's current base is older, more serious, and more mature. Therefore we do not appreciate the wonders of Ninjago and Chima.
 
Are you sure about that? I know quite a few members who do.

-Gata signoff.png

 
 
Yeah, but if we do we don't want to talk about it. At least, not here.
 
Perhaps that's one thing that needs to change.

-Gata signoff.png

 
Well, that's the problem - how do you change it? 
 
(I made a Ninjago topic last week or something, and got three replies or something out of it. Topics about HF or the Lego Movie get a lot more mileage, and Bionicle is like three times that amount. :shrugs: So that's not going to work...)

To be fair, your topic asked just three specific questions. Once those questions were answered, there wasn't much room for further discussion. I think a general Ninjago topic would get a lot more traffic.

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#50 Offline ~ShadowBolt~

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Posted Dec 11 2013 - 05:16 PM

I'm not an expert on maintaining forums nor have I been active because I have other things to do in my life and being over the age of 18 means I'd rather be on other forums that deals with other subject matter than this one.  But this site has always been oriented on discussing Bionicle among preteens and young teenagers with older members working on the framework and providing support to keep the site running.

 

The pool for Bionicle fans is never getting any bigger but Lego has many other lines ongoing and there are several other communities out there devoted to Lego but they're more adult based.  All BZP has to do is find a way to get younger kids who are into the more popular brands here.  So that means a complete reorganization of the forums, changing the ranking system of members ( you could even keep the old Bionicle system for older members if thats even possible), changing the domain name, updating the home page of the site, redoing the focus of news articles.  Its doable, and its been done before.  All that needs to happen is for Admins and senior moderators who know what they're doing to step up and get it done even though there will be many upset members.

 

Also, making post count count in off-topic does wonders for activity on a forum.  I've been on other incredibly popular forums and they had lots of activity in their specific sections of the forum but one of the largest draws was their respective off-topic/general discussion forums which gets people to post and get to know each other outside of specific conversations.  


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#51 Offline Aanchir: Rachira of Time

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Posted Dec 11 2013 - 05:39 PM

Also, making post count count in off-topic does wonders for activity on a forum.  I've been on other incredibly popular forums and they had lots of activity in their specific sections of the forum but one of the largest draws was their respective off-topic/general discussion forums which gets people to post and get to know each other outside of specific conversations.


The idea that post counts counting/not counting would make a difference is somewhat alien to me, since honestly I've never cared a whole lot about my post count. I don't think of it as an accomplishment or something to strive for. I post because there are discussions I want to contribute to, regardless of whether there's any record of how many posts I've made.

I recognize that some people DO care more about this kind of thing... I frequently see people make a note in their posts when they hit some kind of self-imposed milestone. But I don't know how much it will influence people joining and contributing to the site. Worrying about post count seems like the kind of thing you do when you've already made a commitment to be an active user of the site, not something that encourages you to join and participate in the first place.

And I especially can't see anything related to off-topic dicussion encouraging people to join, because there are hundreds of more specialized forums or generalized social networks for that kind of discussion. Getting more active users here means offering something here that users can't get in the same capacity on other sites. Encouraging off-topic discussion could help deepen people's connections once they're here and thereby encouraging them to stay, but I can't see it encouraging people to join in the first place.

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#52 Offline Dragonstar7

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Posted Dec 11 2013 - 07:21 PM

Why exactly would post count matter? It's not like we would lose members just because they don't get one single post to their post count for posting in the COT forum. Sure, people might want to discuss other stuff, they're free to do so, but making posts count there won't make a difference.


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#53 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Dec 11 2013 - 07:44 PM

I really have never understood why they don't count. I mean a post in one place theoretically takes a similar amount of effort as a post anywhere else. So why bother sorting through what counts or doesn't? I've heard the "so there's less spam" excuse which is complete garbage because we don't want any spam. I suppose there's still the "Lego themed" thing, but that doesn't sound quite right either. 

 

And we still have almost no polls being made. But we have the blogs, which I haven't seen on any forums I've been to, so there's that. 

 

We also have those ​enormously controversial flame wars that come about every so often. Which, if I wasn't a member of the site already, would probably run and never come back if that was the first thing I saw. Luckily those seem to be at a minimum lately. Plus anyone with a search engine searching for BZPower may come upon some very unfavorable depictions of some members by some of our members. Also not terribly inviting. Plus that's not going to create an air of acceptance or whatever. 

 

Now I'm aware that a lot of these aren't exactly under the staff's control, but I think they should be brought up.


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#54 Offline Aanchir: Rachira of Time

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Posted Dec 11 2013 - 08:22 PM

I really have never understood why they don't count. I mean a post in one place theoretically takes a similar amount of effort as a post anywhere else. So why bother sorting through what counts or doesn't? I've heard the "so there's less spam" excuse which is complete garbage because we don't want any spam. I suppose there's still the "Lego themed" thing, but that doesn't sound quite right either.

Oh believe me, I don't think that rule makes complete sense either. I wouldn't mind one bit if it were changed. I just don't think it would make any substantial difference in the level of activity here, because I don't think anyone chooses NOT to post there just because it doesn't add to their post count. If people have things to discuss in that forum they'll do so anyway.

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#55 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Dec 11 2013 - 08:36 PM

 

I really have never understood why they don't count. I mean a post in one place theoretically takes a similar amount of effort as a post anywhere else. So why bother sorting through what counts or doesn't? I've heard the "so there's less spam" excuse which is complete garbage because we don't want any spam. I suppose there's still the "Lego themed" thing, but that doesn't sound quite right either.

Oh believe me, I don't think that rule makes complete sense either. I wouldn't mind one bit if it were changed. I just don't think it would make any substantial difference in the level of activity here, because I don't think anyone chooses NOT to post there just because it doesn't add to their post count. If people have things to discuss in that forum they'll do so anyway.

 

Than it appears we are in agreement.


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#56 Offline ~ShadowBolt~

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Posted Dec 11 2013 - 10:44 PM

I'm not saying that post count is the ultimate decider, but the forum does need to do more to get the off-topic discussions up and going.  Having the site effectively tell you that it is not going to reward you for getting involved in a section is only going to discourage members from using it.  

 

And forums that do have more active general discussions tend to do better from my experience.  I've joined several sites and gotten involved simply because I liked the environment in general and I branched out to the site-specific categories that brought me to the site in the first place.


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#57 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Dec 11 2013 - 10:56 PM

I'm not saying that post count is the ultimate decider, but the forum does need to do more to get the off-topic discussions up and going.  Having the site effectively tell you that it is not going to reward you for getting involved in a section is only going to discourage members from using it.  

 

And forums that do have more active general discussions tend to do better from my experience.  I've joined several sites and gotten involved simply because I liked the environment in general and I branched out to the site-specific categories that brought me to the site in the first place.

 

That's a valid point, but I think it's going to take a bit more than just adding post count to accomplish that. What I think we really need is a bigger active userbase, than, theoretically, it should be easier to move from there. But that obviously isn't the easiest thing to accomplish.


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#58 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Dec 12 2013 - 08:01 AM

The reasoning for the 'COT posts don't count' rule is that this is a Bionicle/Lego forum, so all posts should relate to those things. Any that relate to other subjects shouldn't be included in members' post counts because they're irrelevant to this.

 

And let's face it, your post count does affect how you're perceived here. The more posts you have, the more involved you appear to be. As such, I don't want a member looking like a pillar of the Bionicle/Lego community when the majority of his or her x thousand posts are actually in the Pokemon/My Little Pony/Corrupt-a-wish topics.


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#59 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Dec 12 2013 - 09:31 AM

The reasoning for the 'COT posts don't count' rule is that this is a Bionicle/Lego forum, so all posts should relate to those things. Any that relate to other subjects shouldn't be included in members' post counts because they're irrelevant to this.
 
And let's face it, your post count does affect how you're perceived here. The more posts you have, the more involved you appear to be. As such, I don't want a member looking like a pillar of the Bionicle/Lego community when the majority of his or her x thousand posts are actually in the Pokemon/My Little Pony/Corrupt-a-wish topics.


But that's not how it works either. You want to play a Bionicle RPG? No post count. You want to answer questions for confused members? No posts for you. And during the voting booth days posts in there didn't count either.

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#60 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Dec 12 2013 - 10:27 AM

 

The reasoning for the 'COT posts don't count' rule is that this is a Bionicle/Lego forum, so all posts should relate to those things. Any that relate to other subjects shouldn't be included in members' post counts because they're irrelevant to this.
 
And let's face it, your post count does affect how you're perceived here. The more posts you have, the more involved you appear to be. As such, I don't want a member looking like a pillar of the Bionicle/Lego community when the majority of his or her x thousand posts are actually in the Pokemon/My Little Pony/Corrupt-a-wish topics.


But that's not how it works either. You want to play a Bionicle RPG? No post count. You want to answer questions for confused members? No posts for you. And during the voting booth days posts in there didn't count either.

 

 

Q&A isn't Lego/Bionicle related.

 

I wasn't aware of Bionicle RPG posts not counting. If they don't, I'd say it's because RPGs consist of nearly all fan-made content, unlike games or fan fiction which deal with more official content (though I admit this reasoning isn't as strong as the one for COT).

 

I don't know why posts in the voting booth wouldn't count as long as the topics were about Lego/Bionicle. There weren't all that many of them so it wouldn't make much difference anyway.

 

A staff member's input might help here.


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#61 Offline Gatanui

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Posted Dec 12 2013 - 10:50 AM

As far as I know, posts in the Voting Booth didn't count because most tend to be simple yes/no replies. As for RPGs, posts do count there, but don't in the Games & Trivia forum so people won't just play them to raise their post count and clutter the game topics.

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#62 Offline fishers64

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Posted Dec 12 2013 - 11:56 AM

Bionicle RPG posts count. How do you think the people who got 10k in that short time did it? :P

 

I don't care much either way - I hardly look at post counts anyway, rather the members that I see here the most often. :shrugs: 


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#63 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Dec 12 2013 - 12:11 PM

Oh, I thought they didn't. My mistake.


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#64 Offline -Windrider-

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Posted Dec 19 2013 - 11:14 PM

It seems to me that some of the suggestions made - such as the one regarding posts counting - are based on a "new BZP" sort of logic. In other words, "Since BZPower is less active these days, [x] would now be feasible." This has certainly led to improvements and an overall streamlining of the BZP experience. But what happens if our activity drastically increases? Will we need to revert certain policies? I'm wondering if it would be better to use a "future BZP" sort of logic.

 

What are your thoughts?


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#65 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Dec 19 2013 - 11:28 PM

It seems to me that some of the suggestions made - such as the one regarding posts counting - are based on a "new BZP" sort of logic. In other words, "Since BZPower is less active these days, [x] would now be feasible." This has certainly led to improvements and an overall streamlining of the BZP experience. But what happens if our activity drastically increases? Will we need to revert certain policies? I'm wondering if it would be better to use a "future BZP" sort of logic.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Well, that's an interesting thought... But we essentially have to think that way to get anywhere. We have to make changes to get people, than we have to make changes to accommodate the theoretical wave of new members. Otherwise we can't get anywhere. Because what's being done now isn't working the way we want it to, or else this topic wouldn't be a thing.  A forum with our user base has to work differently than a forum with TFW's user base. That's just how it works.


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#66 Offline Kit

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Posted Dec 20 2013 - 11:44 PM

Well, if more members and activity is the desire, then the site'll need to branch out quite a bit. I mean, while I did enjoy Bionicle a fair bit before it ended, it is over.  There's no new media (official media), no new stories (official stories), no new sets, no new anything for the line anymore. There won't be new fans of the series because the series doesn't have any strength outside of the, relatively, small fan sites that still exist (and I didn't become interested in it in 2001 because I read a topic on a forum that mentioned it... I saw an ad, got a set, then searched for more information and places to talk about it... since there was this whole story thing and Gali's name was not, in fact, "Tom"). And those who were fans will, in many cases, drift away and become uninterested (Like, I don't really post here all too much anymore... just on slow days where I'm waiting on RP's elsewhere and my friends are asleep)... and since Bionicle's not marketed or sold anywhere, that means no new fans will come to replace those who leave... which leads to the community getting smaller and smaller. 

 

Honestly, I really do like Ray's idea. It would be pretty awesome for a place to exist that focused on the stories of the Lego lines, or on Lego lines that have actually accompanying stories. As, I honestly can't think of a place like that at the moment. 

 

It'd also promote creating stories... which has really come down in terms of activity as of... well, not late, but after Bionicle ended. 


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#67 Offline sherman441

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Posted Dec 21 2013 - 09:47 PM

Honestly, I haven't been around that much recently so it comes as a complete surprise to me that BZ is having a discussion about a lack of members. I remember when it used to be so busy that you couldn't get onto the server as a result.

 

I agree with what some other people have said, BZP needs to branch out. Bionicle is long gone (RIP) and as the line was discontinued almost four years ago I think that the site doesn't have much choice.

 

Perhaps a compromise can be reached with the COT topics, i.e., posts only accumulate in the official topics or you need two posts to get one (or something similar).

 

Just my two cents but it would be sad to see this place shut down.


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#68 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Dec 22 2013 - 06:44 AM

Perhaps a compromise can be reached with the COT topics, i.e., posts only accumulate in the official topics or you need two posts to get one (or something similar).

 

Nearly all the COT topics are official ones and many of the forum's overall posts are made in them. 'Two to get one' is still making posts there count.

 

Just my two cents but it would be sad to see this place shut down.

 

Almost every forum has seen a new post in just the last 24 hours. Does that sound like a place about to shut down?


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#69 Offline -Windrider-

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Posted Dec 22 2013 - 05:13 PM

Well, that's an interesting thought... But we essentially have to think that way to get anywhere. We have to make changes to get people, than we have to make changes to accommodate the theoretical wave of new members.

 

 

I partially agree - but I think you're confounding two goals. Is making changes to BZPower policy truly going to attract new members? What about BZP's early years, when we saw enormous growth despite what was a more restrictive structure?

 

Furthermore, are the proposed accommodations for the new wave going to wind up being deleterious? It would be best to avoid sculpting an alternating cycle of restrictive and relaxed policies.

 

(I might be a bit guilty of being devil's advocate here - I'm all for a more relaxed BZPower even in more active conditions.)


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#70 Offline Lyichir

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Posted Dec 22 2013 - 06:16 PM

In general, while plenty of arguments can be made for and against making posts count in one forum or another, I doubt those sorts of changes will have any effect on the userbase. Most people don't join sites for a little number next to their name. They join to participate in the community. The best thing BZPower can do to gain new members, therefore, is to engage the community through contests, exclusive news, and other forum events. And I think they're doing admirably at that, all things considered. I'm extremely pleased with the new policy of promoting dynamic and thought-provoking discussion topics on the front page, which I think will hopefully help get viewers who haven't yet made an account on the site to do so and share their perspective.
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#71 Offline Gatanui

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Posted Dec 23 2013 - 05:17 PM

One of BZPower's strengths that it should promote more heavily is the fact that we bring LEGO-related news every day, as perhaps one of the only sets in the entire web. BZPower should try to become one of the top search results when searching for "LEGO news".

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#72 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Dec 27 2013 - 01:10 AM

I think that it's worth noting that there are currently almost twice as many guests online than logged in members.

so why are they visiting and not joining? the site is obviously attracting SOME form of attention, but we need to find out how to get them to join.

 

Edit: I'm sorry, I was test posting from my 360 and missed some mistakes.


Edited by ~Shockwave~, Dec 29 2013 - 07:09 PM.

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#73 Offline Pranciblad

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Posted Dec 29 2013 - 06:53 PM

I think that it's worth noting that there are currently almost twice as many guests online than ligged in members.
so why are they visiting and not joining? the site is obviously tracking SOME form of attention, but we need to find out how to get them to join.


Well, you've convinced one lurker to join now. Though to be honest, I was thinking of joining sooner or later.

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#74 Offline XONAR

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Posted Dec 29 2013 - 07:01 PM

I think that it's worth noting that there are currently almost twice as many guests online than ligged in members.

so why are they visiting and not joining? the site is obviously tracking SOME form of attention, but we need to find out how to get them to join.

 

This is a very good point. There's lurkers on all sites, and to be honest, most of the time they don't join because they're just here to get whatever they need or they were referred to this site by Google. I think all new members should be required to specify how they found this site, and this will give the staff insight into where they are mostly getting members from and they can use this information to put their efforts towards attracting new members from this location. 

 

It also wouldn't hurt to offer incentives such as free PMship for all new members once in a while.


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#75 Offline fishers64

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Posted Dec 29 2013 - 07:11 PM

 

I think that it's worth noting that there are currently almost twice as many guests online than ligged in members.

so why are they visiting and not joining? the site is obviously tracking SOME form of attention, but we need to find out how to get them to join.

 

This is a very good point. There's lurkers on all sites, and to be honest, most of the time they don't join because they're just here to get whatever they need or they were referred to this site by Google. I think all new members should be required to specify how they found this site, and this will give the staff insight into where they are mostly getting members from and they can use this information to put their efforts towards attracting new members from this location. 

 

It also wouldn't hurt to offer incentives such as free PMship for all new members once in a while.

 

I think that was the idea behind the member survey...

 

And this site has to get it's money from somewhere. And that's not fair to all the old members who have been around for years.


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#76 Offline XONAR

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Posted Dec 29 2013 - 07:21 PM

 

 

I think that it's worth noting that there are currently almost twice as many guests online than ligged in members.

so why are they visiting and not joining? the site is obviously tracking SOME form of attention, but we need to find out how to get them to join.

 

This is a very good point. There's lurkers on all sites, and to be honest, most of the time they don't join because they're just here to get whatever they need or they were referred to this site by Google. I think all new members should be required to specify how they found this site, and this will give the staff insight into where they are mostly getting members from and they can use this information to put their efforts towards attracting new members from this location. 

 

It also wouldn't hurt to offer incentives such as free PMship for all new members once in a while.

 

I think that was the idea behind the member survey...

 

And this site has to get it's money from somewhere. And that's not fair to all the old members who have been around for years.

 

 

I know that's the idea of the member survey, but what I'm saying is that they should require members to answer that one question at signup. 

 

Free PMship is just one of many things they could offer to new members in a limited promotion run. 


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#77 Offline fishers64

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Posted Dec 29 2013 - 07:28 PM

 

 

 

I think that it's worth noting that there are currently almost twice as many guests online than ligged in members.

so why are they visiting and not joining? the site is obviously tracking SOME form of attention, but we need to find out how to get them to join.

 

This is a very good point. There's lurkers on all sites, and to be honest, most of the time they don't join because they're just here to get whatever they need or they were referred to this site by Google. I think all new members should be required to specify how they found this site, and this will give the staff insight into where they are mostly getting members from and they can use this information to put their efforts towards attracting new members from this location. 

 

It also wouldn't hurt to offer incentives such as free PMship for all new members once in a while.

 

I think that was the idea behind the member survey...

 

And this site has to get it's money from somewhere. And that's not fair to all the old members who have been around for years.

 

 

I know that's the idea of the member survey, but what I'm saying is that they should require members to answer that one question at signup. 

 

Free PMship is just one of many things they could offer to new members in a limited promotion run. 

 

Good idea. :)

 

I think that would work in a contest to attract new members or something, but they shouldn't hand it out like candy. 


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#78 Offline Adventurer

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Posted Dec 30 2013 - 03:06 AM

I haven't read the topic in it's entirety but a quick thought  - the way I see it there's two main kind of paths that could be taken to this issue. The first is to focus on retaining the core userbase (Bionicle fans) and have it as a place for the community to discuss the current happenings of LEGO, fan arts (storys, creatons, software projects etc.. ) and to discuss the old days. This would lead to a slow decline in the userbase from where it is - but this is a known site so I'm sure new people would show up here and there and possibly the site could eventually develop a new community with a stronge interest in the new Lego lines naturally.

 

Altnernatively, the site could actively branch out to attract those who wish only to discuss the new lines. On one hand this could be good as since this is already an established website and community it would seem like a good place for discussion to newcomers. However, due to the Bionicle herigate, that could actually "scare off" some newcomers who don't know what Bionicle is and may feel out of place or intimidated by the older parts of the community. As a result they may prefer to discuss the newer lines on a site specific to those newer lines. Not an issue that would reaslitically cause any problems I don't think but forcing such an expansion that way could be difficult to some extent since this is still a Bionicle themed site. Broadening the foundation of the site to be more general and long term could work and just keeping the core Bionicle things (Hapori Tohu as the mascot/logo etc...) and then have the actual content forums less Bionicle related and more equally spread across the newer franchises encouraging new discussion in new areas for those lines.  For example on inspection I don't see any HF specfic creative outlet forums - perhaps by introducing some creative HF (or other Lego line) subforums or contests, people would naturally fill that void. I mean an empty forum or contest wouldn't stay empty for long people would come in and add something whether they're new fans who've stumbled across it or old fans willing to have a play around and with that discussion and community would expand and evolve I believe. That's just one specific example, but I think that idea in general could perhaps work.

 

Just random second last day of year musings. :P


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#79 Offline Sordin

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Posted Dec 30 2013 - 07:14 AM

Personally I think that expanding into other area's of lego will bring in new members certainly but it seems like unneeded compromise, I found this sight when I was looking for a still active forum to discuss bionicle and the fact I could find one with this many active and contributing members really made me think about the sticking power of the bionicle franchise, I believe that if we need to get more people active it should we through an effort to find or reclaim fans of bionicle to generate meaningful content and discussion rather than attempting to bring in other fanbases merely to watch numbers go up. 


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#80 Offline ~ShadowBolt~

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Posted Dec 30 2013 - 02:53 PM

What I personally would like to see is the site change domain names to something of the effect of "LegoPower" or something and compete with other generic Lego fan sites.  Obviously, this place was always geared to the 13 and under crowd, and that wouldn't need to change.  Basically, the BZPower section would simply become a subforum and we would have other small subforums for the big Lego lines.  You could even keep some of the old BZP skins for th eolder members and have several Bionicle images and graphics spread throughout the entire site as an "inside joke" to appease the older members.  The blogs would remain the same also.

 

But I would like to see an emphasis on sparking growth in the off topic forums.  There should be discussion (age appropriate of course) of whatever is going on in the world.  We have members from all around the world so there is a great opportunity to discuss current events as they happen (music, technology, pop culture, hobbies, news, etc).  That would simply allow for people on this board to connect on a level that they hadn't before.  Obviously this site prospered with the COT forum as a small bonus to all the Bionicle discussion, but I think that would get more activity on this site.

 

But most importantly, the focus has to be on changing this board into a generic Lego forum that is friendly to the pre-teen crowd.  I'm in college right now and I obviously wouldn't gain much from a site like that.  However, I do appreciate all the good times I had on the old BZP and BS01 while the two websites were at their respective peaks.  I would like to see the site take the initiative to make that happen again rather than sit around and die slowly because that is what is going to happen.  I've looked around this forum and honestly, I can only find around 4-5 topics to post in each day (if I really was trying to post and get active again), and that's honestly not a very positive sign for this forum.  It's far from dead, but unless something gets done by the staff, it's not going to last much longer than another 18-24 months before the place becomes devoid of activity.   


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