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Why Should Lego Bring Bionicle Back?

Lego Bring Bionicle Back Bionicle interview thoughts

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137 replies to this topic

#81 Offline Peach 00

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Posted Nov 06 2011 - 10:20 AM

It already has a solid fan base, and after HF runs out of steam, the builds will be fresh and innovative. There will be a surge of consumption just from previous Bionicle fans, along with HF fans. And hopefully, the reborn Bionicle will be better than ever, drawing in more fans.Additionally, the story line is at a point that allows a fresh start, like on Mata Nui. Whole lot of mystery, unknown, but with characters we know and love (with new ones too). The possibilities are immense, with the characters and the settings and the plot. Also, Lego has BZP as a resource for advice on rebooting Bionicle.Posted Image

Please allow me to correct you.There will not be a surge of consumption, because unless HF ends in the next three years, everyone will already have moved on for the sake of being busy with other things if not simply growing up.-Dovydas

As they grow up, they get together and have kids. Both generations could keep interest in Bionicle strong.

Not necessarily. If they want to introduce their kids to Bionicle, they can, but there's a tiny chance that they'll even have their Bionicles from when they were kids. And, Dovydas has a point - nobody has the time for Lego sets as they grow up. College gets in the way, jobs, careers - not a lot of people have the time to remember their Bionicle sets from when they were kids, even if it was a large childhood memory.And, besides, Hero Factory might last five to ten years, at least as long as Bionicle. Or maybe less, but for the meantime, we might as well enjoy it. If Lego gets rid of HF, they might not bring in another successor and bring in a completely different story with different sets that aren't anything like HF or Bionicle. So, we might as well enjoy something similar to Bionicle while we can. =/

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On the day the wall came down / They threw the locks onto the ground
And with glasses high / We raised a cry / For freedom had arrived
 
On the day the wall came down / The ship of fools had finally run aground
Promises lit up the night / Like paper doves in flight
 
I dreamed you had left my side / No warmth, not even pride remained
And even though you needed me / It was clear that I could not do a thing for you
 
Now life devalues day by day / As friends and neighbors turn away
And there's a change that even with regret / Cannot be undone
 
Now frontiers shift like desert sands / While nations wash their bloodied hands
Of loyalty, of history / In shades of grey
 
I woke to the sound of drums / The music played, the morning sun streamed in
I turned and I looked at you / And all but the bitter residues slipped away
 
slipped away...
 




#82 Offline electrodude

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Posted Nov 06 2011 - 02:15 PM

My answer:"Why? You shouldn't bring it back. Ten years is long enough to exhaust every story possibility."

Exactly.

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#83 Offline Willy Brandt

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Posted Nov 07 2011 - 09:14 AM

It already has a solid fan base, and after HF runs out of steam, the builds will be fresh and innovative. There will be a surge of consumption just from previous Bionicle fans, along with HF fans. And hopefully, the reborn Bionicle will be better than ever, drawing in more fans.Additionally, the story line is at a point that allows a fresh start, like on Mata Nui. Whole lot of mystery, unknown, but with characters we know and love (with new ones too). The possibilities are immense, with the characters and the settings and the plot. Also, Lego has BZP as a resource for advice on rebooting Bionicle.Posted Image

Please allow me to correct you.There will not be a surge of consumption, because unless HF ends in the next three years, everyone will already have moved on for the sake of being busy with other things if not simply growing up.-Dovydas

As they grow up, they get together and have kids. Both generations could keep interest in Bionicle strong.

"Hey, kids, look at this. It doesn't matter that it's an outdated, uncool toy nowadays that nobody has or nobody wants anyway when they all have the coolest toy ever, Breez 15.0, I order you to play with it, because, well, it's better. Why? Well, it's really good, you know, it's got this really interesting story..."... and then we realize that we're encountering the same problem that ended Bionicle.-Dovydas

Edited by Dovydas the Nerevarine, Nov 07 2011 - 09:14 AM.

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#84 Offline Alyska

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Posted Nov 08 2011 - 06:13 AM

Hero factory's story may be more flexible, but I feel that Bionicle's was stronger in terms of the premise and style.I see the problems that led to Bionicle's end as not being so much in the story as in the way it was told and marketed. Books, wonderful things as they are, are not always an effective marketing tool. In order to see that part of the story, you had to spend extra money on the books, and not many people would do that unless they were already somewhat engaged with the story. A similar situation happens with video games and DVDs. True, there were web serials, but these weren't on the main site and it would take some searching to find them.Hero Factory has the right idea in making a TV series, but the story and characters are just far too formulaic and predictable to be truly entertaining. I know I can't speak for the target demographic, but the fact that HF doesn't seem to have spawned any fansites of its own (like so many other kids' shows these days) is an indication that it sacrifices substance for style. The sets are great, and most of the ten year old boys I know love them, but I only ever hear them discussing the sets, not the story, just as they did with Bionicle.Perhaps I'm being too harsh on Hero Factory... Basically, my opinion on both it and Bionicle is that they have a lot of potential that they fail to take advantage of.
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#85 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Nov 08 2011 - 08:01 AM

Hero factory's story may be more flexible, but I feel that Bionicle's was stronger in terms of the premise and style.I see the problems that led to Bionicle's end as not being so much in the story as in the way it was told and marketed. Books, wonderful things as they are, are not always an effective marketing tool. In order to see that part of the story, you had to spend extra money on the books, and not many people would do that unless they were already somewhat engaged with the story. A similar situation happens with video games and DVDs. True, there were web serials, but these weren't on the main site and it would take some searching to find them.Hero Factory has the right idea in making a TV series, but the story and characters are just far too formulaic and predictable to be truly entertaining. I know I can't speak for the target demographic, but the fact that HF doesn't seem to have spawned any fansites of its own (like so many other kids' shows these days) is an indication that it sacrifices substance for style. The sets are great, and most of the ten year old boys I know love them, but I only ever hear them discussing the sets, not the story, just as they did with Bionicle.Perhaps I'm being too harsh on Hero Factory... Basically, my opinion on both it and Bionicle is that they have a lot of potential that they fail to take advantage of.

I can sort of agree to that. Admittedly BIONICLE might have been more successful if it could have had a TV series at its disposal from the very beginning. Then again, it's hard to say-- just after BIONICLE's release came Galidor, which had much poorer sets but a much more sophisticated story and TV series than Hero Factory. And it was a huge flop, at least here in the U.S.The thing I'm sort of skeptical about isn't whether BIONICLE could have been handled better (I'm sure it could have if TLG weren't taking such a gamble with the theme in the first place and could give it a good strong opening like they have with Ninjago), but rather whether it could be brought back. Starting where it left off or later wouldn't work too well IMO since there are so many complex story details that need to be understood, like the various species currently living on Spherus Magna. Starting in a plotline relatively unconnected with the main plot would be giving up a lot of the uniqueness that BIONICLE's continuing and interwoven story gave it. And rebooting the theme entirely and starting from scratch on Mata Nui would be difficult, since there would come a time when the story would have to be disloyal to its traditions or it would end up just retelling story that's already known. A lot of the suspense could be gone.I do agree that Hero Factory isn't completely living up to its potential, and I do hope it does so very soon. At the same time, I think its episodic story with very little expansion on the stories of previous waves is still an asset, as it can arguably make the story more sophisticated at any point to bring in new fans, rather than becoming reliant on an existing fanbase. Of course, one wonders if TLG would have an interest in this, considering that Ninjago currently is the theme trying to match BIONICLE's complexity, and TLG might want to keep the two themes distinct from one another in their storytelling style.

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#86 Offline The True Zedd of BZPower

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Posted Nov 08 2011 - 11:28 AM

Yea, I highly doubt that.If Bionicle was still popular and selling well then it would have not been canceled.The story was complex to a degree, but how many fans actually followed it outside of the comics?

Many followed the story outside of the comics through web serials, books and movies. It was cancelled because the story was too deep and it would have been hard for new fans to join in, say, 2008, and easily figure out the story. That's why it was cancelled, because it wasn't gaining many new fans. The story was kept alive pretty much because Greg F wanted to keep it alive for all the fans who had followed the story up until that point.

it was not gaining new fans because it simply was not popular.Also, hardly anybody followed the story outside the comics. after 2007, Bioniclestory.com was not even mentioned on the main site, movie sales were average at best, and books sales dropped by who knows how many every year. The story has nothing to do with any of this.

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#87 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Nov 08 2011 - 01:29 PM

Yea, I highly doubt that.If Bionicle was still popular and selling well then it would have not been canceled.The story was complex to a degree, but how many fans actually followed it outside of the comics?

Many followed the story outside of the comics through web serials, books and movies. It was cancelled because the story was too deep and it would have been hard for new fans to join in, say, 2008, and easily figure out the story. That's why it was cancelled, because it wasn't gaining many new fans. The story was kept alive pretty much because Greg F wanted to keep it alive for all the fans who had followed the story up until that point.

it was not gaining new fans because it simply was not popular.Also, hardly anybody followed the story outside the comics. after 2007, Bioniclestory.com was not even mentioned on the main site, movie sales were average at best, and books sales dropped by who knows how many every year. The story has nothing to do with any of this.

Of course. That means this article makes perfect sense. I don't speak Danish, but with Google translate I created a pretty good approximation of one particular paragraph:

The reason why they have decided to phase out Bionicle includes that the story by now had evolved, making it harder for new users to get into.


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#88 Offline Lyichir

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Posted Nov 08 2011 - 01:30 PM

Yea, I highly doubt that.If Bionicle was still popular and selling well then it would have not been canceled.The story was complex to a degree, but how many fans actually followed it outside of the comics?

Many followed the story outside of the comics through web serials, books and movies. It was cancelled because the story was too deep and it would have been hard for new fans to join in, say, 2008, and easily figure out the story. That's why it was cancelled, because it wasn't gaining many new fans. The story was kept alive pretty much because Greg F wanted to keep it alive for all the fans who had followed the story up until that point.

it was not gaining new fans because it simply was not popular.Also, hardly anybody followed the story outside the comics. after 2007, Bioniclestory.com was not even mentioned on the main site, movie sales were average at best, and books sales dropped by who knows how many every year. The story has nothing to do with any of this.

On the contrary, it was not popular because very little of it made any sense without understanding the story. And the story didn't make sense except after having read previous story. Hardly anybody followed the story outside the comics? Perhaps, but if so only because it was so much harder to follow. That would explain why both set sales and book sales continued to fall as time went on. If you don't follow the story, Bionicle is nothing more than a buildable action figure line, and Hero Factory is a lot better at that than Bionicle was.

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#89 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Nov 08 2011 - 03:31 PM

Yea, I highly doubt that.If Bionicle was still popular and selling well then it would have not been canceled.The story was complex to a degree, but how many fans actually followed it outside of the comics?

Many followed the story outside of the comics through web serials, books and movies. It was cancelled because the story was too deep and it would have been hard for new fans to join in, say, 2008, and easily figure out the story. That's why it was cancelled, because it wasn't gaining many new fans. The story was kept alive pretty much because Greg F wanted to keep it alive for all the fans who had followed the story up until that point.

it was not gaining new fans because it simply was not popular.Also, hardly anybody followed the story outside the comics. after 2007, Bioniclestory.com was not even mentioned on the main site, movie sales were average at best, and books sales dropped by who knows how many every year. The story has nothing to do with any of this.

On the contrary, it was not popular because very little of it made any sense without understanding the story. And the story didn't make sense except after having read previous story. Hardly anybody followed the story outside the comics? Perhaps, but if so only because it was so much harder to follow. That would explain why both set sales and book sales continued to fall as time went on. If you don't follow the story, Bionicle is nothing more than a buildable action figure line, and Hero Factory is a lot better at that than Bionicle was.

Exactly my point. The reason that HF doesn't have a complicated story is because of Bionicle and it's complicated, compiled story. With HF, it almost seems like each year, you can join the fanbase and able to follow the story for that year with minimal knowledge about the other years.

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#90 Offline Shmid

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Posted Nov 08 2011 - 05:03 PM

"You really want me to answer that?" I say to the guy, "Okaay! :evilgrin:That line was your most successful ever, the last sets were TOTAL FAILURES, the populous HAS BEEN VIRTUALLY DEMANDING IT FOR A YEAR NAOW, it's the least you could do for getting rid of LU, the world is ending and this would make things a little better, and I'l hire Anonymous to kill your site if you don't. I'm also saying please."

Edited by Shmid, Nov 08 2011 - 05:04 PM.

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#91 Offline Alyska

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Posted Nov 08 2011 - 05:18 PM

I can sort of agree to that. Admittedly BIONICLE might have been more successful if it could have had a TV series at its disposal from the very beginning. Then again, it's hard to say-- just after BIONICLE's release came Galidor, which had much poorer sets but a much more sophisticated story and TV series than Hero Factory. And it was a huge flop, at least here in the U.S.The thing I'm sort of skeptical about isn't whether BIONICLE could have been handled better (I'm sure it could have if TLG weren't taking such a gamble with the theme in the first place and could give it a good strong opening like they have with Ninjago), but rather whether it could be brought back. Starting where it left off or later wouldn't work too well IMO since there are so many complex story details that need to be understood, like the various species currently living on Spherus Magna. Starting in a plotline relatively unconnected with the main plot would be giving up a lot of the uniqueness that BIONICLE's continuing and interwoven story gave it. And rebooting the theme entirely and starting from scratch on Mata Nui would be difficult, since there would come a time when the story would have to be disloyal to its traditions or it would end up just retelling story that's already known. A lot of the suspense could be gone.I do agree that Hero Factory isn't completely living up to its potential, and I do hope it does so very soon. At the same time, I think its episodic story with very little expansion on the stories of previous waves is still an asset, as it can arguably make the story more sophisticated at any point to bring in new fans, rather than becoming reliant on an existing fanbase. Of course, one wonders if TLG would have an interest in this, considering that Ninjago currently is the theme trying to match BIONICLE's complexity, and TLG might want to keep the two themes distinct from one another in their storytelling style.

I'd actually like to see a full reboot. Lego should basically find a good animation studio, hand them a copy of the story bible and style guide, and say "knock yourselves out". The concept artists should work closely with set designers, of course, but other than that, I think the main story should be out of Lego's hands. I got a bit sick of the story being bent over backwards just to fit new sets in, and we wound up with far too many characters. Maybe have some sort of plot device like the Adaptive Armour from the start, so you don't need to explain how our heroes fell into some radioactive goo (or equivalent) once a year. That way, you can sell multiple versions of the same characters in a year.I don't mind how similar/different the story is to the original, as long as the style is faithful, the story engaging, and it fixes up some of the flaws of the G1 Bionicle.

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#92 Offline fishers64

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Posted Nov 09 2011 - 07:45 AM

If TLG is trying to use the same style to tell Ninjago as they are to tell Bionicle, then I'm afraid the storytelling style wasn't the problem, at least in general. They might have needed a different storytelling style for Bionicle specifically, or a less cantankerous one, but they haven't abandoned that style completely, which seems to indicate to me that Lego doesn't think that storytelling medium or style is a problem. Now what works for Ninjago may not work for Bionicle; it may be that Ninjago is more relateable to kids than biomechanical creatures and giant robots. That may be a factor, instead of the story style.
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#93 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Nov 09 2011 - 08:54 AM

If TLG is trying to use the same style to tell Ninjago as they are to tell Bionicle, then I'm afraid the storytelling style wasn't the problem, at least in general. They might have needed a different storytelling style for Bionicle specifically, or a less cantankerous one, but they haven't abandoned that style completely, which seems to indicate to me that Lego doesn't think that storytelling medium or style is a problem.Now what works for Ninjago may not work for Bionicle; it may be that Ninjago is more relateable to kids than biomechanical creatures and giant robots. That may be a factor, instead of the story style.

Well, while Ninjago has a similar multimedia aspect to BIONICLE, and a continuing storyline, it should be noted that like Hero Factory it doesn't have as much of an expanding storyline as BIONICLE. So far, there's a rather small cast of main characters. There are a lot of more minor characters, like the skeletons, but in the books and TV episodes only the Skeleton Generals are really relevant (the four basic skeleton characters aren't even mentioned by name in any story media other than the official guide). I think there might be a similar situation with the Snakemen in the coming wave.Locations, too, don't seem like they're likely to be revisited too often. The species from the Book of Ninjago from the Ninjago teaser site earlier this year have for the most part remained irrelevant, and I think most of them were probably just described for laughs. And I doubt we'll see the skeleton vehicles again whatsoever. The theme's continuity seems to come chiefly from its main characters, and not from a wide range of complex species, locations, and historical details.Now, this is just my perception after one year of the theme. It could be that now that there's going to be a full TV series, more of the 2012 characters will have a shot at lasting relevance, which would undo my argument entirely. But I still think that Ninjago, like Hero Factory, has learned a bit from BIONICLE's mistakes (just as it has no doubt learned lessons from the aspects of BIONICLE that made that theme so successful). It's starting off much like BIONICLE 2001, but it doesn't look like it's going to go down the same path of an overarching saga, where the main objective in the first year isn't resolved for seven more.

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#94 Offline Alyska

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Posted Nov 09 2011 - 09:15 AM

Ninjago having a TV show is a huge step to set it apart from the way Bionicle did things, as is the more episodic story format (ie, that each year of story is independent from the last). So, I'd say that Lego is learning from its mistakes, but it seems to be happening at a fairly slow pace considering that so many other toy companies are way ahead of them (Hasbro has an entire TV channel now, for crying out loud!) Another thing that they need to realise is the potential to attract a broader audience. While we know that something like Bionicle can appeal to older fans, the only reason most of us oldies are here is that we liked it as kids, as opposed to new older fans (?) being brought in.
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#95 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Nov 09 2011 - 01:14 PM

Ninjago having a TV show is a huge step to set it apart from the way Bionicle did things, as is the more episodic story format (ie, that each year of story is independent from the last). So, I'd say that Lego is learning from its mistakes, but it seems to be happening at a fairly slow pace considering that so many other toy companies are way ahead of them (Hasbro has an entire TV channel now, for crying out loud!) Another thing that they need to realise is the potential to attract a broader audience. While we know that something like Bionicle can appeal to older fans, the only reason most of us oldies are here is that we liked it as kids, as opposed to new older fans (?) being brought in.

To be fair, LEGO started out behind other toy companies in that regard. Transformers and many other toy and action figure franchises had been somewhat story-based since the 80s, with cartoons promoting them. The story behind LEGO themes at those times was usually just a jumping point without much extra detail, explaining for instance a Space faction's function in the universe and who their allies and foes were. Characters were occasionally given names (usually varying region-by-region), but in general most things were left up to fans' imaginations, and there certainly weren't dedicated story media other than magazines, catalogs, and TV ads.LEGO's attempts to catch up in the mid- to late 90s are often in part blamed for the company losing sight of its core values and suffering economically until at least the mid-2000s. They attempted to branch out by creating lots of computer games, giving themes more complex stories with detailed characters, and (to all of our eventual satisfaction) creating "action figure" themes.Nowadays, LEGO is catching up about as much as I think they need to. Hasbro is a huge company with products covering a vast range, many of which properties they have bought from other toy companies over the years. LEGO is much more focused-- their core products today as always are strictly building toys, with other products mostly being a side venture. I don't think trying to compete with Hasbro in all respects would be healthy for the company.Meanwhile, the company is already appealing to a broader audience than they were a decade ago through things like Ultimate Collector Series Star Wars sets, the modular buildings and other advanced Direct-to-Consumer sets, and things like the LEGO Architecture theme that look at LEGO as an artistic medium rather than just a toy. Still, being a toy company, I don't think it would be economically viable for TLG to try marketing story themes to adults in particular. Believe me, I'm active on an AFOL forum, and the appreciation of Hero Factory there is somewhat strong even among people who were neither BIONICLE fans nor Hero Factory fans as children. The periphery demographic isn't going away.

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#96 Online ~The 1st Shadow~

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Posted Nov 09 2011 - 01:43 PM

I'd say: "Well, for one thing, it was a huge hit, and it was one of (if not the) best seller you ever made in my opinion. It got me into writing and so many other things, so, in a way, it helped make me who I am today. Growing up with an amazing story like that, and all the new sets that came out every year, it was all so great! While I enjoyed the end, I was actually furious to learn that you had ended your best creation ever. I don't know how or when you're gonna bring it back, but you'd better!" There. I've said all I had to say.LONG LIVE BIONICLE!! :biorules:Posted Image
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#97 Offline Lloyd: the White Wolf

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Posted Nov 09 2011 - 05:45 PM

I saw people comparing this to Ninjago, and I wanted to add my two cents. I think that Ninjago is trying to cash in on what made Bionicle popular, but they're also making the mistake of trying to rush it. Note that the Big Bad effectively won the first year. Impressive, yes. As earth-shattering as Makuta's win (and as it was likely intended to be)? No.As for the comments about a solid reboot of Bionicle, I honestly would kinda like to see that. It hadn't crossed my mind before, but considering hwo well it seems to have worked for other toylines that I shall not mention because this isn't the topic to do so...I think that Lego would be smart to give the story bible to a new team of writers and designers (probably out-of-house, like the original suggester said) and let them choose how they want to rewrite the story. Who knows, we might end up with something more like 2001, with more mystical aspects, or we could end up with the climax years, with more Makuta scheming and amazing Xanatos Gambits. One way or another, it'd be fresh, which is important. I think Bionicle fans follow the story for its questions that it raises and its revelations, especially concerning the worldbuilding. The progression of plot not quite as much. Creating a Bionicle reboot would provide a chance to raise old questions with new answers, or entirely new questions, and the winks at the old fanbase, I think, would be enough to keep us attached while inviting new kids to join....Perhaps we should make a new topic regarding a Bionicle reboot?:w:
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#98 Offline Alyska

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Posted Nov 09 2011 - 07:50 PM

^I made a reboot topic a while ago. I don't think it's died yet, so if you search back a few pages in GD you should find it.
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#99 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Nov 09 2011 - 08:02 PM

I saw people comparing this to Ninjago, and I wanted to add my two cents. I think that Ninjago is trying to cash in on what made Bionicle popular, but they're also making the mistake of trying to rush it. Note that the Big Bad effectively won the first year. Impressive, yes. As earth-shattering as Makuta's win (and as it was likely intended to be)? No.

He didn't really win; he just got away to fight another day. Makuta basically did the same thing, even though it was less obvious then and was really jarring to me when we later found out he had survived (even more so when we learned he had survived the fight with Takanuva-- really, I think that sort of vagueness bothered me a lot until Greg later explained that he planned his losses). And I don't think it was intended to be remotely as earth-shattering as Makuta's 2008 victory; it was more meant to be similar to the 2001 ending except without just confusing people when Garmadon shows up again later, unharmed.

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#100 Offline You just lost the game

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Posted Nov 09 2011 - 10:02 PM

My answer:You shouldn't. You expended its resources and you decided to let it die. No turning back.
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#101 Offline Saya Moonshadow

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Posted Nov 10 2011 - 11:36 PM

Nay. Bionicle was fun while it lasted, but all good things eventually come to an end, guys.
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#102 Offline Endless Sea (still alive)

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Posted Nov 20 2011 - 02:46 PM

Ooh, boy, massive flame bait here."Because despite all the haters and such, there's still so many fans out there who'd want to see it again. Sure, the line would have to go through some changes- make the story more accessable to new fans, certainly reboot it, don't try clone and cookie-cutter sets every year- but I think that with a bit of tweaking, and given a few years (Hero Factory's still going strong, and I'm sure there's other ideas for successors you guys have), I'm certain BIONICLE could come back stronger than ever before. Plus, the 2010 story sucked, and you guys owe us two movies. :P"See, all the flaws you guys are listing? They can be addressed. And for all you guys who say it had a good run, and should die in peace, well, unless you're being a jerkwad about it (in which case, go get sliced up in Destral for all I care), I'm perfectly willing to accept that, but BIONICLE has had such a big impact on my life that I personally would very much like to see it again, so let's agree to disagree. And for those who say the story ideas have been exhausted, go to the Libraries forum (both old and new) and prepare to be proven so very wrong.
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#103 Offline Lyichir

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Posted Nov 20 2011 - 06:29 PM

Ooh, boy, massive flame bait here."Because despite all the haters and such, there's still so many fans out there who'd want to see it again. Sure, the line would have to go through some changes- make the story more accessable to new fans, certainly reboot it, don't try clone and cookie-cutter sets every year- but I think that with a bit of tweaking, and given a few years (Hero Factory's still going strong, and I'm sure there's other ideas for successors you guys have), I'm certain BIONICLE could come back stronger than ever before. Plus, the 2010 story sucked, and you guys owe us two movies. :P"See, all the flaws you guys are listing? They can be addressed. And for all you guys who say it had a good run, and should die in peace, well, unless you're being a jerkwad about it (in which case, go get sliced up in Destral for all I care), I'm perfectly willing to accept that, but BIONICLE has had such a big impact on my life that I personally would very much like to see it again, so let's agree to disagree. And for those who say the story ideas have been exhausted, go to the Libraries forum (both old and new) and prepare to be proven so very wrong.

See, the issue I see with your idea isn't that it's not feasible. But I think those sort of changes would ruin what made BIONICLE great in the first place. I'd rather LEGO used what they learned from BIONICLE and make something new, than that they radically retool BIONICLE into something that no longer resembled what it once was. In fact, they tried retooling it several times, and yet it never reached the popularity it enjoyed in its prime. So they called it done and started fresh, and I feel that Hero Factory has far more potential than a revived BIONICLE ever would.

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#104 Offline Makuta_of_Oz

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Posted Nov 20 2011 - 06:53 PM

If Bionicle does come back, maybe it could be a small filler between larger lines?No I'm not talking about like Ben 10 because that's TOO short. I'm thinking something that could go just for 1 or 2 years while LEGO develops something much bigger.
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#105 Offline Endless Sea (still alive)

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Posted Nov 20 2011 - 09:30 PM

Ooh, boy, massive flame bait here."Because despite all the haters and such, there's still so many fans out there who'd want to see it again. Sure, the line would have to go through some changes- make the story more accessable to new fans, certainly reboot it, don't try clone and cookie-cutter sets every year- but I think that with a bit of tweaking, and given a few years (Hero Factory's still going strong, and I'm sure there's other ideas for successors you guys have), I'm certain BIONICLE could come back stronger than ever before. Plus, the 2010 story sucked, and you guys owe us two movies. :P"See, all the flaws you guys are listing? They can be addressed. And for all you guys who say it had a good run, and should die in peace, well, unless you're being a jerkwad about it (in which case, go get sliced up in Destral for all I care), I'm perfectly willing to accept that, but BIONICLE has had such a big impact on my life that I personally would very much like to see it again, so let's agree to disagree. And for those who say the story ideas have been exhausted, go to the Libraries forum (both old and new) and prepare to be proven so very wrong.

See, the issue I see with your idea isn't that it's not feasible. But I think those sort of changes would ruin what made BIONICLE great in the first place. I'd rather LEGO used what they learned from BIONICLE and make something new, than that they radically retool BIONICLE into something that no longer resembled what it once was. In fact, they tried retooling it several times, and yet it never reached the popularity it enjoyed in its prime. So they called it done and started fresh, and I feel that Hero Factory has far more potential than a revived BIONICLE ever would.

Now, when did I say "radically retool"? I only mentioned a few changes in presentation. Retell the story from the beginning, smooth out a few plotholes, tell each year in a way that someone popping up in the middle of things can understand what's going on, that kind of thing. And the variety in sets bit, I think that's perfectly acceptable. It's certainly better than buying what amounts to an action figure in pieces six times each year. The Barraki looked weird, sure, but at least they had more than a few pieces' difference between them. As for Hero Factory, it's cool and easy to follow, but if it does have as much potential as you claim, it isn't using it- the past three seasons have all amounted to "New villains! STOP THEM." BIONICLE had mystery, wars, exploration, politics, gods, anti-villains, anti-heroes, moral ambiguity, Teridax, Teridax, TERIDAX. Seriously, Mr. MoMN alone makes BIONICLE far more awesome to me than Hero Factory. The closest they had to someone like him was Von Nebula, and he was kinda wasted. He sits on his throne, scheming his generic schemes, and spouts some backstory that doesn't quite mesh with his motives, and then Team Stormer goes and knocks him flat on his totally-not-a-Hydraxon-face-mask. It was really kinda sad. Unless you mean toy potential, in which case your argument is pretty much invalid, since THEY'RE THE SAME THING.That's how I see it, anyways. Explain your reasoning a bit better, and who knows, you might convince me. Don't want to offend, just refute. :)

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#106 Offline dotcom

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Posted Nov 20 2011 - 11:41 PM

Hero Factory the same as BIONICLE in sets?Hahahaha, sure. Last year. The building system it's using now is so far removed from the usual as to be completely unrelated. Not really, but still)I still don't understand the hostility towards HF's story at this point. The story is simple and supposedly "New villains! STOP THEM."? What do you call the Mata Nui years, then, though? That was the guiding principle of the story for the first 3 years, and Teridax didn't become a true brilliant force of evil until TT. You can't compare the 10 years of story BIONICLE had to HF's 2, anyways.In any case, HF isn't using its 'potential' because it's a LEGO line. People seem to forget that there is no reason why HF should have a storyline more complicated than, say, Alien Conquest or Pharaoh's Quest or Atlantis. By comparison, HF has had a -lot- of story behind it. And it doesn't need it. People keep bringing up the same "But BIONICLE was awesome because of the deep storyline!" Yes, it was, and that deep storyline was what killed it. HF is being kept simple because at the end of the day, the story doesn't, or rather, shouldn't matter. Do you think the people who buy any System set will care about the stuff it has to do with the story? Maybe, but not in a way that is substantial. Because LEGO stories are silly and cliched by default. They are a toy company, seeking to sell toys. They stay in business and maintain their fanbase by making good sets, not with storylines and characters. And they decided to make HF follow the path of any other of their lines, and that's alright. The sets are good and that is all there is to it.And the thing being that if BIONICLE was brought back, it'd be in name only. The story? LEGO would most likely make it a point to leave it simple, and thus far from what people came to love in it. The sets? Most likely similar to whatever line came before it (And I doubt it's BIONICLE), thus ridding people of the style they came to expect from BIONICLE. And if that's the BIONICLE that would come back, I wouldn't want it.
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#107 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Nov 21 2011 - 08:01 AM

Something else to consider is that yes, BIONICLE was brilliant and epic. That doesn't mean that something without a rich, epic narrative can't be enjoyable, especially for kids within the target age range of BIONICLE and Hero Factory. I loved BIONICLE, but that doesn't mean that I can't love Hero Factory for its simpler, more lighthearted story. I often like to make the comparison between the Star Wars original trilogy and the Star Trek original series. One has a deep mythology and backstory, gradually revealing the answers to mysteries and introducing complex plot twists. The other has a campy and episodic storyline that's easier to jump into at any point. That doesn't mean that one is necessarily better than the other (although I know some Trekkies or Star Wars fans might disagree).
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#108 Offline fishers64

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Posted Nov 21 2011 - 09:53 PM

Something else to consider is that yes, BIONICLE was brilliant and epic. That doesn't mean that something without a rich, epic narrative can't be enjoyable, especially for kids within the target age range of BIONICLE and Hero Factory. I loved BIONICLE, but that doesn't mean that I can't love Hero Factory for its simpler, more lighthearted story. I often like to make the comparison between the Star Wars original trilogy and the Star Trek original series. One has a deep mythology and backstory, gradually revealing the answers to mysteries and introducing complex plot twists. The other has a campy and episodic storyline that's easier to jump into at any point. That doesn't mean that one is necessarily better than the other (although I know some Trekkies or Star Wars fans might disagree).

Yes, but Star Trek TOS was massively better than any of the Hero Factory episodes. They went a whole lot deeper than HF has. I could argue that Bionicle has gone deeper than both.But that is beside the point. The storytelling format of TOS fit the story they were telling. It worked. The storytelling format for HF fits it okay, but it is not the complete hand-fit-glove of the storytelling format TOS had. And even if they didn't change the storytelling format, they could do a whole lot better - the story is overly simplistic and a shadow to the sets and the tech advances Lego has put into the line.And they cannot get beyond the past - the story could become complex like Bionicle, and they are straining it and stunting it trying to hold it back. I get this every single time I watch a Hero Factory episode - sorrow and frustration for what could have been. Not to mention all the Bionicle plot elements that have been repeated in HF. The Enemy within was a la the Hordika venom. There are similarities between the Savage planet and Bionicle 2001.I think HF could go a whole lot further if they threw out the idea that even a hint of complexity must be avoided. They are so afraid of getting Bionicle that they are stunting the potential of that story.

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#109 Guest_TahuOmega_*

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Posted Dec 11 2011 - 12:47 AM

Cause, they realize it was a mistake to end it in the first place.
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#110 Offline Lyichir

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Posted Dec 11 2011 - 10:15 AM

Cause, they realize it was a mistake to end it in the first place.

You might have to back that kind of assertion up with facts, seeing as I haven't read a single thing suggesting that LEGO has suffered at all from ending BIONICLE.

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#111 Offline Tech Warrior

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Posted Dec 11 2011 - 12:09 PM

I don't particularly think that it's a good idea to bring Bionicle back. Hero Factory has already been in progress for over a year, and so many new things and builds have popped up, that it wouldn't be a good idea to go in reverse. Not only talking set-wise, but I'm sure that LEGO had good reason for ending Bionicle. It's not like they would just do it to do it. Where could the story have gone after the Glatorian? I mean Makuta had already been killed, so there's your happy ending. I feel that it had ended appropriately.So many people here are saying that they need to bring Bionicle back because people want it. I disagree. It's not at all that I don't like Bionicle, but rather the fact that it's already ended, and bringing it back would be an even bigger mistake than ending it. We all love Bionicle, but bringing it back is just plain dumb. LEGO had obviously ended it with good reason, and even if they did bring it back, what kind of story would take place? Nothing beats the original Bionicle. Missing something, is part of what makes it a great memory.
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#112 Offline Waffles

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Posted Dec 17 2011 - 02:40 PM

Because a small group of people who'twant it back.In other words, it shouldn't.

Edited by Waffles, Dec 18 2011 - 10:10 PM.

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#113 Offline Makuta_of_Oz

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Posted Dec 18 2011 - 06:57 AM

Because a small group of insignificant immature people who can't think straight want it back.In other words, it shouldn't.

Are you referring to anyone in particular???

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#114 Offline Celu

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Posted Dec 18 2011 - 07:31 AM

If you want my true honest opinion, I don't see them bringing back anytime soon.Only way I see them bringing it back is when Hero Factory starts to lose its touch. And really if they bring it back, I don't think it'll be the same, it'll be like HF, small story lines, which can be read separately, for each series of toys released. It won't have a huge story as the old Bionicle was.

Edited by Celu, Dec 18 2011 - 07:32 AM.

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#115 Offline The First Speaker

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Posted Dec 18 2011 - 08:06 AM

Lego will bring BIONICLE back when they think that it will be more profitable for them. When they see that the potential gains of BIONICLE are bigger than those of the existing buildable-action-figure theme, they will replace it with BIONICLE (or another theme). That's the spirit of capitalism, any move that a company does is motivated by the prosecution of economic benefits.
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#116 Offline Gatanui

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Posted Dec 18 2011 - 08:38 AM

Because a small group of [...] people [...] want it back. [insults removed]In other words, it shouldn't.

We know, we have a rule (in fact, the very first rule in the BZPower Rules & Guidelines topic) that tells you not to degrade or insult anybody, and while you haven´t mentioned any member by name, it´s obvious you are addressing a particular group of members. This is your only warning. We don´t tolerate calling somebody the way you did and saying about them what you said, even if you are just alluding to the members instead of saying who they are.This said, please edit your post. This also applies to everybody who quoted that post.~Gata. ;)

Edited by Gatanui, Dec 18 2011 - 08:42 AM.

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#117 Offline Kung Fu Pyro

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Posted Dec 20 2011 - 07:30 PM

Because it's the best line LEGO has ever cared to make. Case closed. PERIOD.
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#118 Offline Willy Brandt

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Posted Dec 22 2011 - 09:17 AM

Because it's the best line LEGO has ever cared to make. Case closed. PERIOD.

No it's not.Your opinion doesn't mean fact. You can't go along pretending that it does.-Dovydas

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#119 Offline Kung Fu Pyro

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Posted Dec 22 2011 - 04:08 PM

Because it's the best line LEGO has ever cared to make. Case closed. PERIOD.

No it's not. Your opinion doesn't mean fact. You can't go along pretending that it does. -Dovydas

This is a question that asks your opinion, not facts. I stated my opinion that it's the greatest line ever. The name of the topic is not 'What is the fact about LEGO bringing Bionicle back.' Tell me where I even remotely state that my answer is fact, and not opinion like the posts of everyone else in this topic.

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#120 Offline Gatanui

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Posted Dec 23 2011 - 08:18 AM

Because it's the best line LEGO has ever cared to make. Case closed. PERIOD.

No it's not. Your opinion doesn't mean fact. You can't go along pretending that it does. -Dovydas

This is a question that asks your opinion, not facts. I stated my opinion that it's the greatest line ever. The name of the topic is not 'What is the fact about LEGO bringing Bionicle back.' Tell me where I even remotely state that my answer is fact, and not opinion like the posts of everyone else in this topic.

Although I have no doubt it wasn´t your intention, the part Dovydas bolded does imply that BIONICLE being the best LEGO line is indeed a fact. ;)~Gata. ;)

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