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What Would You Like To See In A Fan Game?

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#81 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Oct 31 2011 - 08:41 PM

Dude, why is your post in HTML? O_o Objective-based is a little bit different than story mode; mostly because it's still two teams against each other. Let me give you a couple of examples because Battlefront and Republic Commando multiplayer don't do a good job of this: Team Fortress 2 - PayloadThe BLU team's objective is to push a bomb-cart to the enemy's base. To push it, at least one player has to stand next to it; the more players pushing it, the faster it goes. If nobody gets close to it for about 15 seconds, it starts to move backwards. The RED team's objective is to defend the cart; if the BLU team doesn't achieve their objective within a certain amount of time, the RED team wins. One more hiccup: whenever the BLU team pushes the cart to a checkpoint, it can't go back any farther than that checkpoint and they receive more time. Battlefield: Bad Company 2 (and Battlefield 3, I think) - RushThe Offense team's objective is to arm and detonate two M-COM explosive stations. To arm one, you have to stand near it an hold the "E" key, not doing anything else for about 10 seconds. Once it's armed, it will explode in about a minute. The Defense team can disarm a station once it's armed to stop it from exploding, once disarmed, it can be armed again by an Offense player. The Defense team wins if they get a certain amount of kills before both M-COM stations are detonated. See how those modes might make gameplay really interesting without being a full-on story mode?
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#82 Offline alpha123

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Posted Oct 31 2011 - 09:22 PM

I forgot SourceForge - we might want to use that instead of GitHub. SourceForge has better web hosting functionality, IMHO.

I'm rather biased as a JavaScript and Ruby programmer (look at the most popular languages on GitHub...), but I much prefer GitHub, and I think it supports collaborative development better than SourceForge. GitHub Pages provides fine web hosting functionality.

Who are our playable characters? Matoran? Toa? Will we have different classes for different factions (i.e. Rahkshi, Bohrok)? If we do that, can it just be a graphic swap? Balancing two factions would be a nightmare, I think.

Look at the trouble Katuko is having just balancing Toa and Rahkshi. I vote no factions.

In general, at what point in BIONICLE history does this take place? I'd say our choices would be Core War, Pre-Cataclysm (i.e. 2004-2005), Post-Cataclysm (i.e. 2001-2003, 2006-2008), and Post-Journey's-End.

I vote 2001-2003.

What are the maps?

Maps can be the different Wahi plus Kini-Nui and the Kuma Islets (like in the BZPRPG).

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If the Kanohi masks are a type of technology and most of the MU citizens are Biomechanical beings then how would a Kanohi mask recognize the difference between a Matoran and a Toa?

 

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#83 Offline BULiK

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 07:05 AM

See how those modes might make gameplay really interesting without being a full-on story mode?

well how are you going to explan toa runningarund detonating huts or pushing bomb carts around the city? story. 'nuff said

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#84 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 09:49 AM

well how are you going to explan toa runningarund detonating huts or pushing bomb carts around the city? story. 'nuff said

Actually, I think a lack of story would make more sense in this case :)

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#85 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 10:03 AM

Dude, why is your post in HTML? O_o Objective-based is a little bit different than story mode; mostly because it's still two teams against each other. Let me give you a couple of examples because Battlefront and Republic Commando multiplayer don't do a good job of this: Team Fortress 2 - PayloadThe BLU team's objective is to push a bomb-cart to the enemy's base. To push it, at least one player has to stand next to it; the more players pushing it, the faster it goes. If nobody gets close to it for about 15 seconds, it starts to move backwards. The RED team's objective is to defend the cart; if the BLU team doesn't achieve their objective within a certain amount of time, the RED team wins. One more hiccup: whenever the BLU team pushes the cart to a checkpoint, it can't go back any farther than that checkpoint and they receive more time. Battlefield: Bad Company 2 (and Battlefield 3, I think) - RushThe Offense team's objective is to arm and detonate two M-COM explosive stations. To arm one, you have to stand near it an hold the "E" key, not doing anything else for about 10 seconds. Once it's armed, it will explode in about a minute. The Defense team can disarm a station once it's armed to stop it from exploding, once disarmed, it can be armed again by an Offense player. The Defense team wins if they get a certain amount of kills before both M-COM stations are detonated. See how those modes might make gameplay really interesting without being a full-on story mode?

Exactly. I prefer the former (TF2) game mode, but both sound quite interesting and fun, IMHO.

I forgot SourceForge - we might want to use that instead of GitHub. SourceForge has better web hosting functionality, IMHO.

I'm rather biased as a JavaScript and Ruby programmer (look at the most popular languages on GitHub...), but I much prefer GitHub, and I think it supports collaborative development better than SourceForge. GitHub Pages provides fine web hosting functionality.

Who are our playable characters? Matoran? Toa? Will we have different classes for different factions (i.e. Rahkshi, Bohrok)? If we do that, can it just be a graphic swap? Balancing two factions would be a nightmare, I think.

Look at the trouble Katuko is having just balancing Toa and Rahkshi. I vote no factions.

In general, at what point in BIONICLE history does this take place? I'd say our choices would be Core War, Pre-Cataclysm (i.e. 2004-2005), Post-Cataclysm (i.e. 2001-2003, 2006-2008), and Post-Journey's-End.

I vote 2001-2003.

What are the maps?

Maps can be the different Wahi plus Kini-Nui and the Kuma Islets (like in the BZPRPG).

I vote no factions as well. I'm all in favor of multiple classes, though, like TF2's Heavy, Sniper, or Scout. Also, I really prefer SourceForge's web hosting over GitHub's - SourceForge's web hosting features include server-side script hosting, so we could easily install a wiki or CMS - something we couldn't do with GitHub. I admit that GitHub is a bit more light-weight than SourceForge, and thus encourages collaborative development more, but we can easily host a Git repo on SourceForge, and most of GitHub's advantages disappear.

Edited by UltraHau, Nov 01 2011 - 10:03 AM.

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#86 Offline BULiK

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 10:27 AM

well how are you going to explan toa runningarund detonating huts or pushing bomb carts around the city? story. 'nuff said

Actually, I think a lack of story would make more sense in this case :)

so this will just be a bunch of toa and makuta blowing up the world with no point, because a toa randomly said "lets go make WW3 because im bored"?it just seems to lack a point. you need something or someone to fight for. because otherwise it's just mindess violence. make each faction have a reason to fight.

Edited by bulik, Nov 01 2011 - 10:28 AM.

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#87 Offline alpha123

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 01:15 PM

Also, I really prefer SourceForge's web hosting over GitHub's - SourceForge's web hosting features include server-side script hosting, so we could easily install a wiki or CMS - something we couldn't do with GitHub. I admit that GitHub is a bit more light-weight than SourceForge, and thus encourages collaborative development more, but we can easily host a Git repo on SourceForge, and most of GitHub's advantages disappear.

GitHub has a wiki built in, and I don't see why we'd need a CMS. GitHub Issues totally rocks (I haven't actually used SourceForge for any of my own projects, so I don't know about SourceForge's issue tracker). Interesting, I didn't know SourceForge let you host git repos.

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If the Kanohi masks are a type of technology and most of the MU citizens are Biomechanical beings then how would a Kanohi mask recognize the difference between a Matoran and a Toa?

 

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#88 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 01:18 PM

well how are you going to explan toa runningarund detonating huts or pushing bomb carts around the city? story. 'nuff said

Actually, I think a lack of story would make more sense in this case :)

so this will just be a bunch of toa and makuta blowing up the world with no point, because a toa randomly said "lets go make WW3 because im bored"?it just seems to lack a point. you need something or someone to fight for. because otherwise it's just mindess violence. make each faction have a reason to fight.

2 factions want control over the same plot of land. They both hire an identical amount of mercenaries with identical weapons. They fight each other. End of story....Well hey, it was good enough for Team Fortress 2 ^_^ Seriously, I don't think a story is necessary. Think of some of the greatest games of all time: Tetris, Super Mario Bros., and Doom. Only Doom had a story that couldn't fit into a single sentence, and Tetris didn't have any story in the first place. Also take a look at one of the most successful (IMHO) Bionicle fangames in recent years: Bionicle Fighter. No story, whatsoever. Many times, a game is okay (or even better) without a story. So I vote "no story", and considering there are 3 team members - 2 of which don't want a story, or at least a substantial one - I think that means this game won't have a story, or at least one that doesn't fit in a sentence or two.

Also, I really prefer SourceForge's web hosting over GitHub's - SourceForge's web hosting features include server-side script hosting, so we could easily install a wiki or CMS - something we couldn't do with GitHub. I admit that GitHub is a bit more light-weight than SourceForge, and thus encourages collaborative development more, but we can easily host a Git repo on SourceForge, and most of GitHub's advantages disappear.

GitHub has a wiki built in, and I don't see why we'd need a CMS. GitHub Issues totally rocks (I haven't actually used SourceForge for any of my own projects, so I don't know about SourceForge's issue tracker). Interesting, I didn't know SourceForge let you host git repos.

Well, a CMS might not be necessary - we're probably not at a stage where we need anything beyond a wiki - but the reason I prefer SourceForge is that you get to control exactly what applications you use for things like a wiki or issue tracking, and you can install most popular open-source web applications on SourceForge with a single click. GitHub is probably better for us now, because we're a smaller project, but once we start to outgrow GitHub, I think SourceForge is worth a serious look.

Edited by UltraHau, Nov 01 2011 - 01:28 PM.

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#89 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 03:41 PM

In general, story doesn't help a multiplayer game. Here's the way I see it: a game that doesn't make sense can still be fun, but a game that tries to make sense will fail, at which point it's just utterly stupid.Free from the constraints of a story, we can let players take the roles of their favorite characters without complicating balance. Here's all we need: It's BIONICLE. There are good guys and bad guys. "Good" species like Toa can be bad guys (see Tuyet) and "bad" species like Makuta can be good guys (see Teridax in Time Trap). Bad guys want to cause chaos, good guys want to stop them, and, most importantly, BZPower wants to log in and throw some fireballs around. Edit: Actually, that gives me an idea: Two factions, Order and Chaos. Both have identical classes, but "Good" guys tend to be better at defense while "Bad" guys are more violent, so in asymmetrical attack/defense game modes, the visuals will make canon sense.That raises the issue, of course, of two factions having identical classes... how do you tell them apart? Most games do that with outfit or color, but bio-mechanical beings don't wear clothes and color actually has meaning, so...

Edited by Jedi Knight Krazy, Nov 01 2011 - 03:56 PM.

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#90 Offline BULiK

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 04:04 PM

thats why i like matoran civil ar era because it's metru vs metru to you can asily identify your enemies and allies
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#91 Online Parks and Rekt

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 04:23 PM

Whatever happened to that one game Bioshock was developing? Something with an I...
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#92 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 04:28 PM

thats why i like matoran civil ar era because it's metru vs metru to you can asily identify your enemies and allies

Color-coded teams can easily accomplish the same thing, like in Team Fortress 2.

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#93 Offline BULiK

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 05:10 PM

thats why i like matoran civil ar era because it's metru vs metru to you can asily identify your enemies and allies

Color-coded teams can easily accomplish the same thing, like in Team Fortress 2.

and starwars battlefront 2 but in bionicle, color coded stuff would be hard to explain. for example, if the teams were red vs bue, all the blue toa would be water and the red would be fire/plasma

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#94 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 05:34 PM

thats why i like matoran civil ar era because it's metru vs metru to you can asily identify your enemies and allies

Color-coded teams can easily accomplish the same thing, like in Team Fortress 2.

and starwars battlefront 2 but in bionicle, color coded stuff would be hard to explain. for example, if the teams were red vs bue, all the blue toa would be water and the red would be fire/plasma

    [*]No-one said it had to be explained - this is a non-canonical game[*]Each team could wear a sort of shirt with their team color on it - their whole body doesn't need to be their team's color[/list]
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#95 Offline BULiK

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 05:53 PM

<p>Do bionicles wear shirts?</p><p>heres JKK's opinion</p><p> </p><div>

<p> bio-mechanical beings don't wear clothes</p><p>

</p><p> </p><p>it just seems like having a bunch of bionicles randomly fighting each other because you want them too is enough for you guys, but it seems like just sticking bionicle characters in a deathmatch is enough plot for you :\</p><p> </p></div>

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#96 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 06:37 PM

    [*]No-one said it had to be explained - this is a non-canonical game[*]Each team could wear a sort of shirt with their team color on it - their whole body doesn't need to be their team's color[/list]

I think Bulik's kind of got a point on this one; color is important in the Bionicle universe, and though our game is non-canon, we have to maintain the basic elements that Bionicle, well, Bionicle-y.I think a shirt would be a bit weird... I'd be okay with a long, flowing cloak (like Vezon), as long as I'm not the one to animate it :POr, maybe we just take it as it is. I know that in Battlefield and Call of Duty, it can be tough to differentiate teammates; your only real clue is that teammates have a name over their head.There could be subtle differences. Maybe they'll wear faction insignia on their shoulders, or gauntlets of a team color. Maybe the Chaos team's armor looks rusted and worn while the Order team's looks clean and polished.

it just seems like having a bunch of bionicles randomly fighting each other because you want them too is enough for you guys, but it seems like just sticking bionicle characters in a deathmatch is enough plot for you :\

Yes, it is enough plot, because it's a multiplayer game. Your Star Wars games don't do much better in multiplayer mode: stick a few clone troopers and a few battle droids (or lizard-people, in the case of Republic Commando) in a map, and you've got yourself a battle. I don't want to speak for UltraHau or Alpha, but I think we've pretty much decided against the Matoran Civil War, or any full-canon era, because it limits us too much in terms of what classes we can use. I appreciate your feedback, but I think that this point has pretty much been exhausted and we need to move on to other decisions. I do agree that the Matoran Civil War might make a good game. Maybe you can make that your own project? PM me if you need help getting started.

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#97 Offline BULiK

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 06:50 PM

yeah, like that will ever happen :P I see that you arent budging, and i know when i lose an argument.but actually, now that i think about it, not knowing who your teamates are is a cool gameplay concept.
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#98 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 07:37 PM

but actually, now that i think about it, not knowing who your teamates are is a cool gameplay concept.

Well, now that you're finally agreeing with me, I'm gonna argue with the point you just agreed on :PWhile it's a good concept, I don't think it really fits Bionicle too well, where you almost always know who the bad guy is... hmm. The more I think of it, the factions really should have their own character models, even if their powers and stats are the same. The hitboxes should be as similar as possible, too.

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#99 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Nov 01 2011 - 10:31 PM

Personally, I think a nametag for your team mates and no nametag for enemies is good enough, but I'm open to suggestions.
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#100 Offline alpha123

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Posted Nov 02 2011 - 12:23 AM

Personally, I think a nametag for your team mates and no nametag for enemies is good enough, but I'm open to suggestions.

In general, I like that idea, but I think we can come up with something better. Maybe teammates would be glowing and enemies wouldn't be?

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If the Kanohi masks are a type of technology and most of the MU citizens are Biomechanical beings then how would a Kanohi mask recognize the difference between a Matoran and a Toa?

 

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#101 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Nov 02 2011 - 04:22 AM

Personally, I think a nametag for your team mates and no nametag for enemies is good enough, but I'm open to suggestions.

In general, I like that idea, but I think we can come up with something better. Maybe teammates would be glowing and enemies wouldn't be?

I'm not so sure that would look too good; besides, glow can be a GPU-heavy process.

Edited by UltraHau, Nov 02 2011 - 04:23 AM.

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I have but one destiny.
-Takanuva, MoL
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#102 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Nov 02 2011 - 09:52 AM

We can always run some experiments to see what looks good.Now, I think the most important question is which classes we should have. I think we should start by choosing a few species/characters we'd really like to play as; balance considerations can come later.
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#103 Offline BULiK

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Posted Nov 02 2011 - 10:05 AM

I definately want matoran, tohunga-style, if not just for the nostalgia.

Edited by bulik, Nov 02 2011 - 10:05 AM.

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#104 Offline alpha123

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Posted Nov 02 2011 - 02:32 PM

I'm not so sure that would look too good; besides, glow can be a GPU-heavy process.

If it was just a faint glow, preferably a color that stands out against the environment, I think it would look fine. You're right that it could be GPU intensive.

We can always run some experiments to see what looks good.Now, I think the most important question is which classes we should have. I think we should start by choosing a few species/characters we'd really like to play as; balance considerations can come later.

I vote Toa, Rahkshi, Skakdi and maybe Bohrok.

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If the Kanohi masks are a type of technology and most of the MU citizens are Biomechanical beings then how would a Kanohi mask recognize the difference between a Matoran and a Toa?

 

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#105 Offline The Lonesome Wanderer

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Posted Nov 02 2011 - 02:49 PM

I think that we should make a 3-d map of all of the islands. I now how to make a free, no download version.
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#106 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Nov 02 2011 - 04:21 PM

We can always run some experiments to see what looks good.Now, I think the most important question is which classes we should have. I think we should start by choosing a few species/characters we'd really like to play as; balance considerations can come later.

I've come up with a few:
    [*]Medic - ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin. Similar to TF2's Medic class.[*]Olmak - Generates Portal-style portals. Probably would have no weapons beside a portal gun.[*]Demo - Fires grenades similar to the ones Nuparu launches in BH.[/list]EDIT: Oh, did you mean which species I/we think should be in the game?

    I definately want matoran, tohunga-style, if not just for the nostalgia.

    That's not a class, you know.

    I think that we should make a 3-d map of all of the islands. I now how to make a free, no download version.

      [*]That's too time-consuming[*]The resulting graphics quality would be far below what we could accomplish with just a few smaller levels[*]The resulting gameplay quality would be lower, as well[/list]

      Edited by UltraHau, Nov 02 2011 - 04:24 PM.

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#107 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Nov 02 2011 - 07:16 PM

I definately want matoran, tohunga-style, if not just for the nostalgia.

Ehhh, I guess I did say we'd worry about balance later. The thing about Matoran is that they're better for story than gameplay; they're weak, so they're more relatable, but they're not very fun to play as. If Matoran appear anywhere in the game, though, I agree that they should have their 2001 appearance.

I vote Toa, Rahkshi, Skakdi and maybe Bohrok.

I think Toa are unanimous... right everybody?+1 for Skakdi and Rahkshi.I'm torn on Bohrok... on one hand they'd be really cool, but their big deal is strength in numbers, and they're really not smart enough to be individual characters. Plus their gameplay would probably be a complete ripoff of Droidekas from Battlefront :PA friend actually had an interesting idea for Bohrok: playing as one would spawn you with a small squad of AI Bohrok that follow you and take orders. THAT would be tricky to code, though.

I think that we should make a 3-d map of all of the islands. I now how to make a free, no download version.

While all the islands might be a good idea, like UltraHau said, it probably wouldn't be good for gameplay. Keep in mind our small community; if all of the FCG forum was in a single server, it might be a 6 v 6 game... and that's if we pick up a few fans on the way. However, if you can make maps, that would be an extremely welcome addition to the team. Why don't you post some of your work so we can see if you can help.

EDIT: Oh, did you mean which species I/we think should be in the game?

Yeah. I think at this phase, we need to focus on the theme and design gameplay to fit those decisions, otherwise this will just feel like a shooter with Bionicle graphics, and we might as well make a skin for TF2.New topic for debate: Third person or first person?I vote third-person, myself. It's more accessible (gaming newbies tend to get dizzy from an FPS) and it helps sell the Bionicle, character-driven aspect of the game.

Edited by Jedi Knight Krazy, Nov 02 2011 - 07:17 PM.

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#108 Offline Chibinuva

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Posted Nov 02 2011 - 07:26 PM

First off, if there is a setting, The Core War anyone? It would work great for multiplayer (and you could have buckets of EP in the color of your team.) As for teams, assuming they are order and chaos, order should have clean armor, possibly with a sheen or gleam to it, while chaos would have dirty, rust armor (like the infected kanohi, but for all their armor, and in whatever color they are, not red and black.) I don't necessarily want classes, but I would prefer the six main elements balanced out, along with different body types like in Brink that have slightly different physical stats. Also, it would be interesting if they had different weapons based on character type (in BH, I believe it went Fire: Infantry Water: Heavy Weapons Air: Rifleman Earth: RPG Stone: Rocket Launcher Ice: Sniper) but of course that's just an option. Also, I'm thinking they could maybe have certain weapon upgrades based on character (e.g. thermal vision for fire/ice character.) As for 3rd or 1st person, I'm thinking it should be first person, but it could work in 3rd like BH (especially with something like Matoro's sniper scope.) If you could switch between 1st and 3rd person, that would be awesome, but probably hard to program. How about elements act as classes, and species acts as body type (e.g. matoran are weaker but can fit into small areas, matoran are bigger and can do certain things like wall jumps, skakdi are bigger but can break through walls,) like in Brink. Mask powers could work as classes as well, but then what would elements do? (unless elements were certain weapon types like in BH.)Okay, how about this. Species are body types like in Brink, elements are classes, and masks are perks like in Modern Warfare 2 (e.g. instead of wearing a suit for a stealth or bomb-resistant class, you wear a Kanohi Volitak/Hau.) Does that work?
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#109 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Nov 02 2011 - 08:02 PM

First off, if there is a setting, The Core War anyone? It would work great for multiplayer (and you could have buckets of EP in the color of your team.) As for teams, assuming they are order and chaos, order should have clean armor, possibly with a sheen or gleam to it, while chaos would have dirty, rust armor (like the infected kanohi, but for all their armor, and in whatever color they are, not red and black.) I don't necessarily want classes, but I would prefer the six main elements balanced out, along with different body types like in Brink that have slightly different physical stats. Also, it would be interesting if they had different weapons based on character type (in BH, I believe it went Fire: Infantry Water: Heavy Weapons Air: Rifleman Earth: RPG Stone: Rocket Launcher Ice: Sniper) but of course that's just an option. Also, I'm thinking they could maybe have certain weapon upgrades based on character (e.g. thermal vision for fire/ice character.) As for 3rd or 1st person, I'm thinking it should be first person, but it could work in 3rd like BH (especially with something like Matoro's sniper scope.) If you could switch between 1st and 3rd person, that would be awesome, but probably hard to program. How about elements act as classes, and species acts as body type (e.g. matoran are weaker but can fit into small areas, matoran are bigger and can do certain things like wall jumps, skakdi are bigger but can break through walls,) like in Brink. Mask powers could work as classes as well, but then what would elements do? (unless elements were certain weapon types like in BH.)Okay, how about this. Species are body types like in Brink, elements are classes, and masks are perks like in Modern Warfare 2 (e.g. instead of wearing a suit for a stealth or bomb-resistant class, you wear a Kanohi Volitak/Hau.) Does that work?

    [*]Actually, we (the team) already decided on a setting - '01-'03. The whole game is non-canonical though, so I don't think it matters too much.[*]I think that one team should be comprised completely of Toa; the other, Skakdi. This makes your team mates easily identifiable.[*]Per-class upgrades would be hard to verify over a network - I think they should be left out for now.[*]I personally want a 1st-person camera view, but making the camera be able to switch between 1st and 3rd-person at runtime is a piece of cake with Panda3D, so I think that's a non-issue.[*]Your elements = classes, species = physical abilities idea sounds interesting, but it's too hard to balance at the moment, IMHO.[/list]

    I definately want matoran, tohunga-style, if not just for the nostalgia.

    Ehhh, I guess I did say we'd worry about balance later. The thing about Matoran is that they're better for story than gameplay; they're weak, so they're more relatable, but they're not very fun to play as. If Matoran appear anywhere in the game, though, I agree that they should have their 2001 appearance.

    I vote Toa, Rahkshi, Skakdi and maybe Bohrok.

    I think Toa are unanimous... right everybody?+1 for Skakdi and Rahkshi.I'm torn on Bohrok... on one hand they'd be really cool, but their big deal is strength in numbers, and they're really not smart enough to be individual characters. Plus their gameplay would probably be a complete ripoff of Droidekas from Battlefront :PA friend actually had an interesting idea for Bohrok: playing as one would spawn you with a small squad of AI Bohrok that follow you and take orders. THAT would be tricky to code, though.

    I think that we should make a 3-d map of all of the islands. I now how to make a free, no download version.

    While all the islands might be a good idea, like UltraHau said, it probably wouldn't be good for gameplay. Keep in mind our small community; if all of the FCG forum was in a single server, it might be a 6 v 6 game... and that's if we pick up a few fans on the way. However, if you can make maps, that would be an extremely welcome addition to the team. Why don't you post some of your work so we can see if you can help.

    EDIT: Oh, did you mean which species I/we think should be in the game?

    Yeah. I think at this phase, we need to focus on the theme and design gameplay to fit those decisions, otherwise this will just feel like a shooter with Bionicle graphics, and we might as well make a skin for TF2.New topic for debate: Third person or first person?I vote third-person, myself. It's more accessible (gaming newbies tend to get dizzy from an FPS) and it helps sell the Bionicle, character-driven aspect of the game.

    I'd like Toa and Skakdi for in-game species, possibly with Bohrok and Rahkshi later on.Also, that Bohrok idea sounds interesting; making AI with Panda3D is easy thanks to its community-provided AI library, so we might want to consider that.As for whether I want a 1st or 3rd-person camera: Like I said above, you can easily write code to switch the camera style at runtime with Panda3D, so it's pretty much a non-issue.

    Edited by UltraHau, Nov 02 2011 - 08:08 PM.

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#110 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Nov 02 2011 - 08:29 PM

Sounds good to me. I'm in favor of the following decisions:
    [*]Toa on the Order Team, Skakdi for Chaos team. Both are physically identical[*]Elements are classes: Fire, Earth, Stone, Ice, Water, Air (exact roles TBD)[/list]First-person camera still seems like a lot of work to me. Keep in mind that we don't just have to program different camera controls; we have to model completely different gun models for first-person, and we have to make sure that third-person doesn't give too much of an advantage (i.e. field of view).What if we do something like in Metroid: Other M *cringe* where gameplay forces you to switch frequently between first-person and third-person? In Other M, for example, missiles are only available in first-person mode, but you can only move in third-person. I'm not suggesting anything that drastic, but that's where I'm getting the idea.(Oh, Metroid: Other M. Living proof that a bad story is worse than no story)I think Bohrok should be available for both teams (since, technically, Bohrok are empty shells that can be trained or programmed to do what you want, as long as they don't have Krana) at a later time in development . Rahkshi should be available for the Chaos team (also later); we need a parallel species for Order.
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#111 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Nov 02 2011 - 09:48 PM

Sounds good to me. I'm in favor of the following decisions:

    [*]Toa on the Order Team, Skakdi for Chaos team. Both are physically identical[*]Elements are classes: Fire, Earth, Stone, Ice, Water, Air (exact roles TBD)[/list]First-person camera still seems like a lot of work to me. Keep in mind that we don't just have to program different camera controls; we have to model completely different gun models for first-person, and we have to make sure that third-person doesn't give too much of an advantage (i.e. field of view).What if we do something like in Metroid: Other M *cringe* where gameplay forces you to switch frequently between first-person and third-person? In Other M, for example, missiles are only available in first-person mode, but you can only move in third-person. I'm not suggesting anything that drastic, but that's where I'm getting the idea.(Oh, Metroid: Other M. Living proof that a bad story is worse than no story)I think Bohrok should be available for both teams (since, technically, Bohrok are empty shells that can be trained or programmed to do what you want, as long as they don't have Krana) at a later time in development . Rahkshi should be available for the Chaos team (also later); we need a parallel species for Order.

    [*]A 1st-person is arguably easier to code than a 3rd-person one, at least with Panda3D: Reparent the camera to the player's 3D model (so it moves and rotates when the model does), offset it a little bit so it's in the model's head, and you're basically done, with less than 5 lines of Python. Adding free-look is around another 5-10 lines of Python - very inexpensive.[*]I don't see why multiple weapon models are needed for the separate camera views; could you explain why, please?[*]Balancing out the 3rd-person camera with the 1st-person one is a one-time process, so I think it's worth it, especially considering how much more powerful a 1st-person camera is.[*]I agree that Bohrok should be available for both teams; as for a Rahkshi equivalent for Order, how about Vahki?[/list]
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#112 Offline alpha123

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Posted Nov 03 2011 - 12:43 AM

A 1st-person is arguably easier to code than a 3rd-person one, at least with Panda3D: Reparent the camera to the player's 3D model (so it moves and rotates when the model does), offset it a little bit so it's in the model's head, and you're basically done, with less than 5 lines of Python. Adding free-look is around another 5-10 lines of Python - very inexpensive.

I vote 3rd person, but since it sounds easy to switch between first person and third person with Panda3D, we should definitely go for that.

I agree that Bohrok should be available for both teams; as for a Rahkshi equivalent for Order, how about Vahki?

Bohrok should be available to both teams, but how are they created? A player collects a certain materials and goes to a special location to have it turned into a Bohrok? Or should each team be allocated a certain number of Bohrok in the beginning?I really like the idea of Vahki as a Rahkshi equivalent for Order.

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If the Kanohi masks are a type of technology and most of the MU citizens are Biomechanical beings then how would a Kanohi mask recognize the difference between a Matoran and a Toa?

 

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#113 Offline BULiK

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Posted Nov 03 2011 - 06:42 AM

huh, you guys are really starting to sound like you want battlefront 2 xD.its just, it this was a small map game, like tf2, then having over 4 different species would be, IMO, very claustrophobic, because if every player was a squad of bohrok, that bttelfront 2 for ya xD.and bohrok could be the "bots" in the game, because that would make more sense, with the ki for vahki for the order team, except without all those painful staff powers.
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#114 Offline Chibinuva

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Posted Nov 03 2011 - 07:24 AM

huh, you guys are really starting to sound like you want battlefront 2 xD.its just, it this was a small map game, like tf2, then having over 4 different species would be, IMO, very claustrophobic, because if every player was a squad of bohrok, that bttelfront 2 for ya xD.and bohrok could be the "bots" in the game, because that would make more sense, with the ki for vahki for the order team, except without all those painful staff powers.

Rahkshi have painful staff powers too. :P Also, I like bohrok being bots, but I'm thinking they could be a type of care package. If we have killstreaks, one of them could be unleashing a swarm of bohrok (kinda like the pack of wolves in Call of Duty: Black Ops.) Also, maybe for rahkshi and vahki, their weapons might have special effects, but be weaker (namely status effects like your screen icing over, your character slowly burning up or being confused, etc.)

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#115 Offline BULiK

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Posted Nov 03 2011 - 07:29 AM

yeah, like a certain type of vahki hit would be like a flashbang, and ( i havent tried one on other games) it would be like repub commando, where there is a flash and about 5 seconds of dazed stuff with the camera hard to move, and kickback really messes with your aim.

Edited by Bulik, Nov 03 2011 - 07:30 AM.

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#116 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Nov 03 2011 - 09:44 AM

    [*]I don't see why multiple weapon models are needed for the separate camera views; could you explain why, please?[*]Balancing out the 3rd-person camera with the 1st-person one is a one-time process, so I think it's worth it, especially considering how much more powerful a 1st-person camera is.[*]I agree that Bohrok should be available for both teams; as for a Rahkshi equivalent for Order, how about Vahki?[/list]

Check out the source files of any first-person shooter; they use much more detailed models for the first-person guns, and they don't even render the character model for the player. Even in those rare games where you can see your legs, those are a separate model, too. The reason: clipping. If you put a camera literally in the head of your character, you'll see weird glitchy stuff that represents the inside of your head. (you'll mostly see out due to backface culling but there will be random polygons everywhere) If you turn on a camera near plane, you still won't see the gun (it'll be too low), and when you look down, you'll see a gaping hole where your torso should be. Moving the gun closer to the face means that near clipping will probably chop off the back of the gun, plus it would be weird to have everybody running around with guns crammed in their faces.In a professional first-person shooter, it first renders the world, using standard models for other characters.Then it does a second pass and draws a detailed gun model on top of the screen (without doing any clipping! Otherwise your gun will clip when you look at a wall)@Hyper Rarity: I really don't like the idea of kill-streaks. It's too self-focused for a team game. Maybe we could use Bohrok like drones in Battlefield: Bad Company 2; essentially, there's a station where you can remote control a squad of Bohrok. Or... dare I say it... like heroes in Battlefront 2, as sort of a team killstreak?I like the idea of Bohrok being a bonus, because they'd be quite fun to play as, probably overpowered (or boring, if we balance it) if we let players spawn normally as them.The only species available for teams, then, would be Toa/Skakdi and Vahki/Rahkshi? Maybe a bit weird because most Bionicle fans know Vahki as bad guys (even though they are "order" enforcers, which works well for our purposes)...Although, I don't think there have been any major heroes in Bionicle besides Toa...

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#117 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Nov 03 2011 - 10:42 AM

    [*]I don't see why multiple weapon models are needed for the separate camera views; could you explain why, please?[*]Balancing out the 3rd-person camera with the 1st-person one is a one-time process, so I think it's worth it, especially considering how much more powerful a 1st-person camera is.[*]I agree that Bohrok should be available for both teams; as for a Rahkshi equivalent for Order, how about Vahki?[/list]

Check out the source files of any first-person shooter; they use much more detailed models for the first-person guns, and they don't even render the character model for the player. Even in those rare games where you can see your legs, those are a separate model, too. The reason: clipping. If you put a camera literally in the head of your character, you'll see weird glitchy stuff that represents the inside of your head. (you'll mostly see out due to backface culling but there will be random polygons everywhere) If you turn on a camera near plane, you still won't see the gun (it'll be too low), and when you look down, you'll see a gaping hole where your torso should be. Moving the gun closer to the face means that near clipping will probably chop off the back of the gun, plus it would be weird to have everybody running around with guns crammed in their faces. In a professional first-person shooter, it first renders the world, using standard models for other characters.Then it does a second pass and draws a detailed gun model on top of the screen (without doing any clipping! Otherwise your gun will clip when you look at a wall) @Hyper Rarity: I really don't like the idea of kill-streaks. It's too self-focused for a team game. Maybe we could use Bohrok like drones in Battlefield: Bad Company 2; essentially, there's a station where you can remote control a squad of Bohrok. Or... dare I say it... like heroes in Battlefront 2, as sort of a team killstreak? I like the idea of Bohrok being a bonus, because they'd be quite fun to play as, probably overpowered (or boring, if we balance it) if we let players spawn normally as them. The only species available for teams, then, would be Toa/Skakdi and Vahki/Rahkshi? Maybe a bit weird because most Bionicle fans know Vahki as bad guys (even though they are "order" enforcers, which works well for our purposes)... Although, I don't think there have been any major heroes in Bionicle besides Toa...

    [*]That issue can easily be overcome by either disabling back-face rendering (so if the camera is inside the head, the head won't be drawn), moving the camera so that it's slightly outside the head, or by flat-out culling the entire player's body at runtime - all possible with Panda3D. At the moment, I don't think we have to worry about highly detailed models; besides, with shadow mapping and pre-calculated ambient occlusion thrown in, I doubt anyone could recognize any lack of quality. BTW, what FPSes are you referring to that use the approach you described? Warsow and World of Padman (both of which use the open-source AAA idTech 3 engine) use that last method I mentioned.[*]I like kill-streaks; awarding various upgrades to better players could be interesting.[*]Team kill-streaks? That also sounds good, especially with the Bohrok squads as the reward.[*]IMHO, balancing Bohrok is easy: Let them only roll if they aren't carrying the flag (in CTF mode), and disable shooting while rolling as well. (A rolling Bohrok might be considered as a weapon in and of itself.) Otherwise, they walk. Let them also use their natural fly ability (like in BH), but limit their vertical distance, and slow them down while flying. That's enough interesting abilities that I think some players would try them out.[*]I think 2 species per team is good. That's 12 classes per team, plus whatever Bohrok bring to the table, which is plenty of opportunity for creativity.[*]Vahki being considered evil was/is due to them repeatedly attempting to apprehend the Toa Metru, and considering the TM were seen as criminals by the general public (general public of Metru Nui), I don't think the Vahki can really be blamed.[*]True, there haven't been any major heroes in Bionicle who weren't Toa (with possibly the exceptions of Axonn and Takua), but remember what Kopaka had to say on this subject. ^_^[/list]

    Edited by UltraHau, Nov 03 2011 - 10:28 PM.

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#118 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Nov 03 2011 - 05:45 PM

BTW, what FPSes are you referring to that use the approach you described? Warsow and World of Padman (both of which use the open-source AAA idTech 3 engine) use that last method I mentioned.

Source games use the method I described, as well as Crysis and the Battlefield series. I think Halo, too. Not sure about Call of Duty, but I wouldn't be surprised.I had an idea for how to encourage switching modes: you know how some FPS games let you look down the sights of your gun for more accuracy? What if we just jumped into first-person mode whenever somebody does that, and go third-person other times?Kill-streaks can be fun, but they have the potential to really ruin teamwork because they reward individual player's performance, which is not necessarily linked to the team's performance.And by the way, the two Matoran who Kopaka told "you don't have to be a Toa to be a hero" happened to be Jaller and Takua... who later became Toa. Food for thought! [/GLaDOS]

Edited by Jedi Knight Krazy, Nov 03 2011 - 05:47 PM.

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#119 Online Councilor Manducus

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Posted Nov 06 2011 - 06:44 PM

Online gameplay or like a World War Bionicle fight
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#120 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Nov 07 2011 - 03:58 PM

Online gameplay or like a World War Bionicle fight

You're in luck! If you haven't been following the last few posts, we're planning to create a Bionicle multiplayer Third-and-First-Person Shooter!

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