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Official Red Star Guide


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#1 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 06:18 PM

S&T used to have a lot of official topics for major subjects of discussion, and they used to have factlists, putting all of the most important things we knew about a subject in one place. Since Bionicle ended these have fallen out of use as there hasn't been much need for them, but the Red Star has been one subject that has had a lot of ongoing misconceptions (probably just because there's been so many reveals about it that came after the story ended), and the quotes from Greg about them are spread out over a number of topics.

 

So, I thought it would be handy to put them all in one place. Please note that although this topic is official, it is an "official guide" which just means it's revivable -- discussion about the Red Star may, yes, may, go in other topics. :) (I may close some basic question topics which are answered here, though.) But this will be one optional place for discussion about it, and a place to link to so finding all the related quotes won't be so tricky. I've also included comments about major unanswered questions and some related theories.

 

Basic Factlist:

 

- The Red Star has four main known functions:

 

1) Serves like a space shuttle's extra rocket boosters to help the Great Spirit robot leave a planet's gravity, connecting like a backpack to it for space travel, and leaving to orbit a planet when he lands.

 

2) Has a "Toa-izing" beam, a contingency for if destined Matoran are outside the robot and Toa are needed there (as happened on Voya Nui with the Toa Inika).

 

3) Its motions, with respect to real stars in the background form shapes that help predict the future.

 

4) The one that the big reveals have all been about -- it has its own interior habitat ruled by the Kestora, and having machines that teleport up Matoran Universe beings who die, and either repair their bodies or make new bodies, reviving them. Then it was supposed to send them back to the MU to continue their jobs, but that part of it hasn't worked for a long time. Thus, many beings who died in Bionicle's storyline are alive but trapped on the Red Star. The Kestora are apparently insane, killing many, and others may kill too, so we can't be sure everybody is still alive.

 

See basic history of the RS on the biosector01 page here.

 

- It revives sapient beings and Rahi from the Matoran Universe.

 

- Its range of revivability is not limited to the domes; Hydraxon is confirmed to be revived on the RS from the Pit, which is just inside the outer shell of the giant robot. It seems implied that if Takutanuva hadn't revived Jaller by other means, he would have been revived there too, but this is unclear. [See further comments and relevant Greg quotes below, and here's a summary of the reasons we can't assume "only in MU" in a post of mine in another topic.]

 

- Some corpses apparently do not get teleported up; the reasons why are unknown. This may be intentional or it may be glitches, etc.

 

- It can only revive you if there is a body -- total disintegration permanently kills you. It is not known for sure that a body without the brain intact will still work; it may need to download memories from the old body to the new. But if the brain is intact we can be sure that the being can be revived. (Although we can't necessarily be sure they were, or that they survived the harsh realm of the Red Star's interior to story-present.)

 

-It is "indirectly confirmed" or if you like, "strongly implied" that there is a wait time of unknown duration between a being's death and when they would disappear.

 

Confirmed (directly) revived:

-Mavrah (still alive)

-Hydraxon ([Correction: apparently still alive])

-Lhikan (specifically mentioned that we don't know if still alive)

-Botar (strongly implied still alive and since he can teleport, might even be back in the MU)

-Gaardus (sort of confirmed; we know he's alive now, the question was if he had been revived there in the past so that was how he knew of it, and Greg's answer left room for him to change his mind about it)

-Sidorak

-Guardian

 

Believed to be revived:

-Reysa (killed by a Rahi)

-Guardian (killed in Teridax's reign by ground swallowing him, though it's possible he was crushed too much to go... or may simply have suffocated or died on impact with a cave floor) (confirmed revived)

-Ihu (Nui-Rama destroyed base of a chute he was traveling in, presumably impact death)

-Jovan (killed as Voya Nui rocketed to the surface; presumably impact death)

-Kodan (killed by Eliminator, assumed not to have been disintegrated)

-Naho (same, and same with all other members of Lhikan's team other than Nidhiki and Tuyet)

-Nocturn (I'm unsure how he died but it was in trying to escape the new Pit)

-Sidorak (crushed by Keetongu, but this may have made the brain unrevivable, IF that is a limit to the RS) (confirmed revived)

 

 

Confirmed NOT revived:

-Matoro

-Makuta Teridax

-the other Makuta (gaseous antidermis only dies if it is destroyed basically)

-No Spherus Magna natives (it only works for Matoran Universe beings)

-Alternate (Decoy) Tuyet (unknown why not; Hydraxon is confirmed revived from the same location; see discussion here)

-Tren Krom (Greg said this was due to being "completely organic" -- what exactly this means is unclear; would strange protodermic beings like Krahka be unrevivable? Does there have to be a specific mechanical implant in them to be teleported? Or is Tren Krom not protodermic and made with older GB Spherus Magna means and more comparable to the naturally organic state of Agori?)

 

Believed to be NOT revived:

-Ancient (disintegrated by the Shadowed One)

-Carapar (disintegrated by Tren Krom)

-Karzahni (this may ONLY be because the wait time hasn't yet elapsed, or perhaps because he died after the disabling of the giant robot, or perhaps because he is too far away from the giant robot on Spherus Magna)

-Karzahni Plant (presumed not to include plants, plus it was huge too)

-Morbuzahk ("confirmed by plot" and also way too big)

-Nidhiki (mass absorbed by Teridax)

-Krekka (same)

 

Uncertain either way:

-Nikila and other members of Lesovikk's Toa Team (killed by Zyglak, unknown if they used their disintegration spears to do it or their consuming disease or other means -- also these deaths were so early some think they may be both revived and teleported home but never happened to be found by Lesovikk again)

 

Major unanswered questions (feel free to suggest more; I'm sure I've forgotten much here)

 

-When the Sendback teleporter stopped working (what year on the timeline).

 

-Exact range limits and whether MU beings who are outside the giant robot can be revived (strongly implied yes with Jaller; see my comments with relevant quotes below [and again this post in another topic])

 

-What "will" happen (or would have had the serials continued) to Kopaka and Pohatu who Gaardus teleported to the RS, and the Kestora were opposing.

 

-How and if Velika's plans involve the Red Star (one thing is that he seemed convinced Kopaka and Pohatu would get off of it).

 

-Exactly what is up with the Kestora's apparent insanity; what caused it, how much sanity they still have, and whether it has to do with why the Sendback teleporter was never repaired.

 

-What the inhabitants of the MU know or don't know about it (prior to Kopaka and Pohatu's discovery), if anything.

 

 

 

The Quotes

 

Greg's words are those that are in quote tags and not underlined. Underlined text is someone (usually Erebus) asking Greg a question. My comments are outside the quotes.

 

Mata Nui was supposed to be a self-sustaining system, and obviously, certain individuals played very important roles in maintaining it. In addition, it necessarily had finite resources for producing new beings to replace any lost in accidents, etc. Hence the red star -- a being who died inside Mata Nui would be teleported to the red star where their essence would be transplanted into another body and they would be sent back. Unfortunately, as with so many things related to Mata Nui's construction, it didn't work very well. The teleporting "to" worked but the teleporting "from" didn't, so a lot of newly revived dead folk were stuck on the satellite with no way to get back home.

 

That was the original reveal. (See the chapters of the unfinished serial that hinted at it here; Chapters 3 and 4.)

 

Why are some beings alive, like Mavrah, and others are not?

Matoro and the Makuta did not come back, for a simple reason. None of them have bodies anymore. The body is what is teleported up (which is why you don't see BIONICLE graveyards) and then either repaired or a new one is made to house the consciousness. If the body has been utterly destroyed, there is nothing to work with.

 

Note that fans had been asking about graveyards since at least 2003 (because of the question of Jaller's original body). This may imply the story team knew something unusual happened with dead bodies that far back. However, the timing of when it was all decided is unknown, and Greg seems to have implied in an audio interview that the RS part of it was recent. (See interview here; be warned it's really long! [Edit: See the video's description for the times where certain sections start.])

 

Note too that what counts as "something to work with" here is unclear. Is it the memories recorded in the brain, thus a destroyed brain means no revival? Or is it a body at all?

 

Perhaps relevant is Matoro's death and revival on the 777 stairs (in a room with red lightstones, possibly an early hint to the RS's purpose, though the RS itself was almost certainly not involved here). His entire body was turned to dust, yet revived by the machine. Some say this was just an illusion and he didn't really die. But it might mean that "disintegration" (into dust) is not as final as we are assuming, and only some kinds of disintegration count like the total destruction of Matoro later. Or that machine might be completely irrelevant, if it simply purposefully stores his memories and a record of how to remake his body before disintegrating him (which wouldn't apply to the RS).

 

What is the nature of the lightning that struck 6 Matoran?

There was never supposed to be Matoran outside the robot. The Toa Mata failed to wake Mata Nui on time, and thus there were still Matoran outside on the islands of Mata Nui and Voya Nui. The lightning acts like a fail-safe to create new Toa outside the robot in case they are ever needed.

 

Fulfilling your destiny does not mean you cannot be revived. We have seen plenty of characters fulfill their destiny and yet live on. The point of the red star is basically that even Mata Nui is not self-sustaining if it loses too many beings (to an accident, say), the same way you could not survive if you lost too many blood cells without replacing them. We haven't SEEN Lhikan alive again, that doesn't mean he isn't.

 

Note that although this was the purpose of the RS, since the Sendback wasn't working, Mata Nui had to settle for just making new beings to replace those that died, which works, but apparently is more of a drain on "resources." (What resources is unclear, but it seems to be mentally taxing, rather than being about physical materials since the RS itself will make new bodies if needed, and other quotes make it clear it's the memories and related things that matter.)

 

Rahi can be revived, since they play a role in Mata Nui's functioning as well.

 

The Kanohi Tryna, the Mask of Reanimation, brings you back right away with all the damage -- red star takes a good deal longer, but repairs the damage.

 

Note that the "good deal longer" here includes the time delay before disappearing. And this quote and others here about Jaller seem to mean that the time delay's purpose is to give others a chance to revive their friends by other means without having to involve the RS (though the Tryna is not a true revival). Although, it's possible the waiting is just a waiting list due to practical reasons (or both), especially if multiple beings throughout the MU are dying at the same time and can only be teleported up one at a time.

 

Does the Red Star always work in reviving every dead being with an intact body or is it selective about what it chooses to resurrect? Rahi too?

No, it works in general, everyone has some role to play in the universe.

 

Can you name anyone other than Mavrah who [is] alive in the Red Star?

Lhikan.

Basically, anyone whose body was not disintegrated would be there.

So no Matoro, no Brotherhood members, nobody who had no body left

 

How long ago was the Red Star broken? From the start, or was it due to the Great Cataclysm?

It stopped working quite a while before the events of Mystery of Metru Nui, which is why no one was looking around for Lhikan to come back.

This means that the absolute latest date, after which we can be certain nobody was teleported back into the MU, was 1000 YA (Years Ago by biosector01's reckoning, or Year 99,000 after the Shattering / Launch). By comparison, Nikila and the rest of Lesovikk's team died in what I call Year 1 (100,000 YA). So, it's easy to see why we wonder if they might have gone back to the MU (assuming they weren't disintegrated).

 

Does this mean there are two Hydraxons alive now?

Yes, one up there, one down here.

That's because the "second" is really the Po-Matoran named Dekar, transformed by the Mask of Life to forget who he really is, and given the memories and shape of Hydraxon.

 

[Correction from earlier draft: I had said we're not sure if Hydraxon is still alive in story-present, but "are" and "now" would confirm it I guess.]

 

Can the Red Star still teleport the dead MU inhabitants to it now that the MU is effectively destroyed, and if not, how was it able to reach the Matoran in canisters in Voya Nui to turn them into the Toa Inika?

It can't teleport right now, because the system is broken. As for the Inika, that wasn't teleportation at work, that was electrical discharge.

This quote is confusing. Did Greg misunderstand the question and mean that nothing can be teleported back? Or by "system" did he mean a system in the MU itself is what "sends"? If the latter, then nobody could be revived (not normally anyways) by the RS since Teridax's defeat. And it would also strongly imply that to be revived you had to be detected by the giant robot's systems and "sent", rather than detected by the RS and "brought." Unless the RS's "bringing" system has coincidentally broken too...

 

A major question has been how far away from the domes you can be and still be revived. A common (apparent) misconception is that you have to be in the "Matoran Universe" and that this is only the domes (or some other definition that doesn't include the entire robot interior).

 

Hydraxon's confirmed revival in the Pit (just inside the outer skin of the giant robot, usually not considered part of the "Matoran Universe, though that's still an open semantic question) appears to confirm that anywhere inside the robot is fair game. (Unless the Pit counts as "MU" since Mata Nui probably knew about it and could program the system to include it?)

 

What about just outside but in indirect physical contact with it? That would include anyone touching the land of Mata Nui (island), Voya Nui (via the stone cord), Mahri Nui, and the seafloor around Mahri Nui. And what about someone simply "near the giant robot"? We don't yet know, however, some upcoming quotes here seem to virtually confirm Mata Nui island is fair game at least.

 

Is there any kind of injury that would bar a being from being revived by the Red Star? Like perhaps a missing limb?

No, there simply has to be a body left to work with.

Again, this quote is of little help to the big question of "what about the brain?" In the context of a missing arm or leg as the question's example, "no" might not be relevant to the brain. But in the context of "any" injury, "no" would seem to mean even a disintegrated brain but intact torso (or even disintegrated everything but one finger!) would work... which seems doubtful, but we don't know how it works, so who knows?

 

One speculation that's been floated is that some kind of backup of memories is stored in every protodermis molecule of a person's body, but this seems unlikely. However, if so, might it imply that some disintegrations like Carapar's odd one might still be fair game? (I kind of hope not, as it's much less confusing to be able to answer questions with "if disintegrated, gone".)

 

The following two quotes are multiple answers but part of ongoing conversations:

 

Now what if someone with teleportation powers (like Brutaka with a functional Olmak or Botar) died could they escape the Red Star back to the Matoran Universe?

Arguably, yes

 

So does that mean Botar was too damaged to be saved by the Red Star?

No, it simply means that either a ) he reappeared someplace we have not seen him yet, or ...b ) He was sufficiently messed up by the experience of dying and coming back that he doesn't know where he is and isn't focusing on getting back.

 

Does option B often happen to people? How aware are they of their circumstances?

Well, the folks encountered on the red star thus far did not seem too together to me.

Greg's audio interview with TTV revealed that his idea for the RS's revivals was basically to tell a "zombie story in space" (if memory serves; that's not neccessarily an exact quote and the interview is way too long for me to re-play to get the exact quote). This could imply many, perhaps even most, have been seriously altered by the revival process. Mavrah seemed physically okay, from what little description we got, but is he mentally okay? Or, does the quality of the revivals vary?

 

What was the purpose of the red star on the map that Tarduk was following in the web serial?

It marked the location of a Great Being facility, the one in which the RS was built.

 

Okay, now what about the mental image of the Red Star that Tren Krom projected right before his death?

TK was killed by a Great Being. The RS image served two purposes -- to TK, it symbolized the Great Beings, and ..it was a bit of irony .. as a completely organic being, the RS could not bring him back

 

As well as the fact that he was on Spherus Magna and the RS could not have brought him back anyways?

Well, we don't know that.

The RS is keyed in to MU inhabitants.

We don't know the fact that he was no longer in the MU would have made a difference. Might have made a difference to his being sent back ...

But the RS isn't sending anyone back now anyway.

This is the key quote to the big debate about whether what matters is "being inside the MU" or "being an MU being". Greg clearly confirms that being a native to the MU is most important. But even he is unsure as to whether being "not in" would matter. IMO, given the complexity of the previous Bionicle story and how much of it technically took place outside what may or may not be the proper definition of "Matoran Universe", Greg was very wise to be cautious here.

 

My guess is that it's a finer point that can only be pinned down after careful analysis of preceding story to make sure the answer won't contradict canon, and Greg may not have time to review everything, so we might not get an answer. Unless! Unless we figure out an answer that would work and Greg canonizes it (after all, it's the sort of thing we should be able to solve with thorough research, since the answer can only be "yes or no").

 

Work towards that so far has been unclear, but my proposal would be that anyone (of the MU beings) in close range of the MU (say about the distance of the height of the head) can be revived (due to being sensed by a system that is run in the Core, and is now disabled by that being smashed in the final battle), but that some things can interfere with the death sensor, similar to the many explanations in Star Trek of why their "transporters" won't work.

 

Specific explanations of what interfered in what case can be worked out later, if needed. (Question: can we get a complete list of who, like Alternate Tuyet, this would apply to? Weren't there other corpses in or near the old Pit too? Or something? I forget and out of time to check.)

 

At the very least, unless Greg has (perhaps on LEGO.com) given a later answer, this quote does disprove the claims by some that it's confirmed that beings outside the MU can't be revived.

 

What is the nature of Toa/Spirit stars inside and outside of the MU? [Toa Mata stars were outside the MU.But the Toa Metru spirit stars were inside the MU.]

The inside ones I feel are pretty easy ...I always felt they were some sort of electrical impulse from MN's system ...As far as the outside ones go ...I would think there would have to be some connection to the red star, since it was connected to his system at least peripherally.

 

This may mean there is a fifth purpose to the RS -- generating illusions of Spirit Stars. Or Spirit Stars may be energy spheres projected by Toa, and the RS may simply sort of anchor them in place... Or Greg might change his mind and say it has nothing to do with them.

 

Was Gaardus resurrected by Red Star, or did he originally end up there some other way?

I would think he would have had to be resurrected to be there.

 

How did MU inhabitants react to dead corpses disparitions? What was their interpretation of that?

They were becoming one with the Great Spirit

 

Is that what happened to Jaller on Mata Nui, then?

Yes, basically what Takutanuva did was what the red star is supposed to do.

I take this to mean that Jaller's old body did not go up to the RS, and he was revived within the time delay before he would have been. This would mean 1) There aren't two Jallers like there are two Hydraxons, and 2) it would confirm that Jaller could have been revived by the RS, even though he was "not inside the robot" (see also the next quote for that point).

 

Note that it's also confirmed that Toa Takanuva was killed and revived too; the book version had him just escaping the door at the last second, but Greg has confirmed he died and was revived. [I actually have a theory in this part of my upcoming Bionicle retelling related to all this; stay tuned for that story to learn it! :P I won't post it here so I don't rob my story of all the fun, heh. But after that part is posted, note to self to edit in a link here for those interested.]

 

Is it reasonable to assume that the MU inhabitant's pattern is stored in a buffer in the Great Spirit robot which allowed for Jaller's ressurection?

Since these beings were created within the Great Spirit, yes, there would be a record of their creation which is shared with the RS

I'm not sure Greg understood that question right. "Pattern stored in a buffer" appears to be a direct allusion to Star Trek transporters, and would seem to imply the question is asking if the dead person is "absorbed by the giant robot" like being converted into energy in a Star Trek teleporter, then beamed to the RS, and materialized up there. If that is so, then it would confirm Jaller's revival was related to the RS revival system, but the "energy" was just intercepted part-way, rather than being sent to the RS.

 

However, regardless of what the questioner meant, this at least gives as an intriguing addition to all the previous facts -- the RS can apparently get the full information of what a being's personality and body were when they were first made, perhaps even if the brain was destroyed and there are no memories? So, in extreme cases, perhaps a being whose brain is crushed can still be revived, but with a total mindwipe.

 

Some beings require masks to function, such as Matoran and Turaga. When they die, their bodies are teleported to the Red Star. Are they given masks in the Red Star?

Yes

Prior to this reveal, Greg said that mask-wearers who died (without the masks being smashed) would have an "imprint" of them on the mask, and they could be revived purely through the mask. We assumed this was all that happened with Jaller for years. After a while the imprint fades away.

 

How that relates to all this is unknown. It may open the possibility for a "two copies" situation; what if Lhikan's mask was later used this way, after he'd already been revived on the RS? Or, perhaps the "fading" time is the same length as the "send/bring" teleporter's time limit? Or something?

 

Also, IF a destroyed brain means no memories, but the mask is intact, might the RS actually ever teleport up the mask to make sure memories are given? Or, do masks always go up unless somebody takes them off before the time limit? These probably only scratch the surface of unanswered questions.

 

Do you remember what Kopaka saw in the Red Star that freaked him out? Was it the dead bodies? Someone he knew?

I don't remember off the top of my head

Presumably it was either dangerous bad guys, maybe like Sidorak (description remembered from the Turaga's tales?), or "zombies". Or both.

 

Do the "revived" MU Residents in the Red Star have any memories of their "previous life"? (to simplify: do they remember anything in their life before they "died"?)

They should remember everything. That's the intent. But the process of being brough back to life tends to be very traumatic, so it takes a while to get one's thoughts unscrambled

Another possibility related to the mask questions above is that there is an intangible energy spirit for every MU being, and it either attaches to a dead body or to a mask, and is it this that is revived. The absence of a body OR mask would make it dissipate rapidly like antidermis that's spread out really fast. If so, then perhaps memories can be restored every time regardless of the status of the brain, and the MU records Greg mentioned are only for reconstructing seriously damaged bodies.

 

Even prior to the RS reveal, some theorized that the imprint fading meant a spirit was being detached from the body. Perhaps this solves some of the above questions by meaning that when Lhikan's spirit left the mask, it jumped back to his body, and then the body teleported. So, the attaching to the mask would define the "last chance for other methods of revival" time. And if there is no body, there's nothing to jump back to and the teleporter can't grab the spirit. It is possible, given the stable energy things we've seen in Bionicle before, especially the Kanohi Iden.

 

How was the Red Star's teleportation broken?

I don't have specifics on that

Wouldn't it be cool if some villain did it on purpose? :P

 

Personally, I wonder if the real problem with the sendback is a software glitch (or intentional software hack???), rather than a hardware issue. The Kestora may thus have been looking for the solution in all the wrong places -- repair hardware, dissect brains... when they really needed a geek. I say this because it would explain how the power of teleportation is still working, yet only in one direction. Of course, given the Kestora's apparent insanity it could also just be that they keep repairing it wrong. Or are creepy murderers who just like having excuses to dissect brains. (All three theories could be true at the same time, of course. :P)

 

Well, that's all, from Erebus's topics anyways; if anyone has any new ones lemme know! Source topics are all linked here.

 

 

Edit: Several updates from Greg's LEGO.com topic, courtesy of JAG18, are in this post below, with some comments by me about what they apparently mean to the various questions in this post.


Edited by bonesiii, Mar 09 2014 - 04:04 PM.

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#2 Offline Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 07:00 PM

I'll have to greatly thank you for this topic, Bonesiii. This kind of stuff is exactly what this forum needs in my opinion.

 

Just want to quick say in regards to the length of the interview: If anyone doesn't want to have to listen through the whole thing, or try guessing where to go via skipping, there are time stamps in the description of the video that can help people skip to parts they want to hear. If my memory serves me, the Red Star stuff would be around the 1 hour, 9 minute mark.

 

As far as all this Red Star stuff goes, I'm interested in this theory regarding the brain. I've never thought of that, and it'd explain a lot. I've had many a debate with Kahinuva regarding wither or not the MU acts as more of a beacon, a kind of signal enhancer for dead beings. If that were the case, I personally feel that since it's broken down and what not, then no one from the MU who dies can be sent up. I wonder how many people in the MU are aware of it's purpose, and would find this kind of unusual.

 

Once again, thank you!

 

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#3 Offline BobaFett2

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 07:15 PM

We know that the Glatorian in the robot are not revived - I assume that the reason is the same as for Tren Krom.

 

Also, do we know what Velika's plans are anyway? Is he confirmed to be the killer person?

 

Likewise, the fact that Likhan's team and the other earlier Toa teams were never seen again indicates that the Red Star may NEVER have functioned.


Edited by BobaFett2, Dec 04 2013 - 07:37 PM.

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#4 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 07:39 PM

I'll have to greatly thank you for this topic, Bonesiii. This kind of stuff is exactly what this forum needs in my opinion.

 

Just want to quick say in regards to the length of the interview: If anyone doesn't want to have to listen through the whole thing, or try guessing where to go via skipping, there are time stamps in the description of the video

Right! Thanks for reminding me; I was going to mention this but I forgot. *edits*

 

And you're welcome. ^_^

 

If that were the case, I personally feel that since it's broken down and what not, then no one from the MU who dies can be sent up.

 Seems to make sense to me.

 

I wonder how many people in the MU are aware of it's purpose, and would find this kind of unusual.

Another major unanswered question I should probably add to the list. Although one thing that seems certain is that by the time of the Great Cataclysm, if it was ever known about, it's been forgotten or relegated to mere myth. When Lhikan or Mavrah died, the Toa's reactions were just like if they thought they were definitely gone for good.

 

I have wondered before if it never actually worked, so Lesovikk was devastated by his team's death because he didn't know about it at all, and nobody ever found out. Probably nobody was ever supposed to know how it worked (that the RS was involved; the normal people in the MU didn't even know about the satellite until the Matoran of Metru Nui went outside after the GC), but I get the sense the Great Beings just figured people would catch on that revivals happen, since they didn't realize the beings were fully sapient.

 

Also, do we know what Velika's plans are anyway? Is he confirmed to be the killer person?

It's confirmed, and Greg said he was "housecleaning" and "eliminating wild cards". See here. Other answers related to Velika are in the other Erebus topics linked to from the Greg Compendium.

 

Likewise, the fact that Likhan's team and the other earlier Toa teams were never seen again indicates that the Red Star may NEVER have functioned.

Others, yes, but Lhikan's team was murdered very recently -- not long before he was, so roughly 1000 YA (Years Ago) or Year 99,000 since Launch. So, his team specifically is no good for evidence of it ever working. Lesovikk's team would be, except for the open question of whether the Zyglak used their disintegration spears on them.


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#5 Offline Chro

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 08:23 PM

... indicates that the Red Star may NEVER have functioned.

Do you mean it never revived anyone? Or it never sent anyone back at all?

(I'm assuming you mean the latter... just checking before I respond to it. :P)


Edited by Chro, Dec 04 2013 - 08:23 PM.

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#6 Offline Baron Von Nebula

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 08:30 PM

How come all Makuta are confirmed as unable to be revived?  Has it been confirmed that no Makuta died before their transformation to a gaseous state?


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#7 Offline BobaFett2

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 08:31 PM

 

... indicates that the Red Star may NEVER have functioned.

Do you mean it never revived anyone? Or it never sent anyone back at all?

(I'm assuming you mean the latter... just checking before I respond to it. :P)

 

 

The latter.


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#8 Offline Chro

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 08:36 PM

Ah, okay. Yeah, I don't know about that, I thought that it was confirmed that it used to work (even if it was never seen working in-story)... :notsure:

 

 

How come all Makuta are confirmed as unable to be revived?  Has it been confirmed that no Makuta died before their transformation to a gaseous state?

It's certainly plausible that one or more could've died somehow... do we know just when they transitioned to their... gassy form?


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#9 Offline Gengar

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 08:45 PM

Well, this summed up some of my questions. I feel that out of all of the mysteries in the Bionicle universe, this one is the strangest.


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#10 Offline turtleman

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 08:48 PM

How come all Makuta are confirmed as unable to be revived?  Has it been confirmed that no Makuta died before their transformation to a gaseous state?

I think that the transformation occured before the whole evil Makutas thing. If thats right then who would try to kill them? If they were serving their purpose of making rahi then they would just go about their business uninterupted.


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#11 Offline Wazdakka

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 09:15 PM

Great topic to have all the Red Star info in one place. Thanks bonesiii!

I'm just curious - where exactly did we learn some of these details, such as the fact that it clips on like a backpack to the Great Spirit Robot? 


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#12 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Dec 04 2013 - 09:16 PM



How come all Makuta are confirmed as unable to be revived?  Has it been confirmed that no Makuta died before their transformation to a gaseous state?

I was going to mention that but decided it would be too much detail for one post. There have been two major rounds of Makuta dying -- the first was those who didn't side with Teridax when he took over the Brotherhood, and the second all the deaths related to Teridax taking over the Matoran Universe (other Makuta don't fare well when that guy advances!). I believe Greg's confirmation is mainly for the second group. Whether all the others are permanently dead, I don't know.

 





How come all Makuta are confirmed as unable to be revived?  Has it been confirmed that no Makuta died before their transformation to a gaseous state?

I think that the transformation occured before the whole evil Makutas thing. If thats right then who would try to kill them? If they were serving their purpose of making rahi then they would just go about their business uninterupted.

I'm pretty sure it was after Terry took over the Brotherhood. So the ones killed by Gorast and Icarax [I guess it was just those two... anywho] would have still been biomechanical... I think... *consults timeline to be sure*

 

Cited under 79,100 YA (Year 20,900):

 


By the will of the Convocation, Teridax becomes the new leader of the Brotherhood and begins enacting his master plan.

 

Teridax orders Miserix's execution at the hands of Makuta Spiriah and Krika. Unbeknownst to him, Krika disobeys this command and traps the Makuta on the island of Artidax instead. Over the course of a year, Gorast and Icarax kill all the Makuta who originally sided with Miserix during the Convocation.

 

Then cited under "between 40,000 and 30,000" YA (between Year 60,000 and 70,000):

 

The Makuta complete their evolution from biomechanical lifeforms into beings of energy. The Nynrah Ghosts are called in to modify the Makuta's armor.

That's quite a long time after, actually. So the ones killed after the Convocation were all still biomechanical. Of course, we don't know how they were killed.

 

Worth mentioning that Mutran's revelations from Tren Krom happened just before the Convocation, so Teridax might have been aware of the RS (or the possibility of revival in general at least) and made sure Gorast and Icarax did a thorough job killing the dissenters. Assuming Tren Krom would have any reason to know about that system, and assuming that Terry was able to get that out of Mutran, considering it drove Mutran insane (but evidently able to give detailed accounts due to the Mutran Chronicles).

 

I'm just curious - where exactly did we learn some of these details, such as the fact that it clips on like a backpack to the Great Spirit Robot?

I believe that one was from Greg's answers on the old forum. A search in fishers' archives (linked also in the Greg Compendium) could answer that. Others were revealed in-story (sources listed at the end of the BS01 page).


Edited by bonesiii, Dec 04 2013 - 09:52 PM.

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#13 Offline ~The 1st Shadow~

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Posted Dec 05 2013 - 03:32 AM


 

Can the Red Star still teleport the dead MU inhabitants to it now that the MU is effectively destroyed, and if not, how was it able to reach the Matoran in canisters in Voya Nui to turn them into the Toa Inika?

It can't teleport right now, because the system is broken. As for the Inika, that wasn't teleportation at work, that was electrical discharge.

This quote is confusing. Did Greg misunderstand the question and mean that nothing can be teleported back? Or by "system" did he mean a system in the MU itself is what "sends"? If the latter, then nobody could be revived (not normally anyways) by the RS since Teridax's defeat. And it would also strongly imply that to be revived you had to be detected by the giant robot's systems and "sent", rather than detected by the RS and "brought." Unless the RS's "bringing" system has coincidentally broken too...

 

I would say that makes sense, the MU sending the deceased up to the RS. Like how if you have a problem with your body, you go to the doctor and tell them the issue; they don't come to you already knowing what's wrong.

 

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#14 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Dec 17 2013 - 06:46 PM

Someone in another topic brought up the question of whether MU beings who die outside the MU can be revived, and at least one person replied with the misconception combated in this topic's firstpost (that we know either way, and came down on the side of "no" -- but the truth is we do not know, or if we do nobody has yet shown me the official quote confirming it... ;)). Evidently even stating it clearly in this official topic's firstpost (though admittedly amidst a lot of other stuff) hasn't defeated the misconception, and since my reply to that post sums up the reasons we don't know concisely I wanted to link it here for future reference:

 

Why we don't know whether MU beings dying outside the MU get revived by RS.

 

Specifically it replies to a fallacious misunderstanding of a BS01 quote that has been done several times in recent months (BS01 only confirms that beings inside the MU are revived; it does not say "only".) I'll add this link to the firstpost somewhere...


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#15 Offline SilverCor

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Posted Dec 19 2013 - 05:38 PM

 


About the two teleporters, we don't know that there is a Bringup teleporter in the Red Star, only that a teleporter sends them there; if it is a Sendup that is in the Matoran Universe, which seems implied by several of Greg's quotes as discussed in my comments in the official topic's firstpost, then the Kestora wouldn't have access to the one that's working.

 


I would say that makes sense, the MU sending the deceased up to the RS. Like how if you have a problem with your body, you go to the doctor and tell them the issue; they don't come to you already knowing what's wrong.


I would think a "Sendup" device being in the MU to be the case (because the Kestora would have disabled it if they were sick of people getting stuck, right?), and quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if the "Sendback" one was in the MU as well. The Kestora don't seem to understand that part very well, or they would have mentioned the teleporters (but that could just be chalked up to insanity/faulty-memory, I guess), and speak to Pohatu and Kopaka as if they expect everyone to just go ~*poof*~. "Okay, our job is done; why haven't you all magic'd away yet." And if the Sendback device was on the RS, wouldn't the Kestora have fixed it long ago? (Assuming they weren't already insane by then, of course.) 

And actually, what if there are more than two teleporters? For example, maybe all of the main islands have one, and each are programed to activate when certain individuals die. This might also explain why some bodies are never teleported -- because A) the teleporter they're closest to doesn't recognize them, B) the "receiver" on the RS for that island is down, or C) sometimes a person's connection with the teleporter is damaged. When a dead individual is repaired, their connection with their "home" is re-established and they are sent back there specifically. Perhaps there aren't any teleporters on the RS at all -- which might explain why the Kestora haven't fixed them -- and if there are, they're all busted and the Kestora are simply that cuckoo. 

 

(Almost posted all of this to the wrong thread. >__> )


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#16 Offline bohrokmaster

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Posted Dec 21 2013 - 07:51 AM

I think what Kopaka saw from the Red star were the Visorak (The spiders from Bionicle 3: Web of Shadows)?


Edited by bohrokmaster, Dec 22 2013 - 05:57 PM.

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#17 Offline fishers64

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Posted Dec 21 2013 - 10:46 PM

I think what Kopaka saw from the Red star were Visorak spiders?

That's just a theory, but that's a pretty good one considering that a bunch of Visorak were killed at Artidax. 

 

They may not have been revived though. 


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#18 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Dec 22 2013 - 02:39 AM

I do strongly suspect Visorak were a large part of the "zombies" up there, and Kopaka might have seen a lot of them in the group he was reacting to there. Spiders are pretty creepy as-is -- zombie spiders? Yikes!


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#19 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 09 2014 - 04:03 PM

*allows self to double post*

 

Jag has collected a bunch of useful new Greg quotes from the LEGO.com topic. These are the ones relevant to the Red Star (first post has been edited to reflect the updates and will link to this post):

 

Q) Was Sidorak revived on Red Star, as he was beaten to death by Keetongu?
A) Yes. Method of death doesn't really matter
That bit about method of death not mattering is curious, considering what he said about Matoro and the Makuta. I interpret this as meaning as long as there's physical stuff left, the state of the brain is irrelevant. This probably is meant to imply that the theory is correct of the "essence" remaining attached to any physical remains for a while is what the Red Star works with; that it teleports up the remains and then gets the spirit from them. So, with beings whose body is entirely destroyed, I assume that does still matter, but because the spirit isn't anchored to anything so can't be brought in to the Red Star.

So, questions like Lesovikk's team, if they were killed by the disintegration staffs, may still be open.
 

Q) How about Dark Hunter Guardian, who was killed by being pulled underground by Teridax?

A) Yes
 
Q) Why exactly are the Kestora in the Red Star in the first place? …Also, was the reason why Kopaka saw so many gruesome things inside the star due to the reason that perhaps the Kestora did what they said they would do to and tried disecting various beings to find out why they could not go back to Mata Nui?
A) The Kestora were basically the crew of the red star. As for Kopaka, if you saw a bunch of people you knew to be dead up and walking around, you would be freaked out too.
This seems to mean that it was more about who Kopaka saw than the state they were in. I had suspected this, but it may still be a little of both. I would guess that in general, then, they are physically intact, but like Botar, not necessarily psychologically handling the transition well.
 

Q) If Lariska dies, will she get a new arm on the Red Star?

A) Most likely, yes.
 
Q) Can the Kestora wear Kanohi?
A) Good question.  I would not rule that possibility out

 

Q) Does the Red Star also fix mental problems when resurrecting, or just physical ones?

A) Physical

 

Q) How do the Red Star know when somebody is dead and must be teleported? Is there some kind of marker inside the MUians? Their lifestones, maybe?
A) …I would think there would be a number of ways it could know, for example, heat signatures. Lifestones is another possibility.
I do not know what these "lifestones" they are referring to are. But I guess Greg was only saying it's a direction he wouldn't rule out the story taking, not that it actually exists in Bionicle... Though, the questioner seemed to think it was already a thing in the story. Maybe something in the "hearts"? Perhaps even a variety of lightstone that handles the blinking light?

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#20 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted Mar 09 2014 - 04:38 PM

Interesting that Greg confirmed "if Lariska dies, she will get a new arm". That implies that either the RS can still pick up dead MU beings from Spherus Magna, or Greg slipped up with the tenses.


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#21 Online JAG18

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Posted Mar 09 2014 - 05:41 PM

Umm...bonesiii, I just thought I'd mention that I still have a lot of quotes from the topic and about ten or so that involve the Red Star.  Would you like to see the other Red Star quotes?  


Edited by JAG18, Mar 09 2014 - 10:00 PM.

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#22 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 09 2014 - 06:37 PM

Sure, Jag. :)


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#23 Offline Zox Tomana

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Posted Mar 09 2014 - 06:52 PM

I do not know what these "lifestones" they are referring to are. But I guess Greg was only saying it's a direction he wouldn't rule out the story taking, not that it actually exists in Bionicle... Though, the questioner seemed to think it was already a thing in the story. Maybe something in the "hearts"? Perhaps even a variety of lightstone that handles the blinking light?

Maybe he meant the Heartlight?? I could easily see that as a beacon. I think we've only seen it blinking when an MU Inhabitant is dying. Think Lhikan's death scene in LoMN.

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#24 Online JAG18

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Posted Mar 09 2014 - 07:27 PM

Red Star Quotes:

 

Q) Greg, what would happen if a revived being on the Red Star was killed?  

A) That is actually a great question, Daler, and I have a weird answer for you. No. The red star's sensors were programmed to sweep Mata Nui -- not its own interior. So if a revived being is killed WHILE ON THE RED STAR, the machinery won't know it and they will not be revived, The only way revival would happen would be if someone set things moving  manually.

Page 169 Post 10

 

Q) So, if the revived being was killed and then taken to the remains of the Great Spirit robot, would he/she/it be revived?  Also, how would one set things in motion manually?  Would they take the being to the revival machinery?

A) Well, they can be revived within the red star, if they are taken to the appropriate place inside of it. That opens the second problem -- if the teleportation does get fixed, there is no more Mata Nui robot to transport them back to.

Page 170 Post 1

 

Q) I mean, Gaardus got down, so couldn't other beings?  Unless, of course, only flying creatures could get down.

A) We don't know the circumstances of Gaardus' return, or how that was effected.

Page 170 Post 13

 

Q) Also, does the Red Star revive rahi?

A) I am going to say no, because the Makuta determine how many Rahi are needed and Rahi are specialized as species but usually not as individuals. Having too many Rahi of one type could end up being a problem, so having an automatic return program might not be the best idea.

Page 170 Post 13

 

Q) …If deceased beings died of old age and were repaired on the red star in their aged states they would die again soon after their return. Are they repaired to their freshly created state, their peak condition or their state before their death.

A) You raise an interesting point. I don't think old age is an issue, because dying of old age comes down to parts breaking down. But a new body is not going to have broken down parts, anymore than it would have the wounds of someone who died by violence. It's like putting a new engine in your car ... if you have taken care of the rest of it, you basically have a new car.

Page 172 Post 9

 

Q) What did Kopaka see in the red star that made him so.. Worried?

A) Well, since the story stopped there, we don't know what Kopaka saw yet.

Page 173 Post 7

 

Q) Could the revived being be brought back in its original intended state, if the mutation proved to be a detriment to the universe within the robot? For example, at the end of the film Bionicle: Mask of Light Takanuva was brought back to his Toa state after fusing with Makuta. Rather than being revived in his transformed state he was reverted to his Toa form, which in the end proved necessary for the well-being of the universe.

A) Takanuva is not a good example, because what had happened there was that the fusion had ruptured, so he already was Takanuva. I believe the kestora work off the body they are given, otherwise why would they need a body at all?

Page 173 Post 13

 

Q) …If Botar has the power of teleportation, then how come he didn't just teleport off the red star when he died?

A) Could have been a range issue, but more likely, the fact that returnees on the red star seem to be pretty disoriented. So he may not have felt confident about making that long a jump without being able to see where he was teleporting to -- and he couldn't do it as a series of short jumps.

Page 196 Post 4

 

Q) Also, if the Ignika countdown that was meant to end the Matoran Universe had reached zero, would everyone have died, only to be revived by the star, or would they stay dead?

A) No, the red star would not have revived them in this case. The point of the countdown was to wipe out the universe, not to do a reboot.

Page 218 Post 6

 

Q) Was Karzahni also revived by the star ?

A) No. Karzahni died on Spherus Magna. The red star is calibrated to transport beings up from the interior of the Mata Nui robot and return them there (when the system is fully operational), not from other worlds. If you die outside the robot, you're just dead.

Page 225 Post 9

 

Q) Also, if Karzahni died inside MU and his mask was broken, would he be given a new Olisi in red star ?

A) Yes

Page 225 Post 14

 

Q) Despite the fact that there was originaly only one Olisi in entire MU ?

A) You have to restore the person to the form they had when they died. That includes the mask.

Page 226 Post 5

 

Q) So, does that mean that if Carapar has been revived on the Red Star, he would be the only Barraki that can't breathe air? (Mata Nui changed granted the rest of the Barraki the ability to breathe air in Journey's End.)

A) Yes

Page 226 Post 14

 

Q) So does it mean that the kestora on red star are capable of creating any kanohi mask that ever existed in MU including the one-of-a-kind ones like avohkii or kraahkan ? 

A) They would have to be able to replicate masks to do their jobs, yes, but I doubt they are doing actual mask-making. I think it has to be something mechanical, and they would probably need the original mask or parts of it to be able to do it.

Page 227 Post 15

 

Q) Also, since the Red Star has air on it, what will Carapar breathe?

A) Given the number of sea Rahi there are in the MU, there must be water tanks or some other apparatus designed to let water-breathers survive

Page 228 Post 2

 

Q) I think they were intended to be revived by the red stars of their own universes. But can the red star teleport them across dimensions?

A) No

Page 228 Post 12

 

Q) Since the red star cannot teleport beings across dimensions, is that a reason why the remains of alternate Tuyet didn't desapeare ?

A) Yes. Someone who does not belong in the MU would not be recognized by the system.

Page 233 Post 3

 

Q) Do Kestora sometimes kill the beings inside the red star to make more space?

A) No. Kestora, unlike Matoran, are pretty much going to follow their original programming and they're not going to start improvising. If they were going to think on their feet, the logical thing to do would be to have shut down the teleportation system completely so no newcomers could be brought up when they could not be sent back. Instead, like a cog in a machine, the Kestora just keep doing their jobs despite heading for a disaster.

Page 233 Post 3

 

Q) Is the Red Star's orbit decaying so that it will eventually hit Spherus Magna?

A) Not to my knowledge

Page 235 Post 6

 

Q) Do you think Lesovikk's toa team would hate him if they got outta of the Red Star?

A) I would hope not. He made a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes.

Page 250 Post 2

 

Q) The Red Star brings the dead back to life, right? Wouldn't that mean that every Toa, Makuta, Visorak, etc. that's ever existed still be alive inside the Red Star?

A) Yes, theoretically

Page 250 Post 15

 

Q) Could the Red Star's teleportation system be fixed so that it would teleport individuals to the surface of Spherus Magna, instead of to the Mata Nui Robot?

A) Not impossible.

Page 252 Post 10

 

Q) If the Red Star was supposed to resurrect dead beings, then why do the Tryna and Mask of Undeath exist?

A) Consider the fact that those masks could have been made either a) before the red star was or b) made by beings who did not know what the red star did.

Page 256 Post 4

 

Q) If Sidorak gets out of the Red Star, would he be angry at Roodaka?

A) Wouldn't you be?

Page 256 Post 4

 

Concerning any contradictions to previous Greg quotes, I will simply say: 1) Don't shoot the messenger, and 2) Greg contradicted both established story and himself many times in the topic; hey the man can't be expected to be perfect.


Edited by JAG18, Mar 09 2014 - 09:36 PM.

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#25 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted Mar 09 2014 - 07:35 PM

Huh. Greg seems to be going back and forth on the subject of Rahi resurrection. One of his answers is a pretty well-thought-out "No", but then a few others indicate that "sea Rahi" and Visorak would have been revived.

 

Personally, I'd vote quality over quantity when judging the relative canonicity of answers -- my thinking is that Rahi wouldn't be revived.


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#26 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 09 2014 - 09:42 PM

I would assume Rahi can be revived, actually. His original answer confirmed they could. He probably just forgot about it due to being busy.

 

Anyways, this latest batch answers many questions. I'll work on trying to update the firstpost again in light of them. Was especially glad to see the confirmation about Alternate Tuyet. But still wondering what counts as "MU" since so much of the story took place on Mata Nui, Voya Nui, and Mahri Nui -- would beings dying there still be revived?

 

Glad to see confirmation again of his earlier statement about Botar, too. Psychological disorientation seems to be the direction he wanted to go in, and that IMO is veeeery good. =D

 

Also, major news in that he has now apparently officially weighed in against the idea that he earlier seemed to vaguely support, that an MU inhabitant outside the MU might be revived (normally); the "keyed in" quote. Now it looks like to be revived two things both need to happen: 1) Be an MU inhabitant (obviously this means no Agori, etc. but also means only an inhabitant of this universe, and possibly "inhabitant" could mean only sapient ones), 2) Be "in the Matoran Universe" (but where the boundary of that is, is still unclear -- it definitely doesn't include Spherus Magna though).

 

The second can be more properly clarified as "be in a place that a sensor is searching", which apparently includes a special location inside the RS and the entire interior of the robot, might possibly include Voya Nui etc. -- definitely includes the Pit due to the Hydraxon confirm -- and could theoretically later include all of SM if somebody modifies the system to do so.


Edited by bonesiii, Mar 09 2014 - 09:45 PM.

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#27 Online JAG18

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Posted Mar 10 2014 - 10:03 AM

I'm a little pressed for time right now, but I unearthed these Greg quotes, while I was going through my collection.  I must have either thought that these were old news or I just missed them in my first searches.  Anyway, here they are:

 

Q) Since the Red Star could resurrect characters but simply can't teleport them back, can someone like Botar's Replacement be able to teleport there and bring to Spherus Magna characters such as Nikila, The First Hydraxon, Lhikan, etc.?

A) Yes

Page 53 Post 10

 

Q) When Lhikan is brought back in the red star, is he a Matoran or a Turaga? Also with Nidhiki, since his transformations are artificial.

A) It's the body you had when you died.

Page 53 Post 10

 

Q) An Av-Matoran becomes a Bohrok when it dies, why isn't it just sent to the Red Star?

A) Because that is not the way the system is set up.

Page 64 Post 5

 

Q) As long as the Red Star is intact are all MU basicly unkillable?

A) It seems that way, although we don't know exactly what condition they come back in, and right now, none of them can bet back to the MU.

Page 66 Post 2

 

Q) Would carapar be in the Red Star?

A) Unknown. I have not made a determination about beings killed outside of the MU yet

Page 71 Post 14

 

Q) 99 dead Makuta will be given new armors in the Red Star?

A) Another good question. Given that the Makuta are pure energy inside of armor, it may not be possible to recreate them in the red star, because they have no physical bodies as such.

Page 71 Post 14

 

Q) [Would you have used the Red Star to resurrect Matoro?]

A) No, I would not have brought Matoro back. For the RS to work, they have to teleport your body up and then make you a new one. Matoro had no body left.

Page 74 Post 13

 

Q) …does the red star require your body so they can take your conscience and put it in a new body?

A) I think they require your body so they know what to replace it with.

Page 77 Post 3

 

Q) Why would it be fixed if it [RS Transporter] would teleport to a pile of metal?

A) You are assuming the Kestora know what happened to Mata Nui. Their focus is on fixing it, because that is what they are supposed to do.

Page 170 Post 13

 

Q) do you have to have a body to be in the red star, because I thought the red star gave you a new body, since matoro was energy when he died…I like to imagine he is there
A) Yes, you do, and no, he's not. The red star does give you a new body, but it is based on the template of your old one. If you have no body, there is nothing to contain your mental patterns and so no way to transfer them to a new body.

Page 191 Post 11

 

Q) When all of the Shadow Takanuvas were destroyed, did they get revived on the Red Star?

A) It's actually a good question, since the ST's were not originally intended to be a part of the universe, would the red star recognize them as such?

Page 228 Post 2

 

Q) Mata nui could he control the functions of the Red Star for reborn the death of the UM.

A) I think the RS is intended to operate independently.

Page 239 Post 1

 

Q) How do you suppose Dekar-Hydraxon will feel and/or react if he meets the original Hydraxon from the Red Star? And what about the original Hydraxon, meeting Dekar-Hydraxon?

A) It's an interesting question. Not sure if it will happen or not though, since even if the teleportation system gets fixed on the red star, Mata Nui no longer exists for it to beam back to.

Page 246 Post 15

 

And with that I'm confidant that the well of new Greg quotes has gone dry...at least where the Red Star is concerned, anyway.

 

Edit: It was easier to find Greg's answers to questions he didn't quote than I thought it would be.  

 

Q)I'm still confused about how the red star works.

A) Basically, when a BIONICLE character dies, its body gets teleported to the red star. A new body gets created and the brain patterns get transferred over, and they get sent back - -at least, that is how it is supposed to work.

Asked on Page 5 Post 2, answered Page 10 Post 4.


Edited by JAG18, Mar 10 2014 - 03:20 PM.

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#28 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted Mar 10 2014 - 10:58 AM

I would assume Rahi can be revived, actually. His original answer confirmed they could. He probably just forgot about it due to being busy.

 

On the contrary -- it's been a year or two since his original answer, which has given him time to think it over and possibly change his mind. By this, I don't mean Greg has hours of free time in which to sit around and specifically ponder BIONICLE questions, just that he might have reconsidered his initial answer.

 

Regardless, we now have a "Yes" and a "No" from Greg, each with arguments. The "Yes" argument is "Rahi have a role to play in the MU, so they are revived"; the "No" argument is "the Makuta are in charge of managing the Rahi population and figuring out how many the MU needs; additionally, the system wants to avoid overpopulation of Rahi, so they are not revived". I guess it really comes down to which argument makes more sense to you; personally, the negative answer seems a lot more sensible to me, so that's what I'm going with.

 

On another note, looking through JAG18's above post, it seems that someone on the LMB thread is pretty intent on Carapar being revived -- despite the fact that he was shattered/disintegrated by Tren Krom. Based on Greg's answers, it seems he's forgotten the nature of Carapar's death, and in one quote, it seems he's mixed up Carapar with Karzahni (the one where he says "I haven't figured out what happens to MUs who die on SM yet" -- even though a previous answer says they wouldn't be revived, so I guess we're in the same situation as the Rahi revival debate).


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#29 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 10 2014 - 12:21 PM

The first quote seems to imply Nikila & company are revived. I would still be cautious here though; has Greg remembered that they were killed by Zyglak, which have disintegration staffs? The quote may simply be about Botar-species teleportation and he didn't think about the examples given. (Hydraxon and Lhikan are both already confirmed alive though.)

 

The second is also confusing, because Nidhiki was killed to add mass to Teridax, so presumably that mass didn't then teleport up to the RS. Again it looks more like Greg was only concerned with how the RS works in his answer. I would still presume Nidhiki isn't up there. On the other hand, perhaps a component of him (like the "lifestone" if that refers to the heart/heartlight/whatever) was teleported up. :shrugs: But if Av-Matoran who turn to Bohrok can't be revived (which I expected), you'd think Nidhiki couldn't be either.

 

He clearly did forget how Carapar died; it was by Tren Krom when that monster was still trapped on that island inside the MU. The question with Carapar isn't about where he died but whether being disintegrated in the weird way he was (by Tren Krom) is still revivable.

 

I'm wondering if "disintegration" as in turning to dust IS still revivable, but Matoro 07 wasn't, because there wasn't even dust left. Carapar I think turned like into tiny crystal pieces or something like that? Also, Matoro 06 (on the 777 stairs) was revived, albeit not by the Red Star, but in a room with red lightstones probably implying it had a minor version of the RS revival system, and he had been disintegrated. It would be the easiest solution -- and then maybe the disintegration staffs of the Zyglak would be irrelevant.

 

But a dissipated gas like antidermis (it's not really "pure energy" like Greg said; the canon goes back and forth on calling it that but then at other times calling it gas, but there is a solution to that, too involved for this post) would likely not be revivable by that logic. So this seems to solve the issues.

 

It would also be easier to reconcile with the answers Greg has given that seem to say that MU inhabitants are nearly "unkillable". If this is the case then maybe everybody on the lists in the firstpost should be moved to the "believed to be revived" list (other than ones directly confirmed), except Matoro and the Makuta. :shrugs:

 

The quotes about needing the body also seem to be implying to me that the protodermis molecules of their bodies store data about the last known form of their body (except for amputations, like Lariska's). We already know they must store data on the original forms too because of the Mahritoran. So it seems they have a "DNA" equivalent that records every form. And the RS must read this information in order to make the new body.

 

(Also, the questioner who said "conscience" has clearly confused that term with the "consciousness" -- a common term that really means entire mind/identity including the subconscious, which contains the conscience. Common mistake, heh.)


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#30 Offline Toa Of Anarchy

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Posted Mar 10 2014 - 12:30 PM

As  related to number 3, why do you think the GB gave it that power?


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#31 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 10 2014 - 01:55 PM

Are you referring to the forming of constellations for prophecies? Well, star-illusions in Metru Nui's sky do something similar. It makes sense they might have a contingency for it to work on the surface realm too in case anybody did have to go there, just like the contingency to make Toa up there.


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#32 Offline Azani

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Posted Mar 10 2014 - 03:16 PM

Would it be correct to assume that the Karzahni plant was made from antidermis,  since it was created by Teridax? If so, it would have been made up of the same substance as all other rahi.

Rahi can be revived, since they play a role in Mata Nui's functioning as well.

And there was definitely at least one species of rahi as large as the Karzahni, assuming that the Karzahni was roughly the size of the Morbuzakh. This image from LoMN illustrates that: http://biosector01.c...in_the_Deep.PNG

Unless there was a limit to the size of the rahi that could be revived, could we say that the Karzahni plant is definitely revived also?

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#33 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 10 2014 - 03:22 PM

Rahi are protodermis, not antidermis. And Greg hasn't said that antidermis can't be revived, anyways, just not the gaseous form of it. Had Icarax not been vaporized, for example, and died normally, since the Ignika turned him biomechanical again, he might have been revivable.

 

Greg did say that totally organic beings couldn't be revived, though, as part of why Tren Krom wasn't (though now we can add being on SM at the time to that). I would guess that (size issues aside) both Karzahni and the Morbuzakh are out, for that reason. It seems the ceasing of functioning of some mechanical feature is what attracts the RS's attention for being teleported. Or something.

 

The size limit would be whatever is the largest room and body-making thingamabob. We have no way to know, but I'd guess unusually large Rahi are out, regardless of whether other Rahi are in.


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#34 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted Apr 25 2014 - 01:19 PM

Greg recently confirmed that the Red Star does not revive beings who died in the outer Pit or in Mahri Nui.

 

Off the top of my head, this means Reysa was not revived and is permanently dead. Poor Reysa. :(


Edited by Angel Bob, May 03 2014 - 09:27 AM.

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#35 Online Quisoves Pugnat

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Posted May 02 2014 - 08:42 PM

 I'm not certain whether this is new information or not, but I haven't seen it anywhere else.

Greg has recently given some clarification on the Red Star's functions. For a being to be revived, his AI needs to be downloadable, requiring his brain (Greg says head, but unless MU brains cannot be separated from their heads, I assume that he is referring to the brain)  the first time he dies. If he dies again, and a sufficient record exists from his previous revival, he may be revived sine brain, albeit with a gap in memory. Confirmed via pages 309 and 311, fourteenth and eighth posts from the top, respectively.


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#36 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 05 2014 - 02:40 PM

Thanks, QP. Here's those actual quotes (please remember, folks, to post the quotes, not just links, so there's at least one other copy of the quote in case something were to go wrong with the LEGO.com topic):
 

Q: In order to  someone from MU being revived in RS how much of their body is needed ? Is it like most of it, or some major parts like head or is a chunk of armor enough?

 

A: At least their head, because you need to be able to download their AI

Q: And what if just the head is destroyed and the rest of body was undamaged?

A: Then the only way to do it would be if the being had died before and there was some record they could work from, but then you would have had a big memory gap in the returned being

This answers some of what's said to be unknown in the firstpost, but I don't have time to review & edit it right now.


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#37 Online Quisoves Pugnat

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Posted May 05 2014 - 05:13 PM

Thanks, QP. Here's those actual quotes (please remember, folks, to post the quotes, not just links, so there's at least one other copy of the quote in case something were to go wrong with the LEGO.com topic):
 

Q: In order to  someone from MU being revived in RS how much of their body is needed ? Is it like most of it, or some major parts like head or is a chunk of armor enough?

 

A: At least their head, because you need to be able to download their AI

Q: And what if just the head is destroyed and the rest of body was undamaged?

A: Then the only way to do it would be if the being had died before and there was some record they could work from, but then you would have had a big memory gap in the returned being

This answers some of what's said to be unknown in the firstpost, but I don't have time to review & edit it right now.

Thanks Bonesii. Sorry about not putting the quotes there in the first place. I shall not make that mistake again.


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#38 Offline toa kopaka4372

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Posted Aug 03 2014 - 09:32 PM

The first post needs some updates. A lot of questions from a few months ago have recently been clarified by GregF (Rahi are not revived, Makuta are not revived, heads needs to be intact for revival, Nikila and the rest of her team are permanently dead, etc.)

I have a question for BS01 editors, and didn't know where else to ask it: why does the wiki list everyone, even random unnamed people, as revived if they're not confirmed dead? The policy seems to be "revived unless confirmed dead" but shouldn't it be "dead unless confirmed alive," or at least "unknown"? Nikila was listed as revived before she was confirmed dead by Greg, even though prior to that her status was unknown. People like Kodan and Naho died due to unknown causes, so they might or might not have been revived, and even if they were, couldn't they have been killed while on the Star?

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#39 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted Aug 04 2014 - 12:45 PM

BS01 is not perfect, and many of the editors who remain are a little eager sometimes to add information that has not directly been confirmed. I should know; I've done it myself, and been corrected for it. :P

 

The assumption, thus far, has been that anyone who died in the MU and wasn't disintegrated (or had their head crushed) would be revived. That's why lists of, say, Zyglak who were killed by Ehlek's species are listed as "(revived)", because it's reasonable to assume that Ehlek's kin weren't using disintegration weapons to kill them. But if it bothers you, feel free to ask Greg, and if he confirms something different, BS01 will quickly correct itself. ;)


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#40 Offline toa kopaka4372

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Posted Aug 05 2014 - 12:14 PM

BS01 is not perfect, and many of the editors who remain are a little eager sometimes to add information that has not directly been confirmed. I should know; I've done it myself, and been corrected for it. :P

 

The assumption, thus far, has been that anyone who died in the MU and wasn't disintegrated (or had their head crushed) would be revived. That's why lists of, say, Zyglak who were killed by Ehlek's species are listed as "(revived)", because it's reasonable to assume that Ehlek's kin weren't using disintegration weapons to kill them. But if it bothers you, feel free to ask Greg, and if he confirms something different, BS01 will quickly correct itself. ;)

I don't mean to criticize BS01's editors, who have worked hard to keep it updated and accurate, work which I appreciate. It just bothered me a bit because there are certain people, named and unnamed, whose deaths came about due to unknown causes, so whether or not they were revived is impossible to know. Even if we assume that everyone who wasn't disintegrated or had their head destroyed was revived, we don't know if they're still alive since the Kestora killed a lot of people on the Red Star after they were revived. But never mind, I won't go on about this. It was just something I was wondering about, and I don't presume to be more accurate that BS01's editors. 


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