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Elemental Kanohi, Kanohi Shape Questions and Toa Colours

elemental kanohi shape norik colour

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#1 Offline NuvaTube

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Posted Dec 21 2013 - 10:37 AM

A few questions on appearance, and Elemental Kanohi in the MU.

 

1. I was thinking about the few Elemental Kanohi, the Garai, Kraahkan and Avohkii. I just wondered, surely it's possibly (and in my opinion probable) that there are Kanohi of every Elemental Power? I don't see why not, what do you guys think? I guess certain ones like the Mask of Light and Mask of Shadows have to be special (I know they're unique), but as for Fire, Ice, Stone, Plasma, Plant-Life etc., why not?

 

Do these Elemental powers use different reserves (EE and Kanohi Energy)? So if you're Hewkii Mahri, and you exhaust your EE reserves, could you switch to Gravity powers (although I gotta agree with Bonesiii that the Garai is closer to weight control than Gravity control but CLOSE ENOUGH :P), or would you not be able to use the other power?

 

And how awesome would it be to have a Team of 6 Toa with 12 Elemental Powers?! XD

 

IMAGINE THIS PLUS SUVAS O_O

 

GOD-MODE ACTIVATED

 

 

2. Related to this:

 

- Elemental Kanohi don't come with Toa exclusives like Nova Blasts and Proto-caging, correct?

- An Elemental Kanohi will give you powers equal to a Toa (aside from Toa exclusives), no more, no less, correct?

 

With Psionics, we basically have two powers, but ones that are, in the Bionicle Universe, two sides of the same coin, like Electricity and Magnetism. These powers are Telekinesis and Telepathy. Incidentally, we have two separate Kanohi for these powers. So, I was wondering if they are individually more powerful than the Toa Elemental version. So, if a Toa of Psionics had a Telepath battle with a Toa using a Suletu, the Suletu wearer would win (not counting experience just potential of power reserves/limits, since a Psionics user is likely to be much more experienced), right? Would this be the same for a Telekinetic battle between a Ce-Toa and a Matatu wearer?

 

 

3. We have seen that Kanohi tend to be certain shapes, but characters like Norik (maybe Krakua) show that they have the shapes of other Kanohi. I was just thinking that surely this could be used to a tactical advantage. Say you're in a fight, and you have a Mask of Strength shaped like something like a Mask of Water Breathing. Your opponent might think "I don't know for sure what their mask power is but it's almost certainly a Mask of Water breathing because no one ever really bothers with different shaped masks." So they go in for some boxing type fighting, thinking they might have an advantage, at their great, pummeled expense and your victory when you super smash them. So in that kind of way, could shape variations be used to add tactical confusion to combat? I know I used to do this with my MoCs, since i would just use whichever mask looked right and then have whatever power I wanted with the character because I knew it wasn't limited like that.

 

 

4. Toa and such could surely paint themselves different colours if they wanted (obviously the Av-Matoran light frequency shifting trick is much more convenient), so in the expanded fiction, couldn't this also be used to tactical advantage: i.e,, disguising yourself as a being of another element, or painting your armour with camouflage patterns if you don't have a Huna handy/want to use a different mask, just to help you a bit if you want to be discrete.

 

I can see the last two questions.points being real points of trolling/confusion in canon, but surely it makes sense and is very possible? I'm ignoring things like "the have to be the right colour so kids buying he sets don't confuse them", I'm just thinking about what's possibru

 

*EDIT (Little side question: Couldn't Artahka, or anyone skilled/powerful enough, make lots of Masks of Shadows and Light?)

 

Tell me whatcha think guys! Cheers ^^


Edited by NuvaTube, Dec 21 2013 - 12:34 PM.

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#2 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Dec 21 2013 - 12:00 PM

1. I was thinking about the few Elemental Kanohi, the Garai, Kraahkan and Avohkii. I just wondered, surely it's possibly (and in my opinion probable) that there are Kanohi of every Elemental Power

Greg confirmed one could be made of each one. But it's not confirmed that one ever has been (though I'd expect so). There was also the elemental Kanoka of Fire Vakama had, which could have been made into a mask if he'd wanted.

 

To your next three questions, I'm not sure. I would guesstimate that the mask versions are always just basic sub-powers of the elements, but that they do at least grant Toa-like flexible control over the material/energy. (Unlike the Mask of Telekinesis for example which is a much more specific subpower of Psionics, or Night Vision of Light.) But the sheer power of them available is probably a lot less. I would think they have their own elemental energy system but it's probably just an automatic translation of "universal" mask power energy into EE that isn't noticeable to the Toa, so you would use the mask for medium or small effects for a few minutes then have to take a break, I'd think, to let the mask recharge.

 

With Psionics, we basically have two powers, but ones that are, in the Bionicle Universe, two sides of the same coin, like Electricity and Magnetism. These powers are Telekinesis and Telepathy.

I consider telepathy to be a form of telekinesis; basically you're moving energies around in a mind to send coded mental messages, much like moving around gears in a clockwork brain would cause different behavior by the clock-brain (and something similar but in reverse for reading a mind). But the summary you give works too. :P Also of course, all other elemental powers involve telekinesis of the element too.

 

These powers are Telekinesis and Telepathy. Incidentally, we have two separate Kanohi for these powers.

Make that three, at least -- Mind Control. Also some things that push things in more specific ways are likely also Psionics subpowers, like the Crast or the Hau.

 

So, I was wondering if they are individually more powerful than the Toa Elemental version.

I wouldn't say that, but rather easier, for the inexperienced. Those masks can only do the narrow version of the elemental control, so it's easier to avoid accidentally using the element in a different way (but of course if you needed to use it in a different way that would be bad in that situation). But for an experienced Ce-Toa, methinks there'd be little difference and their version is probably more powerful.

 

To shape confusion, that gets a simple yes. :P

 

Same to paint. No real room for "no" to be possible for either. Of course you're right that LEGO would very likely not sell a set in the "wrong" color (though they have with the masks), but storywise, it's perfectly valid.


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#3 Offline NuvaTube

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Posted Dec 21 2013 - 12:40 PM

 

These powers are Telekinesis and Telepathy. Incidentally, we have two separate Kanohi for these powers.

Make that three, at least -- Mind Control. Also some things that push things in more specific ways are likely also Psionics subpowers, like the Crast or the Hau.

 

The Hau is Telekinetic? Wow...I always pictured a force field thingy...I never pictured it was a telekinetic barrier. How does that work against energy attacks then? I figured Telekinesis was for moving things with mass...


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#4 Offline Omega12

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Posted Dec 21 2013 - 01:54 PM

I'm fairly sure the Hau is not telekinetic.

The movies indicate a bubble around the user, not just something moving around the user.

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#5 Offline NuvaTube

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Posted Dec 21 2013 - 04:42 PM

I'm fairly sure the Hau is not telekinetic.

The movies indicate a bubble around the user, not just something moving around the user.

Ah, I think there was a topic about this. It showed that the Hau's force field doesn't act like a solid "bubble", since I think you can still attack from in the inside (so you can shoot out but people can't shoot in at you). I think it was about whether the Hau could stop fall damage, and that if it was like a solid bubble it would still do damage to you. Ah, can someone enlighten me? D:


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#6 Offline Katuko

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Posted Dec 21 2013 - 05:06 PM

The Hau's force field keeps away anything that the wearer wants to keep away. To that extent, it is a solid energy field to anything that threatens you - whether that be swords, elemental attacks, lava or a living being - but your own attacks can still pass through from the inside. If the shield is activated when the enemy is very close to you, the old Flash animations handily illustrated that the shield activation is forceful enough to toss someone away. The Crast is a more specific Mask of Repulsion, though. You can't fly or save yourself from a fall by using a Hau on the ground. You can fling someone away with a well-timed activation, but I believe you can't keep flinging every attack that comes after that unless you shut the mask off and on again.

I agree with bonesiii about the Elemental Kanohi: They are likely more specific versions of a full elemental power, or at least a weaker version. The mask will have to contain the power to transform mental/Kanohi energy into elemental energy of the appropriate type, and then force that energy to apply the wanted effect. If we think of powers as a program of sorts, then these Kanohi would work like emulators in a way.

For a Toa designed for using a specific element such as Fire, their very being is made to manipulate Fire Energy. If they want a stream of fire, they point their hand and convert Fire Energy into flames. A Kanohi is made to work with an entirely different, universal type of energy, and will need extra "programming" to achieve the same effect. It will first have to convert Kanohi Energy to Fire Energy, and then Fire Energy to flame. It stands to reason that you can cram a lot more "native programming" into a Toa made for a specific purpose, than you can cram into a mask designed to interface with any number of beings. As such, even a Toa of Fire will not be able to use a Kanohi of Fire to augment their "flamethrower" ability, since the Kanohi is still made to work in a specific way that is separate from the "native" Elemental Fire system built into the Toa's body.

Plus, the point about Kanohi being able to work for a shorter amount of time total is likely correct too. It sounds very reasonable. I do not believe a Knaohi would contain enough power to "go Nova", but the energy it creates could very well create a proto-cage if you could release the right type of EE from it. We just don't know how specific the power is for Elemental masks other than the ones listed.


As for molding masks into different shapes: Yes, that is a very real advantage. If you see someone with the well-known Hau shape, you can be very surprised when they turn out to be using a Mask of Invisibility instead. Still, masks are likely molded into predefined shapes so that it is easy for Matoran and Toa to sort them. You don't want to figure out that what you thought was a Mask of Shielding is actually an odd-shaped Mask of Night Vision, when the first fireball explodes in your face.

I imagine that painting yourself would be a bit obvious, in the same way that gold-colored spray paint does not truly look like gold in real life. The texture is a bit off, and paint can more easily wear off than color that is molded into the material itself. May be good for camouflage at a distance, though.

Edited by Katuko, Dec 21 2013 - 05:13 PM.

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#7 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Dec 21 2013 - 10:49 PM

Didn't see your edit:

*EDIT (Little side question: Couldn't Artahka, or anyone skilled/powerful enough, make lots of Masks of Shadows and Light?)

Artakha definitely could, as the Mask of Creation would tell him how. For others, depends on if they know the mixture. If they do, they could make as many as they can afford.

 

The Hau is Telekinetic? Wow...I always pictured a force field thingy...

Well, yes -- I meant the MNOG portrayal, but either way, "telekinesis" is involved in holding the "force" energy in place. It's an ingredient somewhere or another in just about all powers, if not all -- moving something around with "magical" power.

 

But yeah, I did forget momentarily about the MOL portrayal of it as more of a standard forcefield bubble (like hard light, or something). I'm not sure which is more canon, but even the MOL portrayal could simply be a wall of telekinetic energy -- and if not, it still has to be a wall of telekinetic energy of a subtype targeting whatever other energy is held in place.

 

How does that work against energy attacks then? I figured Telekinesis was for moving things with mass...

The term simply refers to moving with the mind (or in the case of automatic powers, the 'mind' would be whatever computer or whatnot processes the power). The energy would be the thing being moved, in that case.

 

Ah, I think there was a topic about this. It showed that the Hau's force field doesn't act like a solid "bubble", since I think you can still attack from in the inside (so you can shoot out but people can't shoot in at you).

I don't know if one answer or the other was definitively proven, but the MNOG portrayal was definitely more like a repelling magnet than a solid wall. The MOL portrayal looked more like a wall. But the shape of that wall of course formed because Tahu saw the attack coming -- if he saw an attack coming at closer ranger the wall would presumably have formed closer. Anyways, my point wasn't really to debate how the Hau works (lol punny -- and not that I mind :P) but that there's some amount of "telekinesis" in other powers besides the Matatu. :) Levitation and Flight would be two other obvious examples.

 

The part you put in parentheses is almost certainly true whether it's a "solid" wall or not. And wouldn't be the first 'solid' forcefield to have such rules. Star Trek shields for example can almost always be fired out of; you'll see space battles all the time with a shielded ship firing phasers out nonetheless.


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#8 Offline Zox Tomana

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Posted Dec 22 2013 - 06:22 PM

I have a question on the lines of his about paint: we know that MU beings can rebuild themselves, could they rebuild themselves with differently colored armor?
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#9 Offline Katuko

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Posted Dec 23 2013 - 08:22 AM

Most likely. Color seems influenced by a beings' element, but we have only really seen this happen for a Toa. Their Kanohi become saturated with color when worn, and their body parts appeared to do the same in the promo animations where Toa Mata put themselves together. This doesn't appear to override other colors, though, such as the Vahi's natural orange. I'm not sure if that came from paint or internal energy (though the latter seems most likely, actually), but neither Vakama or Tahu had the color change when they wore the mask. Tahu in particular replaced his normal mask with the Vahi, but it did not turn red.

Matoran are confirmed to paint their masks, so I would guess that they could use any color of metal they wanted to without having it change due to internal elemental energy or anything.

The whole Toa creation process is mentally influenced to an extent when it comes to armor shape, so I'd guess that color could also be affected that way. After the color has been set, though, I don't think it will change. Tahu's torso will always be red, for example, and won't change unless a major change happens. Equipment gained elsewhere - such as weapons and armor - appears to only have silver color because it was made that way. Silver is not a "native" color to either Tahu or most other Toa, and I don't think any of them are able to just "will" their sword to match their body colors.

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#10 Offline ~TSO~

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Posted Dec 26 2013 - 02:18 PM

And how awesome would it be to have a Team of 6 Toa with 12 Elemental Powers?! XD
 
IMAGINE THIS PLUS SUVAS O_O

We sure need a story about that!
 

- An Elemental Kanohi will give you powers equal to a Toa (aside from Toa exclusives), no more, no less, correct?

As far as I remember, that's not correct. Elemental Kanohi provide it's user with much weaker elemental powers. That was even somewhere confirmed by Greg.
 

I can see the last two questions.points being real points of trolling/confusion in canon, but surely it makes sense and is very possible? I'm ignoring things like "the have to be the right colour so kids buying he sets don't confuse them", I'm just thinking about what's possibru

4th is possible in a way of fact of recolouring - I mean, why not? Other parts are surely possible but kinda weird. Disguising him- or herself with another colour or shape of Kanohi would work with being from different universes, but these guys live in they own world for hundreds and thousands of years. What I'm trying to say is that they could tell people from other "tribes" not by colour, but by behaviour, for example. Same for the masks.
It could work for a short or first time, of course.
 

*EDIT (Little side question: Couldn't Artahka, or anyone skilled/powerful enough, make lots of Masks of Shadows and Light?)

I've once heard a question of almost the same type: "Tell me please how many Toa of Gravitation you'd need to create a quasar?" :)

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