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#41 Offline skratchR

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Posted Feb 11 2014 - 01:21 PM

 

Looks they left in a bit of a hurry, don't know if they could carry replacements for all the kanohi that can be damaged during a 1000-year war, plus the journey to matanui.

 

 

Yes, but when they came back to Metru Nui in 2005 story they could have picked up a few more. They had an entire fleet of airships. If they had time to build those, picking up a few Kanohi on the way out would be easy. 

 

 

Altough i can no longer defend my theory, I have just seen the movie, and they did not build the airships. In fact, matau sees them for the first time just before entering. In fact, he very poetically says:

'WHOA! WHAT AN AIRSHIP!!'

We all bow to matau's great speech abilities.


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#42 Offline fishers64

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Posted Feb 11 2014 - 01:32 PM



 


Altough i can no longer defend my theory, I have just seen the movie, and they did not build the airships. In fact, matau sees them for the first time just before entering. In fact, he very poetically says:

'WHOA! WHAT AN AIRSHIP!!'

We all bow to matau's great speech abilities.

 

It was clearly stated in the book Challenge of the Hordika that the Toa Hordika spread out across the city looking for airship parts. 


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#43 Offline skratchR

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Posted Feb 11 2014 - 01:56 PM

 



 


Altough i can no longer defend my theory, I have just seen the movie, and they did not build the airships. In fact, matau sees them for the first time just before entering. In fact, he very poetically says:

'WHOA! WHAT AN AIRSHIP!!'

We all bow to matau's great speech abilities.

 

It was clearly stated in the book Challenge of the Hordika that the Toa Hordika spread out across the city looking for airship parts. 

 

Hmmm... the movie contradicts a book. This ensures people fighting each other for months.

Nevertheless, I believe that metru nui would have some built airships? (le metru was all about that). 


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#44 Online Makuta Luroka

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Posted Feb 11 2014 - 02:12 PM

 

 

Altough i can no longer defend my theory, I have just seen the movie, and they did not build the airships. In fact, matau sees them for the first time just before entering. In fact, he very poetically says:

'WHOA! WHAT AN AIRSHIP!!'
We all bow to matau's great speech abilities.

It was clearly stated in the book Challenge of the Hordika that the Toa Hordika spread out across the city looking for airship parts.

 

Hmmm... the movie contradicts a book. This ensures people fighting each other for months.
Nevertheless, I believe that metru nui would have some built airships? (le metru was all about that).

 


It is unlikely that they would find six airships perfectly intact, given the damage the city suffered. Also, I do not recall Matau reacting in that way (or any way, for that matter) upon seeing them. Thus, it is implied that he has seen them before. Such a reaction would be unlikely regardless because of his previous occupation as a test pilot.


Edited by Makuta Malignus, Feb 11 2014 - 02:12 PM.

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#45 Offline fishers64

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Posted Feb 11 2014 - 02:26 PM

Hmmm... the movie contradicts a book. This ensures people fighting each other for months.

 

 

Nevertheless, I believe that metru nui would have some built airships? (le metru was all about that). 

 

It had been Matau's suggestion that the Toa use airships to transport the Matoran out safely. But the Visorak had wrecked all the existing vessels in Le-Metru, which meant building more.

 

The book then goes on to describe various airship parts that the heroes salvage and bring together by the end of the book. The actual airship building probably occurred offscreen.

 

It is unlikely that they would find six airships perfectly intact, given the damage the city suffered. Also, I do not recall Matau reacting in that way (or any way, for that matter) upon seeing them. Thus, it is implied that he has seen them before. Such a reaction would be unlikely regardless because of his previous occupation as a test pilot.

 

All I remember was "Nice ships." But I think scratchR was exaggerating for comedic effect. We all know how Matau is. (And I thought Matau was testing land vehicles, not airships, if both versions of LoMN are anything to go by.)


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#46 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Feb 11 2014 - 04:58 PM

 

Hmmm... the movie contradicts a book. This ensures people fighting each other for months.

 

 

Nevertheless, I believe that metru nui would have some built airships? (le metru was all about that). 

 

 

 

It had been Matau's suggestion that the Toa use airships to transport the Matoran out safely. But the Visorak had wrecked all the existing vessels in Le-Metru, which meant building more.

 

The book then goes on to describe various airship parts that the heroes salvage and bring together by the end of the book. The actual airship building probably occurred offscreen.

 

It is unlikely that they would find six airships perfectly intact, given the damage the city suffered. Also, I do not recall Matau reacting in that way (or any way, for that matter) upon seeing them. Thus, it is implied that he has seen them before. Such a reaction would be unlikely regardless because of his previous occupation as a test pilot.

 

All I remember was "Nice ships." But I think scratchR was exaggerating for comedic effect. We all know how Matau is. (And I thought Matau was testing land vehicles, not airships, if both versions of LoMN are anything to go by.)

 

We just saw Matau piloting the Moto-Sled. It's reasonable to assume he piloted all sorts of vehicles. Also, I do find it odd how Matau reacted to the airships, since I'd assume he'd have helped build them, but I could believe only Onewa, Vakama, and Nuju did.

 

Also, the Toa gathering airship parts is a major plot point in CotH, so I think the book beats out the movie in this case, as usual.


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#47 Offline fishers64

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Posted Feb 11 2014 - 06:40 PM

We just saw Matau piloting the Moto-Sled. It's reasonable to assume he piloted all sorts of vehicles. Also, I do find it odd how Matau reacted to the airships, since I'd assume he'd have helped build them, but I could believe only Onewa, Vakama, and Nuju did.

 

Also, the Toa gathering airship parts is a major plot point in CotH, so I think the book beats out the movie in this case, as usual.

 

Okay, point conceded on that.

But I don't know where you all are getting the "reaction" from. Source? I don't recall anything of the sort in the novels or the film. Some 2005 comic that I didn't read?

 

Actually, I've heard the rule that movies are more canon than books in general, but I don't think there is real contradiction here. Nothing in the WoS movie states or even suggests that they didn't build them. Just because it doesn't show the Toa building the ships didn't mean that they didn't build them "offscreen". 


Edited by fishers64, Feb 11 2014 - 06:42 PM.

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#48 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Feb 11 2014 - 07:11 PM

 

We just saw Matau piloting the Moto-Sled. It's reasonable to assume he piloted all sorts of vehicles. Also, I do find it odd how Matau reacted to the airships, since I'd assume he'd have helped build them, but I could believe only Onewa, Vakama, and Nuju did.

 

Also, the Toa gathering airship parts is a major plot point in CotH, so I think the book beats out the movie in this case, as usual.

 

Okay, point conceded on that.

But I don't know where you all are getting the "reaction" from. Source? I don't recall anything of the sort in the novels or the film. Some 2005 comic that I didn't read?

 

Actually, I've heard the rule that movies are more canon than books in general, but I don't think there is real contradiction here. Nothing in the WoS movie states or even suggests that they didn't build them. Just because it doesn't show the Toa building the ships didn't mean that they didn't build them "offscreen". 

 

When the Toa first sees the ships (I think as the scene's first fading in), Matau says, "Whoa, nice ships!" or something like that. I'm pretty sure of it.


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#49 Offline fishers64

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Posted Feb 11 2014 - 07:47 PM

That doesn't mean that he didn't build the ships. 


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#50 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Feb 11 2014 - 11:30 PM

I think he sounds surprised, like he's seeing them for the first time.


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#51 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Feb 11 2014 - 11:59 PM

FTR, Greg confirmed they built the airships.

 

And, I'm not convinced there's any "beating" here. I've seen WoS many times and I don't recall thinking Matau seemed surprised at the ships. I'd have to see it again... *heads off to consult the awesomesauce of Netflix*

 

Edit: All the Toa are helping carry the Matoran Spheres to the airships. They clearly already knew they were there, and none of the others act remotely surprised, for sure. In fact they already had a conveyor belt set up carrying many pods already up to the door, or close to it. Matau is introed sitting on one of these pods, then as it nears, he hops off. Stands for a second or two, calmly looking at the ship with an approving expression (he doesn't look surprised either, more like an artist standing back to admire his completed work IMO).

 

Then he says, "Woohoo! Nice ship." He doesn't say it instantly or with the emotion of surprise as you'd expect if he hadn't seen them; only after a moment's contemplation. None of this would even make sense anyways if it was just an intact airship they had found; everybody was completely used to seeing airships all over the place, especially Le-Metru. It only makes sense in fact because they had needed to build them, and if something is newly built, it's certainly open to question whether it's "nice" or not. :) He's saying, yes it is, and almost certainly jestingly reminding the others (none of whom have any expertise with flying vehicles) "and that's thanks to meeeee!" :P

 

His tone is clearly one of self-praise, meant to tease the others lightheartedly. (He was already in a joking mood when riding the sphere; about how everybody else was working hard. Of course, Matau is almost always in a joking mood.)

 

Onewa continues the jest, punching him on the shoulder, and adding, "Hey Matau, let's not crash it this time." This is clearly an allusion to the Lhikan II, which they also constructed, and then had crashed.

 

So you appear to have taken the completely opposite meaning from what was intended. :P It was likely meant to imply the ships were newly built, which readers of the books would presumably understand, but without coming right out and saying it so as not to overburden the movie plot, so those who don't read the books wouldn't need to know it; no harm if it goes over their heads.

 

 

Edit2: BTW, how the heck did we get off on this tangent? :lol:


Edited by bonesiii, Feb 12 2014 - 12:15 AM.

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#52 Offline fishers64

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Posted Feb 12 2014 - 12:25 AM

Edit2: BTW, how the heck did we get off on this tangent? :lol:

It started from an off-topic aside having to do with where the Matoran of Mata Nui got their masks (since we were talking about Kopeke's mask). I maintained that the Toa Metru got spares when they left, and used the fact that the since the Toa had enough time to build airships, they had enough time to pick up a few masks. This led to scratchR attacking the idea that the Toa Metru built the airships. 


Edited by fishers64, Feb 12 2014 - 12:25 AM.

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#53 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Feb 12 2014 - 02:28 AM

I see.

 

BTW, probably the only major reason they included that line in the movie was just to clue the viewer in that those weird gem-like things they'd just seen were ships. It probably wasn't supposed to be about where the ships came from at all, though it is certainly consistent with the official explanation.

 

(And no, it was never really debatable whether they built them; the idea that Matau was surprised is only a fan interpretation, even if it did seem plausible, not a direct statement in contradiction with the books, ergo logically that fan interpretation must be wrong since the only actual statement about it one way or another in any source is the books' revelation that the Toa had to build them.)


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#54 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Feb 12 2014 - 11:53 AM

Oh, I never picked up the self-praise. It makes sense now, thanks. Once again, bones saves the day.


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#55 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Feb 13 2014 - 03:05 PM

You're welcome. BTW, I got curious about what the book version of the movie says, and turns out the self-praise thing isn't just my interpretation (I was probably subconsciously remembering it from this book). In Greg's version of the line, it says:

 

"Nice ships," Matau commented, looking over his own handiwork.

For the record. :) The paragraph before explains that the Toa built them.


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#56 Offline Great Being Velika

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Posted Feb 24 2014 - 09:29 PM

In my opinion, the Matatu is much more aesthetically pleasing than the Komau. Lego probably wanted a fiercer looking mask (you know; it's a sporting event). That's just my two cents on the whole matter.


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