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Hahli, are you confused?


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#1 Offline Omega12

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Posted Jan 06 2014 - 11:40 PM

So I've been wondering about something for a while now. Do we know why Hahli always used armor colors for other elements?

As a Toa Inika she sported some blue and white armor. Now Givin that the Inika had lightning powers, this seems like a nice little nod from TLC.

As a Mahri Hahli had some green and blue armor. So now Hahli thinks she's a toa of the green!

As far as I know she is the only toa to flip flop armor color (except pohatu and hewkii, but we all know that Lego stopped using our sweet sweet brown plastic ((side note: I strongly dislike my orange and yellow stone toa)) )

Do we know why Hahli kept having armor meant for a different element. I know that armor doesn't define your element (see Onepu), but with toa armor color and element usually match. Any theories as to way her armor changed so much?

Edited by Omega12, Jan 06 2014 - 11:41 PM.

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#2 Offline Sykreos the Challenger

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Posted Jan 07 2014 - 12:34 AM

Probably because they thought those were the best color schemes for Hahli... Or maybe because they temporarily discontinued certain colors or didn't make them in certain colors, you know? It is a pretty confusing matter.


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#3 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Jan 07 2014 - 12:56 AM

I'm going to agree with what you said on the lightning scheme. But I think the green and blue colors look more like something to emulate colors associated with sea life.  From what I've heard, it's not unusual to see things like that in Bionicle.


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#4 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Jan 07 2014 - 11:04 AM

What you don't seem to realize is that those "official" armor colors for each element are just generalizations, and each element has room for an incredibly diverse array of armor colors. I think Toa Hahli's armor colors were still plainly water-oriented and wouldn't be mistaken for obscure secondary elements by any casual fan of the story. There's plenty of room for unique secondary colors if the element's primary color remains apparent. Toa Inika Hahli was still plainly a Toa of Water as a Toa Inika, with the white secondary color resembling the foamy crest of a wave. As a Toa Mahri, the bright yellowish green secondary color was less obviously water-oriented, but the color scheme still said "water" a lot more loudly than it said "plant life".

Also keep in mind that before 2002, there weren't any Onu-Matoran with bright orange masks, but Nuparu showed it could be done. And as early as 2001, there were Onu-Matoran with the exact same colors as many Po-Matoran. This didn't mean that they were trying to suggest those Matoran were some kind of hybrid Matoran, it just meant that the color schemes had some overlap. And as more and more "secondary" Matoran elements got created and assigned colors, these natural overlaps became more and more inevitable.

Think of it this way: in real life, there are lots of different skin and hair colors associated with different parts of the world. But at the same time, some skin and hair colors are shared throughout multiple parts of the world. If a person of Native American descent has similar skin and hair colors to a person of Arabic descent, that doesn't mean they're "pretending" to be Arabic. It just means that there's occasionally a natural overlap between skin and hair colors from those parts of the globe.

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#5 Offline Kopekemaster

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Posted Jan 07 2014 - 11:40 AM

I'm going to agree with what you said on the lightning scheme. But I think the green and blue colors look more like something to emulate colors associated with sea life.  From what I've heard, it's not unusual to see things like that in Bionicle.

 

I would agree with you, but it brings up another question. Why don't the others have similar colour themes?


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#6 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Jan 07 2014 - 01:01 PM

 

I'm going to agree with what you said on the lightning scheme. But I think the green and blue colors look more like something to emulate colors associated with sea life.  From what I've heard, it's not unusual to see things like that in Bionicle.

 

I would agree with you, but it brings up another question. Why don't the others have similar colour themes?

 

 

How many toa had Lewas colors? or Galis? Or Lhikans? For that matter, I can't think of two toa that shared an exact color scheme.


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#7 Offline Kopekemaster

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Posted Jan 07 2014 - 01:20 PM

 

 

I'm going to agree with what you said on the lightning scheme. But I think the green and blue colors look more like something to emulate colors associated with sea life.  From what I've heard, it's not unusual to see things like that in Bionicle.

 

I would agree with you, but it brings up another question. Why don't the others have similar colour themes?

 

 

How many toa had Lewas colors? or Galis? Or Lhikans? For that matter, I can't think of two toa that shared an exact color scheme.

 

No, I mean if the green was supposed to add a sea-effect to her colour scheme, why didn't Matoro have white and green, Jaller have red and green, etc.


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#8 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jan 07 2014 - 01:28 PM

Onewa had blue eyes, hardly a color normally associated with stone. I just think they occasionally wanted a Toa to challenge expectations. But if they all were so radically beyond the normal pattern it wouldn't be as noticeable. Basically it gave people stuff to wonder about, as is clearly working here. :P

 

Also, I think the green is more meant to imply seaweed, rather than water. Jaller being lime and red wouldn't imply water, but blue and red might (but then we'd think, is he "Toa Takua?" lol). Hahli had blue in her scheme already, so blue plus lime worked.

 

 

To the original topic question, does anybody remember what year those other element colors were established? I was under the impression it was after 2006-7. So, LEGO would not have originally had that in mind. Greg might later have factored that the colors were available in the sets when he picked them for those other elements, for MOCing purposes.


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#9 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Jan 07 2014 - 01:36 PM

 

 

 

I'm going to agree with what you said on the lightning scheme. But I think the green and blue colors look more like something to emulate colors associated with sea life.  From what I've heard, it's not unusual to see things like that in Bionicle.

 

I would agree with you, but it brings up another question. Why don't the others have similar colour themes?

 

 

How many toa had Lewas colors? or Galis? Or Lhikans? For that matter, I can't think of two toa that shared an exact color scheme.

 

No, I mean if the green was supposed to add a sea-effect to her colour scheme, why didn't Matoro have white and green, Jaller have red and green, etc.

 

Sea life is more associated with water than the other elements. It lives in water, and Hahli Mahri's colors reflect that. There's not much in the ocean that could be connected to the other Toa's elements, but there are some clever designs used to show they're aquatic Toa. Like Hewkii's armor (his mask, upper legs, and shoulder) looked like coral.


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#10 Offline Fabioman84

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Posted Jan 07 2014 - 02:01 PM

Sea life is more associated with water than the other elements. It lives in water, and Hahli Mahri's colors reflect that. There's not much in the ocean that could be connected to the other Toa's elements, but there are some clever designs used to show they're aquatic Toa. Like Hewkii's armor (his mask, upper legs, and shoulder) looked like coral.

 

I always though that Hewkii's mask looked like a manta-ray


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#11 Offline Ghabulous Ghoti

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Posted Jan 07 2014 - 03:39 PM

Well, Ta-Matoran could have black, as could Po, those Ko-Matoran could have blue, etc.

 

Secondary colors had a wide variety.


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#12 Offline NuvaTube

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Posted Jan 07 2014 - 04:28 PM

I think it's doesn't matter much so long as the primary colour is right, and the secondary isn't really against the element's colour (So I'd say a Ta-Toa with red primary and green or blue secondary is a no-go), I think you can have a decent variety. Hahli was a little weird but passable I think


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#13 Offline Yukiko

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Posted Jan 07 2014 - 07:08 PM

I think it's doesn't matter much so long as the primary colour is right, and the secondary isn't really against the element's colour (So I'd say a Ta-Toa with red primary and green or blue secondary is a no-go), I think you can have a decent variety. Hahli was a little weird but passable I think

 

But flames also have light blue in them, so I would think that light blue accents wouldn't be against a fire toa's color scheme.


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#14 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jan 07 2014 - 07:26 PM

Then why would light green, the color of seaweed, algae, and lily pads, be against a water Toa's?

 

The topic title confuses me a bit. I don't think Hahli can control what color scheme she has anymore than I can control my skin color. Blame the Ignika - it never went to the Bs01 school of color scheme rules. :P


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#15 Offline Ghabulous Ghoti

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Posted Jan 07 2014 - 09:00 PM

I think it's doesn't matter much so long as the primary colour is right, and the secondary isn't really against the element's colour (So I'd say a Ta-Toa with red primary and green or blue secondary is a no-go), I think you can have a decent variety. Hahli was a little weird but passable I think

No blue fire?


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#16 Offline Omega12

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Posted Jan 07 2014 - 10:44 PM

Then why would light green, the color of seaweed, algae, and lily pads, be against a water Toa's?
 
The topic title confuses me a bit. I don't think Hahli can control what color scheme she has anymore than I can control my skin color. Blame the Ignika - it never went to the Bs01 school of color scheme rules. :P

The thread title was just something to catch people's attention.

The main reason I brought this up is that we haven't seen many toa with odd colors. We have Hahli, Pohatu, and Hewkwii as far as I can remember. We have also never seen a red and blue toa of fire, or say green and brown toa of air. This is the main reason why hahlis colors seem so odd to me, especially since her I'd colors coincide with other well elements.

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#17 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Jan 08 2014 - 08:35 AM


Probably because they thought those were the best color schemes for Hahli... Or maybe because they temporarily discontinued certain colors or didn't make them in certain colors, you know? It is a pretty confusing matter.
Except that white and lime weren't discontinued... :P
 

What you don't seem to realize is that those "official" armor colors for each element are just generalizations, and each element has room for an incredibly diverse array of armor colors.
This. This this this. As a MOCist who enjoys playing around with color schemes, it's frustrating to no end when someone goes "hey you can't make a Toa of Iron with red armor". :lol:

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#18 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jan 08 2014 - 10:27 AM

This is the main reason why hahlis colors seem so odd to me, especially since her I'd colors coincide with other well elements.

But again:

 

1) They're supposed to be odd to get people's attention to want to buy the set, and

 

2) They actually aren't odd for her in that situation at all. The lime represents seaweed, undersea plants. And that's the year she goes underwater. And:

 

3) Again, those colors likely weren't coinciding with other elements, if memory serves, yet at the time. That was chosen later and probably specifically because sets including them had been made. I doubt the lime counts, but the mixed white and blue in one piece from some of the Inika pieces would thus be easy to MOC Toa of Lightning with. Even with blue and lime (although it's probably not the same green usually seen in Toa of Plants), having an element use the ones available in just one set makes MOCing a Toa of Plants easy for fans; they don't have to buy as many different sets to do it. So it's really the other way around; the fact that existing sets match color schemes of the non-set element colors is to be expected, and it's an intentional choice.

 

 

To blue being under Fire range of colors, yes, Greg confirmed that. That is why Takua's blue mask wasn't seen as prohibitively strange; it was associated with blue fire. There would be a handful of other Ta-Matoran with that color somewhere (eyes probably most likely), we just never saw them, and they might not be from Metru Nui specifically even. But Vakama would have known this and would teach the known ranges to the Ta-Matoran, so they could choose replacement masks from within that range.

 

Had Takua become a Toa of Fire, from Vakama's perspective, the blue probably would have been natural to be mixed into his color scheme; picture a sword of fire, for example, starting blue at the base, then white, then yellow, orange, red. Then maybe something similar to that but just with blue, yellow, and red, from mask down like his Matoran form. Vakama might have even imagined such a thing happening when he thought Takua's collecting the six Toa Stones would Toa-ize him, not knowing he was Av.

 

But red and blue representing fire going underwater seems more unlikely. Incidentally, though, didn't Matoro's color scheme do something unusual too, with trans-blue or something? I'd have to check, but that might symbolize melting ice or underwater ice. Edit: No, I guess that was just the Inika form. But then, at least that could symbolize being charged up with lightning (trans plastic often indicates glowing since you can put a light behind it to make it seem kinda like that, like the eye plastic).


Edited by bonesiii, Jan 08 2014 - 10:29 AM.

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#19 Offline NuvaTube

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Posted Jan 08 2014 - 12:12 PM

 

I think it's doesn't matter much so long as the primary colour is right, and the secondary isn't really against the element's colour (So I'd say a Ta-Toa with red primary and green or blue secondary is a no-go), I think you can have a decent variety. Hahli was a little weird but passable I think

No blue fire?

 

 

 

I think it's doesn't matter much so long as the primary colour is right, and the secondary isn't really against the element's colour (So I'd say a Ta-Toa with red primary and green or blue secondary is a no-go), I think you can have a decent variety. Hahli was a little weird but passable I think

 

But flames also have light blue in them, so I would think that light blue accents wouldn't be against a fire toa's color scheme.

 

 

I was thinking dark blue but I guess light blue highlights could work


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#20 Offline Takhamavahu

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Posted Jan 09 2014 - 07:26 AM

The set designers were just being creative. Toa ae allowed minor variations as long as she's mostly blue.

And I don't think the colour scheme for Lightning had been decided by the time the Toa Inika came out. There's no inside joke there.


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#21 Offline skratchR

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Posted Jan 24 2014 - 04:14 PM

 

 

 

I'm going to agree with what you said on the lightning scheme. But I think the green and blue colors look more like something to emulate colors associated with sea life.  From what I've heard, it's not unusual to see things like that in Bionicle.

 

I would agree with you, but it brings up another question. Why don't the others have similar colour themes?

 

 

How many toa had Lewas colors? or Galis? Or Lhikans? For that matter, I can't think of two toa that shared an exact color scheme.

 

No, I mean if the green was supposed to add a sea-effect to her colour scheme, why didn't Matoro have white and green, Jaller have red and green, etc.

 

To note that the others were simply out of their elements, while hahli was where she belonged.


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#22 Offline V-N

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Posted Jan 24 2014 - 05:52 PM

 

 

I'm going to agree with what you said on the lightning scheme. But I think the green and blue colors look more like something to emulate colors associated with sea life.  From what I've heard, it's not unusual to see things like that in Bionicle.

 

I would agree with you, but it brings up another question. Why don't the others have similar colour themes?

 

 

How many toa had Lewas colors? or Galis? Or Lhikans? For that matter, I can't think of two toa that shared an exact color scheme.

 

 

If a Matoran turns into a Toa, don't they take the form of what they think a Toa should look like? So, it should also stand to reason that their color scheme might also take on what they think a Toa's should be. If Hahli thought a Toa of water should be blue and white, then that's what colors she gets when she was turned into a Toa Inika. Though, admittedly, it wouldn't make sense for her to think a Toa of water should be blue and white, because she would probably picture Gali (butt she was Toa-ized by the Red Start, an unconventional way of being transformed, so she might not have had as big as a say in the matter. :P Same for when she became a Mahri).

 

The point is, all the various Toa could have different color schemes because that's what they picture a Toa. I still need to find an excuse for Vakama, though, since he would have then gotten Lhikan's gold and red.


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#23 Offline Zox Tomana

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Posted Jan 24 2014 - 05:57 PM

I'm going to agree with what you said on the lightning scheme. But I think the green and blue colors look more like something to emulate colors associated with sea life.  From what I've heard, it's not unusual to see things like that in Bionicle.

 
I would agree with you, but it brings up another question. Why don't the others have similar colour themes?

 
How many toa had Lewas colors? or Galis? Or Lhikans? For that matter, I can't think of two toa that shared an exact color scheme.

 
If a Matoran turns into a Toa, don't they take the form of what they think a Toa should look like? So, it should also stand to reason that their color scheme might also take on what they think a Toa's should be. If Hahli thought a Toa of water should be blue and white, then that's what colors she gets when she was turned into a Toa Inika. Though, admittedly, it wouldn't make sense for her to think a Toa of water should be blue and white, because she would probably picture Gali (butt she was Toa-ized by the Red Start, an unconventional way of being transformed, so she might not have had as big as a say in the matter. :P Same for when she became a Mahri).
 
The point is, all the various Toa could have different color schemes because that's what they picture a Toa. I still need to find an excuse for Vakama, though, since he would have then gotten Lhikan's gold and red.


I have a feeling that this isn't a hard and fast rule, but more of a general idea that guides the transformation process. Besides, the mental image they form of a "generalized Toa ideal" is probably going to be different from their mental image of a specific Toa.

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