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Is the Mask Of Light mean?


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#1 Offline ElevenGuy

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Posted Jan 09 2014 - 10:48 PM

Is the Mask Of Light mean?

 

I've made a map that shows a decent guess of Jaller/Takua's path that they followed during MoL. Why did the Mask of Light lead them in such a confusing manner? Coudn't they just have sklpped Ko-Koro and Onu-Koro?

 

Link:

http://www.majhost.c...y.cgi?i=3804207


Edited by ElevenGuy, Jan 09 2014 - 10:48 PM.

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#2 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Jan 09 2014 - 11:18 PM

One thing I noticed after many viewings of the movie is that the villages they visit correspond directly to the villages that weren't in the Kolhii match. (Tahu, Gali, and Pohatu went to the match, while Lewa, Kopaka, and Onua were on the Mask's path.) I want to say this is an obvious attempt to market all the Toa, but then again, I didn't notice it for years.

 

Also, I don't think the map should go that far up into Onu-Koro. When Takua and Jaller separate, they're in the highway to Onu-Koro, and it seems they haven't been walking for that long. They should just be on the Onu-Ko border. Also, the next time we see Jaller, he's on a cliffside, and we don't know where that it. Another oddity is that, from Le-Wahi to Ko-Wahi, Lewa leads them, and I don't know if he was flying in the direction he remembered the mask pointing or what. Overall, the mask lead them on a convoluted path and has no clear in-universe meaning.


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#3 Offline ElevenGuy

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Posted Jan 09 2014 - 11:26 PM

One thing I noticed after many viewings of the movie is that the villages they visit correspond directly to the villages that weren't in the Kolhii match. (Tahu, Gali, and Pohatu went to the match, while Lewa, Kopaka, and Onua were on the Mask's path.) I want to say this is an obvious attempt to market all the Toa, but then again, I didn't notice it for years.

Also, I don't think the map should go that far up into Onu-Koro. When Takua and Jaller separate, they're in the highway to Onu-Koro, and it seems they haven't been walking for that long. They should just be on the Onu-Ko border. Also, the next time we see Jaller, he's on a cliffside, and we don't know where that it. Another oddity is that, from Le-Wahi to Ko-Wahi, Lewa leads them, and I don't know if he was flying in the direction he remembered the mask pointing or what. Overall, the mask lead them on a convoluted path and has no clear in-universe meaning.

Interesting thoughts...

 

The reason I put the map all the way up to Onu-Koro is because Takua went all the way there himself.And I'm assuming the cliffside was the side of the Mangai just before they arrived at Kini-Nui.

 

 

EDIT:

Oh, and another thing. Is there any particular reason why Takua had to go to Kini-Nui to become Takanuva? Couldn't he just have put on the mask at the beginning and save himself and Jaller the trip? This movie is confusing.


Edited by ElevenGuy, Jan 09 2014 - 11:27 PM.

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#4 Offline AdaptingChaos

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Posted Jan 09 2014 - 11:54 PM

Im pretty sure that its basically a clever marketing idea, as expressed in the first post. However maybe the direction the mask led them was bc it wanted to test Takua? I dont know just a thought. And maybe they werent able to just skip Ko-Koro and Onu-Koro due to natural environmental structures/obstacles present on Mata Nui. Again this is just a thought :P


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#5 Offline LordofBionicles

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Posted Jan 10 2014 - 12:20 AM

My best guess is the "go back right where you started" cliché seen in many adventure movies where the quest of the heroes comes to an end at the same spot where it began, sure Jaller & Takua didn't end up on Ta-Koro but they were pretty close from there.

 

However maybe the direction the mask led them was bc it wanted to test Takua? I dont know just a thought. 

I agree with that AdaptinChaos, but wouldn't that imply that the MoL is sentient like the MoLi?


Edited by LordofBionicles, Jan 10 2014 - 10:37 PM.

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#6 Offline Chro

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Posted Jan 10 2014 - 06:46 AM

Is it possible that they went where they did in a (totally failed) attempt to avoid the Rahkshi or something like that?


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#7 Offline Toatapio Nuva

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Posted Jan 10 2014 - 06:49 AM

It's not the destination that's important, but the journey. That's what the mask was doing, leading Takua on a path to discover his true self. He had lessons to learn before becoming a Toa who would single-handedly need to defeat Makuta.

 

Still seems a bit mean from the Mask of Light though, considering there were Rahkshi chasing Takua and Jaller and threatening to kill them in various tight spots.


Edited by Toatapio Nuva, Jan 10 2014 - 06:49 AM.

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#8 Online Sir Kohran

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Posted Jan 10 2014 - 09:10 AM

I think this topic touches on two interesting questions - was the mask created specifically for Takua? And did whoever made it have any idea of the journey he'd undertake?


Edited by Sir Kohran, Jan 10 2014 - 09:11 AM.

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#9 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jan 10 2014 - 10:19 AM

The Mask of Light has no mind of its own, although it was stated that when it transformed Takua it did impart some knowledge to him that was stored in it. But the mask most likely did no guiding at all; it just lit up when the destined Av-Matoran touched it or willed it to light up, etc.

 

So, the path is just where Jaller and Takua chose to search for "the seventh Toa". Because Vakama had told them that this Toa "must be found." Isn't that what you'd do?

 

Oh, and another thing. Is there any particular reason why Takua had to go to Kini-Nui to become Takanuva? Couldn't he just have put on the mask at the beginning and save himself and Jaller the trip?

Not to Kini-Nui to become a Toa, no, but:

 

1) He had to go on an adventure again to think about things, and come to realize he was destined, and have an experience giving him the courage to put it on. He wouldn't realize it any of this just sitting in a hut (and likely then would have been killed by the Rahkshi anyways; Vakama might have suspected that part at least as part of his reason for urging them to leave, but he also knew Takua was most in touch with who he is when he's adventuring).

 

2) Kini-Nui does happen to be the way to the Mangaia lair of the Makuta and the Toa of Light was all about defeating him. This much Takua knew, because the Toa had already gone that way and defeated him temporarily (and once the Rahkshi came up, being called "Makuta's sons", it is simple to deduce that Teridax is still alive). Whether Takua delayed accepting his role until he could physically see that location or not (which makes sense psychologically as seeing it has more emotional impact), he didn't technically have to go there to become Toa. As long as he accepted his destiny and put on the mask, he would have transformed anywhere. It was the accepting and getting over his denial that was the hard part.

 

The real question is whether any of that knowledge stored in the mask could already be imparted to Takua prior to putting on the mask or not -- well, also the extent of what the knowledge was. If so, then Takua's continuing to be in denial about it still could cause them to head away from the Kini-Nui and the mask could, in a sense guide them back there (and he could keep resisting, etc. so ends up wandering for a while). But I don't think it needs to impart anything to him yet for him to realize that he would need to go to Kini-Nui, and delaying until the last moment implies that he'll only transform there (psychologically).

 

I suspect that knowledge can only be imparted when the mask is worn, too.

 

But the one answer we can say for sure is no, the mask is not mean, or any other emotion. Basically Takua's irresponsible side to his psychology is what was mean.


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#10 Offline Katuko

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Posted Jan 10 2014 - 10:45 AM

He wouldn't realize it any of this just sitting in a hut (and likely then would have been killed by the Rahkshi anyways; Vakama might have suspected that part at least as part of his reason for urging them to leave, but he also knew Takua was most in touch with who he is when he's adventuring).

"Away with you! If the Rahkshi kill you at least you won't bring the village won't with you!" :P I know Vakama isn't the type to do that, but I believe at least a few other fantasy stories (such as Lord of the Rings) send the heroes away from their home because if they stay they will just be overrun by evil forces and never accomplish their goal.
 

Whether Takua delayed accepting his role until he could physically see that location or not (which makes sense psychologically as seeing it has more emotional impact), he didn't technically have to go there to become Toa. As long as he accepted his destiny and put on the mask, he would have transformed anywhere. It was the accepting and getting over his denial that was the hard part.

I agree with this. The mask just shone because it was near the herald, it had no real direction to it. Kini-Nui was an important place, so with every other place pretty much a dead end it makes sense to go there.
 

The real question is whether any of that knowledge stored in the mask could already be imparted to Takua prior to putting on the mask or not -- well, also the extent of what the knowledge was.

The knowledge the Avohkii seems to have given him is the way of building the Makuta-seeking Ussanui vehicle, and possibly some hint of its own power.

Basically Takua's irresponsible side to his psychology is what was mean.

I wouldn't blame him for not understanding right away that he could be the Toa of Light. I mean, the only Toa he had ever met were people who washed ashore under mysterious circumstances. The Turaga had not yet revealed that they had once been Toa either, so for Takua it would be a stretch to assume that you could grow to twice your own height and gain elemental powers. The 7th Toa could just as well have been another being sleeping in stasis, waiting for his moment to come.

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#11 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jan 10 2014 - 01:16 PM

 Basically Takua's irresponsible side to his psychology is what was mean.

I wouldn't blame him for not understanding right away that he could be the Toa of Light. I mean, the only Toa he had ever met were people who washed ashore under mysterious circumstances. The Turaga had not yet revealed that they had once been Toa either, so for Takua it would be a stretch to assume that you could grow to twice your own height and gain elemental powers. The 7th Toa could just as well have been another being sleeping in stasis, waiting for his moment to come.

 

I even thought this originally when reading that story lol. If me as the reader could be fooled, Takua most certainly would have thought it. 

 

But I think half of the film was Takua coming to terms with himself and accepting that it was his mask and that it responded to him - to take responsibility for what he had found in that cave and tried to pawn off on Jaller. It's only when Takua takes that mask for himself, makes the light beam shoot out, that's when he decides that it's his mask. 

 

I also think that Takua's putting on the mask was a dumb-luck theory test. He assumes that the mask chooses him, and what else do you do with a mask but wear it? Thus he assumes that he's supposed to wear it.


Edited by fishers64, Jan 10 2014 - 01:17 PM.

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#12 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jan 10 2014 - 02:13 PM

I wouldn't blame him for not understanding right away that he could be the Toa of Light.

No, I'm talking about his refusal to admit he was supposed to be the "Herald". Re-watch the opening of MOL, how he treats Jaller there (the "Hail Jaller!" part) is really kinda mean. If anything's mean it's that, is what I... mean... lol punny.

 

Yeah, the knowledge about the Ussanui and how his powers work might be all that was in there. Given that it was made, apparently, by Artakha, those are things he might understand (the Ussanui might even be something he asked the Mask of Creation how to do and just recorded the knowledge there).


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#13 Offline Katuko

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Posted Jan 10 2014 - 02:28 PM

I also think that Takua's putting on the mask was a dumb-luck theory test. He assumes that the mask chooses him, and what else do you do with a mask but wear it? Thus he assumes that he's supposed to wear it.

Would have been a funny moment if he turned out to be entirely wrong, and that the 7th Toa was some other guy. Or a girl. Maybe Graalok was the poor Toa, mutated years before in an attempt to thwart the legend of Makuta's defeat, and Takua only took its place by chance. It seems weird to name a character that does not actually do anything special, right? :P Let us craft an addendum to the Legend of the Toa of Light: an epic stanza in honor of Graalok, the first Toa of Light.

Jokes aside, even knowing and accepting he was the true Herald shouldn't make Takua immediately assume that he is supposed to be the actual Toa. Does the novelization mention his thoughts when he puts the mask on? Did he imagine that putting it on would shine the way, or did he then realize before he put it on that it would actually grant him a Toa's power?

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#14 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Jan 10 2014 - 02:59 PM

I also think that Takua's putting on the mask was a dumb-luck theory test. He assumes that the mask chooses him, and what else do you do with a mask but wear it? Thus he assumes that he's supposed to wear it.

Would have been a funny moment if he turned out to be entirely wrong, and that the 7th Toa was some other guy. Or a girl. Maybe Graalok was the poor Toa, mutated years before in an attempt to thwart the legend of Makuta's defeat, and Takua only took its place by chance. It seems weird to name a character that does not actually do anything special, right? :P Let us craft an addendum to the Legend of the Toa of Light: an epic stanza in honor of Graalok, the first Toa of Light.

Jokes aside, even knowing and accepting he was the true Herald shouldn't make Takua immediately assume that he is supposed to be the actual Toa. Does the novelization mention his thoughts when he puts the mask on? Did he imagine that putting it on would shine the way, or did he then realize before he put it on that it would actually grant him a Toa's power?

I was always tickled by the idea of "what if Pewku were the Toa of Light?" Wanted to write a story about it but never did, and we're probably all better off as a result — I was never a good writer. It would have been cool but a bit random, and wouldn't really have made any narrative sense considering that Pewku didn't go on the same emotional journey.

I don't know if Takua knew exactly what would happen when he put on the mask, but I agree with Fishers64's theory. He understood at that point that the mask had chosen him for something, and that he was going to have to accept the mask as his responsibility if he was going to fulfill his own destiny and make Jaller's sacrifice worthwhile. Think about it this way: the mask had already demonstrated, by reacting to Takua's touch, that a part of his responsibility was to keep it close to him. Wearing it was the next logical step. He didn't have to know that it would actually transform him into the Toa of Light, but rather he concluded that it was what he needed to do next for the Toa of Light to be revealed.

As I commented elsewhere, Hahli posits the theory after-the-fact that Jaller was Takanuva's herald, and I'm inclined to believe it. After all, the REAL reason the mask responded to Takua was that he was destined to be the Toa of Light. It was only the Toa and Turaga who thought the mask's reaction had anything to do with the herald's identity — it was not mentioned explicitly in the prophecy. So in a roundabout way, the correct decision was made by sending Jaller on the quest. Without Jaller's companionship, would Takua have really accepted his responsibility to the mask? I'd imagine not, with Makuta actively working to prevent it and Takua's own reservations about responsibilities being forced upon him by outside forces. He might have tried to hide the mask, or to pass it off to someone else he met on his journey. He seemed to have the wherewithal not to surrender it to Makuta, but he wasn't comfortable with the idea of carrying it himself either.

And getting back on-topic, I think that my first paragraph sums up what Takua and Jaller's quest was supposed to be — an emotional journey. The physical journey they took was more or less irrelevant. The only part of it that seems like it might have been determined for sure was that Kini-Nui was the destination. I think that the illogical and roundabout way that Takua and Jaller got there was the reason for Takua's disbelief when it finally led them there. He still thought the mask was trying to lead them to a physical location that the Toa of Light would be found, so when it turned out to be a location that they could have gotten to much more easily, he was convinced the mask was broken. It turns out, though, that the journey was every bit as important as the destination. Takua and Jaller were meant to arrive at Kini-Nui, but not until they had traveled enough to learn the things they needed to know about themselves and each other. The physical path they took to Kini-Nui was not as important as the emotional journey that brought them there.

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#15 Online Sir Kohran

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Posted Jan 10 2014 - 07:51 PM

Why did putting on the mask turn Takua into a Toa? And would the same have happened had it been Jaller or any other Matoran?


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#16 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Jan 10 2014 - 08:08 PM

Why did putting on the mask turn Takua into a Toa? And would the same have happened had it been Jaller or any other Matoran?

I believe some media suggested it may have been infused with Toa power in the past, just like the Toa Stones given to the Toa Metru, though nothing ever stated that for certain. And no, it would not have done the same for any other Matoran. The transformation of a Matoran into a Toa or a Toa into a Turaga has a lot to do with destiny. Jaller and Hahli were destined to become Toa, but not at that time or in that manner.

Also, the purpose of the Mask of Light was to bring a Toa of Light into being. It's possible that to prevent that effort from going to waste, the mask was somehow keyed only to release that Toa power to an Av-Matoran. In which case Takua is the only Matoran on the island of Mata Nui who it would have bestowed its power to.

In any case, it's abundantly clear that the mask chose Takua, not any other Matoran. There was something special Takua had that the mask reacted to, something that none of the other Matoran, Toa, or Turaga had. I believe that something was not just his element but also his destiny of becoming a Toa of Light.

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#17 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jan 10 2014 - 08:23 PM

Does the novelization mention his thoughts when he puts the mask on? Did he imagine that putting it on would shine the way, or did he then realize before he put it on that it would actually grant him a Toa's power?

Sadly no. It mentions Takua being transfixed and staring off into space, but no thoughts. 
 
However, after he puts on the mask, there is this line:
 

He was the Seventh Toa!

 
This seems to indicate a realization. :shrugs:

 

Also, agree with Aanchir on the above. 


Edited by fishers64, Jan 10 2014 - 08:24 PM.

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#18 Offline ElevenGuy

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Posted Jan 10 2014 - 11:25 PM

It's not the destination that's important, but the journey. That's what the mask was doing, leading Takua on a path to discover his true self. He had lessons to learn before becoming a Toa who would single-handedly need to defeat Makuta.

 

Now I understand. I believe that I may have overlooked the most important line from the movie!

 

Vakama: "The path you walked was not meant to be here, but in here! (points to heartlight)"


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#19 Online Yukiko

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Posted Jan 11 2014 - 09:55 AM

 

I also think that Takua's putting on the mask was a dumb-luck theory test. He assumes that the mask chooses him, and what else do you do with a mask but wear it? Thus he assumes that he's supposed to wear it.

Would have been a funny moment if he turned out to be entirely wrong, and that the 7th Toa was some other guy. Or a girl. Maybe Graalok was the poor Toa, mutated years before in an attempt to thwart the legend of Makuta's defeat, and Takua only took its place by chance. It seems weird to name a character that does not actually do anything special, right? :P Let us craft an addendum to the Legend of the Toa of Light: an epic stanza in honor of Graalok, the first Toa of Light.

Jokes aside, even knowing and accepting he was the true Herald shouldn't make Takua immediately assume that he is supposed to be the actual Toa. Does the novelization mention his thoughts when he puts the mask on? Did he imagine that putting it on would shine the way, or did he then realize before he put it on that it would actually grant him a Toa's power?

 

 

Well there was Jaller's whole "you know who you are.  You were always different."  I'm pretty sure that was the clincher there.


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#20 Offline Katuko

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Posted Jan 11 2014 - 10:17 AM

Well there was Jaller's whole "you know who you are.  You were always different."  I'm pretty sure that was the clincher there.

True, Jaller says that immediately before he dies, and Takua looks at the mask with a kind of dawning understanding after he does.

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#21 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jan 11 2014 - 11:23 AM

I believe some media suggested it may have been infused with Toa power in the past, just like the Toa Stones given to the Toa Metru, though nothing ever stated that for certain.

Greg stated it for certain. I'm a little surprised the question is even being asked; thought it was common knowledge. :P

 

If Kohran means, if any other destined-to-be-Toa Matoran put it on and thought "I'm ready for whatever happens next", would they become, for example, a Toa of Fire? In other words, did the mask have the ability to make sure its stored Toa Energy was used ONLY for making a Toa of Light? If that's the question then we probably don't know. But destiny made sure it wasn't wasted on a Toa of Fire or the like. In other words, we can be pretty sure that it didn't happen that way because of destiny, but it may be that destiny had to make sure such a Matoran didn't put it on like that to prevent it; that once they did, they might actually have transformed, so you could have Toa Jaller with a Mask of Light. (And there might be close alternate dimensions where that happened.)

 

It's possible that to prevent that effort from going to waste, the mask was somehow keyed only to release that Toa power to an Av-Matoran.

I would tend to lean against this, but then again we don't know the limits of what Artakha can do. Especially if it was made directly by the Mask of Creation. :shrugs:

 

There was something special Takua had that the mask reacted to, something that none of the other Matoran, Toa, or Turaga had. I believe that something was not just his element but also his destiny of becoming a Toa of Light.

Is there any actual evidence for that? At least once it gets on the island of Mata Nui, being an Av-Matoran would be sufficient. I suppose before that it might have been a problem since other Av-Matoran were hidden in various places, but destiny could just make sure none of them happened to ever touch it. It didn't spend a lot of time in Matoran's hands.

 

To other posts, yes, we established pretty strongly in a past topic that there are two things needed to become a Toa -- be destined, and be mentally ready to take on responsibility. Technically Takua should have been able to transform just while holding it in his hands, but putting it on his face physically symbolized the psychological choice to be ready. Of course, it's possible also that Artakha made it to only trigger once a mind was connected to the mask. :shrugs: But either way, this being ready is a necessary step and also explains why Vakama and company didn't become Toa immediately on touching their Toa Stones, and why Takua didn't when he was in contact with Toa Energy from the stones the Toa Metru hid (although the latter example might also be that there wasn't enough energy left). It may also explain why we didn't get Toa Jaller with Mask of Light in MOL. :P


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#22 Offline SarracenianKaijin

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Posted Jan 11 2014 - 07:48 PM

Maybe that's what you get when your road guide is a mask that glows vaguely at the front.


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#23 Offline ShadowWolfHount

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Posted Jan 15 2014 - 02:08 AM

Maybe that's what you get when your road guide is a mask that glows vaguely at the front.

and don't forget that the back of the mask said Technic ,Organic ,Apps ,One Destiny.

So in a nutshell, the Mask of Light is a troll.


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#24 Offline Collector1

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Posted Jan 21 2014 - 08:53 PM

 

 

Why did the Mask of Light lead them in such a confusing manner? Coudn't they just have sklpped Ko-Koro and Onu-Koro?

 

Link:

http://www.majhost.c...y.cgi?i=3804207

It's most likely an oversight on the writer's part. Though it could be to confuse beings with evil intentions for the mask so that they can stray from the path.


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#25 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jan 22 2014 - 01:28 AM

Why did the Mask of Light lead them in such a confusing manner? Coudn't they just have sklpped Ko-Koro and Onu-Koro?

 

Link:

http://www.majhost.c...y.cgi?i=3804207

It's most likely an oversight on the writer's part. Though it could be to confuse beings with evil intentions for the mask so that they can stray from the path.

Since you re-quoted that link, I just noticed part of what probably confused EG; the placement of Kini-Nui. Actually, though it's a little-known fact, the MNOG version, shown by Nuju when he asks you where you will lead the Chronicler's Company, has it on the total opposite side of the Mangai, east of the mountains, closer to Ga-Koro and Onu-Koro. I have traditionally used the MNOG version because it fits most of the plot much better (such as why you would start from Ga-Koro to get there, not Le, and why you can't see it from the end of the Le-tunnel). The MOL makers might have been working from that as well.

 

You can see that here, in an image I've prepared for my retelling (only thing I changed was the size and placement of the compass rose, which came from the flute-summoned bird version of the map, which lacks Kini-Nui, but the map itself here is Nuju's):

 

http://www.brickshel...ompass_rose.png

 

To your post, I doubt it's an oversight. Again, the mask wasn't leading them at all. They simply did not know where to go, and went in the general direction the light happened to point. A chaotic path is thus to be expected. But by the MNOG map, it actually looks fairly logical; they are spiraling around Kini-Nui, eventually zeroing in on it. (If anything, the maps showing Kini-Nui being near Le-Koro are probably the oversight.)


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